Hall of Merit: 1921 Ballot Discussion

We’ll place the new Negro League eligibility rules into effect this year (see the thread). Newcomers:

***1921 (March 7)?elect 2
WS W3 Rookie Name-Pos (Died)
328 74.8 1899 Tommy Leach-CF/3b (1969)
258 65.6 1902 Joe Tinker-SS (1948)
255 56.4 1902 George Mullin-P (1944)
231 53.7 1901 Roger Bresnahan-C (1944)
163 39.1 1904 Hooks Wiltse-P (1959)
151 37.8 1904 Frank Smith-P (1952)
149 34.8 1904 Jim Delahanty-2b (1953)
138 34.1 1906 Frank LaPorte-2b (1939)
140 31.7 1906 Red Murray-RF (1958)
138 30.3 1905 Al Bridwell-SS (1969)
125 33.9 1910 Russ Ford-P (1960)
118 31.0 1902 Germany Schaefer-2b (1919)
126 25.1 1909 Steve Evans-RF (1943)
111 25.4 1904 George Stovall-1b (1951)
NEGRO LEAGUES Home Run Johnson

I see it as 3 borderline players (Leach, Tinker and Bresnahan) and one solid Negro League candidate. The job gets a little tougher this year . . .

Hall of Merit: 1920 Ballot

Only one gets in this year. Jimmy Collins, Charlie Bennett and Joe McGinnity are the top returning candidates, and they get a strong challenge from newcomers Bobby Wallace and Ed Walsh, as well as Negro Leaguer Bill Monroe.

Hall of Merit: Should we change eligibility for Negro Leaguers?

This comment from OCF inspired this thread:

“Too late now, but this is another case in which in might have been nice, when this project was set up in the first place, to have eligibility keyed to a certain fixed age (like 45) rather than five years after retirement. We are right now discussing outfielders of the aughts. We’ve elected Flick, we’re debating Sheckard, and Magee will be on the ballot soon. Hill’s career started in the same year as Crawford, and Crawford will be eligible before Hill is. These are Hill’s contemporaries.”

I don’t think it’s too late OCF. I think Negro Leaguers should be eligible either 5 years after they retire, or the election that would be for their age 45 season, whichever comes first.

Partially because the top-to-bottom quality of the Negro Leagues was not quite at major league level (though the stars were surely as great as their white counterparts), many Negro Leaguers played well into their 40s.

I think this is a very reasonable ‘tweak’ to the system. Thoughts?

Hall of Merit: 1919 Results - Keeler & Kelley gain immortality

A couple of old Baltimore Orioles, Wee Willie Keeler and Joe Kelley have been elected to the Hall of Merit. Keeler made it in his fourth year of eligiblity and Kelley was on the ballot 6 years.

First year eligible Jimmy Sheckard (the only new player to receive a vote) moved in at #6, between holdovers Joe McGinnity and Bob Caruthers. Other than that, the pecking order remained largely unchanged.

In 1920 Jimmy Collins will be the top returning candidate, followed by Charlie Bennett and McGinnity.

Bob Caruthers finished 7th. Frank Grant moved past Sam Thompson into 8th place. Rube Waddell finished 10th.

