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Friday, June 29, 2007
My All-Stars
There are tons of ways to pick all-star teams. I used to complain about some voters, but my wife has pointed out more than once that the All-Star Game is for the fans, so whomever one votes for is fine. Nonetheless, I think it’s poor form to vote for everyone on your favorite team, particularly if that player is hitting under the Mendoza Line (coughAndruwcough). But even when that happens, while it robs from deserving players, it won’t really threaten to “win” a slot. The days of the Reds ballot box stuffing are over.
A good friend of mine, TheOtherHarris, does make the “all favorite team” vote. My wife votes for ”best looking players”. She also votes for ”player votes most likely to irritate my husband”. Who’s to say’em no? None of us. I don’t mind if some numbskull wants to vote for Chris Duncan for the OF, as long as he recognizes he’s voting 100% fanboy. 100% fanboy for the ASG is perfectly acceptable. The game is for you, vote for who you want to see play.
So given those things, here are my ballots for the past few weeks (about 75 votes, give or take an email address):
American League:
1B: Justin Morneau, MIN - he is awesome, and close to the best
2B: Ian Kinsler, TEX - this is one of my weakest votes, but it’s not terrible
3B: ARod, NYY - I’m sorry, but any other vote is just dumb.
SS: Jeter, NYY - I like watching Jeter play. He’s really good.
OF: Suzuki, SEA - I’m about as far from an Ichiro! fan as one can get, but he’s much more valuable in centerfield
OF: Guerrero, LAA - It’s Vlad, and those are some wicked hacks
OF: Sizemore, CLE - I don’t see enough of Grady, and I want to see more
C: Posada, NYY - again, how do you vote for someone else?
I know - no Red Sox, but that’s their fault for not having Youkilis on the ballot. I’m not typing that. Manny got a few of my votes too. Also no Magglio Ordonez. Vlad is a STAR, and Maggs is having a nice season, but he’ll fade, and Vlad will still be a STAR.
My starting pitcher in the AL would be Dan Haren. ERA, not Wins, is the stat of the day.
National League:
1B: Prince Fielder, MIL - Fielder is having a great season, and he is a star in the making.
2B: Chase Utley, PHI - this kid is simply one of the top five players in the league, and is grossly underrated.
3B: DWright, NYM - okay, Cabrera is hitting a good bit better, but I’d rather see DWright.
SS: JBReyes, NYM - Most exciting player in the game
OF: Griffey, CIN - I love watching Junior hit, and he’s a great player having a pretty good year
OF: Beltran, NYM - a bit of the fanboy in me, but I prefer, in the NL, to vote for a LF/CF/RF
OF: Bonds, SFG - He’s one of the best hitters in the game still, and certainly more feared than anyone else
C: Martin, LAD - Eh, this whole collection is weak, but Martin is doing pretty well
No Pujols. He’s a perfectly legitimate vote (I know I already said anyone is a legitimate vote), but Prince is really having a great season, and recognition is nice. Hanley Ramirez is having a great year as well at shortstop.
My starting pitcher in the NL would be Jake Peavy. He’s completely dominant and fun to watch.
Rmember, it’s not a bad choice if you truly believe in it. Vote for who you want, but try to think of others in that voting process, and just say “No” to those sub-.200 hitters.
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Yeah, I guess a 185 (!) OPS+ qualifies as a "nice season". But Vlad is a STAR, y'see? It's the all-STAR game, so only STARs are allowed, even if other players are having better seasons.
Oh, and Ian Kinsler? You're kidding, right?
No Pujols. He’s a perfectly legitimate vote (I know I already said anyone is a legitimate vote), but Prince is really having a great season, and recognition is nice.
Yes, but is Fielder a STAR? How can you be in the All-STAR game if you're not a STAR?!
He basically said to vote for whoever makes you happy, and if Kinsler is who makes him happy, more power to him.
Baseball Think Factory's original content in the past month has been reduced to CBW's great articles, a mock article by Szym, Emeigh's threads on the draft and the College World Series, an article on the Royals, and this trivial piece of work.
Sabermetrics. What's that?
C: Mauer
1B: Morneau
2B: Hill (I shoudl have voted somebody else, but it was the day Aaron hill stole home)
SS: O-Cab
3B: Wrote in Youkilis
OF: Ichiro, Sizemore, Magglio. I really don't want to see Vladdy field, I just want to see him rake.
intangibles count!
