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Hall of Merit: The Greatest Player Ever?

From Ron Wargo, post #41 on the 1934 Ballot Discussion thread:

“Maybe this deserves its own thread.

Yeah, I think so.

It’s 1934, a perfect time to ask:

Who is the greatest player ever?

I begrudgingly say the greatest eligible is Ty Cobb. Many people will say Honus Wagner. Some might even say Walter Johnson. Any other candidates?

Of course, it being January 1934, I think one more player (although still active) had a good enough 1933 to top the career WS and WARP lists, and he likely has the best peak ever, so my vote goes for greatest player as of January ‘34 goes to:

Babe Ruth.”

Thanks for the idea Ron!

Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: August 31, 2004 at 03:56 AM | 63 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: The Baseball Hall of Merit: Important Links

IMPORTANT: If a link is inoperable, please use this link to locate the thread in question: Hall of Merit Archives
This eventually will be the only place to locate old and new threads once we set up the categorization process.

Finally, a consolidated home page, with all of our important links.

The Hall of Merit Plaque Room - Where we honor the greatest players of all-time.

Our Constitution - The rules we’ve set up. Something Better - the article that introduced all of this.

Positional ...

Read More...
Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: August 30, 2004 at 09:33 AM | 22 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: 1934 Ballot Discussion

Here we go. The grand pooh-bah, so to speak . . .

1934 (September 12)—elect 2
WS W3 Rookie Name-Pos (Died)
722 206.3 1905 Ty Cobb-CF (1961)
630 188.6 1908 Tris Speaker-CF (1958)
574 182.8 1908 Eddie Collins-2B (1951)
245 80.8 1916 Stan Coveleski-P (1984)
195 64.0 1913 Joe Bush-P (1974)
203 48.1 1915 Wally Pipp-1B (1965)
170 45.7 1913 Bill Doak-P (1954)
133 43.0 1920 Bucky Harris-2B (1977)
152 48.5 1912 Steve O’Neill-C (1962)
157 39.1 1913 Les Mann-LF/CF (1962)
130 32.5 1917 Joe Harris-1B (1959)
093 36.2 1920 Slim Harriss-P (1963)
102 22.5 1917 Vic Aldridge-P (1973)
110 23.4 1917 Jimmy Ring-P (1965)
Negro Lg 1905 Pop Lloyd-SS (1964)
Negro Lg 1910 Smokey Joe Williams-P (1946)
Negro Lg 1913 Cristobal Torriente-RF (1938)
Negro Lg 1910 Ben Taylor-1B (1953)

Pretty amazing class, 5 easy HoMers, 2 more very strong candidates and a tweener. Discuss.

Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: August 30, 2004 at 09:22 AM | 194 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: 1933 Ballot

Will it be Zack Wheat, Heinie Groh, George Van Haltren, Clark Griffith, Lip Pike or Jake Beckley joining Walter Johnson at the ceremony this year?

Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: August 23, 2004 at 09:38 AM | 176 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: 1932 Results - Two Negro Leaguers Elected for the First Time

For the first time in the history of the Hall of Merit two Negro League players have been elected in the same year.

Louis Santop was an overwhelming choice for the top spot, garnering 36 of 51 first place votes in his first year of eligibility.

Rube Foster was also elected, outpointing George Van Haltren, 595-533. Actually, spots 2-7 remained unchanged from 1931, with Clark Griffith, Lip Pike, Jake Beckley and Hughie Jennings finishing 4-7.

Rube Waddell jumped from 12th to 8th, Hugh Duffy and Roger Bresnahan rounded out the top 10.

