BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Boston Red Sox (95-67) @ Tampa Bay Rays (97-65), Friday, October 10, 2008, 8:37pm

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Friday, October 10, 2008

Boston Red Sox (95-67) @ Tampa Bay Rays (97-65), Friday, October 10, 2008, 8:37pm

BOS: Daisuke Matsuzaka (27, RHP, 18-3, 2.90)
TBR: James Shields (26, RHP, 14-8, 3.56)

The Primer Chimp Posted: October 10, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 970 comment(s)
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1. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 10, 2008 at 02:06 PM (#2976067)

Tampa Bay

Starting Pitchers: Matt Garza, Scott Kazmir, James Shields, Andy Sonnanstine
Bullpen: Grant Balfour, Chad Bradford, J.P. Howell, Edwin Jackson, Trever Miller, David Price, Dan Wheeler

Regulars: Dioner Navarro, Carlos Pena, Akinori Iwamura, Evan Longoria, Jason Bartlett, Carl Crawford, B.J. Upton, Gabe Gross, Cliff Floyd
Bench: Michel Hernandez, Willy Aybar, Ben Zobrist, Rocco Baldelli, Fernando Perez

Boston

Starting Pitchers: Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Tim Wakefield
Bullpen: Paul Byrd, Manny Delcarmen, Javier Lopez, Justin Masterson, Hideki Okajima, Jonathan Papelbon, Mike Timlin

Regulars: Jason Varitek, Mark Kotsay, Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Jed Lowrie, Jason Bay, Jacoby Ellsbury, J.D. Drew, David Ortiz
Bench: Kevin Cash, David Ross, Sean Casey, Alex Cora, Coco Crisp

2. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 10, 2008 at 02:06 PM (#2976070)

It's incredibly lame that both teams added a pitcher. You have starters in the bullpen, and there are three days off. How can you not get by with a ten-man staff?

3. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 04:08 PM (#2976208)

Think this is going to be a cracker. I am rooting for the Rays!

This game ending should segue nicely into the cricket game. I hope I am around!

4. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 06:05 PM (#2976344)

Lineups are pretty much standard fare:

Red Sox
CF Ellsbury
2B Pedroia
DH Ortiz
3B Youkilis
RF Drew
LF Bay
1B Kotsay
SS Lowrie
C Varitek

Rays
2B Iwamura
CF Upton
1B Peña
3B Longoria
LF Crawford
DH Floyd
C Navarro
RF Gross
SS Bartlett

5. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 07:32 PM (#2976401)

The key will be for Matsuzaka to go 6+ tonight. If he doesn't then the Sox may be short in the pen for Beckett's game.

6. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 07:33 PM (#2976402)

Timlin's not going to have much value. I'd rather see Bailey or Aardsma, but it's kind of small potatoes.

7. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2976408)

Timlin's not going to have much value.

He's good at that bullpen band stuff--the lynchpin.

8. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:00 PM (#2976410)

Whenever I see that I think that there must be at least one guy who can't stand that and is waiting for Timlin to retire.

Maybe the Red Sox should have put Breslow on the roster... oh wait.

9. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2976419)

What a brutal AB from Nomar to end the game in Philly. 3 sliders away and in the dirt, and he swings at all three.

10. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2976422)

To be fair, the first one wasn't in the dirt...

11. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:13 PM (#2976423)

Poor Nomar. I have nothing but fond memories of him.

12. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2976425)

Reminded me of this game.

13. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2976426)

My memories of him are mixed, and he was probably a PED'er.

14. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2976429)

I think I vaguely remember that AB, Mikael.

15. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:18 PM (#2976432)

That was kinda funny, the wat Tito just smacked Dusty's head during the into's.

16. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:20 PM (#2976433)

I believe it was the 1999 series where Nomar took several cortisone shots and proceeded to beat the hell out of the ball all series.

17. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2976434)

The Rays' intro act is very cheezy.

18. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2976435)

At one point Nomar held the post season SLG.% record.

19. Bruton Gaster Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:22 PM (#2976436)

Pretty subdued dome... might be messing with the crowd mics, but the upper deck looked pitiful.

20. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2976437)

For all that he's fallen off, Nomar is still a career .314 batting average.

Pedroia's ability to hit the ball hard practically every time up reminds me of Nomar.

21. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:24 PM (#2976438)

OK-lets get this out of the way right away:

Bon Jovi sucks, always has.

22. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2976441)

Damn you broken wrist!!! Why why why!!! Why get hit by a pitch there? Why then??? Arrghh!!!

23. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2976442)

He was headed to the ####### hall of fame. i feel ya.

24. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2976443)

Ah, the ####### hall of fame... the ####### hall of fame. Ahhhh.....

25. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2976444)

Expecting another good series. I think that given the injuries and the home field, Tampa's a bit better than us.

26. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2976445)

tfbg and I finally agree on something: the horribleness of Bon Jovi.

27. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2976446)

For the purputed strip club capital of America, those are some ugly, ugly fans Tampa's got.

28. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2976447)

This ought to be a great series. I'd have to say that Tampa's the favorite for the reasons cited by MCOA.

29. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2976448)

Disagree. The Red Sox are a slightly better team. Pitching is similar, and the Red Sox lineup is a fair bit better. Unless Beckett is as bad as he was in the ALDS, then I'm not so sure.

30. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2976449)

I like Bon Jovi. It's poptimism!

31. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2976450)

You know who? Who is Ron talking about? Voldemort?

32. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2976451)

Kotsay stinks. I still don't understand his presence in our starting lineup.

33. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2976454)

So how does the replay camera come into play with the Trop's ground rules on the roof and the catwalks?

In particular, I am wondering if there's some way that they might go to a replay to decide if a ball that hits the roof but isn't immediately called a HR is fair (hence in play) or foul? Or what if they review one and see evidence that supports making a change they're not supposed to make (I can't think through that one, much less explain it succinctly, but hopefully someone understands my drift)?

34. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2976455)

I'll still take Kotsay over Casey.

35. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2976456)

Versus a RHP, that is. I'd take Casey against LHP, as he can actually hit them about as well as he hits RHP.

36. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2976457)

Disagree. The Red Sox are a slightly better team. Pitching is similar, and the Red Sox lineup is a fair bit better. Unless Beckett is as bad as he was in the ALDS, then I'm not so sure.

With Kotsay batting in place of Lowell, I think the lineups are pretty close. And I'm still not totally sold on Drew's health. And as you say, our game 2 starter might suck. All those uncertainties, plus the Rays getting a couple percentage points to begin with for winning the division, and I think they're the favorites.

37. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2976458)

Dan, that's the point. Right now we have to assume there's a chance he'll stink.

Saeger's suits are not funny or cute. They're just stupid.

38. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2976459)

I pin the series at about 50/50 personally.

39. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2976460)

I'll still take Kotsay over Casey.

Why? I think you have to go with the bat at 1b and that greatly favors Casey.

Also, you could go with Cora at SS, Lowrie at 3B, and Youk at 1b.

40. Curse of the Graffanino (dfan) Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2976461)

LET'S GO RED SOX

41. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2976462)

Kotsay is a decent hitter vs RHP, and his defense at first is solid, even though he looks a bit awkward at times. Casey is totally immobile, and not really any better of a hitter vs RHP.

42. Rafael Bellylard (p8p) Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2976463)

I fully expect this series to be decided in the 12th inning of game 7.

43. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2976464)

50/50 isn't far off what I think. I'm probably around 55/45. Beckett's healthy and it swings the other way.

Speaking of 55/45, how about Nate's projections for Obama--up over 90 percent chance of winning.

44. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2976465)

great start to the series

45. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2976466)

What are the numbers Dan?

Nice AB by Ellsbury. :)

46. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2976467)

Someone else mentioned this Garnett/Sager interview last week, but (starting around 1:10) it's freakin' priceless.

"Retro is a look."

47. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2976468)

Kotsay hit .288 .345 .432 vs RHP this year. Do you really think Casey is meaningfully better? I don't.

48. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2976470)

Big game James looks very good. He hung that one to Pedroia, though.

49. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2976471)

If Maddon comes to his senses and pitches Shields in game four, Rays in six. If it's Crafty O'ffspeedjunk, Red Sox in seven.

50. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2976472)

Kotsay's splits were basically even for most of his career, but as his overall numbers have dropped in the last two years, his numbers vs. LHP have cratered - for what it's worth, I think he looks really useless out there against lefties.

51. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2976473)

(Casey hit .321 .385 .377 vs RHP this year)

52. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:43 PM (#2976474)

Good AB Pedroia.

53. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:43 PM (#2976476)

good at bat from dusty

54. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:43 PM (#2976477)

Is this like Papi's second at-bat all postseason with a runner on base?

55. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:44 PM (#2976479)

Dan, that's better, no? And over the past few years he's got to be better.

Any chance Papi gets moved?

56. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2976481)

Seems like it Mikael

57. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2976482)

Papi looks lousy.

58. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2976485)

The preference for Kotsay must come from above, as well. He does play real good defense.

59. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#2976487)

wow - Shields is Youk's #####

60. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#2976488)

It's 10 points lower OPS, but higher OBP and lower SLG. Almost no power at all. And it's on the strength of an unsustainable .369 BABIP.

Like I said, I'll take Kotsay vs RHP and Casey vs LHP.

And Ortiz swung under another one, just like the entire postseason.

61. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#2976489)

On the radio this morning, Gammons was saying something about Papi slugging .800+ on inside half pitches in the past, but only .250-something this year.

62. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#2976490)

Whose the home plate ump?

63. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:47 PM (#2976491)

Sorry, 15 points lower.

64. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2976492)

####### unlucky bounce.

65. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2976493)

damn - that costs us a run

66. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2976494)

The preference for Kotsay must come from above, as well. He does play real good defense.

I don't think the big guy concerns himself with this stuff.

Bad bounce there, what can you do. An inch to the right and it's foul, so it's sort of lucky.

67. IJason Varitek Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2976495)

Nice AB. Bad luck on the bounce.

68. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2976496)

Papi's said that he's starting his swing earlier to make up for the relative weakness of his wrist, so I'm guessing he's not as good at gauging and lining up the ball right now, and he probably won't get much better until he gets the wrist fixed.

Caray drops the technically correct "rule book double" call.

69. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2976497)

I don't think the big guy concerns himself with this stuff.

If the FO thought Casey was significantly better, they'd tell Tito to start him.

70. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2976498)

I wish Papi wouldn't share that kind of info.

71. Curse of the Graffanino (dfan) Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2976500)

Do umpires ever make the judgment call and let the runner on first score on a ground-rule double? IIRC they're allowed to.

72. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2976502)

Right over your head there Dan.

73. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2976503)

It's a judgment call on interference.

74. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2976504)

That's nasty.

75. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2976506)

If God didn't prefer Kotsay he wouldn't have made him a lefty.

76. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2976505)

dfan,

They can only do it on a fan interference. On the ground-rule double, it's 2 bases.

77. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2976507)

Well, they made him throw pitches. On the other hand, I think that Maddon's going to be leaning on Howell and Balfour in the bullpen, and they're really good.

78. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2976508)

Well,

MC's the bible expert so maybe he knows something that I don't about Kotsay being favored.

79. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2976510)

i prefer Kotsay for some reason - casey shits me sideways

80. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2976511)

That was a pathetic-looking AB by Drew. Sort of his style, though.

81. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:53 PM (#2976513)

94 BB's in 167 IP? ####, that's worse than Ollie Perez.

82. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:53 PM (#2976514)

My hope is that they wear Shields out and then beat up on him before he's lifted.

Tight call there to Iwamura.

83. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2976515)

My sense is that Drew will look like that on a certain pitch (Shields' change up in this case) early in the game, and recognize it and lay off of it in his 2nd or 3rd AB. But I could be pulling that out of my ass.

84. Marcel Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2976516)

Wow... Ron Darling obviously thinks Daisuke's nibbling is a good strategy.

85. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2976518)

I'm sure Ollie will be pointing that out to suitors this off season.

86. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2976519)

Dice-K ain't exactly going nine in this game, either.

87. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2976520)

Great ####### start, Daisuke.

88. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2976521)

Wow, you look like crap Dice. That was terrible. He didn't have to swing at 1 pitch.

What is so complicated about this rotation? Everyone pitches twice and Wake once. WHat's the mystery?

89. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2976523)

The Rays are going to run wild on Varitek, I think.

90. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2976524)

Dice needs to pound the zone. They are not going to swing until they have to (if they're smart).

Upton scares me.

91. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2976526)

Upton missed two in that AB.

92. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2976527)

Lucky as #### that Upton got under that.

93. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2976528)

Two straight cookies from Dice there. Very fortunate.

94. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2976529)

Peña is the one that scares me.

95. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2976531)

Okay, him too.

96. Darren Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2976533)

This is pathetic. YOU'VE GOT TO THROW STRIKES.

97. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2976534)

Would it hurt this gutless #### to get ahead in he count?

98. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2976535)

Dice does not look sharp right now. He hasn't put a good slider in yet.

99. Dan Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2976536)

Outside of Upton, Peña, and Longoria, their lineup isn't really too great though.

100. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2976537)

Its McLelland, the delayed call guy.

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Boston Red Sox (95-67) @ Tampa Bay Rays (97-65), Friday, October 10, 2008, 8:37pm

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