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Voting is now open for 1918, where we’ll be electing one candidate.
We had some issues last year, so just a reiteration of the rules . . .
Voters must explain their ballot, at a minimum a sentence or two about the people they are voting for, preferably more.
You also have to explain why you didn’t vote for the returning top 10, this year that is:
Elmer Flick, Joe Kelley, Willie Keeler, Charlie Bennett, Jimmy Collins, Joe McGinnity, Bob Caruthers and Frank Grant. I suppose Sam Thompson and Rube Waddell are in the top 10 returnees, as well, though they didn’t finish in the top 10 last year.
Likewise, I think we should add another minor requirement/suggestion (I hate being the cop), if you are voting for someone who didn’t finish in the top 20 last year, it’s probably a good idea to give an in-depth (more than one sentence probably - unless it’s a helluva sentence :-) reason as to why. Convince us as to why we’re missing the boat!
John Murphy has written up the suggested amendment for requirements of new voters and for challenging a ballot, I’ll post it later today.
Joe Dimino
Posted: January 19, 2004 at 04:34 PM |
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Hall of Merit: 1917 Results - Young and Clarke Elected
In a year where records fell, perhaps the biggest was that Cy Young became the first player to receive unanimous support as the top choice for the Hall of Merit. The election was a complete turn-around from 1916’s wide open affair as Young was named first on all 45 ballots.
Fred Clarke was also elected in his first year of eligibility, easily outpacing Elmer Flick, 920-643. 31 of 45 voters had Clarke as their second choice.
Flick easily jumped past Joe Kelley, who had been the top returning candidate, 643-586. Kelley missed election in 1916 by 2 points. This time, he just squeaked by Willie Keeler, who rounded out the top 5 with 582 points. Flick is now the front-runner for 1918, when only one candidate will be elected.
Jimmy Collins who finished 7th, is closing the gap on Charlie Bennett. Bennett beat Collins by 26 points in 1916, Collins closed the gap to 11 points this year.
Joe McGinnity, Bob Caruthers and Frank Grant rounded out the top 10. Grant actually tied with Sam Thompson for the 10 spot, and won the tie-breaker. Caruthers lost a little of the momentum he had been building, he was left off 18 ballots this year, he was only excluded from 13 in 1916.
A few other records fell this year. 45 people voted in the election, and 50 candidates received at least one vote.
RK LY Player Pts Ballots 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
1 n/e Cy Young 1080 45 45 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2 n/e Fred Clarke 920 45 0 31 4 2 2 1 2 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0
3 3 Elmer Flick 643 44 0 1 9 2 5 7 4 6 3 4 0 2 0 1 0
4 2 Joe Kelley 586 41 0 0 10 4 5 3 5 3 1 0 5 4 0 0 1
5 4 Willie Keeler 582 40 0 3 4 7 4 2 5 4 3 2 0 2 3 0 1
6 5 Charlie Bennett 496 32 0 3 7 5 4 2 1 3 3 1 0 0 2 0 1
7 6 Jimmy Collins 485 39 0 0 2 5 4 6 1 3 3 2 3 0 2 5 3
8 7 Joe McGinnity 398 32 0 1 0 6 1 2 6 1 2 1 2 2 3 3 2
9 8 Bob Caruthers 326 27 0 1 1 4 2 0 1 2 3 0 2 6 2 1 2
10 9 Frank Grant 322 29 0 0 0 2 2 2 3 2 2 3 2 3 1 4 3
11 10 Sam Thompson 322 23 0 2 1 2 4 3 1 3 1 0 1 2 1 2 0
12 12 Rube Waddell 293 25 0 0 0 1 2 4 2 3 1 3 2 1 1 5 0
13 13 Hugh Duffy 250 22 0 0 0 0 2 3 1 1 4 4 0 1 3 3 0
14 11 Lip Pike 240 19 0 0 3 2 1 2 1 1 0 3 1 1 1 1 2
15 15 George Van Haltren 232 21 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 3 1 2 5 3 3 0 0
16 18 Hughie Jennings 227 18 0 1 1 1 2 1 0 2 2 1 3 1 2 0 1
17 16 Jake Beckley 219 22 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 1 1 2 6 0 6 2 1
18 14 Jimmy Ryan 217 21 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2 3 5 2 3 3 1 1
19 17 Dicky Pearce 167 13 0 1 1 0 1 1 2 1 1 0 2 1 0 1 1
20 19 Pete Browning 161 15 0 0 1 1 0 2 0 0 2 2 0 1 2 1 3
21 20 Clark Griffith 123 13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 2 5 0 0 2
22 21 Addie Joss 116 10 0 0 0 1 0 1 2 1 0 0 2 0 2 1 0
23 25 Mickey Welch 85 8 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 2
24 n/e Frank Chance 77 7 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1
25 22 Vic Willis 59 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 2 2
