BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: New York Mets (51-44) @ Cincinnati Reds (46-50), Thursday, July 17, 2008, 7:10pm

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Thursday, July 17, 2008

New York Mets (51-44) @ Cincinnati Reds (46-50), Thursday, July 17, 2008, 7:10pm

NYM: Johan Santana (29, LHP, 8-7, 2.84)
CIN: Johnny Cueto (22, RHP, 7-9, 4.67)

The Primer Chimp Posted: July 17, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 368 comment(s)
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1. Hey, it's what Johan uses (Matt) Posted: July 17, 2008 at 03:57 PM (#2862501)

The last time the Mets won 10 in a row, this was the starting lineup:

G Templeton 1B
K Elster SS
G Jefferies 2B
K McReynolds LF
H Johnson 3B
H Brooks RF
M Carreon CF-RF
R Cerone C
D Cone P

2. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 04:39 PM (#2862563)

It's pretty amazing that if they win today, they'll be tied for first considering they were 5.5 games less than two weeks ago.

3. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 05:52 PM (#2862632)

What's scary about that line-up in # 1 is how few of those guys I have any real fondness for as ex-Mets. HoJo, and Cone. Hubie Brooks a little bit, for his contributions to the turn-around year of 1984. That's it. Jefferies was a misfit, victim of his own strangeness and a toxic clubhouse. The rest of 'em? Good riddance when they left, and mostly didn't like 'em when they were Mets. What a motley clubhouse they put together back then . . . . Blech.

4. Hey, it's what Johan uses (Matt) Posted: July 17, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#2862665)

This is good, they're being smart:

Pedro Martinez received a shot of anti-inflammatory medication in New York today to address his groin issue and has been scratched from Sunday’s start. He’s scheduled to join the team in time to try a bullpen session Saturday. If that goes well, he may pitch Tuesday against the Phillies. Otherwise, the Mets can take advantage of Monday’s off-day and use four starters for another turn through the rotation. Mike Pelfrey starts Sunday against the Reds.

5. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 06:46 PM (#2862689)

What else is new? If it wasn't for 2005, he'd be the Mets Carl Pavano.

6. Hey, it's what Johan uses (Matt) Posted: July 17, 2008 at 06:49 PM (#2862691)

Blanton to the Phillies.

7. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2862695)

I'm frightened.

Who did the A's get?

8. Hey, it's what Johan uses (Matt) Posted: July 17, 2008 at 06:57 PM (#2862699)

Three minor leaguers...haven't heard who yet.

9. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2862702)

Blanton to the Phillies.

If the Phils gave up several of their very few prospects (their system is worse than the Mets) for a pitcher currently sporting a 77 ERA+ on the season, I'll be content. I expected them to go seriously after Bedard or Burnett so Joe Blanton in a Phillies uni isn't the worst thing in the world.

10. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:01 PM (#2862706)

CBP is far less forgiving than McAfee. Plus, the offenses in the NL East are loads better than the AL West.

Great trade for Philly! Who did they give up?

11. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:03 PM (#2862708)

77 ERA+ or not, Blanton is still a significant true-talent upgrade for them, in the area in which the Mets had the biggest advantage, the rotation. That's a solid move for the Phillies, IMHO.

12. Hey, it's what Johan uses (Matt) Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:05 PM (#2862714)

Whoa. Bad move for the Phillies.

The Athletics get second baseman Adrian Cardenas, pitcher Josh Outman and outfielder Matthew Spencer, all minor leaguers.

13. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:06 PM (#2862715)

He'll be lucky to keep that 77 ERA+.

14. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:07 PM (#2862717)

The Athletics get second baseman Adrian Cardenas, pitcher Josh Outman and outfielder Matthew Spencer, all minor leaguers.

HAHAHAHA! That's awesome.

15. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:08 PM (#2862720)

Kind of sucks that Pedro isn't pitching Sunday because it ruins a pretty sweet matchup. Volquez vs. Pedro. Cy Young vs. Cy Old. The future meets the past.

I love Pedro as much as anyone but he's the Mets 5th starter right now and Vargas and Duque (who is pitching in Binghamton today) are more than reasonable replacements.

16. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:10 PM (#2862724)

Wow. In BA's pre-season rankings, Cardenas was ranked the Phillies' # 2 prospect (and was playing very well in the FSL), and Outman their # 4 (and he sure looks to have been pitching well in AA). I know their system sucks, but that's a heck of a price to pay for Blanton. Good move from a purely short-term perspective, terrible move from anything else.

17. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:11 PM (#2862725)

Is Outman anything special? Cardenas is the only name in the deal I recognize.

18. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:11 PM (#2862726)

77 ERA+ or not, Blanton is still a significant true-talent upgrade for them, in the area in which the Mets had the biggest advantage, the rotation. That's a solid move for the Phillies, IMHO.

If the Mets did the same move, you'd be ticked. They traded one of the few minor leaguers with significant upside.

Blanton is better than a 77 ERA+. He does have a career 100 ERA+ and he is an upgrade but not as big an upgrade as I was fearing they'd get in the second half.

19. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:12 PM (#2862727)

Blanton is also under control through 2010.

20. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:13 PM (#2862728)

I think a guy like Blanton who is consistently decent is a better fit for the Phillies with their offense than a guy like Burnett who's either lights out or lit up.

21. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:15 PM (#2862733)

If the Mets did the same move, you'd be ticked. They traded one of the few minor leaguers with significant upside.

Two things. First, when I look at a Phillies' deal, I think about how it affects the pennant race this year, not how it affects the 2011 Phillies. It's just a different perspective. Blanton helps the 2008 Phillies, in an area of BIG weakness for them right now.

But second, as I clarified once I saw the price, that is not a good deal for the Phillies, and I'd be unhappy if I were a Phillies' fan.

That was some nasty stuff Cueto was throwing. Ouch.

22. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:16 PM (#2862735)

Blanton is better than a 77 ERA+.

Only in McAfee. In CBP, I expect an ERA over 5, especially considering his road splits.

He's helped enormously by the A's defense and park.

23. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:16 PM (#2862736)

I think a guy like Blanton who is consistently decent is a better fit for the Phillies with their offense than a guy like Burnett who's either lights out or lit up.

I disagree that Burnett gets lit up more often than Blanton. Blanton is the worse pitcher but more likely to stay healthy. That has value especially during a full season but not as much for a deadline deal.

24. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:17 PM (#2862737)

To be fair, Wright has looked overmatched a lot for a supposedly great player.

25. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:19 PM (#2862739)

Well, if Blanton is really down to only being a ~80 ERA+ true talent level pitcher, then the Phillies got ripped off. But if he can get back to a 100 ERA+ guy for them, I don't think it's a bad deal.

26. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:23 PM (#2862743)

Gotta love the shift. Nice play, Reyes.

27. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:26 PM (#2862749)

Who is this guy and why is he pitching like Tom ####### Seaver?

28. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:27 PM (#2862752)

Cueto is dealing.

29. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2862754)

Cueto is very good when he's on.

So Easley is batting ahead of Delgado even vs RHP now?

30. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2862757)

That slider to Easley was filthy.

31. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2862756)

So Easley is batting ahead of Delgado even vs RHP now?

Delgado has been hot in the six spot the last few weeks.

32. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2862758)

Don't be fooled by Cueto's mediocre numbers; the awesome stuff he's showing here is for real. He does this for a few innings at a time in some of his starts and it's pretty amazing. Consistency is his issue, though.

33. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:29 PM (#2862760)

Seaver's consecutive K record is safe.

34. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:31 PM (#2862764)

Another thing that might explain the strikeouts is the sun. The Red announcers mentioned that.

Delgado seeing the ball well.

35. Swoboda is freedom Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:31 PM (#2862766)

Seaver's consecutive K record is safe.

I was at that game. I fell asleep and don't remember it, but my older brother will constantly remind me about it.

36. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:31 PM (#2862767)

Wow, did Tatis crush that ball. Foul, unfortunately. But what a shot.

37. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:32 PM (#2862768)

Tatis swings hard.

38. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:32 PM (#2862769)

Time to deliver, Paperboy.

39. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:34 PM (#2862776)

It's sad when your warning track power doesn't even reach the warning track. That's Schneider for you.

40. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:36 PM (#2862781)

Duque's start doesn't begin well. 2 hits, 2 walks, 2 runs in the first. He did strike out one.

41. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:38 PM (#2862784)

Sounds like a Pedro start!

42. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:41 PM (#2862786)

Throw strikes, #######, before I throw you under a bus.

43. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:42 PM (#2862788)

Sounds like a Pedro start!

Don't hate. He does have a 1.93 ERA in his last two starts.

44. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:47 PM (#2862792)

El Duque was pulled after one inning.

Also vaguely familiar...

45. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2862794)

Duque left his start after one inning. Hurt?

46. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2862797)

89 MPH FB from Santana. I can't wait for years five and six on this deal.

47. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:51 PM (#2862798)

This inning is taking forver.

48. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:52 PM (#2862799)

After twenty billion pitches, he walks Ross.

I'm calling an oppo Grand Slam here.

49. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2862801)

I hated that. Go after Ross, don't nibble because the pitcher's on deck. Geez. It's Dave Ross, for goodness sakes.

50. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2862802)

Here comes the GS from the pitcher.

51. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:55 PM (#2862805)

YOU'RE SOOOO COOOL, JOHAN.

52. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:55 PM (#2862806)

That was a damned long inning.

53. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2862808)

YOU'RE SOOOO COOOL, JOHAN.

You must have been suicidal during the collapse.

54. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:57 PM (#2862810)

49 pitches through 2 1-hit innings?

55. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#2862812)

You must have been suicidal during the collapse.

You don't know what you're talking about. I saw it coming in late August. I dealt with it alright. Lots of lithium and booze.

56. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2862815)

Congrats on your 79 pitch shutout, Cueto.

57. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2862816)

Way to make him work and let Johan rest, line-up. Not.

58. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2862817)

Santana today resembles a left-handed Daisuke Matsuzaka.

59. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2862818)

See what Cueto did, Johan? That is supposed to be you.

60. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:02 PM (#2862819)

I love the potential of this Reds team, especially if Bailey can live up to his hype even partially.

61. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:03 PM (#2862821)

I wouldn't give two pennies for Homer Bailey.

62. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2862822)

This Reds' team has some nice parts, Russlan, but I don't see them assembling anything resembling a contending pitching staff. They are far away from that.

63. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2862823)

I wouldn't give two pennies for Homer Bailey.

A lot of people were saying the same thing about Pelfrey just two months ago.

64. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:05 PM (#2862825)

This Reds' team has some nice parts, Russlan, but I don't see them assembling anything resembling a contending pitching staff. They are far away from that.

Really? Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, and Bailey isn't a bad quintet, IMHO.

65. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2862826)

Pelfrey has much better stuff than Bailey.

Also, Pelfrey didn't get jacked by C.C. Sabathia. I admit, that did alter my opinion slightly.

66. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2862827)

Keep hitting it to that guy, Reds. I can assure you he'll keep catching it.

67. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2862828)

I don't see them assembling anything resembling a contending pitching staff. They are far away from that.

Actually their problem is quite different. Their hitting isn't that great and their best hitters are their worst defenders.

I wouldn't mind a staff of Harang/Volquez/Cueto/Bailey/Arroyo. Last year, the bullpen was their biggest problem, and thats partially fixed now.

68. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:08 PM (#2862831)

Pay no attention to the line drives and long fly balls. You're dominating, Johan! Its the offense's fault.

69. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:09 PM (#2862835)

By the time the kids (Volquez, Cueto, Bailey) reach their potential -- if they do -- do you really think Harang and Arroyo will still be around? And even if they are, both are now on the other side of 30 -- will they still be good when the kids are all right? When you are a mid-market team like the Reds, you have to time it right, and I would be very surprised if they hit this right.

70. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:09 PM (#2862836)

Thole went 2-3 with two doubles today. .301/.385/.431 is a pretty nice line for a 21 year old catcher in the FSL. I wonder how he is defensively.

71. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2862838)

Great AB, David.

72. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2862839)

The Mets don't look like they are very interested in scoring runs.

73. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:13 PM (#2862842)

My kingdom for an RBI!

74. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:13 PM (#2862843)

Homefield advantage should be based on interleague record.

75. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2862847)

By the time the kids (Volquez, Cueto, Bailey) reach their potential -- if they do -- do you really think Harang and Arroyo will still be around?

Harang has a good contract, doesn't he? If not Arroyo, some generic fifth starter. But my point still remains. Its not the pitching they have to fix, its their hitting and defence. Bruce/Votto/Philips is a good start.
But they have a long way to go.

76. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2862846)

Delgado looks like he is seeing the ball well.

77. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:16 PM (#2862848)

That'll do, Carlos II!!!!

78. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:16 PM (#2862849)

BOOOOOOOOOOM!

79. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:18 PM (#2862850)

Over/Under innings before Santana gives it back: 2.

80. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:19 PM (#2862855)

The trivia question: three Reds' pitchers to lead the league in SHO and wins. One is Dolf Luque (1923).

81. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:19 PM (#2862856)

Delgado is a pure slugger.

He is now leading the Mets in homers. Who would have predicted that when he was struggling?

82. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2862859)

Man, that's Brandon Phillips for you. Horrid swing on 2-0.

83. Bob Koo Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:22 PM (#2862860)

That AB is a nice microcosm of how Delgado's approach has gotten so much better the last month or so. He laid off two breaking balls low and inside that he used to be swing at, which set up the hanging slider on 3-1.

84. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:22 PM (#2862861)

Dunn and Santana was a pretty explosive combo waiting to happen . . . .

85. Bob Koo Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:22 PM (#2862862)

Santana's been unjustly criticized in some Mets circles, but what's frustrating is that he always seems to give back 1 and 2-run leads with alacrity.

86. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2862863)

three Reds' pitchers to lead the league in SHO and wins. One is Dolf Luque (1923).

Browning? Rijo?

87. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2862865)

Great. Just f'ing great.

88. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2862866)

Please go #### yourself, Johan.

89. Bob Koo Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2862867)

See what I mean?

90. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:24 PM (#2862869)

Jay and Donahue. Never heard of them.

91. Hey, it's what Johan uses (Matt) Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:24 PM (#2862871)

Ah, ####.

92. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:25 PM (#2862872)

Awwwwww. Is he feeling a wittle tired?

93. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:28 PM (#2862877)

Stop worrying about Joey ####### Votto and get Ross.

94. Bob Koo Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:28 PM (#2862878)

This is crap, Johan.

95. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2862879)

Brilliant! Just brilliant!

96. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2862880)

How the hell do you walk Ross twice in a row? That galls me more than the home runs.

97. Dan Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2862882)

Ross is walking a ton this year.

98. Russlan roots for the the mediocre Mets Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2862883)

Santana pitching poorly today.

99. Sam M. Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2862885)

What a terrible bunt. Nicely played by Santana.

100. Crimes and Metsdemeanors Posted: July 17, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2862887)

Nice bit of Jim Kaat there.

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