Rk   LY  Player             Pts Bal    1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
 1    2  Willie Keeler      827  45   11  7  6  4  4  5  1  2  1  1  1     1     1
 2    3  Joe Kelley         768  45    7  7  4  6  3  3  2  1  4  3  5
 3    4  Jimmy Collins      718  44    4  9  4  3  4  2  2  3  3  2  4  2  1  1
 4    5  Charlie Bennett    638  36   11  2  5  3  2  2  5  1  1        1  1  1  1
 5    6  Joe McGinnity      616  43    2  4  4  4  6  2  2  2  2  4  2  2  3  2  2
 6  n/e  Jimmy Sheckard     501  39       2     3  6  5  3  3  2  3  3  2  2  1  4
 7    7  Bob Caruthers      495  35    4  3  4  2  3  1     1  1  2  3  2  6     3
 8    9  Frank Grant        476  36       1  5  3  4  3  1  6  1  1  1  2  5  2  1
 9    8  Sam Thompson       460  33    2  3  4     2  4  1  3  2  3     4  1  1  3
10   10  Rube Waddell       389  32    1     1  3  4  1  2  3  4     3  1  4  1  4
11   11  Lip Pike           331  24    1  3  3  2        3     2     3  3     3  1
12   12  Hughie Jennings    326  23    1  2  4     2     3  3  1  1  1  2     2  1
13   13  George Van Haltren 315  28             2  1  3  4  1  2  1  2  5  4  1  2
14   14  Jimmy Ryan         288  25             1  1  2  1  4  2  5  3  3  2  1
15   15  Jake Beckley       284  24          1     2  2  1  3  2  6  4     1  1  1
16   16  Dickey Pearce      274  20    2     1  3     2  1  1  1  3  3  1  2
17   18  Clark Griffith     266  28                      3  2  1  4  4  3  2  5  4
18   17  Hugh Duffy         257  21             4     4  3     1     3  2     3  1
19   19  Pete Browning      170  13       1     1  1  1  1  1  3  1  1  1        1
20   20  Cupid Childs       146  15       1                    2  3        4  4  1
21   23  Frank Chance       102   9             1        1  2     2     1  1     1
22   21  Addie Joss         101   8                   1  2  2  1  1     1
23   24  Mickey Welch        99   7       2           1     1  1              1  1
24   22  Vic Willis          89  10                   1        2        1  1  3  2
25   26  Jim McCormick       67   8                      1     1              5  1
26   25  Sol White           61   6             1        1              2        2
27   29  Charley Jones       58   5                   2        1           2
28   34  Ed Williamson       54   7                         1           1     2  3
29   27  John McGraw         47   3    1           1                          1
30   31  Harry Wright        44   3             1        1  1
31   30  Lave Cross*         33   4                               1     1     1  1
32   32  Fielder Jones       33   4                                     2  1  1
33   28  Herman Long         28   3                            1           2
34   33  Mike Tiernan        25   3                            1              1  1
35   38T Tom York            24   2          1                                   1
36   41T Roy Thomas          23   3                                  1        1  1
37   35  Tony Mullane        22   2                1                             1
38T  38T Jim Whitney         14   1                      1
38T  37  Denny Lyons         14   1                      1
40   40  Levi Meyerle        12   1                            1
41T  41T Jimmy Williams       9   1                                     1
41T  43T Deacon Phillipe      9   1                                     1
43   43T Cy Seymour           8   1                                        1
44T  --  Fred Dunlap          7   1                                           1
44T  45  Harry Davis          7   1                                           1
46   46T Silver King          6   1                                              1
*won tie-breaker 4-3 on individual ballots.
Dropped Out: Tip O'Neill (36), Sam Leever (46T), Jack Powell (46T).

Hall of Merit: Personal Hall of Merit

Awhile back I suggested that everyone keep track of their personal Hall of Merit. I keep seeing more and more references to the PHoM, which is great! So let’s provide a space for anyone who wants to post their Personal Hall of Merit. I’ll get mine up sometime in the next couple of days . . .

Hall of Merit: 1920 Ballot Discussion

It’s time to start discussing the 1920 ballot . . . only one gets in this year . . .

BILL MONROE (NEGRO LEAGUES)
JOHNNY BATES
JOE BIRMINGHAM
HOWIE CAMNITZ
ART FROMME
MIKE MITCHELL
EARL MOORE
DANNY MURPHY
CHARLIE SMITH
BILL SWEENEY
BOBBY WALLACE (tough call, but I think it is fair to make him eligible now, he was 40 in 1914)
ED WALSH

Hall of Merit: 1919 Ballot

Sorry it’s late (and sorry for that pattern) - I was out of town and now that I’m on my new schedule, this is my first internet access. Should have set it up before I left . . . hopefully being one day short doesn’t hurt anything.

Hall of Merit: 1918 Results - Flick latest HoMer

In his 3rd year of eligibility, Elmer Flick has been elected to the Hall of Merit, outpointing Wee Willie Keeler, 747-711. Joe Kelley finished a close 3rd with 700 points. Kelley was ahead of Keeler in 1917.

Jimmy Collins moved past Charlie Bennett into 4th place. Bennett received 50% more first place votes than anyone on the ballot (12 - Keeler was second with 8), but he was left off 12 ballots entirely. Bennett finished 13 points behind Collins, who received just one first place vote. Collins had deeper support though, as he was only excluded from two ballots.

