BBTF's Dialed In Discussion :: Defensive Rankings by Position- NL

Tuesday, August 29, 2006

Defensive Rankings by Position- NL - Aug 27

NL Defense through August 27

The following data represent the defensive rankings for the American League players by position, with a minimum of 500 innings played. RSpt is Runs Saved for the playing time of the player above average for that much playing time. RS/150 is how many runs that would be in 150 games played. This is explained in the methodology here.

Catcher

Pos	NAME	LAST	TEAM	GP	INN	RSpt	RS/150
2	Yadier	Molina,	StL	98	831.7	5	8
2	Miguel	Olivo,	Fla	97	752.0	5	8
2	Yorvit	Torrealba,	Col	57	480.3	4	10
2	Ronny	Paulino,	Pit	101	841.0	3	5
2	Johnny	Estrada,	Ari	94	799.3	3	5
2	Jason	LaRue,	Cin	54	450.3	3	8
2	Damian	Miller,	Mil	87	748.3	2	4
2	David	Ross,	Cin	55	455.3	2	6
2	Brian	Schneider,	Was	98	798.3	1	2
2	Russell	Martin,	LA	87	760.3	1	2
2	Eliezer	Alfonzo,	SF	60	509.0	0	1
2	Brad	Ausmus,	Hou	109	893.0	-1	-1
2	Brian	McCann,	Atl	93	767.0	-1	-2
2	Paul	LoDuca	NYM	94	826.3	-4	-7
2	Michael	Barrett,	ChC	96	803.3	-7	-11
2	Mike	Piazza,	SD	77	560.0	-11	-28

Piazza still struggles behind the plate. Those bottom three really drag down the average.

First Base

Pos	NAME	Last	Team	GP	INN	RSpt	RS/150
3	Scott	Hatteberg	Cin	107	901.3	6	8
3	Nomar	Garciaparra	LA	94	823.3	3	5
3	Carlos	Delgado	NYM	115	1026.7	3	4
3	Adrian	Gonzalez	SD	124	1076	2	3
3	Adam	LaRoche	Atl	114	912	1	2
3	Conor	Jackson	Ari	99	834.7	1	1
3	Albert	Pujols	StL	110	962.7	1	1
3	Lance	Berkman	Hou	80	648.3	1	2
3	Todd	Helton	Col	113	997	0	0
3	Mike	Jacobs	Fla	103	810.3	-1	-1
3	Ryan	Howard	Phi	126	1117	-1	-1
3	Nick	Johnson	Was	123	1049.3	-1	-2
3	Prince	Fielder	Mil	122	1065.7	-9	-11

Hatteberg can pick it? MONEYBALL!

Second Base

Pos	NAME	Last	Team	GP	INN	RSpt	RS/150
4	Jose	Valentin	NYM	67	559.7	9	21
4	Jamey	Carroll	Col	95	784.3	7	12
4	Craig	Biggio	Hou	104	852.3	6	9
4	Aaron	Miles	StL	86	642.7	1	3
4	Chase	Utley	Phi	123	1073.3	1	2
4	Josh	Barfield	SD	120	1051.3	0	0
4	Orlando	Hudson	Ari	127	1097.7	-2	-2
4	Dan	Uggla	Fla	117	1007.0	-2	-2
4	Brandon	Phillips	Cin	117	1001.7	-3	-4
4	Ray	Durham	SF	105	910.7	-3	-5
4	Jeff	Kent	LA	82	679.7	-5	-9
4	Jose	Vidro	Was	91	764.7	-5	-9
4	Marcus	Giles	Atl	108	934.7	-5	-8
4	Rickie	Weeks	Mil	92	794.0	-8	-13
4	Jose	Castillo	Pit	118	1019.7	-15	-20

Jose Valentin is having a great year. First Fielder, and now Weeks; that’s gotta frustrate.

