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Monday, October 20, 2003

October 20, 2003

The fans of the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago Cubs were once again taken to the brink of ecstasy and then disappointed, like so many teenage boys at a make-out party, or, if you prefer, all those boys’ wives throughout their marriages.

As if you didn’t know (and there are people who don’t), the Chicago Cubs were within five outs of World Series with a three-run lead in Game Six of the National League Championship Series. Cub ace, Mark Prior had thrown 95 pitches through seven innings. He retired Mike Mordecai to start the eighth inning, but he was visibly tired. Cub fans began to worry – should Dusty bring in Farnsworth? Juan Pierre doubled. Now the Bleacher Bums couldn’t yell for a reliever loud enough. But Dusty chewed his toothpick and waited. With Juan Pierre on second base, Luis Castillo hit a 3-2 pitch into the left field foul stands - almost. As the ball came down right above the brick wall, Joe Fan reached for the ball, just above the outstretched glove of Cub left fielder Moises Alou. Joe, a purported Cub fan, tipped the ball away from Alou and Castillo’s at-bat stayed alive. Alou was incensed. Castillo walked and the pitch got away from catcher Paul Bako, moving Pierre to third base. Now the howling began. Prior’s pitch count was suddenly at 114, and he was struggling. It was still 3-0. Dusty chewed a little harder and Cub fans began to stir uneasily in their seats, as if the previous night’s draft beer and the lunchtime burritos had caught up with them. On an 0-2 pitch, Ivan Rodriguez singled, scoring Pierre. "It’s okay," the Cub collective whispered, "still 3-1." Dusty had to relieve Prior now. But no, the next pitch was a double play ground ball to sure-handed Alex Gonzalez, who booted it. The Cub fans bleated. It wasn’t the Curse of the Goat – tonight there would be a whole herd of them – Joe Fan, Gonzalez and Dusty. The Marlins touched home eight times in the inning, sending a shocked and drunken crowd stumbling home from Waveland Avenue.

As if you didn’t know (and there are people who don’t), the Boston Red Sox were within five outs of World Series with a three-run lead in Game Seven of the American League Championship Series. Grady Little chose to stick with Pedro Martinez, who was clearly out of gas to the Primates. Derek "Clutch" Jeter doubled. Then, in a synchronized maneuver as smooth as the congregation kneeling at Mass at St. Patrick’s Cathedral on Easter Sunday, the Red Sox Nation fell to their knees, pleading for Little to take Pedro out. Bernie Williams singled scoring Jeter, making the score 5-3. Hideki Matsui roped a 0-2 pitch for a double down the right field line. A fan reached out and touched the ball, stopping Bernie Williams at third, allowing the Nation to inhale wincingly, like a man that is pretty sure he’s been hit in the family jewels, but has that, that fleeting moment of hope, where it may not hurt too bad, before he doubles over in agony. The pleas reached a fever pitch - "For God’s sake, Grady, get Pedro out of there!" No move was made. Jorge Posada came to the plate. Posada gorked a ball into centerfield that Nomar, Todd Walker and Johnny Damon all frantically tried to catch, with no success. The Texas leaguer fell safely to the ground and Williams and Matsui both scored. In the dizzying events, the Red Sox players failed to cover second base and Posada strolled in with a crowd-rousing double. It was a fine pitch and good hitting, and an unbelievable amount of luck, but it brought one gigantic collective Charlie Brown "AUGH" from The Citizens. The score was tied 5-5 and Grady Little ambled to the mound. He was just too late – and everyone but Grady and Pedro knew that he was too late before it got to be too late.

As if you didn’t know, heartbreak was all these fans got this baseball season. Sure, there is some satisfaction in saying "We won the division" or "We had the best offense" and "We at least made the playoffs", but that’s Atlanta Braves-type satisfaction. And it stinks.

So now the really serious arguing begins. No, not who screwed up more, Dusty or Grady, but who suffers more: Red Sox fans or Cubs fans?

Let’s take a look:

The Cubs last won the World Series in 1908 - nice, round 95-year drought. The Red Sox last won when they beat the Cubs in 1918 – a nice, round 85-year drought.

Since the Cubs last won, oh, those many years ago, they have been to the World Series seven times. Yes, it has been since 1945, and few of you reading this, if any, were even alive to see it. Nonetheless, the Cubs have had their chances, considering what we know about short series.

Looking at the 1945 World Series, it looks mostly like the Cubs tried to ride Hank Borowy, the original 1984 Rick Sutcliffe, one too many times and Game 7 got out of hand before anything could be done to stop it. Borowy had started Games 1 and 5 and threw 4 innings of relief in Game 6 before starting Game 7 on one day’s rest. Then the Cubs settled into five decades of second division play. The Cubs threatened competitiveness from 1968-1972, but until 1984, the Cubs were pretty wretched.

