Hall of Merit: URGENT PLEASE READ - Issues with Red Faber’s RSI record

Red Faber’s RSI record on Chris J.‘s website is incorrect.

http://runsupportindex.blogspot.com/2004/06/red-faber.html

The total is listed at 257-171, but when you add the numbers, it should be 255-212. Faber’s real record was 254-213, so the second record makes a bit more sense. If you used this data in your vote for Faber (I did), you probably need to modify your ballot.

I’m trying to think of a reasonable way to do this.

I would say, post the modified ballots here, and please give the post # of your ballot on the original thread.

I think we should leave the election open until Tuesday evening to allow everyone a chance to see this post and make any modifications.

If you voted for Faber without using Chris J.‘s RSI as an input, it’s probably a good idea to drop a quick post here saying your ballot is okay - it wouldn’t hurt anything.

With an election this tight, we don’t want to elect the wrong person based on faulty data. It’s better to take a day and get it right, as opposed to making a mistake we can’t correct . . .

Hall of Merit: Burleigh Grimes and Dolf Luque

Lot of quality there, but packaged in different ways.

Hall of Merit: Sam Rice

Steady, dependable outfielder for his time. Is that enough for the HoM?

Hall of Merit: John Beckwith

Another quality shortstop to muddy up the waters for us.

Hall of Merit: Bullet Rogan

How great of a pitcher was he really?

Hall of Merit: 1939 Ballot

Strong crop of newly eligible players this “year”, though no no-brainers, IMO. They include Rabbit Maranville, Red Faber, Eppa Rixey, Joe Sewell, Nip Winters, Heavy Johnson and Jack Quinn. Strong returnees from last “year” include Lip Pike, Max Carey, Hughie Jennings, Jake Beckley, Clark Griffith, George Sisler, Rube Waddell and Mickey Welch.

As far as I am concerned, it’s a wide open election. I have no clue who will be the two candidates.

Hall of Merit: 1938 Election Results: Immortality is Awarded to Groh and Coveleski Via the Hall of Merit!

In the election with the least consensus among the HoM voters ever (a record 63 candidates had their names on at least one ballot), Cincinnati’s finest third baseman Heinie Groh edged out his nearest opponent to win the first spot this “year” for induction in his sixth year of eligibility.

Not that far behind, Cleveland mound legend Stan Coveleski earned the second HoM spot in his fifth year of eligibility. Both players were far ahead of the other 61 candidates.

Among the top-ten also rans, Max Carey (who had the most #1 votes for this election), Lip Pike and Hughie Jennings appear to be the strongest candidates to take on the newbies of 1939.

Rounding out the top-ten returnees were Jake Beckley, Clark Griffith, George Sisler, Rube Waddell and Mickey Welch.

