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Tuesday, September 02, 2008

New York Mets (77-61) @ Milwaukee Brewers (80-57), Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 8:05pm

NYM: (, RHP, 0-0, undef)
MIL: Manny Parra (25, LHP, 10-6, 4.00)

The Primer Chimp Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 274 comment(s)
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Page 1 of 3 pages  1 2 3 >
   1. Hey, it's what Johan uses (Matt) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 12:01 PM (#2925892)
Jonathon Niese was born on October 27, 1986.
   2. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 01:13 PM (#2925996)
Lucky it rained on October 26th, eh?

So how good would Niese have to end up being for his birth to be the most significant thing to happen on that date in Mets' history? Hall of Fame? Or is winning Game 7 always going to be # 1, no matter what Niese accomplishes?
   3. zack Posted: September 02, 2008 at 01:33 PM (#2926024)
The Brewers like hitting against groundballers, and they like hitting against lefties. Eek.
   4. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:24 PM (#2926264)
Wagner threw off a mound yesterday and is supposedly expected to make a rehab appearance before Sunday. Assuming he can come back and be a solid closer, is a middle relief core of Ayala/Heilman/Stokes enough to be a good bullpen?
   5. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2926487)
Assuming he can come back and be a solid closer, is a middle relief core of Ayala/Heilman/name your lefty of choice for the night/Stokes enough to be a good bullpen?

Forget Heilman. If Wagner is back -- IF he's back -- then you have Ayala and Stokes from the right side, and Feliciano and Schoeneweis from the left side. That HAS to be enough for the 7th and 8th innings. You relegate Sanchez and Heilman to mop-up and 6th inning duty, until and unless they show something consistent in terms of stuff and location.

It's performance that counts, not the past and not reputation and not contract. Performance. Right now, Ayala and Stokes and showing far better stuff and command than the two other righties. And you are likely to need the lefties in a lot more situations where Ayala and Stokes can't be used.
   6. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2926493)
It's Niese time. Cross your fingers . . . .
   7. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:14 PM (#2926495)
Well, that wasn't the start I was looking for.
   8. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2926498)
Oops.
   9. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2926500)
I expect Zombie Offense today, so that's probably the GWRBI.
   10. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:16 PM (#2926501)
That may be the least surprising walk of the year. Right after the lead-off HR? Knock me over.
   11. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:20 PM (#2926512)
Niese is as wild as a March Hare.

Two good pitches to Prince.
   12. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2926514)
Yeah, don't do any favors for the kid, Carlos. Sheesh.
   13. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2926515)
Bad defense sure isn't going to help matters, Carlos II . . . .
   14. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2926516)
An out!
   15. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2926517)
Well, there's the nice curve ball they've been advertising on strike one to Hart.
   16. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2926522)
One more, Jon. You can do it!
   17. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2926523)
He does have that yakker, doesn't he? Something to build on.
   18. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2926528)
Nice job to settle down.
   19. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2926529)
Nice job, kid. Way to keep Zombie Offense in the game!
   20. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2926530)
That was, in its way, impressive. Niese definitely has an arsenal of pitches, if he throws strikes.
   21. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:27 PM (#2926534)
Well, I just got in and all I saw was Niese retire three straight batters. I like his stuff. Big curve, solid fastball, and decent change. How he does will depend on location.
   22. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:28 PM (#2926535)
His command of the curve and change were pretty good. Much better than his FB.
   23. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2926537)
Niese had every good bb/9 numbers in the minors. It's not a surprise he stuggled with his control considering he is making his major league debut.
   24. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2926540)
Much better than his FB.

As the Brewers' announcers pointed out, his FB is absolutely straight. The velocity is adequate (barely), but without movement, it's a sitting duck pitch. It can work as a counter-point to the curve, but it's be a LOT better if he can find a way to get some sort of movement to make it a weapon and not just another pitch.

It's the difference between him being a 100 ERA+ pitcher most seasons, and having the potential to be a lot more.
   25. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2926544)
Tatis!!!! And now we're set up for more. Outstanding!
   26. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2926546)
Got it right back. Come on Easley.
   27. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2926554)
Productive out.
   28. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2926556)
Yeah, but Niese is still young and his FB could gain a tick or two velocity wise. I like him quite a bit.
   29. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2926563)
Why is Cancel on this roster instead of Casanova.
   30. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2926565)
I die a little inside everytime Cancel has an AB.
   31. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2926568)
*sigh* If Castro could only stay healthy.
   32. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2926569)
Yeah, but Niese is still young and his FB could gain a tick or two velocity wise. I like him quite a bit.