Third Base

Pos	NAME	Last	Team	GP	INN	RSpt	RS/150
5	Corey	Koskie	Mil	70	603.3	8	18
5	Pedro	Feliz	SF	128	1115.7	7	9
5	Scott	Rolen	StL	113	978.0	6	9
5	Freddy	Sanchez	Pit	82	690.7	5	10
5	Morgan	Ensberg	Hou	99	858.7	5	8
5	Vinny	Castilla	SD	69	575.0	4	10
5	Aramis	Ramirez	ChC	125	1090.0	0	0
5	Ryan	Zimmerman	Was	125	1089.3	-1	-1
5	Chad	Tracy	Ari	121	1076.7	-1	-2
5	Garrett	Atkins	Col	125	1101.7	-3	-3
5	David	Bell	Mil/Phi	114	984.7	-3	-4
5	Chipper	Jones	Atl	90	783.3	-5	-9
5	David	Wright	NYM	124	1119.7	-8	-10
5	Miguel	Cabrera	Fla	126	1072.7	-9	-11
5	Edwin	Encarnacion	Cin	82	688.3	-9	-19

Koskie got the Brewer infield off the hook. David Wright and Miguel Cabrera still struggling, but possibly improving. Scott Rolen still shining. Pedro Feliz? I was unaware.

Shortstop

Pos	NAME	Last	Team	GP	INN	RSpt	RS/150
6	Adam	Everett	Hou	119	1040.0	20	26
6	Omar	Vizquel	SF	123	1059.3	10	13
6	Jose	Reyes	NYM	120	1080.7	10	12
6	David	Eckstein	StL	115	992.3	8	11
6	Khalil	Greene	SD	111	989.7	5	6
6	Clint	Barmes	Col	116	1000.7	4	5
6	Craig	Counsell	Ari	74	640.7	3	7
6	Rafael	Furcal	LA	124	1091.3	0	0
6	Ronny	Cedeno	ChC	105	883.3	-2	-2
6	Jack	Wilson	Pit	108	930.0	-2	-4
6	Bill	Hall	Mil	96	824.7	-3	-5
6	Edgar	Renteria	Atl	115	1008.0	-4	-5
6	Jimmy	Rollins	Phi	124	1089.0	-4	-5
6	Royce	Clayton	Cin/Was	115	953.7	-4	-5
6	Hanley	Ramirez	Fla	121	1040.0	-11	-14
6	Felipe	Lopez	Cin/Was	123	1065.0	-17	-21

What is wrong with Felipe Lopez? And Adam Everett is a defensive monster. Renteria has improved since the ASB.

Left Field

Pos	NAME	Last	Team	GP	INN	RSpt	RS/150
7	Ryan	Langerhans,	Atl	80	574.7	12	29
7	Dave	Roberts,	SD	86	729.3	11	20
7	Cliff	Floyd,	NYM	75	635.3	5	11
7	Matt	Murton,	ChC	102	793.0	5	8
7	Andre	Ethier,	LA	88	722.0	3	6
7	Barry	Bonds,	SF	92	698.0	3	6
7	Alfonso	Soriano,	Was	127	1100.7	3	4
7	Matt	Holliday,	Col	121	1053.0	2	3
7	Pat	Burrell,	Phi	98	783.3	1	2
7	Luis	Gonzalez,	Ari	121	1076.3	-1	-2
7	Carlos	Lee,	Mil	98	835.3	-2	-3
7	Jason	Bay,	Pit	127	1101.0	-5	-6
7	Adam	Dunn,	Cin	125	1082.0	-10	-13
7	Josh	Willingham,	Fla	100	802.3	-12	-21
7	Preston	Wilson,	Hou/StL	95	824.0	-19	-31

Ryan Langerhans needs some playing time. His defense is superb. His defense is what Andruw’s is purported to be. dave Roberts has made a huge jump in teh standings, and looks to deserve a Gold Glove. Bonds’ defense is hanging tough.