2007: .241/.334/.452
Away: .221/.318/.412
Home: .264/.352/.496
Roberts, Hill, and Polanco are all clearly better.
Yeah, that's a bit of a fanboy. Why you feel like doing LF/CF/RF in the NL but not the AL is beyond me, but if you need a CF, here's two who aren't STARS like Beltran, but it could be argued they are having better years: Josh Hamilton and Hunter Pence. Granted, Pence has 100 fewer ABs, but his VORP is 5 points higher, and Hamilton's a better story than a high paid guy underperforming.
Magglio should be there. He's far an away having the better season than Vlad or Ichiro.
Wow - this is complete hypocrisy with your previous statements griping to me about non perennial all stars losing votes to young upstarts having great seasons...Jack Wilson, Craig Wilson, Sean Casey, etc.
C: Pudge - Martin
1B: Kotchman - Fielder
2B: Polanco - Stache
3B: ARod - Wright
SS: Guillen - Reyes
OF: Ramirez, Sizemore, Sheffield - Bonds, Beltran, Cameron
No Pujols. He’s a perfectly legitimate vote (I know I already said anyone is a legitimate vote), but Prince is really having a great season, and recognition is nice.
Wha?
C: Martinez, Martin
1B: Ortiz, Pujols
2B: Polanco, Utley
SS: Jeter, Reyes
3B: Rodriguez, Cabrera
OF: Ordonez, Bonds
OF: Ichiro, Beltran
OF: Vlad, Griffey
C: Posada (AL)/Martin (NL)
1B: Ortiz (AL)/Fielder (NL)
2B: Roberts (AL)/Utley (NL)
SS: Guillen (AL)/Ramirez (NL) [no Reyes b/c I cannot convey how loathsome I find the New York Mets - I'll die before I cast a vote for a Met]
3B: Rodriguez (AL)/Cabrera (NL)
OF: Ordonez (AL)/Hamilton (NL)
OF: Suzuki (AL)/Griffey (NL)
OF: Sizemore (AL)/Byrnes (NL) [just to piss off BBTF]
IMO, Roberts is the easy choice, but I can see arguments for Polanco or Pedroia. Kinsler, not so much.
C Martinez / Martin
1B Ortiz / Fielder
2B Roberts / Utley
3B A-Rod / Cabrera
SS Cabrera / Rollins
OF Ordonez / Holiday
OF Vlad / Griffey
OF Ichiro / Bonds
SP Haren / Peavy
I discuss my choices (and fill in the benches) here.
SS: Hardy NL he needs to be in it, and starting.
He needs to be better than Reyes. Too bad Braun didn't go north with the team.
I don't even remember who I voted for, in most instances; I just looked at the names, decided who I most wanted to see in what little I see of the game, and punched away.
No.
First, I disagree.
Second, even if you accept that, then why do I care who you or anyone votes for? Vote for all your team's players, b/c there's no push to objectivity at all. So, again, why do I care? Vote for the worst players b/c it doesn't matter.
Or, you can understand that yes, it's an exhibition, but an exhibition that aspires to be of the best talent in baseball, and you can try to justify and account for why you've chosen whom you've chosen. Under that scenario, some of Chris's choices are ludicrous.
in what world?
I mean griffey = Duncan offensively and one of them is league average, the other is garbage/griffey
warp1 has them basically equal. (win shares has duncan comfortably ahead---heck win shares has duncan one of the top 6 nl outfielders)
of course I'm more of the type of guy that likes to look at second half previous season and add in current season, but that would be even more unfair to griff as Duncan was the third best offensive outfielder in the nl the second half of last season.
1. current season
2. previous second half
3. career
4. entertainment value (the last two have a lot less weigh than the first two but have some weight) I mean Ichiro/Jeter both get bonus points due to their fan interest but they have to play to a level to be even considered before they get to those bonus's.
5. fanboyism....yep, albert deserves to be there(no ifs, ands or buts, I mean c'mon there are people on the planet that think Beltran deserves consideration :) ), Issy deserves to be considered and if Molina would have stayed healthy, he should have entered the discussion.
I don't.
