BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Cincinnati Reds (55-71) @ Chicago Cubs (77-48), Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 8:05pm

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008

Cincinnati Reds (55-71) @ Chicago Cubs (77-48), Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 8:05pm

CIN: Bronson Arroyo (31, RHP, 10-10, 5.51)
CHC: Ted Lilly (32, LHP, 12-6, 4.32)

The Primer Chimp Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 93 comment(s)
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1. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 11:02 AM (#2910008)

Pedal to the metal.

I'll be at this one, though it'll be hard-pressed to surpass last night's. A boring beatdown of Prince Valiant would do just fine.

2. VoodooR Posted: August 20, 2008 at 11:09 AM (#2910015)

A rematch of the game that I was at in July where a young boy got his skull cracked right in front of me and damn near everybody in the Reds lineup homered...

3. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 20, 2008 at 11:24 AM (#2910038)

Come on, Teddy. You need to pick it up so I we don't have to see Marquis in any seven game series the Cubs might play.

4. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 12:00 PM (#2910096)

Well, the wind's supposed to blow in from right today, so I figure the results should be prettier. That was one ugly afternoon, and I only saw it through GameDay.

5. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 12:10 PM (#2910109)

Whenever I see a reference to Lilly as "Teddy" I can't help help but think of this!

The reference is first at the 23rd second mark.

6. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 12:15 PM (#2910123)

Jack, I love ya and all, but I want you to promise me never to link to any more Connie Francis videos in the game chatter.

7. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM (#2910133)

That made me laugh out loud.

8. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 12:23 PM (#2910135)

By the way, I had some incredibly good rye whisky last night, and thought of you. It was Sazerac 18 year rye. Very interesting stuff. I'd never had it before.

9. Moses Taylor didn't fall far from the awesome tree Posted: August 20, 2008 at 12:30 PM (#2910149)

New post in the Cubs blog.

The Reds will have significantly Adam Dunn in tonight's lineup, so I expect the results to be significantly different as well.

10. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 20, 2008 at 12:50 PM (#2910182)

That link was very... Jack Vincennes.

I admit to getting a small amount of pleasure from watching Dusty's team trail along in last.

Is it just me or do the Reds look like they should be a team chasing .500 rather than chasing the Pirates?

11. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 01:06 PM (#2910215)

I don't know, Pops. You'd think with Cueto and Volquez they be somewhere. This team looks very familiar to me. It plays poor fundamental baseball, and seems lethargic. You know why that seems familiar, because that was exactly what the Cubs were like under Dusty Baker.

12. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 01:45 PM (#2910278)

Jack, I am ignorant in the ways of rye whiskey. It's my American provincialism.

13. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 03:15 PM (#2910382)

You sir, need a dry, rye, Manhattan. You'd like this whisky.

Is my estimation of this Reds team off-base?

14. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 03:17 PM (#2910386)

I've always thought of rye whisky as a very midwestern sort of thing.

Don Draper drinks it too.

15. A Surfeit of Peaches Graham (SdeB) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 03:58 PM (#2910436)

"Want some rye? 'Course you do!"

16. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:01 PM (#2910443)

Guys,

Its been so long since I've considered buying 200 level seats are there any that don't suck? I seem to remember the seats in 222 were okay, as well as down the lines line 204-206 and 235-237. Thoughts?

17. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:33 PM (#2910498)

####, Hardy just made it 5-2.

18. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:37 PM (#2910509)

Gagne is in the game. There is still hope here.

19. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:41 PM (#2910520)

The first few rows of 200 don't suck too hard.

20. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:42 PM (#2910521)

Gagne has loaded the bases.

21. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:43 PM (#2910524)

Crap. I jinxed it. Sorry. : (

22. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:45 PM (#2910531)

I can't believe he's still giving Gagne meaningful innings. Lucky for him he was facing the Stros.

23. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:49 PM (#2910542)

And Hunter Pence swung at the first pitch. Who swings at the first pitch vs. Eric ####### Gagne?

24. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 20, 2008 at 04:50 PM (#2910543)

I can't believe he's still giving Gagne meaningful innings.

Kinda justifies Sabathia's rented mule treatment, doesn't it?

25. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:04 PM (#2910561)

Lucky for him he was facing the Stros.

You didn't phrase that properly, its "Playoff Contender 'Strohs."

26. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:21 PM (#2910589)

I'm still feeling good about this race. The Cubs have a schedule the rest of the month that, if utilized, could take a lot of the importance away from those final series with the Brewers at the end of the year.

Some fun, but not-so-important facts:

- The Cubs have 11 more wins than they did at the end of 2006
- They are two wins off from matching their 2005 campaign
- They are eight wins from matching their total from 2007
- They've already won more home games than they did in all of 2007

We always refer to 2006 as the true low point of the franchise in recent years, and while it was, we seem to overlook 2005. True, they only finished four under, but this was originally a team expected to compete. Probably the most frustrating part of that year was watching Lee have a career year utterly wasted with the likes of Patterson and Neifi "setting the table."

27. Stevens Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:33 PM (#2910610)

Heading to the game tonight too. If they served it at Wrigley, I'd drink rye whiskey. I'll drink Old Style at Wrigley, though, so clearly my ballgame standards aren't that high.

Here's hoping DeRosa and Lee continue their historical success against Arroyo and that Ramirez and Soriano better their career numbers. Ted Lilly, despite small sample sizes, should beware Votto and Encarnacion.

Also, this will be the first Cubs/Reds game I've attended where Adam Dunn will not hit a homer.

28. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:35 PM (#2910612)

You sir, need a dry, rye, Manhattan. You'd like this whisky.

Well, perhaps you'll need to sherpa me through the ways of rye Manhattans when you come down here. I'd say a trip to Delilah's is in order.

29. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:36 PM (#2910613)

"Playoff Contender 'Strohs."

Dude--Strohs wasn't even a contender for the prestigious Best Pisswater Beer award.

30. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:36 PM (#2910614)

Stevens, where are your seats? I'm in my usual perch in 528, row 5. I'll be wearing my "W" flag shirt.

31. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:38 PM (#2910615)

I'll second SouthSideRyan on the 200 level seats--anything more than about 10 rows deep and you start getting into the mezzanine suites blocking your view so you can't see the scoreboard. It's like watching a widescreen DVD on a non-widescreen TV, with the black bars taking up a third of your field of vision.

32. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:51 PM (#2910624)

I would be happy to walk you down the path of rye whisky, good Sir. Its probably not going to be Labour Day weekend, however. We've scaled back our travel plans (and proposed monetary layout). We are going to surgical strike Sunday only for the game and return. Jill is committed to playoff tickets (regardless of cost) so dollars saved now mean a larger payoff later. If the Cubs do their part...

33. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 05:54 PM (#2910627)

That doesn't mean we won't be available for a beer before the game, though!

34. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 06:00 PM (#2910634)

Well, keep me posted.

35. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: August 20, 2008 at 06:12 PM (#2910640)

The Cubs traded for Harden three days after he reached 5 years service time. That means he can demand a trade after the season and the Cubs must do so or allow him to become a free agent. Otherwise, they could pick up the option on his contract free and clear. (They still can do so, but only if he doesn't want to be traded).

Demanding and receiving a trade would tie Harden to the new team through 2011. Which is to say there is no possiblity of such a thing happening and that it should be given absolutely no consideration when evaluating the merits of the trade.

36. retro-shiite Posted: August 20, 2008 at 06:42 PM (#2910662)

That's somewhat reassuring, Maddux--thanks for the info. I'd heard conflicting accounts on what his options all mean.

37. Mayonnaise Savant (DTM) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 07:12 PM (#2910686)

Josh Fogg will replace Aaron Harang for tomorrow's game due to neck spasms.

38. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:02 PM (#2910812)

Harang hasn't been the same since Dusty used him for a couple innings in that extra-inning affair in San Diego earlier this year.

39. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2910832)

Lilly tends to be in the strike zone (albeit hittable) and the Reds are free-swingers. Unless we put up 17 on Axl and the Bad News Bullpen, it should be another quick game tonight.

(Someone be sure to repost this at 11 PM during the 8th inning of the 12-10 freakshow that is sure to occur now.)

40. Mayonnaise Savant (DTM) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:16 PM (#2910839)

Harang hasn't been the same since Dusty used him for a couple innings in that extra-inning affair in San Diego earlier this year.

52 ER in 53.2 IP. Wow.

41. SteveM. Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2910840)

I hate when games are on WCIU because that means EI will only have the Reds broadcast. Thom Brennenman and Jeff Brantley-woohoo.

42. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2910858)

I kind of like Brantley. He's ####### who isn't afraid to hurt feelings, but he's not such a crusty kook about it like Thom's papa is.

43. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:25 PM (#2910861)

I can't remember if I prefaced that censored bit with "an." If not, well there you go.

44. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:27 PM (#2910865)

15 game road trip? Geez. When this trip costs the Twins the division title, the Republicans can forget about any chance of taking Minnesota this November.

45. SteveM. Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:28 PM (#2910867)

That was an ugly way to get a run, but I will take it.

46. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2910881)

DeRo's .400 average vs. the Reds is damn impressive. Then again, with the flammable pitching staffs the Reds have thrown out there for the last few seasons, I'd be surprised if there weren't a few NL hitters that have hit .400 vs. Cincy.

47. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2910892)

Isn't Cincy the team that DeClutchyclutch had 2 5 hit games against last year?

48. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2910894)

SSR- yup. Including that game where hit #5 was that GW hit that deflected/scooted past David Weathers.

49. Mayonnaise Savant (DTM) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2910896)

Isn't Cincy the team that DeClutchyclutch had 2 5 hit games against last year?

Yep, August 16th and September 17th.

50. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2910901)

16 inch calls my name, hopefully Bob Howry will be in sealing up a 10 run win when I get back.

51. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2910911)

Boy, the Reds must feel about DeRo the way we feel about Carlos Lee: "That ###### makes ridiculous plays he shouldn't make against us, and he's always ####### at-bat!"

52. isaacc7 Posted: August 20, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2910934)

Gameday is making the homeplate ump look really erratic. How's the strike zone look to those of you with video?

53. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2910954)

Isacc- It's a pretty big zone in height, but he's not calling the corners. If either pitcher can get it over the plate, they can pretty much get a strike call letters to knees.

(Anecdotal evidence. YMMV.)

54. Mayonnaise Savant (DTM) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2910963)

52 pitches, 1 walk,5 strikeouts through 4 innings for Lilly. Does he look that good, or is Cincinnati just that hacktastic?

55. Mayonnaise Savant (DTM) Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2910966)

Oops, 54 pitches through 4 innings, not 52.

56. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:10 PM (#2910977)

Touching again on the team MVP issue discussed in the latest blog, I really think DeRo's it. Soto's been a huge plus, but DeRosa's been an unsung hero almost all season. He's actually posted comparable offensive numbers to Derrek Lee and his versatility on defense has been a blessing. Let's not forget this is a guy who the team was ready to toss to the bench if they were able to get Roberts during the off-season.

57. VoodooR Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#2910983)

I'm not sure I'm down with batting Geo "MVP" Soto 8th...

/minor quibbles

58. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#2910984)

Arroyo's just going to drill DeRo next time up to save the time and energy. (If Bronson is still around, that is.)

59. VoodooR Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:15 PM (#2910990)

DeRosa might be the biggest surprise or the person whose value has most exceeded what was expected, but he's hardly our MVP. Including pitchers, he wouldn't even crack the top five.

60. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:18 PM (#2911005)

Walks- regarding MVP, my dad (a Sox fan) and I had a discussion last night about the Cubs. He said one of the most remarkable things about our team is our depth; he opined that basically we're injury-proof unless a catastrophic wave of them hit us all at once. We could lose Zambrano, or Dempster, or Lee, or Ramirez (etc.) and, yeah, it would hurt, but it wouldn't KILL us the way DLee's injury did in '06.

We also came to the conclusion that the only exception to that "one-of" injury case would be the Don. If he got hurt we'd be in all sorts of trouble. The thought of making an October run with Blanco/Hill doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies.

I think then, in the classical sense of "valuable", that Soto is our MVP for this year.

61. Giantandre Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:21 PM (#2911012)

Glad to know some of you guys drink the high class stuff.... by the way Old Style is nasty, if I wasn't a Cub fan I'd never drink it ... Does WGN even televise baseball anymore or am I chained to my computer from now on

62. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:24 PM (#2911021)

This is sick. The Reds are like '06 Cubs bad at the plate right now. Absolutely hacktastic. Getting 1-hit by Mr. Roboto last night is understandable, but no hits off Lilly through 5? He's more magician than dominator.

63. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:26 PM (#2911024)

I didn't even realize the Reds hadn't gotten a hit. That means we're an inning away from ESPN breaking in and jinxing it.