I like him too. But if I could choose, I'd take some movement over a bit more velocity on that FB without hesitation. Give me a 90 MPH pitch that goes someplace (especially with the off-speed stuff he already has), instead of a straight 92-93 MPH FB, which is not that much better anyway. Since he's only 21, there is plenty of time for him to work on getting that FB to do something.
   33. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2926570)
Do pitchers even hit in AA?
   34. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2926574)
Niese had a few hits, if memory serves. He's no Al Leiter.
   35. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2926587)
Evans!
   36. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2926588)
Evans plays defense much better than Murphy as of right now.
   37. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:43 PM (#2926590)
I'm pretty sure Evans has more experience than Murphy out there.
   38. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:44 PM (#2926592)
That's a no-no, Niese.
   39. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:44 PM (#2926593)
That was close. Whew.
   40. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:44 PM (#2926597)
If that were Santana who just walked Kendall. I'd go apeshit.

Still, don't walk Kendall, Niese. :)
   41. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#2926601)
Was that last pitch to Weeks a cutter?
   42. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#2926603)
By the grace of Nick Evans's glove, that was a much better second inning for Niese.
   43. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2926608)
I'm pretty sure Evans has more experience than Murphy out there.

Coming into this year, Evans hadn't played any minor league games in the OF. He'd played about 300 games at 1B, and 21 at 3B. This year, I'm pretty sure he played the vast majority of his games at 1B as well.
   44. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2926611)
Prince Butcher is more like it. Poor infielders.
   45. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2926613)
He played 22 games in the OF this season.
   46. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2926615)
That was Wright-like. Much better.
   47. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:53 PM (#2926619)
They gave Hardy an error on that? That's hard cheese.
   48. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:53 PM (#2926621)
Terrible play by Kendall. That pitch HAS to be handled, I don't care if it is scored as a WP.
   49. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2926622)
BELT-RUNS!!!
   50. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2926623)
Beltran! Run support for the kid, I like it.
   51. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2926625)
5 runs in 2.1 IP.

Not bad for a Zombie Offense.
   52. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2926627)
Three-run home runs are the awesome. The very, very awesome.

Especially in support of 21 year old rookie pitchers.

And for those of you who want to trade Carlos Beltran for Robinson ####### Cano? STFU next time.
   53. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2926628)
"Not bad for a Zombie Offense."

The uber-triple-revolution reverse jinx!
   54. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:00 PM (#2926634)
3-0 Phillies in the 7th. With Hamels. I guess that was never going to go our way, was it? Oh, well.
   55. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2926635)
That was NOT good, Jon. Pulling a Maine after Beltran did that for you? Ugh.
   56. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2926636)
Niese, stop doing that.
   57. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:02 PM (#2926639)
Niese really sawed off Braun there.
   58. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:02 PM (#2926641)
Please hit another DP grounder, Prince.

Please field it this time, Carlos.
   59. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:04 PM (#2926643)
Niese could use a Pelfrey special.
   60. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:05 PM (#2926646)
This would be a very, very nice out to get to keep the lead right where it is. Come on, Jon.
   61. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2926648)
Well, at least we know that he doesn't crumble with runners on base.
   62. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2926649)
Great job by the kid! You gotta love that -- not giving up even one run of the lead. Awesome.
   63. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:07 PM (#2926650)
He's not getting many grounders, but this is a brutal (flyball hitting) lineup and Niese has bupkus for FB command.

Way to go, kid!
   64. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2926666)
Jason Kendall??? Of all guys to hurt us . . . .
   65. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:17 PM (#2926668)
How about Manny Parra? Dang.
   66. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:17 PM (#2926669)
Well that doesn't help matters, does it? This is big-time trouble now. Still no one out.
   67. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:19 PM (#2926671)
Somebody else should be pitching. This guy is done. He's gassed. Get him out before Weeks hits another HR.
   68. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:19 PM (#2926672)
Mets will be lucky to be tied after this inning.
   69. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:20 PM (#2926675)
Get him out of there. Stokes or some RHP.
   70. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:21 PM (#2926676)
Just some awful managing.
   71. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2926677)
Well, he was pitching on short rest. And he had to work hard to get through some of those jams in the early innings.

But he's got some nice stuff -- and it's equally clear he has some work to do. A solid prospect, no doubt.
   72. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2926678)
Two batters too late. That's enough to beat you.
   73. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2926679)
Just some awful managing.