The Red Sox made it to the World Series in 1986, 1975, 1967, and 1946. Four times since 1918. In three of those seasons, they played a really dominant team. The Cardinals weren’t strong for many seasons, but the Big Red Machine and the Mets from 1984-1990 were very tough opponents. I guess what has added to the Sox misery is that all of their World Series appearances have gone the distance – each one with that single moment that turns the game from a Sox victory to a Sox defeat. Johnny Pesky’s extra crow-hop and Enos "Country" Slaughter scoring from first; the buzzsaw that was Bob Gibson; Doyle’s error in the sixth keeping the inning alive, just before a Perez home run; Buckner.

Each time, the Sox had not only made the World Series, but had gotten three wins and were just one game away from putting all this "curse" nonsense behind them. Heck, in three of the four WS, the Sox led in the game. In 1975 and 1986, they had a three-run lead going into the sixth inning.

So who has suffered more? I say, the Red Sox fans. It’s not too disappointing to be "Lovable Losers". It isn’t a lot of fun, except in the bleachers, but it isn’t really heart wrenching.

The Cubs go about each season, playing hard and working toward the top of the hill, only to start over each season. The fans feel excitement, but it’s always tempered, expecting disappointment. The Red Sox have had the Champions’ Cup pressed against their lips, even to the point of tilting the glass back, only to have it slapped away before washing the bitter taste of another lost chance out of their mouths.

In the end, who really suffers more, Sisyphus or Tantalus? Damnation is damnation.

Chris Dial Posted: October 20, 2003 at 01:00 AM | 19 comment(s)
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   1. Chris Dial Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:50 PM (#613576)
Angus,
you make a point, but I , for one, really don't care what is spent. It isn't my money, and I don't believe for one second teams have any *actual* budget. They say it, and pretend on Opening Day, but "can't go over our budget" will go right out the window if they want to. So I simply don't buy it.

Spending money un-wisely is a sign of stupid managment, and does make one desire a change in front office, but the actual dollar value itself doesn't bother me at all. It's not like the Mets haven't "bought" a NLCS banner since the Braves (who aren't really thrifty themselves) have.
   2. Chris Dial Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:50 PM (#613579)
Um, Yanks - it's 1-1. Or is that comment left over from 1960?
   3. Sam M. Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613589)
It's not as good as the Mets' 'at least we spent shitloads of money and got absolutely nothing for our troubles' type satisfaction, but I guess we have to make do with what we've got.

Angus, Angus, Angus. This would be more convincing if there were even the slightest indication that Braves' fans are taking any satisfaction whatsoever from their perennial regular-season excellence. At least around here, it seems like all we hear is bitterness about the unfairness the system works on the poor Braves because they have to run a post-season obstacle course to get to the World Series.

For my own two cents' worth, by the way, I think Cubs' fans have suffered the most. The Red Sox have enjoyed far more success, and most of them can remember their team at least in the World Series.
   4. Chris Dial Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613591)
Angus,
you should have seen what was edited out...

Sam,
yes, Red Sox fans we know *now* may have suffered less, but not the ones born in Boston in 1924.
   5. bunyon Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613597)
Hey, I love the Braves success. Every year being in the race, having a rooting interest as the season wanes, looking closely at matchups, calculating which wild card team you'll play this year. Its excellent. Those Braves fans unhappy with the performance (cough, sam, cough) are understandably disappointed with the playoffs the last few years but I doubt even they (he) would trade what we've had for the Brewers (or the 21st century Mets).

Chris, I can't blame you for your offhand comments about the Braves because I hate the Mets at least as much as you hate the Braves. Makes the world go round. In the end, the people I really hate are baseball fans who go berserk and say they hate baseball because the "wrong" team won. I guess I'm a bigger fan of baseball than of any one team. Sort of like putting country before party. I even watched the entire 2000 Series (and actually loved it).

How can we differentiate between Red Sox and Cubs fans. At the end of the year, every fan of every team but one will be disappointed, at least a little. However, how many fans of those two teams (or the White Sox) have suffered for the full run of futility? I guess the 85 year old Cubs fan has it over the 85 year old Red Sox fan but, I hope they've gained some perspective by this point. This is why Phillies fans have nothing to grumble over (well, except Larry Bowa, speaking of hate); most Phillie fans now alive have experienced a pennant and a lot will have fond memories of a Series title. Seeing as how the Red Sox are a good team in the race much more often than the Cubs (or White Sox), I'd say the Cubs fan (or White Sox fan) suffers more.