64. isaacc7 Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:33 PM (#2911036)

Hmm, I thought I saw a couple of weird things strikezone-wise on Gameday. Some things right in the middle of the plate thigh high that are balls and some things way off the plate as called strikes. I guess it wouldn't be unheard of if Gameday was not all that accurate...

65. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:34 PM (#2911037)

Well, that ends that. The offense needs to wake up at some point.

66. isaacc7 Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:34 PM (#2911039)

Gah, you guys had to break the spell...

67. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:36 PM (#2911043)

Gah, you guys had to break the spell...

Bah. Len said it too. :)

68. VoodooR Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:41 PM (#2911048)

We could lose Zambrano, or Dempster, or Lee, or Ramirez (etc.) and, yeah, it would hurt, but it wouldn't KILL us

I see your larger point, and I know he's been down a little bit the last couple starts, but I really think that if we lose Z for any reason, we're f*cked. I'm biased, because I absolutely love the guy and can't wait to see him all jacked up for a big Game Six or Game Seven start.

69. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:41 PM (#2911049)

That wild pitch hurts.

70. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:41 PM (#2911050)

Alan Trammel taught DeRo that one. What a play!

71. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:45 PM (#2911052)

This game's gotten far too interesting far too quickly. I do fully expect Phillips to swing at some #### again and hit a little topper to 3rd, but still....

72. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:56 PM (#2911057)

Yikes.

73. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:57 PM (#2911059)

Well, we don't pay Soriano to field.

(Looks at "1" on scoreboard.)

What are we paying him for tonight?

74. Andere HUSSEIN Richtingen, Socialist Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:58 PM (#2911061)

Evening folks.

Just finished a bit of Peach Melba Kopp's Custard, and it's time for one more K from Lilly.

75. Giantandre Posted: August 20, 2008 at 09:59 PM (#2911062)

Someday I'm gonna have to have a frozen custard .... and a butter burger

76. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:00 PM (#2911063)

Just no reason for that to be the go-ahead run. God.

77. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:00 PM (#2911064)

Let's get some runs!

Ha! I like the backwards countdown. Very clever.

78. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:04 PM (#2911068)

DeRo leading off, huh? Game tying homer?

79. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:05 PM (#2911069)

Fukudome's pissing me off tonight.

80. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:07 PM (#2911071)

This is where I'd like to see Micah.

81. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:08 PM (#2911072)

This is where I'd like to see Micah.

Yes! Despite the occasional fluke homerun, Ward doesn't tend to hit for power. This is the reason to have a hitter with consistent doubles power.

82. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:09 PM (#2911073)

Pinch hitter off the bench, I mean.

Mikey! :(

83. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:09 PM (#2911074)

I'm gonna go cook. Maybe the Cub offense can pull its collective head out of its collective ass by time I get back.

84. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:21 PM (#2911082)

Hmm. Well, we do have a line of guys coming up who can all hit a home run off a fastball pitcher. Gotta keep it right here, Go-Dan.

85. VoodooR Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:21 PM (#2911083)

Very frustrating 8th inning.

86. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:23 PM (#2911085)

Or BPJ.

Yeah, go ahead. Go 2. Try it. I dare you.

87. Bunny Vincennes Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:26 PM (#2911090)

Are you ####### kidding me? They are losing tonight?

88. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:28 PM (#2911095)

Wow. DeRo again. If he doesn't somehow tie it up/win it in the bottom of the 9th I'll be shocked.

89. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:31 PM (#2911097)

80 H/W in 54 IP for Cordero? That's terrible for a closer.

90. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:35 PM (#2911099)

This is gonna be a tough one to swallow. A few chances to get at least one and the offense #### the bed.

91. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:37 PM (#2911102)

80 H/W in 54 IP for Cordero? That's terrible for a closer.

Yes and the Cubs just made him look like Gagne circa 2003. What a shitty game.

92. I can out-debate Joe Biden; Nieporent said so Posted: August 20, 2008 at 10:37 PM (#2911103)

Yeesh. Oh, well, tomorrow is another day. Strange to only be 6-5 against the Reds this year. Is that right?

93. retro-shiite Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:42 AM (#2911185)

I hate when the Cub offense goes AWOL against pedestrian pitchers whose stuff couldn't dent bread. Watching them flail away at Arroyo reminded me of their "performance" against Livan Hernandez in last year's playoffs.

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Cincinnati Reds (55-71) @ Chicago Cubs (77-48), Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 8:05pm

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