BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: NLDS Game 4: Padres (1-2) at Cardinals (2-1)

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Sunday, October 08, 2006

NLDS Game 4: Padres (1-2) at Cardinals (2-1) - 8:05 pm EDT on FOX

SD: W. Williams (12-5, 3.65)
STL: C. Carpenter (15-8, 3.09)

NTNgod Posted: October 08, 2006 at 03:02 AM | 178 comment(s)
Related News: San Diego, St Louis

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1. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:33 AM (#2203694)

MLB.com still shows this game as being on ESPN. They're full of it, right?

2. rembini06 Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:53 AM (#2203737)

In case anyone missed my brilliant point late yesterday (sorry, but I was at the game), I'll repeat it here: Anthony Reyes is not on the NLDS roster. The only other pitcher who could've started today was Jason Marquis, and he might've been the worst starter in baseball by the time the season ended.

3. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 08, 2006 at 11:03 AM (#2203744)

Not like they need someone special to out-ace Woody Williams.

4. rembini06 Posted: October 08, 2006 at 11:54 AM (#2203781)

May well be, but the Cardinals only have one starter better than Woody Williams.

With Rolen helpless against an average fastball and Edmonds finding a new injury, the Cardinals don't have a chance in the LCS. This is their World Series right here.

5. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 12:20 PM (#2203797)

The only other pitcher who could've started today was Jason Marquis, and he might've been the worst starter in baseball by the time the season ended.

In which case, I retract my argument against starting Carpenter today. The advantage to holding him back is worth playing for only if the odds are good enough he WON'T have to pitch tomorrow. If you have to pitch Marquis, the odds are -- to say the least -- not good enough.

But I just have to say, although it's the right decision for the Cardinals, it really, really is good news for the Mets. Either way this comes out, they shouldn't have to face either Carpenter or Peavy until Game 3. Or, maybe Carpenter in Game 2, but on short rest. It couldn't have worked out any better.

With Rolen helpless against an average fastball and Edmonds finding a new injury, the Cardinals don't have a chance in the LCS.

Rolen's in luck, then. The Mets have a bunch of starters who have less than average fastballs. And last time I looked, there's still that MVP in the middle of your line-up, who just absolutely kills John Maine and pretty much all our other pitchers, too. If they win this series, the Cardinals will not be cannon fodder. Same with the Padres, by the way. I have no illusions -- not after I heard all that nonsense about how there was no way in the world the Tigers could beat the Yankees . . . .

6. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 01:10 PM (#2203828)

It couldn't have worked out any better.

The Mets would be doing cartwheels over Wells-Young-Peavy as opposed to Peavy-Wells-Young?

7. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 01:20 PM (#2203841)

Cartwheels? No, that's too strong. But the fewer times you have to face Jake Peavy, the better. And at least to have the chance to not have to face him a second time (if things go well) is good news. I would assume that if Peavy is the Game 3 starter, he wouldn't return until a possible Game 7, which might never happen. If he were the Game 1 starter, he'd be assured of at least one more start.

No doubt -- the difference between Peavy and the rest of the Padres' starters isn't nearly as big as that between Carpenter and the rest of the Cards' pitchers. But it's still an advantage for the Mets to be able to set up their rotation, while the winner of this series will have used its ace later.

8. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 01:28 PM (#2203853)

They'd have the chance to avoid Peavy, but, barring a sweep, they'd also be facing a left-handed starter twice. If there's any advantage at all there it's razor-thin at best.

9. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 01:56 PM (#2203875)

If there's any advantage at all there it's razor-thin at best.

No doubt, that's the first time that phrase has ever been used in connection with David Wells.

You may be right, the advantage is small. Still, I can't help but believe the fewer times the Mets see Jake Peavy in a match-up against San Diego, the better. Lefty or not, I'd rather take my chances with Wells. That's just how much I respect Peavy.

10. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: October 08, 2006 at 02:25 PM (#2203896)

This entire conversation assumes Peavy is the Padres best pitcher. He hasn't been all year. The Pads best pitcher started yesterday.

Granted, Peavy could still be their best pitcher on any given day, but that hasn't been the way to bet for a while.

11. robinred Posted: October 08, 2006 at 02:47 PM (#2203919)

MLB.com still shows this game as being on ESPN. They're full of it, right?

Yes. The Mets and Tigers wins forced FOX to move SD-StL to prime time. So, in kind of a fun thing for San Diego, the Padres and the Chargers are both on network TV tonight in prime time at the same time.

12. robinred Posted: October 08, 2006 at 02:53 PM (#2203926)

That's just how much I respect Peavy.

Granted, Peavy could still be their best pitcher on any given day, but that hasn't been the way to bet for a while.

As I said before the playoffs, one issue that worried me in terms of the Padres winning this series and then having a shot at the next one if they get there, was that Peavy is simply not as consistent as you need your "ace" to be. I believe, as I said yesterday, that this stems from his mechanics and his excitability. So, yes, he is capable of hanging seven innings of 3-hit 10-k ball on anybody, he also blows up much more often than Young does. So, yes, Young, overall, has been the team's best starter. I loved the trade at the time, and I think Jon Daniels really blew it. It also may have saved Towers' job.

13. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: October 08, 2006 at 02:56 PM (#2203928)

And is the game actually at 8:05, 7:35, or 7:05? I've seen all three times listed, and I'm trying to plan my day here. *:^}

14. robinred Posted: October 08, 2006 at 03:43 PM (#2203957)

And is the game actually at 8:05, 7:35, or 7:05? I've seen all three times listed, and I'm trying to plan my day here. *:^}

During the NY/LA game, they said 8 EST. My guess is first pitch about 8:10 or 8:15 Eastern.

15. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 04:00 PM (#2203971)

So, yes, Young, overall, has been the team's best starter.

Young may have had the best season, but I have no doubt that Peavy remains the Padres' best pitcher. If the Pads win this series, he's the one I'd be most glad if the Mets didn't have to face him multiple times. Obviously, I could be wrong about that, and somebody else (Wells, Young) could hang two gems around their necks. But I think if the Mets got a second look in a week's time at either of those guys, they'd do some business. Peavy's stuff? He can dominate no matter how many times in a row a line-up sees him.

All that said, the Padres have a lot of business to take care of before they can worry about the Mets . . . .

16. Richard Gadsden Posted: October 08, 2006 at 06:43 PM (#2204084)

MLB.com now says 8:05 on FOX - I'm assuming they actually mean 8:19 EST. So that's 1:19 am local on a Monday. Hmmm, I think I can cope with the lack of sleep tomorrow as long as we don't get into extra innings

17. Richard Gadsden Posted: October 08, 2006 at 06:48 PM (#2204089)

Lineups:
Roberts, LF
Giles, RF
Gonzalez, 1B
Bard, C
Branyan, 3B
Cameron, CF
Blum, SS
Barfield, 2B
Williams, P

Eckstein, SS
Wilson, LF
Pujols, 1B
Edmonds, CF
Encarnacion, RF
Belliard, 2B
Speizio, 3B
Molina, C
Carpenter, P

18. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 06:56 PM (#2204095)

MLB.com now says 8:05 on FOX - I'm assuming they actually mean 8:19 EST.

8:19 PM Sunday in Fox-Speak means 3:27 Wednesday afternoon.

19. Lee Smith & Wesson Posted: October 08, 2006 at 07:20 PM (#2204113)

test

20. Lee Smith & Wesson Posted: October 08, 2006 at 07:22 PM (#2204115)

test

21. rembini06 Posted: October 08, 2006 at 07:27 PM (#2204118)

Spiezio, 3B

Yeah, he's not much of a fielder, but he's the greatest clutch hitter of all time. Has MGL's finger prints all over it, even if he doesn't work for the Cardinals any more.