I don't that's fair. This isn't Nintendo where you can replace the pitcher right away. He needs time to warmup. This happened too quickly to blame Manuel.
   74. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2926680)
Well, he was pitching on short rest. And he had to work hard to get through some of those jams in the early innings.
That just makes the managing shittier.
   75. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:24 PM (#2926682)
Braun sure wasn't expecting THAT on 1-2. And Figueroa is lucky he wasn't.
   76. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:27 PM (#2926686)
I don't that's fair. This isn't Nintendo where you can replace the pitcher right away. He needs time to warmup. This happened too quickly to blame Manuel.
This isn't true. There are a fe wmillion ways to stall when a pitcher is done. Plus Sam's observations mean Manuel should have already been expecting a short outing.
   77. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:29 PM (#2926687)
Good play by Cancel.
   78. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:29 PM (#2926688)
Great play by Cancel to block Hardy out.

Kind of questionable to send him there, I think. With only one out . . . Not a terrible decision, just a questionable one, since he had to hold up.
   79. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:31 PM (#2926691)
Eh. Could have been much, much worse.
   80. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:32 PM (#2926693)
Great job by Figueroa. He got a K, a popup and a K. Only bad luck coughed up the tying run (that's twice they've gotten that horseshit.)
   81. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:32 PM (#2926694)
Could be worse -- the Cubs fans could be marching over here yelling at us. ;-)
   82. BeanoCook Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:33 PM (#2926695)
Kind of questionable to send him there


Cohen "WHY DIDN"T HE JUST STAY!!"

I disagree mr idiot, I mean Cohen. How about the Mets made a very nice play? Sometimes that happens. Also, Keith was right, JJ's foot would have beaten that throw had he slid right in there feet first, not that wide-hook thing where you tap the plate with your hand.
   83. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:36 PM (#2926698)
Cohen "WHY DIDN"T HE JUST STAY!!"

Well, that's the difference between me and Cohen. He makes an absolute declaration and berates; I just raise the point that maybe it was somewhat questionable. With only one out, you COULD have held him and still had the bases loaded, since either way it was going to be a close play. OTOH, there's sometimes nothing wrong w/ being aggressive and forcing the other guys to make a play. So you can argue it either way.
   84. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:37 PM (#2926700)
It was a nice play. Hardy was nearly safe and if the throw is to the right of the plate, he can be safe easily.
   85. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:38 PM (#2926703)
Well, the Mets don't like scoring after teh 6th inning, so we better get a few now.
   86. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:39 PM (#2926704)
So, does Niese get another start or do you go with Figgy the next time the Mets need a starter?
   87. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:40 PM (#2926706)
And with a big pen due to callups, not having someone ready is even dumber.
   88. BeanoCook Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:40 PM (#2926707)
No question that call to send him was a 50/50 deal, could go either way. Sure 1 out, but the double play in intact and seriously, does anyone really think decisions in baseball are made at full speed with such broad/integrated consideration given?

I really like Ron Darling and think Keith Hernandez is not bad, but G Cohen is a blowhard dufuss.
   89. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:41 PM (#2926709)
So, does Niese get another start or do you go with Figgy the next time the Mets need a starter?

Well, just eyeballing it, it looks like that would be against the Nats, right? You could give that to Niese -- giving it to him on full rest, against a line-up he could handle.

Niese.
   90. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:44 PM (#2926712)
In 106 PA, righties have a .520 OPS off Figgy.
   91. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:45 PM (#2926713)
I agree wiht Sam. Yes, I give him another shot, but with a caddy.
   92. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:45 PM (#2926716)
The Nats' best hitters are righthanded though.
   93. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:46 PM (#2926720)
14-13 in Florida.
   94. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:47 PM (#2926722)
Man, Parra is crushing some ####### meatballs tonight.
   95. Sam M. Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:48 PM (#2926724)
The Nats' best hitters are righthanded though.

I know the Brewers. The Brewers are friends are mine. Nats, you are no Brewers.

Right-handed hitters or not, Niese can do OK against them. As Chris says, with a relatively short leash. But he wouldn't be as nervous, so his command is likely to be better. And he wouldn't be on short rest. I could see going another way; it'd be a reasonable call. But I think Niese showed enough to be a good move.
   96. BeanoCook Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:52 PM (#2926727)
I'd give Niese a slight pass tonight. This was a Sept game in a playoff atmosphere in front of a sellout on the road vs two teams fighting for a playoff spot. In addition, the Brewers are possibly the worst opponent for a LH rookie.
   97. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:52 PM (#2926728)
Another fine play by Evans.
   98. Chris Dial Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:52 PM (#2926729)
Pretty nice work for Evans out there. Sure, Endy is just cruising, but for Evans, he's played nicely tonight.
   99. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:52 PM (#2926730)
Yikes.

This game has no business being tied. Fifteen baserunners by the Brewers in five innings.
   100. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:56 PM (#2926733)
I'd like to see Beltran steal here.
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