Center Field

Pos	NAME	Last	Team	GP	INN	RSpt	RS/150
8	Juan	Pierre,	ChC	129	1137.0	12	15
8	Carlos	Beltran,	NYM	112	983.7	12	16
8	Eric	Byrnes,	Ari	102	875.0	8	12
8	Reggie	Abercrombie,	Fla	84	586.0	7	15
8	Mike	Cameron,	SD	108	970.3	6	8
8	Willy	Taveras,	Hou	113	916.3	5	8
8	Jim	Edmonds,	StL	95	763.3	5	9
8	Steve	Finley,	SF	108	828.0	4	7
8	Cory	Sullivan,	Col	95	739.3	-1	-2
8	Kenny	Lofton,	LA	92	740.3	-2	-4
8	Aaron	Rowand,	Phi	107	901.7	-3	-5
8	Brady	Clark,	Mil	101	800.0	-4	-6
8	Andruw	Jones,	Atl	120	1037.0	-6	-8
8	Ken	GriffeyJr	Cin	93	807.7	-11	-18

Carlos Beltran is the MVP. Griffey is struggling again.

Right Field

Pos

NAME

LAST

TEAM

INN

RSpt

RS/150

Juan

Encarnacion,

StL

115

918.0

Brian

Giles,

126

1120.0

Jacque

Jones,

ChC

117

973.7

Jeremy

Hermida,

Fla

659.0

Chris Dial Posted: August 29, 2006 at 02:08 AM | 33 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: August 29, 2006 at 06:07 AM (#2159954)

It amazing how good Valentin is at second considering how little he has played it in his career.

2. Baldrick Posted: August 29, 2006 at 06:24 AM (#2159958)

Holy formatting, Batman!

My initial reaction is that a lot of young guys are doing terribly. I thought defensive peak was supposed to be really early. Or does it take a little while for them to adjust to the big leagues, and then they quickly peak? Or is it just a few random high-profile kids doing badly?

3. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: August 29, 2006 at 06:34 AM (#2159962)

Jose Reyes... is there anything he can't do? *swoon*

Mr. Dial, how does Endy Chavez look? (or is there not enough data at a given OF slot?)

4. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: August 29, 2006 at 06:38 AM (#2159963)

Are these directly comparable to the AL numbers or are these runs above/below average calculated separately for each league? Sorry I couldn't read the text above and may have missed it if it was covered there.

5. Srul Itza At Home Posted: August 29, 2006 at 06:57 AM (#2159969)

If Omar is still that good at that age -- you would expect he has been very good for a long period of time.

6. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: August 29, 2006 at 02:04 PM (#2160116)

Thanks for the formatting. Er...could we get all the right fielders? TIA.

7. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: August 29, 2006 at 02:14 PM (#2160127)

Yikes, what happened to Aaron Rowand? Or did we Sox fans overrate him?

8. Mark S. is bored Posted: August 29, 2006 at 02:19 PM (#2160134)

From the July 11 stats:

Third Base

Pos    NAME    Last            Team    GP    GS    INN    RSpt    RS/150
5    David    Wright      NYM    86    86    786.3    -11    -19

and now:

Third Base

Pos     NAME     Last     Team     GP     INN     RSpt     RS/150
5     David     Wright      NYM     124     1119.7     -8     -10

So his RSpt went from -11 to -8 and his RS/150 went from -19 to -10 in about 6 weeks. It looks like his defense is coming around.

9. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: August 29, 2006 at 02:23 PM (#2160143)

Holy formatting, Batman!

Formatting is great this time around; except that the RFers seemed to disappear except for the top 4.

10. Kyle S Posted: August 29, 2006 at 04:00 PM (#2160265)

Agree wholeheartedly with the langerhans comment. It's apparent (to me at least) that he's a much superior OF to Andruw at this point. He's fast but not lightning fast - he just gets to EVERYTHING, and has a very strong arm as well (which i know isn't included in this rating).

what does +29 in LF translate to in CF - +15 or so?

Pierre probably gives back several runs with his arm.