MLB.com now says 8:05 on FOX - I'm assuming they actually mean 8:19 EST.

EDT! 8:19 EDT! If you've ever lived in the state where pi=3, you understand why that's important.

22. Capital City Goofball Posted: October 08, 2006 at 07:30 PM (#2204120)

I'm rooting for the T.O. Bowl to go overtime so there's less Zelasko.

23. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 07:35 PM (#2204126)

And Drew Bledsoe screws us all.

24. rembini06 Posted: October 08, 2006 at 07:41 PM (#2204131)

Drew Bledsoe and Anna Benson.

Rather than watch Fox, I think I'll go to the office and get some overnight projections started.

25. dng Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:13 PM (#2204178)

Brennaman. damn.

26. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:17 PM (#2204182)

I will say this for Joe Buck -- his whole demeanor and approach are far more tolerable for the NFL than they are for baseball. I almost don't mind him working football. Almost.

27. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:18 PM (#2204183)

"Only two hits in ten at-bats."

And if he had one more hit, he'd be a raving success, Thom? Shut up.

And looky there, now he's 3-11.

28. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:20 PM (#2204187)

I desperately want baseball tomorrow. I'm already getting all twitchy without my Extra Innings.

29. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:21 PM (#2204190)

I'm rooting for San Diego. Let's go Piazza and, to a lesser extent, Cameron.

30. In what respect, Craig K? Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:21 PM (#2204191)

Wow; well, at least we can't go on an eight-game losing streak in the playoffs.

31. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:23 PM (#2204193)

Can the Padres possibly blow ANOTHER golden chance early . . . .?

32. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:23 PM (#2204194)

Wait, Piazza's not playing? Why the hell not?

33. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:25 PM (#2204195)

3-2 to the TTO King. I'm shocked.

34. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:25 PM (#2204197)

Oy. Cardinal fans groan in unison . . . .

35. Richard Gadsden Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:25 PM (#2204198)

Chris, the strike zone is thataway...

36. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:26 PM (#2204199)

Whew.

37. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:27 PM (#2204200)

The golden rule of baseball is that when you walk a batter with the bases loaded it will always lead to a run.

38. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:31 PM (#2204202)

That ball was not high you idiots. It was below the belt.

39. Richard Gadsden Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:32 PM (#2204203)

If Carpenter can't get the curve into the strike zone and ends up without that pitch, how bad is that?

40. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:34 PM (#2204205)

If Carpenter can't get the curve into the strike zone and ends up without that pitch, how bad is that?

Really, really, really, REALLY bad

41. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:35 PM (#2204206)

Given how poor Carpenter's command was that inning, two runs was probably about the best outcome the Cards could reasonably have hoped for. Now they have to hope he settles down and finds a rhythm, and command of his curve ball.

42. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:35 PM (#2204207)

The final score of this game will be something like 10-7. You don't last long at 35 pitches per inning.

43. dng Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:35 PM (#2204208)

Anybody test drove or have an Azera? I have a friend who just bought one and is going crazy over it. Hyundai, they're really coming up in the world.

Go Pujols!

44. rembini06 Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:37 PM (#2204210)

The final score of this game will be something like 10-7.

Tony LaRussa's Cardinals teams collapse much more meekly than that.

45. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:38 PM (#2204211)

Anybody test drove or have an Azera?

No, but I rode in an Armenian once.

46. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:40 PM (#2204213)

You need to bust your ass trying to get to second there. I'm not saying you have to even try for the double, but he didn't appear to be going 100% ouot of the box.

47. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:41 PM (#2204215)

Unrivaled in the history of the game if you choose a bunch of arbitrary milestones. There've been lots of guys who hit better in their first six years.

48. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:42 PM (#2204216)

That's a strike, "best fans in baseball".

