BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: New York Mets (42-44) @ Philadelphia Phillies (48-39), Saturday, July 5, 2008, 7:05pm

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Saturday, July 05, 2008

New York Mets (42-44) @ Philadelphia Phillies (48-39), Saturday, July 5, 2008, 7:05pm

NYM: John Maine (27, RHP, 8-6, 3.86)
PHI: Jamie Moyer (45, LHP, 7-6, 4.13)

The Primer Chimp Posted: July 05, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 299 comment(s)
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1. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:39 PM (#2844207)

The story between these two teams has been the bullpens.

In the last 21 game the two teams have played, the Phillies have scored 98 runs and the Mets 86. But the Phillies have won two thirds of those games, going 14-7. Some other numbers:

The Phillies pen has thrown 79.3 IP and allowed 19 runs, which is a RA of 2.15. And if you remember, the Mets had that one huge game off the Philly pen where they lost anyway; they scored 7 runs in 5.3 IP, in the other 20 games the Philly pen has thrown 74 IP and allowed 12 runs, which is an RA of 1.46. The Mets pen, on the other hand, has thrown 65.3 IP and allowed 51 runs, for an RA of 7.01. As I mentioned, the Phillies pen has allowed 19 runs over that stretch; the Mets pen has allowed 15 HR. The Phillies pen has allowed 4 HR; the Mets pen has hit 4 batters. The Mets pen has allowed a HR to every 20 batters.

Assuming my math is right, the Phillies have allowed a 205 BABIP over these 21 games, the Mets 277. The Mets BABIP isn't that bad, but it doesn't matter all that much when you give up 15 HR in 65 IP. The Philly pen has walked 11% of hitters and K'd 18%, the Mets have walked 12.7% and K'd 21%.

2. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 02:31 PM (#2844243)

Mets suck.

3. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 06:45 PM (#2844674)

SS Jose Reyes
RF Ryan Church
3B David Wright
CF Carlos Beltran
2B Damion Easley
1B Carlos Delgado
C Ramon Castro
LF Chris Aguila
RP John Maine

4. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:04 PM (#2844763)

I'd rather have Endy in the lineup than Aguila.

5. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:07 PM (#2844767)

Look, we're 2 games under .500!

6. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:09 PM (#2844768)

Woohoo!

Maybe we can get a run without a double play!

7. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:09 PM (#2844770)

Church batting second? What happened?

8. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:10 PM (#2844771)

Moyer should walk right. The Mets won't score if he does that.

9. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:10 PM (#2844772)

walk *Wright*. Dang.

10. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:11 PM (#2844773)

That was unsurprising.

11. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:11 PM (#2844774)

Maybe we can get a run without a double play!

I'm holding you responsible for that.

12. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:11 PM (#2844776)

Holy jesus, dick heads I was just kidding.

13. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:12 PM (#2844777)

unbelievable

14. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:13 PM (#2844779)

I find it somewhat amusing that Jimmy Rollins is talking about how Reyes needs to mature to get the most out of his tools. Rollins has been a disappointment if anything considering his tools.

15. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:14 PM (#2844780)

That's Jimmy "MVP" Rollins to you, Russlan.

16. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:17 PM (#2844783)

He's a leader. For that reason, he's allowed to express this excre... I mean, wisdom.

17. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:18 PM (#2844784)

If I were Reyes I'd demand a trade to the AL west to get out of this ####### zoo of a coast.

18. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:21 PM (#2844787)

I'd sure like that Rich Harden feller.

19. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:25 PM (#2844790)

I'm not sure if you are serious, but we'd need a hell of a lot more than Harden.

20. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:25 PM (#2844791)

Actually, the Phillies announcers are really good and have been awfully complimentary of Reyes. The announcer (not Kalas) just said that Reyes is the best player in the league when not distracted. That's not true for two reasons. He isn't the best player in baseball and he isn't a headcase.

Reyes might have too many tools. People see his natural ability and have unrealistic expectations of him.

21. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:27 PM (#2844794)

I'm not sure if you are serious, but we'd need a hell of a lot more than Harden.

Really? I'd do that trade straight up!

22. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2844795)

Really? I'd do that trade straight up!

You are not being serious.

23. Chris Dial Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:31 PM (#2844799)

I think John Maine is just terrific. He's going to be HUGE the next few years.