Joe McGinnity and Bob Caruthers finished 6th and 7th, their ‘pecking order’ was unchanged. Sam Thompson moved past Frank Grant and into 8th place, just five points behind Caruthers. Rube Waddell rounded out the top 10.

In other noteworthy developments, Lip Pike’s candidacy rallied - he was named on 5 more ballots and he gained 84 points in the standings. For every winner there’s a loser in the Hall of Merit balloting, and Hugh Duffy was Pike’s foil. Duffy dropped off 3 ballots entirely, despite no new eligibles coming in ahead of him this year. He should have gained 44 points just from ‘attrition’ and he lost 8 points. The 52 point swing dropped him from 11th among the returnees to 17th.

Cupid Childs also came back to life, he appeared on 14 ballots after appearing on just 7 in 1917, that moved him from 25th among the returnees to 20th.

The Hall of Merit will be electing 2 players in 1919, Keeler and Kelley are the front-runners, though Jimmy Sheckard should also be taken seriously. Kelley has finished as the first or second runner-up every year since he first became eligible in 1914. Keeler was third runner-up in 1916 and 1917, before moving past Kelley this year.

Rk   LY  Player             Pts Bal    1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
 1    3  Elmer Flick        747  44    6  7  6  5  5  7  1  3     2     1  1
 2    5  Willie Keeler      711  42    8  7  4  4  3  4  4  1  1  2  2     1  1
 3    4  Joe Kelley         700  43    7  5  5  5  6  2     1  2  4  3  2     1
 4    7  Jimmy Collins      614  43    1  6  6  4  3  1  4  1  6     3  4  3     1
 5    6  Charlie Bennett    601  33   12  3  2  4  2  2  2  3              2  1
 6    8  Joe McGinnity      534  38    2  3  4  2  6  2  3  2  1  3  2  3  3  1  1
 7    9  Bob Caruthers      417  31    3  3  1  2  3     1  1     2  5  2  4  2  1
 8   11  Sam Thompson       412  31    1  2  5  1  2  3  2  1  1  3  2  2  2  2  2
 9   10  Frank Grant        400  31       1  2  3  3  1  4  2  5  1  1  3  1     3
10   12  Rube Waddell       362  28    1     1  1  3  5  3  2  4  1  1  1  1  2  2
11   14  Lip Pike           324  24    1  3  2  3     1  2  1  2  2  1  2  1     3
12   16  Hughie Jennings    297  23    1     3  2     1  2  4  2  1  1  2  1  1  2
13   15  George Van Haltren 290  25             1  2  4  1  1  5     6     2     3
14   18  Jimmy Ryan         277  25          1     1  2  1  3     8  2  1  2  3  1
15   17  Jake Beckley       268  24          1     1  2  2     4  4  4  2     2  2
16   19  Dickey Pearce      247  19    1  1     2  1  2  2     2  2  2  1  1  1  1
17   13  Hugh Duffy         242  19          1  2  2  1  2  4        2  3  2
18   21  Clark Griffith     229  24                   1     4  2  2  3  2  3  2  5
19   20  Pete Browning      165  14       1  1  1        1  2  1     2  2  1  1  1
20   27  Cupid Childs       119  14                         1  1  2     1  2  5  2
21   22  Addie Joss         117  10                1     3  1  1  1     1     2
22   25  Vic Willis         111  14                      1     1        1  3  4  4
23   24  Frank Chance       102   9             2        1  1     2           1  2
24   23  Mickey Welch        80   6       2           1        1           1  1
25   26  Sol White           74   8             1           1           1  2  1  2
26   28  Jim McCormick       65   8                         1        1     1  4  1
27   29  John McGraw         50   4    1                    1                 1  1
28   32  Herman Long         48   5.5                          1     1  1  1     1.5
29   31  Charley Jones       44   4                      1        1  1  1
30   33  Lave Cross*         42   5                               1     1  1  2
31   30  Harry Wright        42   3                   1  1  1
32   38  Fielder Jones       25   3                                     2     1
33   36  Mike Tiernan        23   3                                     1     2
34   45T Ed Williamson*      19   2                               1        1
35   --  Tony Mullane        19   1.5              1                             0.5
36   39  Tip O'Neill         15   1                   1
37   37  Denny Lyons         14   1                      1
38T  35  Jim Whitney         13   1                         1
38T  40  Tom York            13   1                         1
40   41T Levi Meyerle        12   1                            1
41T  34  Roy Thomas           9   1                                     1
41T n/e  Jimmy Williams       9   1                                     1
43T  45T Cy Seymour           8   1                                        1
43T  48T Deacon Phillipe      8   1                                        1
45   41T Harry Davis          7   1                                           1
46T  --  Sam Leever           6   1                                              1
46T n/e  Jack Powell          6   1                                              1
46T  41T Silver King          6   1                                              1
*won tie-breaker
Dropped Out: Tommy Bond (44), Fred Dunlap (45T), Mike Griffin (48T), Topsy
Hartsel (48T).