RK   LY  Player             PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 1  n/e  Louis Santop      1126   49  36  7  3  1     2                            
 2    2  Rube Foster        595   40   2  4  5  3  7  2  2  3  2  1  3     1  2  3 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 3    3  George Van Haltren 533   35   2  5  5  1  3  4  2  1  2     5  2  1  2    
 4    4  Clark Griffith     529   41      2  6  3  2  1  1  7  3  4  2  1  3  3  3 
 5    5  Lip Pike           507   32      8  4  3  1  4  3  1  1  1  1  2        3 
 6    6  Jake Beckley       498   32   1  6  5  1  2  3  2  3  3  1  1  1     1  2 
 7    7  Hughie Jennings    458   32   3  1  2  2  2  3  3  6  2  2  2  2        2 
 8   12  Rube Waddell       438   31   1     3  6  2  3  4  1  2  4  2  1  1  1    
 9   11  Hugh Duffy         398   30      3     2  5  1  2  2  5  2  1  2  1  4    
10    9  Roger Bresnahan    392   32   1     1  1  2  3  3  2  4  7  2     2  3  1 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
11   13  Mickey Welch       380   24   4  4     5  1     2        1  1     2  2  2 
12    8  Cupid Childs       376   32      2  1  1  1  3  4  3  3     1     4  7  2 
13   10  Jimmy Ryan         348   23      2  3  3  3  2  3  2  1     3  1          
14   14  Pete Browning      347   24      2  5  3  3           3  4     1  2  1    
15   15  Tommy Leach        305   25      1  1  2  2  2  1  3  1  2  1  2  4  3    
16  n/e  Jose Mendez        271   24            1  1  1  2     8  2  2  3  2  2    
17   16  Bill Monroe        249   23         1     2  2  1     2  1  4  5  2  1  2 
18   20  Charley Jones      234   18      2     2  1  1  2  1  1  1  2  2  1  1  1 
19   17  Spotswood Poles    221   23         1           3  3  1     1  4  1  2  7 
20   18  Larry Doyle        199   16      1  2  1     1     1     2  5  1     2    
21   21  Bobby Veach        189   18               2  2     1  1  3  2  2     1  4 
22   19  Harry Hooper       183   15         1  1  2  2  1  1  1  1        2  2  1 
23   22  Frank Chance       137   13            1     1     3     2     1  2  1  2 
24   24  George J. Burns    133   13            1        1  1  1  1  2  2  2     2 
25   28  John McGraw        127   10   1        2     1  1              1  3  1    
26   27  Addie Joss         116    9            1  1  1  2     1  2              1 
27   26  Ed Williamson      112   10                  1  2  1     1  1  3  1       
28   25  Gavy Cravath       109   10               1  2  1  1           1  1  1  2 
29   23  Ed Cicotte         107    9         1  1  1  1           1  1     1     2 
30  n/e  Dobie Moore         93    9            1              2  1  2  1        2 
31   30  Vic Willis          90    9                  2     1           1  3  2    
32   29  Fielder Jones       85    6      1     1           1     2  1             
33   32  Lave Cross          46    4         1                       2     1       
34   35  Tommy Bond          45    4            1              1        1     1    
35   40  Mike Griffin        41    4               1                 1  1        1 
36   31  Ed Konetchy         36    3                     1  1           1          
37  n/e  Wilbur Cooper       35    4               1                          1  2 
38   33  Jim McCormick       29    3                     1                 1  1    
39   36  Mike Tiernan        25    3                              1        1     1 
40   44  Fred Dunlap         22    2                        1           1          
41   37  Del Pratt           20    2                              1     1          
42   34  Herman Long         17    2                                    1  1       
43T  46  Joe Tinker          16    2                                       2       
43T n/e  Ross Youngs         16    2                                    1     1    
45T  41T Silver King         16    1               1                               
45T  45  Tom York            16    1               1                               
47T  38  Tony Mullane        15    2                                    1        1 
47T  39  Bruce Petway        15    2                                       1  1    
49   41T Donie Bush          14    1                     1                         
50   --  Sam Leever           9    1                                    1          
51T  47T Jake Daubert         8    1                                       1       
51T  47T Bobby Mathews        8    1                                       1       
53   --  Cy Seymour           7    1                                          1    
54T  --  Duke Farrell         6    1                                             1 
54T  52T Jim Whitney          6    1                                             1 
Dropped Out: John Donaldson (43), Billy Nash (47T), Roy Thomas (47T), 
Levi Meyerle (51), Johnny Evers (52T), Jimmy Williams (52T), Harry Wright (52T).
Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: August 18, 2004 at 04:42 AM | 28 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: Ben Taylor

The best Negro League first baseman before Buck Leonard. How does he compare with his white contemporaries?

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 17, 2004 at 09:35 PM | 87 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: Jules Thomas

You say you want another Deadball centerfielder to analyze? You got it!

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 17, 2004 at 09:27 PM | 18 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: John Henry Lloyd

Was he the “black Honus Wagner” or was Wagner the “white Pop Lloyd?”

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 17, 2004 at 09:22 PM | 104 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: Cristóbal Torriente

Rube Foster’s “big gun” for the Chicago American Giants is another centerfielder to compare with Cobb,  Speaker, Roush and Carey.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 17, 2004 at 09:17 PM | 86 comment(s)
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Hall of Merit: Smokey Joe Williams

Who was better during the Deadball Era: Johnson, Alexander or Williams?

That’s how good Smokey Joe was that he doesn’t look foolish being in that question.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 17, 2004 at 09:08 PM | 37 comment(s)
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