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The Reds play fantastic defense.
That's kind of fun.
Imagine if it was a less defensively oriented catcher.
He's an awfully productive hitter. It all depends on the price and the alternatives. They're gonna need a first baseman, and you have to wonder if they're going to be willing to trust one of the kids (or whether they should).
Nice job, Dusty.
Dammit I hate incompetence.
Gym class. I've seen it in gym class.
All he had to do was let Patterson start the AB. Doofus.
No, the umps screwed it up. They should not have permitted Ross to hit. He was out. Patterson was out for failing to bat in his turn.
I don't understand why it takes so long to grasp.
I think that is right, actually. The umps assumed the Mets were challenging Ross for batting out of turn; they were challenging Patterson. Ross was already out; one out. They challenged Patterson -- as the rule book says they must, before the PA started when he came up to bat out of turn as well (just as Ross had). Patterson, too, should have been out. Two outs.
The umps screwed it up.
After Ross made an out, he should have just let Patterson take his turn. No matter what happens in that plate appearances, Willie should inform the umps about the mistake and Patterson will be out.
Oh, come on. Patterson would never take a pitch.
So it's not Willie's fault?
I thought that, too, but the Reds' announcers read from the rule book, which seemed to suggest that you have to challenge the hitter batting out of turn before the first pitch, and he shall be declared out. Now, that may have only been part of the rule -- maybe Willie could have waited. But it certainly permitted Willie to challenge Patterson when he did, if it didn't require it. I think Randolph had every reason to think he could go after the second out by zapping Patterson and save his pitcher some pitches.
Oh, come on. Patterson would never take a pitch.
Now, that's funny.
That seems to be what the umps thought, but I think once Patterson came up to the plate, and was challenged, it was too late for that. Certainly, you can say Willie shouldn't have taken the chance. But if the rule book says you can/should challenge before the first pitch, it contemplates that Patterson counts as the "second hitter" before a pitch is thrown.
Ross was correctly supposed to hit again.
This looks like if he had pitched to Patterson, then the previous hitter would no longer have been out of turn.
The consequence of not speaking up is that the "improper batter" becomes the "proper batter" and the batting order continues from that point. The piece you're missing here is that Patterson would have been the second improper batter.
The correct order is Patterson/Ross/Freel.
When Ross bats out of turn, Randolph (correctly) does nothing unless he gets a hit. If he does, then Randolph erases the hit because Ross was an improper batter and Ross hits again with 1 out like what actually happened.
Once Ross makes an out, he becomes the proper batter if another pitch is thrown, but that means it's Freel's turn at bat. So when Patterson steps into the batter's box, he's also an improper batter. If he makes an out, it doesn't matter. If he gets a hit or walk, Randolph appeals to the umpire, and it's the second out. Freel actually gets the out (he's the proper batter) and Votto hits with 2 outs.
Cox has been horrible this season strategically in the handful of games I have watched him.
"Anyone batting out of turn shall be called out, on appeal, when he fails to bat in his proper turn and another batter completes an at-bat in his place."
Patterson failed to bat in his proper turn, and Ross was the other batter who completed an AB in his place. So he -- Patterson was called out.
Ross, the second hitter, did NOT fail to bat in his proper turn, and another batter did not complete an AB in his place. So he wasn't out.
The part of the rule the Reds' announcers read -- no need to get into it -- isn't applicable or relevant.
Any previous posts on my part exonerating Randolph? Null and void.
"It turns out, I have no idea what I am doing in the dugout."
Sigh.
At least Willie knows what to do now if that happens again.
Correct, as I understand the rule.
That's EXACTLY what happened in the example I cited in 90 (Stanky called "out of order" on his own team).
If only managing with a seven game lead with 17 to go were so easy to learn from . . . .
Let's hope he gets another chance at that this year.
So Ross would make the 1st and 3rd out of the inning. The 1st out would be credited to him because he became the proper leadoff batter when Patterson was pitched to, and the third out would be credited to him because he'd become the proper batter as soon as the first pitch was thrown after Patterson's AB.
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