Hall of Merit: 1919 Ballot Discussion

Sorry it’s late, but a 17-hour door-to-door first day is a reasonable excuse. In a nutshell - roads were brutal, and I have a 50-mile commute on backroads in ice, and that damn new email virus, argh! As brutal a first day as one could ask for.

New eligibles:

ART DEVLIN
JOHNNY KLING
JOHN KNIGHT
CHARLEY O’LEARY
JIMMY SHECKARD
JOHN TITUS
TOM HUGHES
JOE LAKE
LEFTY LEIFIELD
LEW RICHIE
DOC WHITE

Hopefully I get the results up tomorrow early afternoon (I’m working 3-11 tomorrow, 7-3 Wednesday), but if I don’t it’ll be dinner time Wednesday. That’s still faster than the Hall of Fame turns them around though!

Hall of Merit: Amendment to cover new voters and challenges to ballots

Thanks to John Murphy for taking the time to write this out!

I - Voting Requirements:

Before any prospective voter will be allowed the franchise, the following prerequisites must be met.

1) The prospective voter must submit to the Ballot Committee (see section II below) reasons for and against the top ten candidate returnees from the prior election. Saying there is no case against a candidate is reasonable sometimes, like in the case of Cy Young, for example. A one-line statement for each may be all that is needed, but it needs to reasoned and logical, as determined by the Ballot Committee.

2) The prospective voter must be familiar with sabermetrical analysis and be willing to use a form of it within their ranking system. Any sabermetrical method (including, but not limited to Win Shares, WARP, etc.) is welcome. Any variation on an established system or a totally new analytical system created by the prospective voter himself/herself are also welcome (provided they are mathematically sound). While we are not looking for 100% consensus, we are aiming our sights on voters who are knowledgeable and scientifically minded.

3) The Ballot Committee will review each prospective voter’s qualifications and their compliance with the voter requirements, and if the requirements are met, the voter will be granted a ballot.

II - Ballot Committee:

The five-person panel will review any ballot that is challenged by a member(s). It will also review any new applications from prospective voters. It will consist of four voters, plus the commissioner. If there are more than four candidates for the committee, an election will be held. Term of office will expire after six elections (three months).

If one of the voters challenges a ballot (and is then seconded by another voter), it goes before the committee to be reviewed. If the committee decides to kill it, the group as a whole can then veto the committee’s action with a supermajority (67%) vote.

Valid reasons for challenging a ballot include (but are not limited to):

*Incompetence (voting for Tom Brookens, for example)
*Failure to comply with the rules (not explaining why you voted for Brookens)

If a ballot is nullified due to incompetence, the voter will be on probation for two elections and will have to reapply for membership.

If a ballot is nullified due to not complying with certain rules (no explanations on the ballot, ineligible candidates on the ballot, etc.), the voter will be allowed to revise his/her ballot without any penalties, if compliance is met.

For new ballot applications, the Ballot Committee’s decision is final.

When a committee member’s term is up, he may run for re-election (or have his membership re-upped if no one challenges him). The first four members of the committee will receive terms of 3, 5, 7 and 9 elections, so that we’ll have one spot coming open every other election (once a month in real time), and so that we don’t have complete turnover at any point.

I think we’ve come to the point where we have to formalize the process somewhat. Like any ‘company’ when there’s only a few people you don’t need much documented, but as things grow, more things need to be formalized. We’ve only seen a few minor issues to date, but as always, we try to nip things in the bud before they become problematic.

As always, feel free to comment, or offer up a better mousetrap if you have one! But no mousetrap isn’t an option any longer.