By the way, Chris, I spent the weekend in Cary and, my god, the traffic sucks now. I guess I got caught up in the fair/NC State mess on Thursday. Yuk.
   6. bunyon Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613599)
I can only hope that he is more gracious in victory than he is in defeat.

I wouldn't count on it, Angus. Instead, do what I do and counter by insulting the Mets at every opportunity. Say helpful things like, "it is good that the team play now matches the smell of Shea." (it even rhymes)...:)
   7. Sam Hutcheson Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613600)
One is both stunned and amused. On the one hand, I'm getting referenced in the followup of a Dial column, proving once and for all that I am much, much more loved than he is. My Reader Approval Index Directory (RAID) is now a full 23 RAIDS above replacement level, while Dial is hovering around the Ordonez line. That's great, and quite satisfying on a personal level.

But on the other hand, people seem to think that I think thinks I don't think, like this:

Those Braves fans unhappy with the performance (cough, sam, cough) are understandably disappointed with the playoffs the last few years but I doubt even they (he) would trade what we've had for the Brewers (or the 21st century Mets).

I am not unhappy with the Braves or their recent performance. That is a misreading of my work...
   8. Bob T Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613602)
"Goats, Greeks, Catholics" is the reference from the homepage.

But where do Catholics fit into this?
   9. bunyon Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613603)
Sam, I was just trying to be funny. I don't really think you're unhappy with the Braves. Just the universe. Or was it God? Perhaps, the Angels? I get confused pretty easily.
   10. Robert Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613609)
This would be more convincing if there were even the slightest indication that Braves' fans are taking any satisfaction whatsoever from their perennial regular-season excellence.

I think you would be misinterpreting things here. Winning 100 games every year is great. Watching Chipper mash, Andruw run down gappers, and Smoltz blow people away - good times. The one week of badness doesn't ruin the six months of fun for me anyway. It sure beats the non-Yankee alternatives.
   11. Chris Dial Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613613)
Whew-
Sam, my RAIDS isn't content-adjusted. You get far too much credit for obscure musical references, while I get almost none for obscure science references.

Angus - oh, this is a column on how fans feel about their teams post-season woes. My comment wasn't a slam on Atlanta - it was a slam on their fans. HUGE difference.

I have nothing against the Braves team - my problem has almost always been with some of their fans (in terms of site cites) and what I consider an unearned sense of entitlement (like Yankee fans have) due to the weak post-season performances.

We just had a misunderstanding. But look at the context - in discussing how fans feel about their favorite teams post-season success, there is the Cubs/Red Sox/White Sox and then there is the Yankees and Braves (in recent times). Well, the Yankees have won a fistful of WS in the last decade, while the Braves have not, despite a dozen chances. No other team really fits the example except the Braves and their fans. Were this 1990, the Mets would have been a good choice because for all their reg. season wins, they only won one WS and the best team they fielded yakked one up in hideous fashion to the Dodgers. I still hate Mike Scioscia.
   12. Robert Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613617)
My version of suffering vs dissappointment:

Suffering is like being a fan of the mid to late 80s Braves. What I call the Andres Thomas era. Being stuck watching a lousy team getting thier heads handed to them every night. That's suffering but not much dissappointment because you never really had any hope. Cubs fans can be said to be long suffering.

Dissappointment is the '91-present Braves (except '95 of course). Top notch teams but ending in disaster and/or embarassment. Having a good season end on a bad note is definately dissappointing but there isn't a lot of suffering because you had the six good months. Red Sox fans have gone through a long string of dissappointment.

As a fan of both those Braves teams, I'll take dissappointment over suffering any day. Dissappointment hurts a lot all at once but is still preferable to month after month, year after year of frustration. So I'll say that the Cubs fans have had it the worst.
   13. bunyon Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613619)
You get far too much credit for obscure musical references, while I get almost none for obscure science references.


Chris, I read you mainly because you're a chemist (you're going to kill me now if you say you're a biologist).

Robert, well said. Disappointment beats hell out of suffering. And I would say 92-present Braves. The whole 91 thing came about too fast to expect anything. As late as mid-September I really had no hope they would win anything. Then I expected the Pirates to kill us. Then the Twins. I guess disappointment was the 8th inning of game 7. Ah, memories.
   14. Robert Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613620)
The Brad Komminsk phenomenon was certainly entertaining that's for sure. I've posted this before but my favorite move during that era was when they signed German Jimenez out of Mexico and billed him as "The Next Teddy Higuera". Turns out he couldn't strike anyone out and was drunk about 90% of the time. He lasted 15 games and was never heard from again. That kind of stuff happened all the time back then. It's still hard to believe they got it turned around.

