BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Chicago Cubs (81-50) @ Pittsburgh Pirates (57-74), Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 7:05pm on WGN

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Tuesday, August 26, 2008

Chicago Cubs (81-50) @ Pittsburgh Pirates (57-74), Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 7:05pm on WGN

CHC: Carlos Zambrano (27, RHP, 13-5, 3.29)
PIT: Ian Snell (26, RHP, 5-10, 5.60)

NTNgod Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:24 PM | 286 comment(s)
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1. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:36 PM (#2916982)

All right. Team! Let’s score some runs.

2. Dan Contilli Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:38 PM (#2916988)

Z trashing the dugout again. This time after the first inning. Soto looked terrible behind the plate that inning too.

3. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:38 PM (#2916990)

Well, that looks like quite the ugly-ass first inning I just missed. Jesus.

4. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:38 PM (#2916992)

Oh man, Z is pissed. I wouldn’t want to pitch to him today. Just don’t hurt yourself while angry, big guy.

5. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:39 PM (#2916993)

To summarize from the other thread:

"Oh, the Astros appear to have run themselves over with their own car! They're dead, but not necessarily out of it!"
Like the blue unis. Up with the blue! Down with the gray!
Z looks like he needs a drink tonight.
Offense: bring us the head of Ian Snell!

6. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:41 PM (#2917002)

And since I haven't said it in this thread yet:

Pedal to the metal. It's only the second--I can still say it.

7. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:41 PM (#2917004)

Time for Z to get 2 of those back.

8. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:42 PM (#2917008)

Or not. OK, off for my run. Good things happened during my workout last night. Like, 9 Cub runs scoring.

9. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:43 PM (#2917017)

Well that was a bit of a let down. Here’s hoping that Z can stay in the game for at least another at bat. How about a many run top of the third of the batting around variety?

10. SteveM. Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2917036)

Geez, another thread. This is a crappy start,

11. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:51 PM (#2917040)

I understand that it must be hard to cover a team like the Pirates, but their announcers make me want to stick a fork in my ear.

12. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:51 PM (#2917042)

Are we back to speculating that Zambrano might be hurt? He's looked pretty horrible today. And wasn't his command an issue in his last outing, even if Len and Bob are calling it a success?

13. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:55 PM (#2917050)

Something’s off with him. I really forgot how bad he’s bin in August after that 7 inning, 1 run outing. Even that was less than awesome with 4 bases on balls and 6 hits. Is he pounding the Gatorade cooler instead of drinking it? Is he chatting again? I hope it’s something new, entertaining and easily remedied.

14. Sweet Posted: August 26, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2917053)

So no one took the bait in the other thread (which is fine; ignore me if you'd prefer not to talk playoffs while we're losing to the Pirates), but anyway:

So, assuming the Cubs can set their playoff rotation however they want, where does Zambrano fall?

15. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:03 PM (#2917077)

Sweet, I must have missed that in the other thread. Top of the rotation for Z. Then again I’d like him in game 7 of the NLCS, should it get that far. In that case: Dempster, Harden, Z.

16. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2917081)

Another tailor-made double play ball. Good thing Soriano was on the other corner.

17. VoodooR Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:05 PM (#2917085)

Z is my #1 starter. Period.

18. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2917108)

This is one of those games, isn’t it? Errors, bad pitching, untimely hitting.

19. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2917113)

So, assuming the Cubs can set their playoff rotation however they want, where does Zambrano fall?

This may sound stupid and unviable, but...I was talking aobut this with someone at work the other day, and I actually wrote out a different rotation for each round of the playoffs:

Home games in CAPS

NLDS: DEMPSTER, ZAMBRANO, Harden, Lilly, DEMPSTER

NLCS: ZAMBRANO, DEMPSTER, Harden, Lilly, Zambrano, DEMPSTER, HARDEN

WS: Zambrano, Harden, DEMPSTER, LILLY, ZAMBRANO, Harden, Dempster

This isn't viable because of rest concerns, etc. And because no major-league manager would ever do that. And, you can see the key pitcher to all of these silly rotations is Demp. The goal would be to set up as many home games for him as possible, as long as he maintained his aura of invincibility at home.

