BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Boston Red Sox (22-13) @ Detroit Tigers (14-20), Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 7:05pm

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Wednesday, May 07, 2008

Boston Red Sox (22-13) @ Detroit Tigers (14-20), Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 7:05pm

BOS: Clay Buchholz (23, RHP, 2-2, 3.71)
DET: Armando Galarraga (26, RHP, 2-1, 1.88)

The Primer Chimp Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 255 comment(s)
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1. Third True Outcome Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:21 PM (#2772797)

I know it's low percentage and dangerous, but I do love when Papi does things like stretch a single into a double.

2. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:34 PM (#2772815)

Too bad Lowrie pulled his Little Leaguer act prior to it.

3. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:39 PM (#2772816)

More Little League play.

4. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:45 PM (#2772821)

I need more chatter. No tv coverage for me. And my internet is down. This is a blackberry post.

5. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2772825)

Throw out the fan who grabbed Lugo's double while it was still in play.

6. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2772827)

Stupid bunt try by Ellsbury to put him in an 0-1 hole. Now in an 0-2 hole.

7. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:51 PM (#2772828)

And then called out on a pitch well off the plate.

Then the put up an Amica Zone that of course doesn't have the pitch on it.

8. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:52 PM (#2772830)

Another crap impatient AB by Lowrie.

9. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#2772834)

Changeup happy to Granderson, and it works.

10. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:00 PM (#2772837)

Eventually, falling behind in the count to every single batter is going to burn you Clay, and it did there, because you put them in a hit-and-run count.

11. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2772839)

And another Little League play by Ellsbury on the throw in from center, nearly missing the cutoff man well after the run had crossed the plate.

All three rookies have been crap tonight so far.

12. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2772845)

ugh

13. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:08 PM (#2772846)

Absolutely no command of anything.

He's looked terrible ever since he slipped and fell chasing that Sheffield dribbler.

Even the weak hit by Ordonez in this inning, which was off the end of the bat, wasn't that unlucky because he left it up in a spot where Mags could poke at it.

14. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:09 PM (#2772847)

Remy's all over this. I don't think he's thrown one good pitch this whole inning. Even the swinging strikes have been lucky. Everything's up.

15. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2772848)

Bad decision by Lowrie. He was never going to get the double play and risked not getting an out at all.

16. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2772849)

Another Little League play by a rookie, and they can't turn the DP.

17. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2772850)

Boy, did Edgar bail him out big time.

18. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:20 PM (#2772860)

This has been a Rodrigo Lopez Memorial Junkballing Righty start so far from Galarraga. Fastball doesn't top 90lots and lots of slop instead, and even a 57-MPH Eephus pitch to K Ortiz.

19. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:24 PM (#2772863)

I don't think I'd ever heard of Armando Galarraga before tonight.

20. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:25 PM (#2772865)

YOUKS!

Lowell and Youks both got hits off the fastball, which means they'll probably see even more slop from here on out.

21. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:25 PM (#2772866)

Good stuff to go out there and get 2 runs back straight away - i love that ####

22. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2772873)

I don't think I'd ever heard of Armando Galarraga before tonight.

Any relation to Andres I wonder...

23. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2772878)

Meanwhile, Varitek and Buchholz seem to think that Buc is Rodrigo Lopez. Just refusing to use the fastball in any effective way.

24. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2772879)

Drew ought to have caught that..

25. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2772880)

this is a huge out - c'mon clay

26. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2772882)

####

27. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2772883)

From here (blackout) it appears Clay has just been unlucky on BIP (.600 BABIP), but I'd like to hear what those who are getting the broadcast are seeing. That pitch to Magglio looked like a hung curve.

28. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2772884)

Even there, he finally throws a fastball, but in a terrible location. As Remy said, Ordonez wasn't expecting it and was fooled badly, but it was up and caught too much plate, allowing him to still hit a line drive.

29. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2772885)

Injury Delay? :holding breath turning blue:

30. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2772886)

It was a fastball, not a curve to Magglio.

31. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2772888)

Cabrera fouled a ball off his leg. That caused the delay.

32. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2772889)

nice pitch - annoying run - but nice pitch

33. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2772890)

Cliff Lee is dominating the Yankees.

Oh damn, he just had a bloop fall in for a 3rd hit on the night. Still though, his line score is amazing yet again so far.

34. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2772892)

.625 BABIP, acc. to my most recent calculations.

35. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2772894)

#### you Renteria.

36. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2772895)

Seriously wtf is that, Renteria?

37. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2772897)

.625 BABIP, acc. to my most recent calculations.