   15. Sam M. Posted: October 19, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613621)
they only won one WS and the best team they fielded yakked one up in hideous fashion to the Dodgers. I still hate Mike Scioscia.

I was at that frigging game. Unlike my ticket stub to Game 6 of the '86 World Series, that one did not survive to be framed and hang on my office wall.

Angus, my point remains valid: it does seem like Braves' fans are more unhappy because of the post-season system, with its three divisions and wild cards, and its perceived injustices, then they are happy with the long and remarkable success of their team. Now, maybe that's just an impression created by one or two voices and not a fair representation of Brave fandom writ large, but it's certainly my impression.
   16. Sam Hutcheson Posted: October 20, 2003 at 10:51 PM (#613644)
From Angus: My question would be, do you get that impression from talking to actual Braves fans, or do you get it from the stories written in October that always include the line, "The Braves, who, despite their impressive run of division titles, captured only one World Series title"?

I can not stress enough how much this phenomena plays into my decisions to rant, rave and write about the inequities of the playoff system. If Fox Sports didn't run headlines like "Braves or Cowards" (yes, they really did) after the Braves were eliminated, if there wasn't this insane culture of stupidity that relegates "greatness" to "only the last team standing in a tricked-up system" then I, and I suspect many of my fellow fans, wouldn't be so adamant about pointing out the stupidity inherent in the system.
   17. Walt Davis Posted: October 20, 2003 at 10:52 PM (#613649)
But the Cubs are more pathetic.

Not only have we not won a world series since 1908, but we are also the last team to lose a world series to the Boston Red Sox. Our own little Curse of the Bambino as Ruth won two games in that series. And we've even managed to lose a World Series to the White Sox.

Without looking, can anyone name the other team to lose the World Series to both the Red and White Sox?
   18. Mike Emeigh Posted: October 20, 2003 at 10:52 PM (#613656)
The New York Giants lost to the Carmine Hose in 1912 and the Pale Hose in 1917. An argument can be made - in fact I think has been made - that the Giants' franchise also has a curse on it related to the move to SF. Maybe Treder knows.

-- MWE
   19. strong silence Posted: October 20, 2003 at 10:52 PM (#613665)
Live, from the Yankee Sports Network presented by Fox, the home of the 24-Hour Derek Jeter Channel, we present the match up of the two greatest playoff teams in Major League History. In this corner, the New York Yankees, winners of the most World Series of all time, and in the opposing corner, the Florida Marlins, who have never lost a postseason series.

1. Is there really any need to compare? I mean, what is the point of comparing levels of frustration and suffering? My sense is that most of what is written here is about being "I'm better than you" or "I deserve it more." Hey! Simply acknowledge a fan's frustration and lend a shoulder to cry on.

2. I'm a baseball fan and I'm never disappointed. I stopped viewing these contests as "us versus them" a few years ago and I'm no longer disappointed. Sure, I root for the Mariners because I enjoy the camaraderie of my fellow fans. But if the A's win I don't think they are better people or deserve it less (even though they are wasting first round chances others could use.) The 2002 Angels were one of the most enjoyable exhibitions of hitting I've ever witnessed and I was totally enthralled each game. I used to be anti-Bonds but now I admit that even though someone may not have a complete set of admirable personal qualities it doesn't mean I can't appreciate their athletic skill.

Isn't it weird to be a partisan of the team you live near anyways? Does geography dictate our lives that much? Are you stuck with the team you are born near? As a kid I loved the Reds because they were the nemesis of my Dad's favorite team (part of my Oedipus complex.) As an adult, I want all teams to do well because the Game is the Thing. I don't enjoy the pitiful performances of the Detroit Tigers and I don't think anyone wants to see that level of performance.


MORE STRONG SILENCE
3. The Grady Little-Game Seven-Pedro controversy sparked an idea. Why have a field manager? Why have a field manager that might have different ideas about platooning, pitcher usage, etc. than the General Manager? It seems that if Theo thinks Grady mismanaged Game 7 he will fire him or else educate him to manage the way Theo wants.

I wonder if we will ever see a GM who is also the Field Manager. Or, if we will ever see a GM who restricts a field manager to arguing calls, going to the mound to give a pep talk, or other non-strategic decisions. Perhaps others can educate me: Wasn't Connie Mack both the GM and Field Manager?

4. ANGUS SAID: The system is designed to create the illusion of competitive balance craved by Selig. Selig has either said or implied that small budget teams have no chance and are lucky to win the World Series. So while he might want the average fan to believe this illusion he does not think the playing field is balanced.

5. The team that wins the World Series is the best team. Be gracious in defeat when your team loses and congratulate the other team (no matter how big their payroll budget.)
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