One other thing about Langerhans - his being left-handed seems to help him make extra plays in LF down the line; when another outfielder would have to backhand the ball, he can dive with his body facing home plate and get more extension. Is there a LH/RH bias in LF versus RF?

11. ASmitty Posted: August 29, 2006 at 04:03 PM (#2160269)

Special mention for Soriano.

12. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: August 29, 2006 at 04:05 PM (#2160272)

Yikes, what happened to Aaron Rowand? Or did we Sox fans overrate him?

I remember his UZR being among the best last year, and Dial's numbers supposedly correlate.

13. Norcan Posted: August 29, 2006 at 04:30 PM (#2160315)

Aaron Rowand was a different center fielder after he came back from his face collision. There were balls getting over his head like I've never seen from him.

He got injured on 5/10 and then returned on 5/27. Chris, do you know his before and after numbers from those dates?

14. Sweet Posted: August 29, 2006 at 04:38 PM (#2160325)

Aramis Ramirez with better defense than Ryan Zimmerman. It's a mad, mad world.

15. Chris Dial Posted: August 29, 2006 at 07:47 PM (#2160577)

I'll get back to this. Thanks.

16. AROM Posted: August 29, 2006 at 08:20 PM (#2160605)

So his RSpt went from -11 to -8 and his RS/150 went from -19 to -10 in about 6 weeks. It looks like his defense is coming around.

Now if only he can remember how to hit homers...

17. ShoeGrit Posted: August 29, 2006 at 09:45 PM (#2160682)

How does a team like the d backs only have three guys showing marginally in the negative, (Hudson, Tracy, and Gonzo) and probably Green quite a bit in the negative, once the RF'ers show up, but everyone else in the positive....exceedingly so up the middle at SS, C and CF. Yet they rank 27th in DEF with a .683 mark. It would seem that the D backs defense should rank closer to the middle. Are ALL the bench players just total stiffs with the glove, dragging them down?

18. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: August 29, 2006 at 10:34 PM (#2160710)

It's possible that the majority of BIP are in the zones that have been poorly defended, and/or out of zones altogether.

19. ShoeGrit Posted: August 30, 2006 at 12:01 AM (#2160783)

It's possible that the majority of BIP are in the zones that have been poorly defended, and/or out of zones altogether

But how many positions are "poorly" defended? According to this, Hudson Tracy and Gonzo are only slightly less than average, and everyone else is above average. Green is bad, but he can't be so bad as to single handedly drop AZ to 27th in DEF.

Of course maybe the pitchers suck, and as you say, all the balls are being hit out of zones altogether. Still....something is not adding up right.

Estrada +3
Jackson +1
Hudson -2
Tracy -1
Counsell +3
Gonzo -1
Byrnes +8
Green ??

20. SG Posted: August 30, 2006 at 12:34 AM (#2160796)

Arizona's bench is pretty bad defensively it seems, but Defensive Efficiency is not a good measure of team defense anyway, because of the noise from the pitching staff. Here's the total of each position on Arizona except catcher, including the bench.

2006 Ari 1B 2
2006 Ari 2B -4
2006 Ari 3B -4
2006 Ari CF 8
2006 Ari LF -2
2006 Ari RF -5
2006 Ari SS -4

Total: -5

I'm using Chris's method here, although there may be a few slight differences, but it should be close enough.

21. SG Posted: August 30, 2006 at 12:38 AM (#2160799)

Oops, total is -9, not -5.

22. AROM Posted: August 30, 2006 at 12:48 AM (#2160804)

When comparing ZR to DER, don't forget the park. AZ is a hitters park, though I'm not sure how much it raises BABIP.

23. NTNgod Posted: August 30, 2006 at 01:45 AM (#2160845)

Koskie got the Brewer infield off the hook.

The Brewers' defense is not good*, but it does point out a future problem for static-zone systems.
Milwaukee shifts around on virtually every play almost like a football team, based mostly on prior hit data, IIRC (no advance scouts, it's all video and hit charts). If the player isn't in the zone, or at the very edge... you end up measuring the quality of the positioning as much as the player's actual skill.