26 n/e Sol White 59 6 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 1
27 23 Cupid Childs 56 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 3
28 24 Jim McCormick 48 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 3
29 29 John McGraw 41 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
30 28 Harry Wright 37 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
31 27 Charley Jones 36 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 0
32 31 Herman Long 26 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1
33 26 Lave Cross 23 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1
34 n/e Roy Thomas 22 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1
35 37T Jim Whitney 18 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
36 30 Mike Tiernan 15 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0
37 -- Denny Lyons 14 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
38 32 Fielder Jones 13 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
39 33 Tip O'Neill 13 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
40 40 Tom York 11 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
41T 41 Levi Meyerle 10 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
41T -- Silver King 10 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
41T n/e Harry Davis 10 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
44 37T Tommy Bond 8 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
45T 34 Ed Williamson 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
45T 37T Cy Seymour 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
45T -- Fred Dunlap 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
48T 36 Mike Griffin 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
48T 42 Deacon Philippe 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
48T n/e Topsy Hartsel 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Dropped Out: Tony Mullane (#35), Ginger Beaumont (#43).
Joe Dimino
Posted: January 13, 2004 at 10:48 PM |
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Sorry it’s late guys . . . the 1918 entry class is just a tad below the 1917 class . . .
1918:
NIXEY CALLAHAN
MIKE DONLIN
MATTY MCINTYRE
PAT MORAN
JAKE STAHL
BILLY SULLIVAN
BUSTER BROWN
CY MORGAN
BARNEY PELTY
JACK POWELL
Joe Dimino
Posted: January 13, 2004 at 02:05 PM |
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Quite a group of newcomers, led by Cy Young and Fred Clarke.
We’ll be electing 2 players this year.
1917 New Eligibles:
WS W3 Rookie Name-Pos (Died)
634 164.3 1890 Cy Young-P (1955)
400 105.1 1894 Fred Clarke-LF (1960)
260 80.5 1899 Roy Thomas-CF (1959)
249 69.6 1894 Fred Tenney-1b (1952)
223 51.1 1899 Topsy Hartsel-LF (1944)
238 46.7 1896 Harry Davis-1b (1947)
237 46.0 1898 Frank Chance-1b (1924)
208 46.6 1898 Harry Steinfeldt-3b (1914)
184 49.9 1899 Kid Elberfeld-SS (1944)
202 43.1 1898 Bill Donovan-P (1923)
153 38.3 1901 Wid Conroy-3b (1959)
187 23.4 1902 Patsy Dougherty-LF (1940)
146 27.7 1899 Charlie Hemphill-CF (1953)
099 32.8 1903 Lee Tannehill-3B (1938)
119 24.6 1903 Doc Gessler-RF (1924)
120 10.4 1901 Kitty Bransfield-1b (1947)
(Negro). 1887 Sol White-2b/3b (1955)
Joe Dimino
Posted: January 05, 2004 at 03:59 PM |
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Thanks to Patrick W for tallying this up!
Paul Molitor edges Ryne Sandberg, and Bert Blyleven finished third. I’ve been busy, so I didn’t follow the discussion, but how anyone could leave Sandberg, Blyleven or Trammell off their ballot is beyond me.
Rk Yr Player Pts Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
1 04 Paul Molitor 276 15 4 9 1 1
2 03 Ryne Sandberg 262 14 8 4 2
3 98 Bert Blyleven 202 14 2 2 7 1 1 1
4 04 Dennis Eckersley 171 15 1 1 5 3 1 3 1
5 02 Alan Trammell 144 13 1 4 4 3 1
6 -- No Vote 133 -- 1 5 6 7
7 00 Rich Gossage 127 12 2 5 4 1
8 02 Andre Dawson 56 6 1 3 1 1
9 96 Keith Hernandez 55 6 1 2 2 1
10 97 Dave Parker 47 6 3 1 2
11 95 Tommy John 43 6 2 1 3
12 04 Dave Steib 43 5 1 1 2 1
13 01 Don Mattingly 39 5 2 1 1 1
14 94 Bruce Sutter 38 4 1 1 2
15 99 Dale Murphy 35 5 5
16 00 Jack Morris 33 3 1 1 1
17 95 Jim Rice 21 2 1 1
Joe Dimino
Posted: December 31, 2003 at 01:53 PM |
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Favre’s post on Caruthers will be reprinted in the discussion.