That's true, here are two career lines:
Player A .267 .297 .375
Player B .173 .236 .207
Player A has a higher BA, higher OBP, and waaaay SLG.
Since position has no meaning whatsoever, that's more than enough evidence to say that Player A is better than Player B.
Who are these two players? Who cares? We have all the information we need in their OBP and SLG, right?
Duncan isn't one of the top OF - he can't even play if the opponent throws a LHP.
I mean Warp1 Griffey 2.8, Duncan 2.7.
Duncan is league average defensively, Griffey is not that makes up a lot of the ground from griffs better offense. I mean I know you are including Beltran partially because he is an elite level defender, so I know you like defense, I just can't see how you can vote Griffey and think that voting Duncan is purely fanboy, yet Griffey isn't.
If you are going by just Vorp why Griff (29.6) ahead of Holliday (35.9), Why Beltran(22.0) ahead of Rowand(26.6)?
I'm not advocating Duncan, just think it's hilarious that you think voting for Duncan is being a fanboy, while voting for nearly equally inferior choices (Griffey and Beltran) is being logical. None of those guys belong unless you are really pushing for previous glory and previous seasons, but if that is the case then Fielder(31) over Pujols(28.1) makes no sense.
and of course the Wright(30.8) pick is totally indefensible except to say "I'm voting for my hometown boys" instead of obviously better players like Chipper(33.2), miggy(38.9), if you are using Vorp as your criteria. (if you pull the better defense argument then once again how could you put fielder ahead of Pujols? or Griffey massively ahead of Duncan?)
I'm not really trying to say you are wrong, just that when you write an "article" badmouthing one style of voting, and then do exactly what you are badmouthing, it's pretty funny to note the inconsistency with your choices.
Did I not say any way to vote is acceptable?
Sine I didn't lay out all the criteria I include I haven't been internally inconsistent.
I voted for (and vote for) really good players that I want to see play. Not guys who stink but I like. Not guys who stink but wear the right laundry. I'm not going "solely" on VORP. It's a better measure than WARP1, particularly because it doesn't use "wrong" defense (same with WS).
PLaying time also matters (Chipper misses a ton) and defense matters some too, as well as your career. All these things matter.
I mean, Duncan? He can't get in the box against Santana, or any LHP. That's a significant liability.
Lots of things matter and when I select someone who is having a terrible season, or who is miles behind the next guy, then complain. I don't think I did that, with the only real complaints being AL 2b, which I acknowledged up front.
I just don't see Griffey as being anything better than Duncan, and factor in Duncans second half of last season vs Griffeys (which is a criteria I do use, but that is just me) and I don't think Duncan is a '100% fanboy' vote. Especially when you try to justify Griffey. If you would have said Carlos Delgado/Shawn Green/Jim Edmonds is 100% fanboy vote, I would have agreed, but a case at least can be made for Duncan.
I agree with your criteria, I don't vote that way of course, and use my 'fanboyism' as a tie breaker, but not as the first criteria. 40% current season, 35% second half of last season, 15% career achievement, 10% intangibles (stuff like 'exciting player in baseball'-see Reyes as you mentioned, although he really didn't need the help) and those percentages change depending on my mood, but current season is always the most important factor, for me at least.
Of course you did bring up a point that I didn't realize, earlier in the season he was hitting lefties, even when he was getting benched, but I guess eventually he stopped hitting lefties due to lack of use or whatever. I remembered him hitting well against lefties (or at least ok) but not playing because of TLR's insane fascination with Taguchi (who, I don't care what any numbers say, is a worse defender than Duncan this season) instead of any real need to platoon.
Here's something for you to chew on, D. "Thinking" is not identical to "sabremetrics." In fact, "sabermetrics" is a much larger category of inquiry than what you seem to be suggesting it is constrained to. Thinking, even thinking about baseball, is an even larger category or inquiry than even that.
Expand your horizons, Beavis.
If I voted for All-Stars I would vote for Andruw Jones repeatedly, just to piss Chris off. I think it should be changed to the "Game to Piss off Dial", personally.
-1b Juan Castro
-2b Juan Castro
-ss Juan Castro
-3b Juan Castro
-OF Norris Hopper
-OF Ryan Freel
-OF Juan Castro
-C Chad Moeller
-Util. Ryan Castro
-RP Mike Stanton
-SP Juan Castro
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