To use an example - from observation, Koskie IS a good defensive player, but many times the Brewers' system will have him playing where you would expect Hall to be playing. If I understand correctly, Koskie gets 'bonus points' at 3B for fielding balls there, but is not negatively charged for the balls he doesn't get to while shifted.
*HALL* would be, even if he's nowhere near the play, correct?

* they also seem to prefer to have their OFers line up incredibly deep as a rule, too, which drives me nuts.

24. ShoeGrit Posted: August 30, 2006 at 02:48 AM (#2160937)

Thanks for the input SG and Rallymonkey. That makes more sense.

25. Chris Dial Posted: August 30, 2006 at 02:49 AM (#2160938)

shoewizard -
BIP distribution is the whole deal. The pitchers can allow umpteen million LDs or GBs that don't enter a zone, and that is what depresses DER.

There is no such thing as team defense. It's like team offense.

26. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: August 30, 2006 at 12:43 PM (#2161232)

If I understand correctly, Koskie gets 'bonus points' at 3B for fielding balls there, but is not negatively charged for the balls he doesn't get to while shifted. *HALL* would be, even if he's nowhere near the play, correct?

I think this favors Hall, though (at least in concept). Koskie would be charged for a ball in his designated zone, and furthermore there's nobody there to cover for him. But Hall's zone is covered by Koskie.

IYAM, when there's a wacky shift on, ZR should be turned off. Just like when a bunt is deemed a SH. Maybe it doesn't come up enough to matter, but still.

27. Walt Davis Posted: September 02, 2006 at 12:38 AM (#2165187)

The 3B numbers look a little odd -- lots of guys having very good seasons and lots of guys having really bad seasons.

The LF numbers, with Bonds, Murton and Floyd doing well (and Wilson doing so horribly) are, shall we say, counterintuitive. Maybe it's the horribleness of others that makes those three look pretty good.

28. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2006 at 03:58 PM (#2165675)

Walt,
I believe the 3B numbers are that way historically. Some teams view 3B as a bat position, while others view it as a defensive position. Since I started this, 3B has had the widest difference.

Floyd did well last year. He's pretty good, IMO.

29. Fred Garvin is dead and Joe Biden is alive Posted: September 03, 2006 at 05:53 PM (#2166400)

I'll admit that I haven't taken the opportunity to read Chris's methodology, but I will assume that OF arm strength/accuracy isn't counted.

Otherwise, there is no way that I can possibly believe that Jacque Jones is the 3rd best RF.

I'm also not buying Murton's ranking either.

30. Chris Dial Posted: September 03, 2006 at 07:42 PM (#2166520)

No, dJf, OF Asists are not included. But they would only minimally impact the ratings.

31. Fred Garvin is dead and Joe Biden is alive Posted: September 04, 2006 at 05:52 PM (#2167206)

Thanks, Chris. All I know is that, wrt Jones, in 39 years on this planet, I've never seen a MLB outfielder consistently make throws less than 50 feet. It's just incredible.

I'm amazed that even the slowest runners don't try to take an extra base on him. Every time he has a play on a runner, he gets flustered and either unleashes a throw 10 feet over the cutoff man or, more likely, one that bounces 6 times before reaching the infield.

I'm amazed he has 5 OF assists. Apparently, I missed them.

32. ShoeGrit Posted: October 17, 2006 at 06:12 PM (#2215065)

Just wondering if you were going to post the final year end numbers. Thanks Chris

33. dcsmyth1 Posted: February 18, 2008 at 07:27 PM (#2693846)

I saw many/most 2007 Cubs games on TV, as I do every year. I had no sense that I was seeing a good defensive team. I did notice that Ramirez looked much better at 3rd. IIRC, Dewan plus/minus also ranked the Cubs high for 2007. But, I really think it's some sort of statistical illusion--something that hasn't been accounted for.

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