Joe Dimino
Posted: December 24, 2003 at 03:21 PM |
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Hall of Merit: 1916 Results - Stovey elected in closest voting ever
In the closest balloting in the 19-year history of the Hall of Merit, Harry Stovey was elected, outpointing Joe Kelley 667-665. It was a wild election, 11 candidates received a first-place vote and no candidate was named on every ballot. 44 voters sent in ballots for the 2nd consecutive year. Stovey was in his 18th year of eligibility and will be 60 in December. He’s the 3rd oldest player selected to the Hall of Merit (Joe Start was almost 70 and Cal McVey was a month shy of his 64th birthday when inducted).
The previous closest election was Bid McPhee defeating McVey 751-747 in 1913 (McVey was elected a year later). The only other election decided by less than 10 points was in 1906, when Al Spalding defeated Ezra Sutton by 8.5 points. Sutton was elected in 1908.
Kelley nearly closed a 21-point gap from the 1915 election. Stovey’s two extra first place votes (9 vs. 7) sealed the deal for him, despite his being left off three ballots (Kelley was left off two ballots).
First-year eligible Elmer Flick was right on Stovey and Kelley’s heels, with 651 points. Another first-timer finished 4th, Wee Willie Keeler finished with 619 points.
Charlie Bennett moved from 6th to 5th, moving past Jimmy Collins.
There was a lot of movement this year Joe McGinnity moved up a spot into 7th (he and several others passed Sam Thompson, who dropped off 6 ballots entirely, and fell from 7th to 10th place).
Bob Caruthers vaulted from 14th to 8th place, being named on eight more ballots this year. Frank Grant moved from 10th to 9th (despite dropping from 356 to 352 points) and Thompson rounded out the top 10.
Lip Pike also made a run, moving past Hugh Duffy, Jimmy Ryan and George Van Haltren into 11th place.
Other first-year eligibles to receive votes include Rube Waddell (12th), Addie Joss (21st), Vic Willis (22nd), Cy Seymour (tied for 37th), Deacon Phillippe (42nd) and Ginger Beaumont (43rd).
Rk LY Player Pts Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
1 3 Harry Stovey 667 41 9 4 6 3 3 1 2 2 2 1 3 2 3
2 4 Joe Kelley 665 42 7 3 3 6 2 4 4 3 4 2 2 1 1
3 n/e Elmer Flick 651 40 4 5 4 4 9 3 2 3 1 3 1 1
4 n/e Willie Keeler 619 41 5 5 3 3 2 4 4 3 2 2 3 2 2 1
5 6 Charlie Bennett 586 33 9 8 2 3 1 1 3 2 1 3
6 5 Jimmy Collins 558 39 2 5 5 1 3 4 5 3 2 3 1 4 1
7 8 Joe McGinnity 444 32 1 2 4 4 6 3 2 3 2 3 2
8 14 Bob Caruthers 379 31 2 2 1 3 1 2 2 1 6 3 3 2 3
9 10 Frank Grant 352 29 1 3 4 3 2 3 2 2 2 4 2 1
10 7 Sam Thompson 345 24 1 2 4 4 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 2
11 13 Lip Pike 320 22 2 3 2 1 3 1 1 3 1 2 1 2
12 n/e Rube Waddell 311 23 1 1 2 3 1 2 3 2 3 1 2 1 1
13 9 Hugh Duffy 303 25 2 3 3 5 3 1 2 3 1 2
14 11 Jimmy Ryan 298 25 3 2 4 1 4 4 2 1 2 2
15 12 George Van Haltren 271 23 1 1 5 1 2 2 2 2 3 1 3
16 15 Jake Beckley 259 24 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 2 3 1 3
17 17 Dicky Pearce 244 18 2 1 2 3 2 3 1 4
18 16 Hughie Jennings 236 19 3 1 1 1 1 3 4 1 1 3
19 18 Pete Browning 200 17 1 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 3 1
20 19 Clark Griffith 164 17 1 1 2 2 2 4 1 3 1
21 n/e Addie Joss 112 10 2 2 1 1 1 3
22 n/e Vic Willis 101 13 1 1 3 3 5
23 21 Cupid Childs 94 10.5 1 1 1 2 2 3.5
24 20 Jim McCormick 86 9 1 1 1 1 1 4
25 22 Mickey Welch 69 6.5 1 1 1 2 1.5
26 28 Lave Cross 55 6 1 1 2 1 1
27 24 Charley Jones 45 5 1 2 1 1
28 30 Harry Wright 43 4 1 1 1 1
29 25 John MGraw 42 3.5 1 1 1 .5
30 23 Mike Tiernan 37 4.5 2 2 .5
31 32 Herman Long 29 3.5 1 1 1 .5
32 26 Fielder Jones 23 3 1 2
33 33 Tip O'Neill 21 2 1 1