RK   LY  Player                   PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1    3  Heinie Groh              826   49   5 11  4  7  1  3  2  2  3  5  3  2  1      
 2    4  Stan Coveleski           794   49   5  7  8  4  5  3  2  2  3  1  1  3  4     1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3    5  Max Carey                547   35   9     2  2  2  3  1  4  3  2  2  2  2     1
 4    6  Lip Pike                 520   29   8  3     5  5  2     3           1  2      
 5    8  Hughie Jennings          490   30   7  2  4  3  3  1     1        3  3     2  1
 6    7  Jake Beckley             446   27   3  5  2  3  2  1     5  2  2        1     1
 7   11  Clark Griffith           429   34      2  4  2     4  2  3  2  3  2  1  4  2  3
 8   10  George Sisler            415   32   1  1  6  2  3  1  1  3     1  1  4  1  3  4
 9    9  Rube Waddell             405   31   1  1  1  2  2  4  3  4  5  1        3  1  3
10   12  Mickey Welch             384   22   6  4  1  1  1  1  1     3     1  1     1  1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11   15  Cupid Childs             374   29   1  1  4  2  1     3  1  4  1  1  3  5  2   
12   14  George Van Haltren       363   25   2  3  4  1  1  1  1  1  2  1  1  2  2  2  1
13   13  Pete Browning            361   23      6  3  2  1  2  1        3  1  2  1     1
14   16  Hugh Duffy               343   26   1  1  2  1  3  4  1  1  1  3  2     1  5   
15   18  Cannonball Dick Redding  313   26      1     1     1  4  3  2  5  7        2   
16   20  Tommy Leach              306   26               6  4  1  1  3  1  2  1  1  3  3
17   17  Edd Roush                303   25      1        1  2  6  3  3  2  1  2     1  3
18   19  Roger Bresnahan          266   23         2     2  1  3  2  2  1     6     2  2
19   21  José Méndez              258   23         2  1     1  1  2  2  4  2  4  1     3
20   22  Jimmy Ryan               209   18         1  2  1  1  2     2  2  1  1     3  2
21   24  Charley Jones            193   13   1  1  1     3     1  2  1  1     1  1      
22   25  Larry Doyle              190   13   2  1     1  1  2  1        2        1     2
23   23  Wally Schang             182   16   1           1  1  1  2  1     2  2  2  3   
24   27  Bill Monroe              168   16         1  1  1     1     2  1  2  1  1  1  4
25   26  Harry Hooper             144   12            3  1     2           1  1  3     1
26   29  Bobby Veach              136   13               1  1  1     1  1  3  1  1  3   
27   28  Carl Mays                109   11                     2           4  2  2  1   
28   30  John McGraw              101    8      1        1  1  1     1           1  1  1
29   33  George J. Burns           92    9               1     1  1     1  1     1  2  1
30   31  Ben Taylor                91    7            1  1  2  1                 1     1
31T  38  Ed Cicotte                78    8            1        1     1        1     2  2
31T  34  Vic Willis                78    8                  1        1  1  1  1  1  1  1
33   36  Urban Shocker             73    7                        2     2  1     1  1   
34   32  Addie Joss                72    6                     2  1     1  2            
35   39  Frank Chance              68    6      1                 2                 1  2
36   35  Fielder Jones             66    6               1  1           1     1  1  1   
37   37  Spotswood Poles           61    5            1     1     1              2      
38   41  Gavy Cravath              60    5            1     1     1              1  1   
39   40  Ed Williamson             50    5                  1           1     1  1  1   
40   44  Wilbur Cooper             43    4            1                    1  1     1   
41   42  Dave Bancroft             40    5                                 1  1  1  1  1
42   43  Ed Konetchy               33    3                           2        1         
43   45  Ray Schalk                26    2                  1           1               
44   47  Lave Cross                25    2         1                                1   
45   46  Dobie Moore               21    2                              1  1            
46T  49  Donie Bush                17    1            1                                 
46T  50  Fred Dunlap               17    1            1                                 
48   55T Del Pratt                 16    2                                 1           1
49   48  Tommy Bond                16    1               1                              
50T  57T Tony Mullane              14    2                                       1     1
50T  57T Mike Tiernan              14    2                                       1     1
52T  52T Jack Fournier             14    1                     1                        
52T  52T Sam Leever                14    1                     1                        
52T  51  Tom York                  14    1                     1                        
55   54  Jim McCormick             12    1                           1                  
56   55T Ross Youngs               11    1                              1               
57   57T Herman Long               10    1                                 1            
58T  57T Mike Griffin               7    1                                          1   
58T n/e  Oliver Marcelle            7    1                                          1   
60T n/e  Jake Daubert               6    1                                             1
60T  53T Bruce Petway               6    1                                             1
60T n/e  Eddie Rommel               6    1                                             1
60T n/e  Jim Whitney                6    1                                             1

Thanks to Evan Reich and Ron Wargo for double-checking the results!

Hall of Merit: 1939 Ballot Discussion

Some fine new candidates in a somewhat weak “year” will make it verrrrrryyy interesting for ‘39.

1939 (November 21)—elect 2
WS W3 Rookie Name-Pos (Died)
302 86.5 1913 Rabbit Maranville-SS (1954)
292 85.4 1914 Red Faber-P (1976)
315 78.5 1912 Eppa Rixey-P (1963)
277 87.8 1921 Joe Sewell-SS/3B (1990)
287 80.1 1909 Jack Quinn-P (1946)
141 36.3 1924 Ray Kremer-P (1965)
139 36.8 1924 Glenn Wright-SS (1984)
128 33.5 1924 Sam “Dolly” Gray-P (1953)
121 34.8 1924 Taylor Douthit-CF (1986)
110 29.2 1924 Harry Rice-CF/RF (1971)
104 26.4 1920 Bernie Friberg-3B/2B (1958)
090 27.3 1923 Sloppy Thurston-P (1973)
100 22.3 1922 Bob Fothergill-LF (1938)
099 21.4 1921 Lew Fonseca-1B/2B (1989)

1939 (November 21)—elect 2
HF% Career Name-pos (born) BJ – MVP - All-Star
20% 20-33 Nip Winters-P (1899) 5.5 - 6*
12% 22-33 Heavy Johnson-OF (1896) #8 lf - 0 - 4*
0% 19-33 Jelly Gardner-RF (1895) #8 rf - 0 - 1*
0% 20-33 Highpockets Hudspeth-1b (??) #7 1b - 0 - 0*

Players Passing Away in 1938

HoMers
Age Elected
43 1937 Cristobal Torriente-CF

Candidates
Age Eligible
82 1896 Guy Hecker-P/1B
72 1909 Tom Daly-2b
70 1903 Silver King-P
69 1907 Bill Everitt-1b/3b
65 1907 Pink Hawley-P
64 1913 Jack W. Taylor-P
60 1915 Hobe Ferris-2b
57 1917 Lee Tannehill-3B
40 1939 Bob Fothergill-LF

Thanks to Dan and Chris for the lists!

Hall of Merit: Heavy Johnson

He ain’t heavy, he’s my…oh wait, he was Heavy! :-)

Hall of Merit: Nip Winters

Here’s one guy that a vigorous discussion of his credentials is needed.