49. rembini06 Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:42 PM (#2204217)

You need to bust your ass trying to get to second there.

Albert Pujols is on deck.

50. dng Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:43 PM (#2204220)

I was reading James' 1991 baseball book this morning, and he mentioned in the Fred McGriff comment that McGriff was the active leader in SLG% at .530. AP is 100 points higher. 15 years.

51. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:46 PM (#2204223)

That's just not right. Edmonds gets hit? That's like Floyd getting hit these days. Ouch.

52. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:46 PM (#2204224)

Edmonds tried really hard to get out of the way of that one.

53. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:46 PM (#2204225)

Albert Pujols is on deck.

And the hitters behind him aren't very good.

My point basically is that he didn't look to be going 100% down the line - if he were, it might have been a good decision to go for it.

And Albert didn't bother running out the groundball he hit. I thought "the best fans in baseball" appreciated hustle. They should have booed Pujols who is a primadonna that poops his pants.

54. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:47 PM (#2204227)

Edmonds tried really hard to get out of the way of that one.

It was ball four anyway.

55. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:48 PM (#2204228)

That...was a ball?

56. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:49 PM (#2204230)

Way to walk the house and then get burned by the gork, dumbass.

57. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:51 PM (#2204233)

Ok, that usmint.gov commercial seriously felt like a joke for the first half of it.

58. rembini06 Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:51 PM (#2204234)

"the best fans in baseball"

Somebody has a hangup.

I guess Belliard isn't a TLR-type player.

59. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:53 PM (#2204236)

This has all the hallmarks of a classic pitchers' duel.

60. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:54 PM (#2204240)

I just don't like it when fans boo every questionable call, cheer things like moving the runner to 3rd with 0 outs, and other things that STL fans seem to do much more than other fans.

61. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:57 PM (#2204243)

That was some dumb hitting that inning.

The best fans in baseball are probably Pirates fans, or what's left of them. It takes genuine devotion to stick with that team.

62. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 08:59 PM (#2204245)

Spiezio, Molina, and Carpenter. If Woody Williams can't through this inning one-two-three he's going to struggle to make it through 5.

63. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:00 PM (#2204246)

What got into the Sandfrog this year?

64. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:01 PM (#2204247)

Spezio, that red goatee is NOT awesome.

65. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:02 PM (#2204248)

He's really committed to it. I remember making fun of it in April.

66. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:09 PM (#2204250)

See, a decent broadcast would have a side-by-side comparison of Gonzalez and Palmeiro when McCarver raises that point that their approaches are similar.

But this is Fox, alas.

67. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:11 PM (#2204252)

If Texas doesn't trade Young and Gonzalez for Otsuka, there is no way the Padres would have made the postseason.

68. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:13 PM (#2204253)

If ADrian Gonzalez didn't look exactly like Palmeiro I doubt McCarver makes that comparison.

69. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:14 PM (#2204254)

It is most unfortunate that the local FOX carrier here doesnt carry FOX HD.

70. dng Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:15 PM (#2204256)

I know Buck got fired because players were going to the FO saying they were gone once their deal ended if Buck stayed, but it's ironic that Daniels is the one who made the decision. Give Buck back Young and AG (and Soriano) and see what his record is.

Towers had one hell of a year.

71. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:18 PM (#2204261)

If Belliard lost 20 pounds, he might have more range.

72. Spivey Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:21 PM (#2204264)

I don't think Daniels is a very good GM, but that doesn't wash Showalter's hands clean either. His stubborn refusal to start Laird made no sense besides just playing favorites.

The way he used pitchers was puzzling at best and idiotic at worse.

And players don't like Showalter, so that is also a reason to fire him. And I don't think they would have liked him even if the team played better.

73. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:35 PM (#2204274)

Three-pitch inning. I'm not sure what has been worse, the pitchers' command in the first inning or the batters' approach since.