34 27 Ed Williamson 17 2.5 1 1.5
35 29 Tony Mullane 16 2 1 1
36 31 Mike Griffin 15 2 1 1
37T n/e Cy Seymour 14 1 1
37T 34 Jim Whitney 14 1 1
37T 36 Tommy Bond 14 1 1
40 -- Tom York 13 1 1
41 37 Levi Meyerle 10 1 1
42 n/e Deacon Phillippe 8 1 1
43 n/e Ginger Beaumont 6 1 1
Dropped Out: Jack Chesbro (#35), Bobby Mathews (#38T), Jesse Tannehill (#38T),
Silver King (#40).
Since the last results were announced, two great HoMers of the early 70s have passed away, Ross Barnes, age 64 (February 1915) and Al Spalding age 65 (September 1915).
Joe Dimino
Posted: December 24, 2003 at 12:10 AM |
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I think a separate thread to discuss the likes of Addie Joss, Sandy Koufax and Dizzy Dean is appropriate.
These guys are in a family unto themselves. I suppose if Pedro Martinez were to retire tomorrow, he’d be in the group too, though he’s a notch above those three.
These guys were amazing pitchers, who for one reason or another only had 6-8 years of greatness.
Where should we rank them? I was surprised at how little support Joss received in his first go-round. I didn’t vote for him either, but I think I could easily be convinced to, I’m waiting for my revised Pennants Added numbers before I vote for Joss. Players like Hughie Jennings and Bob Caruthers received much more support, but I don’t see them as being any better than Joss. How can one justify keeping Joss of the ballot, but voting for Dean or Koufax? I’m not saying you can’t, but it’s not immediately obvious, and I have to think Koufax and probably Dean will do much better than Joss did.
You don’t rack up a 142 ERA+ (especially in a low ERA era, where it’s tougher to have an extreme ERA+) over 2300 IP without being a great pitcher. Sure he didn’t pitch an incredible amount of innings every year (in the context of his time), but neither does Pedro, and Koufax was only in the top 10 in the NL 4 times, though he did lead the league twice. Dean was a horse during his 6 year run.
I think these three pitchers are probably the most fascinating candidates we’ll see.
Joe Dimino
Posted: December 22, 2003 at 10:41 PM |
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Hall of Merit: 2004 Hall of Fame ballot discussion
Some of you asked for a thread to discuss the 2004 ballot for the Hall of Fame, while we’re on vacation. Here you go!
It was suggested to run a mock election using our system. If we do so, we shouldn’t just have players on the ballot as eligible. In keeping with our practice, we should consider ALL players not in the Hall of Fame today. Putting together a 15-player ballot with that system would be great.
To make sure no one is missed, we should nominate players for the ballot. I’d immediately nominate the HoMers that aren’t in the Hall of Fame: Ross Barnes, Bill Dahlen, Jack Glasscock, George Gore, Paul Hines, Cal McVey, Hardy Richardson, Joe Start, Ezra Sutton and Deacon White.
I’d also nominate players that have been erased from BBWAA eligibility guys like Bobby Grich, Craig Nettles, Lou Whitaker, Joe Torre, Bill Freehan, Ron Santo and Ron Guidry, to name a few. A composite ballot of these players, and others that I’m not remembering off the top of my head would be fascinating.
Joe Dimino
Posted: December 22, 2003 at 10:15 PM |
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Cy Young and Fred Clarke head the new eligibles.
This election won’t start until January 5, so take your time discussing.
Let me know if you’d like to open any other threads for discussion over the holidays, and a Happy Holidays to all of you too!
Joe Dimino
Posted: December 22, 2003 at 09:41 PM |
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