It hasn't been that unlucky. He's sucked most of the night. Curveballs and changeups have been mostly up in bad locations. Like I said, even one of the weak contact hits he had came on a terrible pitch.

38. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2772898)

Jed!!!

39. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2772899)

Now THAT's some BIP bad luck if you're Galarraga.

40. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2772900)

Well, that shitty little grounder going through the shift sort of makes up for it, I guess.

41. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2772901)

Has Manny first pitch hacked in every AB tonight? Against another guy he's never seen before? Guess the HR last night has convinced him it's good strategy.

42. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:53 PM (#2772902)

I just wonder if the "bad locations" are just post-facto explanations for his seeming bad performance; if the hitters wave through them we are tempted to call them "good" pitches. We saw the worst 5 inning two hitter the other day-is it possible to have a bad 6K-1BB performance, or do you just have to recognize that sometimes the balls fall in, sometimes the defense doesn't catch them.

Oh, and Papi!

43. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2772905)

How hard was that lineout?

44. Marcel Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2772906)

Manny's been first pitch hacking all year.

45. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2772909)

Tavarez is still on the team? Who knew?

46. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2772910)

Man that's tough-82 pitches and he's out before the 5th?

47. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2772911)

I just wonder if the "bad locations" are just post-facto explanations for his seeming bad performance; if the hitters wave through them we are tempted to call them "good" pitches.

No.

Hanging curveballs and high changeups are never good pitches. You can get away with the occasional one if you're throwing mostly quality stuff - then you might say it's a "good" pitch if only because you changed planes, I guess. But that hasn't been what's happening tonight. He's also been falling behind a lot of hitters, which is another sign of crappiness.

48. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2772914)

Man that's tough-82 pitches and he's out before the 5th?

Farrell and Francona also saw what Remy and everyone else watching saw.

It may also be that he indeed bruised himself in some way when he fell on his ass chasing Sheffield's dribbler early on, and that stiffened up.

49. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2772915)

THAT is BABIP luck.

50. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2772916)

Julian, on the other hand, is having bad luck. Two ground balls, one in the shortstop hole, one in the first base hole.

51. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:00 PM (#2772917)

I think he did something minor when he fell in the 2nd inning, because he looked good before that.

52. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:00 PM (#2772918)

I am shocked, shocked that they have two straight hits off Tavarez.

53. Marcel Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2772919)

You should be. He's making good pitches.

54. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2772921)

Meanwhile in a alternate universe somewhere Clay Buchholz K's the first two batters.

55. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2772922)

Stupidest free out ever. Didn't they just put up a stat showing that Renteria owned the Crazy One?

56. Marcel Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:02 PM (#2772924)

Scratch what I just said... damn it.

57. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:02 PM (#2772925)

And the human white flag functions as expected.

58. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:05 PM (#2772927)

You should be. He's making good pitches.

Don't care. Tavarez sucks.

59. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2772928)

Can we go another week without seeing Tavarez again? That'd be great.

60. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2772929)

Seriously, with the bullpen completely unused last night, Taverez is the guy who gets the call in a 1-run game?

61. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:07 PM (#2772930)

Meanwhile in a alternate universe somewhere Clay Buchholz K's the first two batters.

I don't understand the attempts to demonstrate that Buchholz somehow pitched well tonight. Especially if you're not actually watching.

62. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:10 PM (#2772932)

This Cliff Lee thing is amazing. Just last season his K/BB was 66/36 and this year he's at 38/2. He's suddenly an impeccable control artist despite walking a batter every ~3 innings over his career!

63. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:11 PM (#2772934)

So there's hope for Lester?

64. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:12 PM (#2772936)

Tie game, but for Tavarez's antics. Fantastic.

65. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:12 PM (#2772938)

That was Buchholz-bad location on the changeup to Youkilis by Galaragga, and he paid.

66. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:15 PM (#2772940)

Holy ####, Drew hit a line drive off a lefty!

67. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:15 PM (#2772941)

The Detroit bullpen sucks. This game is still winnable.

68. Marcel Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2772942)

Lester's only 23. A lefty with his stuff will get plenty of time to turn it around. I mean, seriously. Teams are still giving De La Rosa chances and his control is horrid. If he just get the walks down to about 3 per 9ip, he'll be fine.

69. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2772943)

All I'm saying is that it is impossible for someone to have a .600 BABIP, based purely on his own ability, when K-ing more than 1 guy/inning. I'll bet that a lot of the same people in that 2-1 loss last week were all crowing about how "on" he was, and how ridiculous it was to even think to bring in Oka/Paps, and then he hangs the curve. They still have to hit it when he throws it. Precisely because I am not watching the feed I am less tempted by post-facto justifications for ball-in-play outcomes.

70. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2772944)

I am happy that it's so easy to hate Tavarez. I'd be torn if he were actually a likable guy.

71. Marcel Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2772946)

So, is that the opposite field swing that Boras was telling us about last winter?

72. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:18 PM (#2772948)

####.

73. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:18 PM (#2772950)

Going to lift the lefty because of LUGO? What the hell?

74. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:20 PM (#2772952)

Youks is ####### unconscious right now. Hopefully Casey will be back soon to spell him against the tough righties to keep Youks fresh for the 2nd half. I really don't want to see Hacktastic Youks this year like we did from July-Sept. last year.

75. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2772955)

TAKE LUGO TAKE

76. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2772956)

What happened to Youks?

Why was Clay pulled?

been away

77. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2772957)

You useless little ####. Go die.

78. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2772958)

You suck Lugo.

79. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:23 PM (#2772962)

I'd be torn if he were actually a likable guy.

I think he IS a likable guy, I like his backstory too.

80. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:24 PM (#2772963)

Wait, I think I confused Tavarez with Lugo. Lugo is the alleged wife-beater, right? Not Tavarez.

81. John DiFool2 Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:25 PM (#2772964)

Note I am mainly playing the Devil's Advocate in post 69. I'm just asking, rhetorically, how it is possible for someone to have enough "stuff" to K on half his outs, only to have 60% of the balls he allows in play to become hits. Yes it is possible, but is it all his fault?

82. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:25 PM (#2772965)

Tavarez couldn't eat two innings? Ugh

Why was Clay pulled?

because he wasn't good, might as well yank him early.

83. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:28 PM (#2772970)

Nice catch by Drew.

Lugo is the wifebeater.

84. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:34 PM (#2772978)

The fact that Aardsma walks a batter an inning has to catch up with him eventually.

85. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:34 PM (#2772979)

We need a 2 IP reliever, Aardsma is clearly a 1 IP guy, Manny D isn't fixed yet, Okajima needs to keep his outings shortened, and obviously using Papelbon for 2 Ip in the regular season isn't wise.

Tavarez seems to have lost his long-relieve capability (I still think he was better as the starter), Timlin is a corpse, Lopez is a LOOGY, and Hansen seems to suck the 2nd IP too.

86. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:35 PM (#2772981)

OK where teh F!@3 did that miss?

87. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:37 PM (#2772982)

Nice catch by Lowell!

88. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:40 PM (#2772988)

Deficit still sits at 1 Julian Tavarez inning pitched.

89. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:43 PM (#2772995)

Steal?

90. Chip Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:44 PM (#2772996)

I'm just asking, rhetorically, how it is possible for someone to have enough "stuff" to K on half his outs, only to have 60% of the balls he allows in play to become hits. Yes it is possible, but is it all his fault?

Precisely because he is so talented. And maybe a little help from the fact that none of these guys had seen him before. His arm motion on the changeup in particular is good enough that he can sometimes get swingthroughs even when the ball ends up in bad locations. And a couple of guys (especially Granderson) never, ever picked up on it, and looked foolish on balls that bounced in the dirt. So when you end up facing 23 batters in only four innings, you can have some intermittent success. The problem lies in the word "intermittent." There were very few off-speed pitches bouncing in the dirt or hitting the corners at the low end of the strike zone; most of his missed locations with the changeup and curve were in the upper half of the strike zone, and this lineup has too many good hitters to do that to. Which is why most of the contact off him, even on the outs, was pretty hard.

Like we said, he started off looking good, then slipped trying to play the grounder in Sheffield's first AB, and looked out of sorts most of the time after that.

91. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:44 PM (#2772997)

Hm, that's the closest Ellsbury has been to being caught.

92. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:45 PM (#2772999)

perfect throw - man he is quick

93. Marcel Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:46 PM (#2773000)

I wonder if they'd consider breaking Masterson in as a two or three inning guy later in the season, and then making him a full-time starter next year.

94. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:46 PM (#2773002)

Five more steals to tie Raines for the record.

95. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:46 PM (#2773003)

Jacoby will never be caught!

96. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:47 PM (#2773005)

damn that was hit hard.

97. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:48 PM (#2773008)

cliff lee - wow

If he wins the Cy Young the mgl might never be allowed to live it down...

jesus papi could not have hit it to a worse spot

98. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:51 PM (#2773012)

2-1 looked like a strike

99. Dan Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:56 PM (#2773017)

MIKE ####### LOWELL !!!!!!

100. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: May 07, 2008 at 09:57 PM (#2773018)

!!!

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