Overall, the awesomeness of Demp and Mr. Roboto aside, I still think Z is our #1 pitcher, but it's not the open-and-shut case it was at the beginning of the season.

20. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2917114)

I still think they'll break through offensively, but it's got the makings of a game they probably won't deserve to win.

21. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2917122)

I'm cheering for a St. Louis sweep. And I'm not ashamed of it at all.

22. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2917123)

They're still making Snell work at least.

23. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:16 PM (#2917127)

It’s the 2008 Cubs. I fully expect them to win this, but mostly because my gut feeling doesn’t work any more. And by gut feeling I mean my confirmation bias. If you expect a team with a 60% win percentage to win, you’ll often be right. Dusty’s Cubs were just the opposite. I knew to expect losses with them.

24. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:18 PM (#2917132)

It’s nice how the Pirate team talks up Z’s pitch count (which is high, bad), but don’t say a word about Snell’s (which is almost as high, bad).

25. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:20 PM (#2917138)

“A lot of kids go to school today for the first time. I hope not too many were tardy, like Mark DeRosa was on those two fastballs.” Ouch. I under appreciate Len&Bob;.

26. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2917140)

I'm gonna go all Optimistic Moses (is there another kind?) on your asses, and say Z's just going through a lull. Seems to me he tends to do this in August. I expect a big September out of him.

27. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:24 PM (#2917153)

It’s nice how the Pirate team talks up Z’s pitch count (which is high, bad), but don’t say a word about Snell’s (which is almost as high, bad).

Feck's sake, Carl, they're about to have their 16th sub-.500 year in a row. If that's what it takes to get 'em through the year...

28. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:25 PM (#2917154)

Great PA from Kosuke. He looks like his March-April self since Lou talked to him.

29. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2917162)

Cash in, Don Geovany.

30. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:27 PM (#2917169)

retro: Chicken, egg. I’m going to suggest something revolutionary. The Pirates’ announcers aren’t bad because the team is so awful. The team is so awful because–

31. SteveM. Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:27 PM (#2917172)

Soto is the man!!!

32. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:27 PM (#2917173)

DA DON

33. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:27 PM (#2917174)

Awesome. Beautiful piece of hitting. Snell missed his spot by about 6 inches toward the plate.

34. Sweet Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:28 PM (#2917176)

Nice. Love that kid.

35. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:28 PM (#2917179)

And the Don leaves a horse's head in Ian Snell's bed. There just aren't any words to describe how enjoyable this team is.

36. SteveM. Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:28 PM (#2917181)

Z comes through again with a big hit. This is such a fun team.

37. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2917183)

Wow, seems like Soto shoulda been toast at the plate. Morgan didn't even throw home. That's a ridiculous streak for Z by the way.

38. Sweet Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2917184)

Love that kid, too.

39. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2917186)

Z extends his RBI streak to 8 starts and his hit streak to 13. Even as he struggles on the mound, he contributes.

40. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2917188)

Sorry, Nutting wrestled me away from the keyboard there. Wonder why. GEO! Z! WHAT A TEAM!

41. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2917190)

I hope not too many were tardy, like Mark DeRosa was on those two fastballs.

Well, Mr Cub fan--how many batting titles has YOUR second baseman won? HMMMMM???

</Pirate announcers>

42. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2917192)

Are Z's hitting/RBI streaks the most unlikely streaks in baseball this year?

43. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2917197)

Z's year at the plate has been something to behold. I wonder how many Pirates out there have more career home runs than Carlos?

44. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2917199)

Z is back to chewing gum recklessly. He knows no fear. They didn’t bat around in the top of the third, but they might now.

45. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2917200)

I think that RBI streak may be a record. Seems to me I heard he tied it his last start.

Think Carlos has a shot at the Silver Slugger this year?

46. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:33 PM (#2917202)

Z is back to chewing gum recklessly.

Well, what the hell--not like he's got any teeth left anyway.

47. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:33 PM (#2917203)

Great inning. Love the walks.

48. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:33 PM (#2917208)

To reference the earlier topic of playoff rotations. I'd damn sure make certain to get Z a start if there was a world series home game. His bat vs. any other pitchers is a huge difference.

49. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2917210)

By the way, I credit that inning to the fact that I'm wearing my Pittsburgh Stogies t-shirt.

50. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2917211)

Think Carlos has a shot at the Silver Slugger this year?

That’s like asking if Geovanny Soto might get some ROY votes. Wasn’t Micah Owings sent down?

51. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2917214)

Well, the Pirate starter lasted 4 innings tonight. Progress. Dare they expect 5 out of Duke tomorrow?

52. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2917219)

Trust me, Carl--I meant that as a rhetorical question with an obvious answer.

Wasn’t Micah Owings sent down?

Traded in the Dunn deal, I believe.

53. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2917221)

But yes, Owings has to stay in the minors for the season, I think.

54. SteveM. Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2917222)

I though he was injured in AAA.

55. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2917223)

I'd damn sure make certain to get Z a start if there was a world series home game. His bat vs. any other pitchers is a huge difference.

My WS rotation would have him starting Game 5 at home. I'm pretty sure he would set Scott Kazmir or John Lackey on tilt with a WS home run. :)

56. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2917224)

Speaking of Soto, who's his competition for ROY? I haven't really been paying attention.

57. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2917229)

That was a horrible pitch to handle, and Geo almost threw him out anyway.

58. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2917230)

Ryan Ludwick?

59. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2917231)

retro: There is none. He’s a mortal lock, so I answered your rhetorical question with an obvious answer.

60. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2917234)

Without checking, I'm pretty sure Ludwick's not a rookie for ROY eligibility purposes.

61. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2917235)

Ludwick’s no rookie.

62. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2917237)

Jair Jurrjens is pretty decent competition for Geo.

63. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2917238)

Schumaker, however, may be awarded the ROY simply because he's far too awesome to be constrained by mere eligibility rules.

64. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2917240)

Speaking of Soto, who's his competition for ROY?

Is Volquez ROY eligible?

65. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2917242)

Well, that sucks. He was on the cusp of getting out of that.

66. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2917244)

I just wish there was any way for a Cub to steal Pujols’ MVP as revenge for ’05. Rivas looked out.

67. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2917246)

Oh, yeah--Volquez. Think he might be.

68. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2917253)

Quick look at the rules says Volquez is not eligible. >45 innings pitched before this year.

69. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2917257)

Volquez had 17 starts and 20 appearances over 3 seasons before this year (80 innings total), so he's probably not eligible.

70. VoodooR Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2917259)

Any chance that Lou lets Z hit for himself in a WS game on the road?

71. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:47 PM (#2917263)

VoodooR, it’s not like he could have Ward DH for Theriot, is it?

72. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:47 PM (#2917264)

Jurrjens is having a nice year. That trade kinda sucked for the Tigers, especially given their pitching problems.

73. Moses Taylor didn't fall far from the awesome tree Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:47 PM (#2917266)

I'm gonna go all Optimistic Moses (is there another kind?) on your asses, and say Z's just going through a lull. Seems to me he tends to do this in August. I expect a big September out of him.

You can teach a really, really, really ####### old a new trick! I knew it!

74. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2917271)

Ludwick’s no rookie.

*Shrug* His previous MLB exploits weren't all that remarkable. :)

I agree with the main point, though. If the Don isn't NL ROY, they should just abandon the award.

75. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2917272)

VoodooR, it’s not like he could have Ward DH for Theriot, is it?

Good question--do you HAVE to DH for the pitcher?

76. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2917274)

You can teach a really, really, really ####### old (???) a new trick! I knew it!

They don't teach direct objects in school anymore, youngster?

77. Moses Taylor didn't fall far from the awesome tree Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2917275)

old DOG. Forgot a word. Damn.

78. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2917283)

Perfect throw, but Lee had a huge jump.

79. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2917287)

Oooh...DLee slid way too late. That could have been awful.

Jurrjens is having a nice year, but Atlanta is crap and no one cares about them, so he won't get much attention. Fair? No. The way it is? Yup.

80. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2917288)

old DOG. Forgot a word. Damn.

That's your youthful exuberance biting you in the ass. Someday way, way, way in the future, you will have a similar level of life experience to guide you through these situations.

81. VoodooR Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2917291)

Good question--do you HAVE to DH for the pitcher?

Yeah, it has to be the pitcher.

82. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2917292)

I don't think Jurrjens should beat Soto out for the ROY anyway, regardless of what Atlanta's doing. Just noting his having a good season. God knows you never hear about him.

83. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2917295)

Better swing Jimmy. You're getting no call here.

84. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2917299)

Besides, Moses--you could interpret my comment on Z as merely an example of my Zambrano fanboyism, in which case it's hardly a new trick.

85. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2917300)

Good question--do you HAVE to DH for the pitcher?

I believe you can DH for any player. If Zambrano were starting, for whom would you DH? Theriot?

86. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2917301)

I don't think Jurrjens should beat Soto out for the ROY anyway

Correct.

87. VoodooR Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2917302)

Or even better: Say it's game 7 of the WS and Z just pitched (and won) game 6. Is there anyone you'd rather have DHing for G7 than a 360/360/600 Zambrano?

88. Carl Spongberg Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2917306)

Soto’s the first ever rookie catcher to start as an NL all star. He’s still raking the ball and one of his pitchers gave him a ringing endorsement a few weeks ago. Jurrjens might have a nice year, but it’s not better than Geo’s year. I don‘t think voting for Geo would be unfair.

89. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2917307)

OK, so I'm wrong. I remember my brother's legion ball team DHing for their shortstop.

90. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2917308)

Clutchy gets that run back.

91. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2917310)

As a RF, Brandon Moss is a real DH.

92. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2917314)

I believe you can DH for any player. If Zambrano were starting, for whom would you DH? Theriot?

You could catch Blanco and DH Soto for him. That would be amusing.

93. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2917317)

Don't take my mention of Jurrjens as an endorsement of him for ROY. Geo definitely should be it, but just sayin Jurrjens has had a real good year.

94. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2917318)

Damn. Nice play by Sanchez to save a run.

95. SteveM. Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2917321)

Ah, Pittsburgh Pirates baseball. They are the Temple of MLB.

96. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2917322)

Don't take my mention of Jurrjens as an endorsement of him for ROY. Geo definitely should be it, but just sayin Jurrjens has had a real good year.

Are you channeling me?

97. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2917324)

Don't take my mention of Jurrjens as an endorsement of him for ROY. Geo definitely should be it, but just sayin Jurrjens has had a real good year.

Ditto.

98. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2917327)

Anyway, I think the consensus here is that Jair Jurrjens has had a good year, but that Geovany Soto is the ROY. Hope I'm not going out on a limb.

99. retro-shiite Posted: August 26, 2008 at 09:00 PM (#2917333)

They are the Temple of MLB.

As in the Temple Owls, not the Baha'i' Temple.

100. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 26, 2008 at 09:00 PM (#2917334)

Brandon Moss almost looks like he's never played baseball before. Which of the LaRoches do you think had to show him how to put on the uniform?

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Chicago Cubs (81-50) @ Pittsburgh Pirates (57-74), Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 7:05pm on WGN

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