74. Urban Faber Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:39 PM (#2204276)

Another "arguably the greatest ... in the history of ..." in that inning.

Enjoy him, Reds fans.

75. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:41 PM (#2204277)

He'll be a good compliment to his father, who thinks everything sucks. (Except stuff that has to do with the Reds in the 70s, of course...)

76. Urban Faber Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:44 PM (#2204280)

Cards must have watched the Yankees yesterday. Uber aggressive.

77. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:46 PM (#2204283)

The longer this game goes tied, the better off San Diego is, right? St. Louis has a pretty grisly relief corps.

78. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:48 PM (#2204284)

Molina v. Reyes would be a fun sub-plot for the NLCS . . . .

79. Urban Faber Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:49 PM (#2204287)

Who goes tomorrow for the Cards?

80. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:51 PM (#2204289)

Towelie, I'd imagine.

81. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:51 PM (#2204290)

Molina v. Reyes would be a fun sub-plot for the NLCS . . . .

Like how far around the bases Molina could get in the time it takes Reyes to go home to home? I'd guess two steps past second.

82. Urban Faber Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:55 PM (#2204292)

Radio Shack sponsoring the Rolling Stones somehow seems about right.

83. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:55 PM (#2204293)

How can the Padres blow it like this against a three-days rest starter?

The only reason I care is that it will cause managers to keep doing it, which usually results in an explosion. They seemed to be learning not to.

84. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:56 PM (#2204294)

You know how during the NFL offseason they have skills competitions and stuff. They should do that for baseball, too, only with events like "Which is the fastest Molina?" and "Which Yankee Centerfielder Has The Worst Arm?" That would be cool.

85. Urban Faber Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:56 PM (#2204295)

Carpenter's on four. They had the extra day off in this series.

86. NTNgod Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:57 PM (#2204296)

Who goes tomorrow for the Cards?

Weaver is listed.

Like how far around the bases Molina could get in the time it takes Reyes to go home to home? I'd guess two steps past second.

I take it you have Molina already at first in this scenario...

87. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:57 PM (#2204297)

Radio Shack sponsoring the Rolling Stones somehow seems about right.

I figured it would be MEtemucil by now.

Pujols is homering here.

88. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:58 PM (#2204298)

Metamucil, that is.

Pujols would have homered if Woody had let him.

89. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 09:59 PM (#2204299)

Radio Shack sponsoring the Rolling Stones somehow seems about right.

They were here in Louisville a week or so ago -- they played Churchill Downs, a pretty neat venue. I had zero interest, but I know lots of people who went.

90. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:00 PM (#2204300)

"Pete Rose was the best baserunner I've ever seen..."

I almost expected the sentence to end there.

91. dng Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:02 PM (#2204301)

lol

92. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:02 PM (#2204302)

Encarnacion gives the Mets the NL Championship. Who'da thunk it?

93. rLr Did Your Mother 'Cause She's Hot As A Baker Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:02 PM (#2204303)

Juan Encarnacion? Really? This is a major league playoff team?

94. Urban Faber Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:03 PM (#2204304)

Count the ring!

95. Sam M. Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:04 PM (#2204306)

Encarnacion gives the Mets the NL Championship.

Congrats to the Tigers on their AL title. Without Ellis, the A's are doomed.

96. Flounder is dangerous again Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:05 PM (#2204307)

Another huge run at third now.

97. Urban Faber Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:05 PM (#2204308)

No squeeze play, Tony?

98. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:05 PM (#2204309)

Why do you bring in Meredith after the first of successive right-handed hitters?

99. Urban Faber Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:07 PM (#2204311)

That won't hurt Belliard where it hit him.

100. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: October 08, 2006 at 10:08 PM (#2204313)

Speaking of trades that help the Padres -- here's Cla Meridith.

I guess that extra weight presents a bigger target, so it helps his OBP.

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NLDS Game 4: Padres (1-2) at Cardinals (2-1) - 8:05 pm EDT on FOX

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