24. Chris Dial Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:32 PM (#2844800)

Really? I'd do that trade straight up!

Reyes for Harden? Wow, I'd rather have Minaya then.

25. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:33 PM (#2844802)

I wouldn't trade Reyes for any pitcher in baseball. Those guys might have more of a positive impact when healthy but are one injury away from being useless. In Reyes' worst years, he is going to 50 runs above average (offense+defense).

26. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:34 PM (#2844804)

I think Harden is a FA this offseason.

27. Chris Dial Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:34 PM (#2844805)

I might have traded Reyes for Santana. Uh, no I wouldn't.

28. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:36 PM (#2844808)

I think Harden is a FA this offseason.

29. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:38 PM (#2844810)

Harden won't be a free agent next season as the A's have an option.

Reyes has an 8-run VORP advantage on Harden this season and this is one of Harden's healthy seasons.

30. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:38 PM (#2844811)

In Reyes' worst years, he is going to 50 runs above average (offense+defense).

Even last year he was about equal to a certain MVP shortstop that was mentioned earlier.

31. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:39 PM (#2844812)

Not after we sign him to a 6 year/100MM contract.

32. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:40 PM (#2844813)

Nice slider to Coste there.

33. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:41 PM (#2844814)

I might trade Reyes for Felix. If Flores, Tejada, or Havens establish themselves at AA, then I might pull the trigger.

34. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:42 PM (#2844816)

Aguilia look better with his range on that play.

35. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:43 PM (#2844817)

That's some purdy pitchin.

36. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:43 PM (#2844818)

Man the Orioles really missed on Maine, huh?

37. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:44 PM (#2844819)

This game is moving along at a nice clip.

38. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:46 PM (#2844823)

Church has a pretty swing.

39. Alan S Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:46 PM (#2844824)

I wouldn't trade Reyes for any pitcher in baseball.

But Chris Russo said he wouldn't trade Lincecum for Reyes AND Wright. Are you questioning his wisdom?

Also, Harden has a $7 million option for next year that I would assume will be picked up by whatever team has him at the end of the year.

40. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:47 PM (#2844825)

Did Russo really say that?

Thats awesome. I guess its better he talk about that than the length of lines in the new Yankee stadium.

41. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:48 PM (#2844826)

Anytime you wanna get a hit, Beltran, go ahead.

42. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2844827)

Keith wants to hit Wright 5th? Really Keith?

43. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2844828)

Manuel joking with Reyes. That didn't happen with Willie.

44. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2844829)

But Chris Russo said he wouldn't trade Lincecum for Reyes AND Wright.

If his other material is as good as this, he should try his hand at standup.

45. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2844830)

It was funny, I plugged in the Mets hitters into the lineup analyzer on baseball musings and all top 25 Met lineups had Castillo hit first and Reyes usually like 5th. Obviously doesn't account for speed or anything.

46. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:51 PM (#2844831)

DWright! Okay, just need a run this inning.

47. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:51 PM (#2844832)

Keith wants to hit Wright 5th? Really Keith?

If Church is going to hit second you need to make room for Easley or Chavez at the top of the order.

48. Alan S Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:51 PM (#2844834)

In Russo's defense, the Giants left side of the infield is pretty solid.

49. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:52 PM (#2844835)

We won't score this inning.

50. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2844836)

Thanks Ryan.

51. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2844837)

Reyes really isn't a leadoff hitter, IMO. His mentality is more like that of a middle of the lineup hitter.
Slappy has the approach of someone with leadoff skills.

Beltran!

52. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2844838)

Chavez and Castillo are wasted hitting eighth.

Howard is FAIL at defense.

53. Alan S Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2844839)

We will as long as we don't actually have to put the ball in play!

54. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2844840)

Well we wouldn't have without that.

Can we score a legitimate run this series? We haven't scored a run on a hit yet.

55. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2844841)

Man, Ryan Howard has some extreme skills and liabilities.

56. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2844842)

The Mets have three runs this series and still haven't had a run-scoring hit.

57. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2844843)

I agree on Reyes, he has a decent OBP but he is slugging like 480. But with his speed what are the odds anyone hits him 5th in a lineup?

Is that a DP if the infielders are pinching for a DP? I may have been right.

58. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2844844)

EASLEY! Huge hit.

A couple more and we should be solid.

59. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2844845)

Easley!

60. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:55 PM (#2844846)

I do love that Manuel is playing Castro more.

61. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2844847)

A couple of dozen more and we should be solid.

62. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:57 PM (#2844849)

A couple more and we should be solid.

What team have you been following?

63. Alan S Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#2844850)

I also love that Easley is getting a lot of ABs at 2B against lefties. That's the only way he's useful. Willie seemed to think he was a LF with no platoon splits.

64. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 07:59 PM (#2844852)

Reyes would be a waste in the fifth spot. Sign a Tex or a Dunn and go Reyes/Beltran/Wright/(Slugger)/Church.

65. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:00 PM (#2844853)

The problem with Easley is that Castillo is a better hitter as a righty too. It doesn't matter now that Luis is on the DL but those two aren't a great fit. I was in favor of a job sharing arrangement at second between Gotay and Castillo where Gotay could play some of the time against righties and give Castillo some righties and the lefties.

66. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:00 PM (#2844854)

I don't think the Mets are getting either of those guys.

67. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2844856)

No, Maine. That's not smart. 0-2 count and Utley up next? You can't hit him there.

68. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:02 PM (#2844858)

Maine is pulling a Maine. Cruising along, hits Victorino on 0-2 and is now 3-0 to Utley.

69. Alan S Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:03 PM (#2844863)

You're right, Conor, but even when healthy, Castillo should get a lot of rest. And even if it's not the perfect arrangement, Easley at second in the right spots at least isn't a big drag on the team. Used the way Willie used him, he was harmful.

70. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2844864)

I don't disagree with you; just Easley isn't a great fit on a team with Castillo at second.

Come on Maine.

71. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2844865)

Well, here goes the lead.

72. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2844866)

Maine, you are losing subscribers to your newsletter.

THROW STRIKES!

73. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:05 PM (#2844868)

I don't have a good feeling here.

74. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2844869)

Minaya made a mistake signing both Easley and Marlon after he decided to keep Castillo.

75. Alan S Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2844870)

Sigh.

76. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2844872)

Stupid feelings.

77. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2844873)

My brain hurts.

78. Joshemy Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2844874)

I hate this ballpark. That was nothing.

79. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2844875)

Terrible job by Maine.

80. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2844876)

Ugh.

81. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:07 PM (#2844877)

That was a Ollie-like implosion.

82. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:09 PM (#2844880)

There's guys you have to get. 0-2 to Victorino, you have to get him in that situation. You have to.

83. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2844882)

At the very least, you have to make him hit his way on.

84. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2844883)

I hate Aguila already.

85. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2844884)

The radio guys aren't righteous like Keith or Gary, but they are unable to hide their frustration at all this crap.

86. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2844891)

OK, I love Reyes, but we need Jerry to literally pull out his knife and tell him he's going to cut him the next time he swings at the first pitch and pops up.

87. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2844893)

Is it me, or have the Mets this season lost an inordinate amount of games in which they had a lead.

88. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2844897)

Innings like the fourth are what keeps Maine from being a top of the line starter.

89. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:18 PM (#2844900)

I honestly don't think the Mets have any chance of winning this game.

90. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:19 PM (#2844904)

Agreed.

91. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:20 PM (#2844905)

Actually, I know they have a chance but don't feel they do.

92. Raskolnikov Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:20 PM (#2844907)

I think we still have the edge. But another loss would be devastating.

93. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2844909)

You just can't walk the pitcher Maine.

94. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:27 PM (#2844911)

It would be wise for the Mets to score in this inning because the Phils likely will.

95. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2844914)

We've played 25 games against Philly since the start of last year; I count 18 have been decided by 3 runs or less. Seems like a lot, anyone know the normal %? 7 1 run games, 7 2 run games, 4 3 run games. We seem to always play them in close games and find a way to lose.

96. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2844915)

Beltran should steal.

97. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:33 PM (#2844918)

But then Moyer will pitch around Delgado!

98. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2844919)

So we've scored 5 runs in the last 15 innings, and only one of them has been on a hit. Fabulous.

99. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2844921)

The Phillies are going to take the lead this inning.

100. Conor Posted: July 05, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2844924)

Agreed Russlan. He's gonna walk Victorino.

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New York Mets (42-44) @ Philadelphia Phillies (48-39), Saturday, July 5, 2008, 7:05pm

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