BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Philadelphia Phillies (77-64) @ New York Mets (79-62), Sunday, September 7, 2008, 8:05pm

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Sunday, September 07, 2008

Philadelphia Phillies (77-64) @ New York Mets (79-62), Sunday, September 7, 2008, 8:05pm

PHI: Cole Hamels (24, LHP, 12-8, 3.01)
NYM: Johan Santana (29, LHP, 12-7, 2.71)

The Primer Chimp Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 339 comment(s)
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201. strong silence Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:49 PM (#2932450)

202. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:52 PM (#2932452)

"The Met's have four of the NL's ten best players and the cause of last year's collapse is gone."

I got the first three. Who is the fourth?

[/Kidding]

203. Karl from NY Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:53 PM (#2932453)

strong, I'm curious as to which four you mean out of Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Delgado, Santana, and Pelfrey?

Anyway the problem isn't that core, is that the other half of the lineup is decidedly below average. What kills us is the endless RISP outs by Tatis and Schneider and RF-of-the-day.

204. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:53 PM (#2932454)

Neutral party here but if I'm a Met's fan I like my chances. The Met's have four of the NL's ten best players and the cause of last year's collapse is gone. That is a winning formula. And if Delgado can get hot for 2 weeks, the Mets should have no reason to think of last season.

These things have been true all season the entire season. It doesn't really matter anymore who is better as anything can happen in 20 games. The Mets, if they hang on to this one, will have a slight advantage because they will have the two game lead.

205. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:53 PM (#2932455)

A good rule to live by: any record that Dave Kingman holds is probably not worth breaking or having.

Just sayin'.

206. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:53 PM (#2932456)

Hopefully Santana can continue to get that outside pitch to the righties called.

207. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:54 PM (#2932457)

I'm still a bit concerned about the bullpen to be quite honest. Ayala is an okay reliever, but he's not someone who I want coming into games with a one run lead against the Phillies' middle of the order.

208. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:54 PM (#2932458)

That didn't look all that smooth on the Delgado end of it, but it got the job done.

209. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:54 PM (#2932459)

Anyway the problem isn't that core, is that the other half of the lineup is decidedly below average. What kills us is the endless RISP outs by Tatis and Schneider and RF-of-the-day.

The Met offense is very good. The problems are the bullpen (which has been hot recently) and the back end of the rotation (Pedro and Niese).

210. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2932460)

I got the first three. Who is the fourth?

Obviously Robinson Cancel.

211. strong silence Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2932461)

Wright! Nice fielding play.

212. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2932462)

Santana has been cruising since the first.

213. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2932463)

That's the guy you want to hit it to, Ryan. Keep doing that.

214. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:57 PM (#2932465)

Burrell looks awful right now. Of course, he is going to get a hit now.

215. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:57 PM (#2932466)

Where was that 1-2???????

216. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:57 PM (#2932468)

What kills us is the endless RISP outs by Tatis and Schneider and RF-of-the-day.

Church is pretty damn good. To be totally honest, the lineup is okay. Castillo is probably the weakest link and he's not THAT bad, especially when you can use Easley three times a week. Schneider/Castro platoon is fine with me. Manuel just needs to install Murphy as the 2nd place hitter and worry about the bullpen.

217. The District Attorney Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:58 PM (#2932470)

A good rule to live by: any record that Dave Kingman holds is probably not worth breaking or having.

Ryan Howard himself recently inspired me to try to find the worst overall season by a league HR leader.

Not surprisingly, the answer was Kingman.

I'm still a bit concerned about the bullpen to be quite honest. Ayala is an okay reliever, but he's not someone who I want coming into games with a one run lead against the Phillies' middle of the order.

The bright side of not having a closer, though, is that if Utley/Howard are up, the Mets can play matchups and use Feliciano, and no one is going to complain that the "closer" wasn't used, because there isn't one. (Well, Wagner himself was the rare lefty closer, so not the best example in that specific case, but you get the point.)

218. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:59 PM (#2932471)

That 1-2 non-call on Burrell might change the entire complexion of this game.

219. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:00 PM (#2932472)

Castillo is probably the weakest link and he's not THAT bad, especially when you can use Easley three times a week.

You make it sound like using Easley three times a week strengthens anything. Replacing suckitude with suckitude isn't a recipe for success, OFF . . . .

220. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:00 PM (#2932473)

93 pitches for Johan.

221. strong silence Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:01 PM (#2932474)

wright, reyes, beltran and santana are enough to take the division. They need 3 of 4 to play to their ability though.

That Twins team with Puckett, Blyleven, Hrbek and Viola won it all. They had a decent supporting cast but not significantly better than this Mets team.

The Mets have a very good chance.

222. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:01 PM (#2932475)

If Santana keeps coasting along like this, I might him let him throw something like 140 pitches tonight if that's what it'd take to get the CG.

223. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:01 PM (#2932476)

Eh, still several more pitches the ump made Santana throw (again).

224. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:02 PM (#2932477)

If Santana remains effective, he'll throw ~120.

225. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:03 PM (#2932478)

Mets need to score a couple more at some point tonight.

226. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:03 PM (#2932479)

Reyes has pulled a disappearing act this weekend.

227. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:07 PM (#2932481)

You make it sound like using Easley three times a week strengthens anything. Replacing suckitude with suckitude isn't a recipe for success, OFF . . . .

True. They noticeable weaknesses, but you can't have good players everywhere. Personally, I would play Castillo, bat him 8th, and tell him his job is to take as many pitches as possible per AB. Signing him was a terrible mistake by Minaya.

228. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:09 PM (#2932483)

You make it sound like using Easley three times a week strengthens anything. Replacing suckitude with suckitude isn't a recipe for success, OFF

Easley's far from a disaster against LHPs. .309/.387/.548 from '05-'07, and a tolerable .280/.327/.366 this year. When you've got a lineup featuring a top 2 NL SS, 3B, and CF, you're in very good shape if the worst you put in your lineup is Brian Schneider and a Castillo/Easley platoon.

229. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:10 PM (#2932484)

So, do you guys think Delgado is going to steal the MVP from Pujols this year? It might happen if Wright continues to struggle, the Mets win the division, and Delgado stays hot. It'd be an awful choice but he's got the hype. He has 65 RBI in his last 64 games.

230. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:11 PM (#2932485)

Games like this on national TV certainly don't hurt his chances, Russlan. Personally, I'd love to see it, even though it would be an absurd choice.

231. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:13 PM (#2932486)

I refuse to believe they'll give the MVP to guy who is the 5th best player on his team.

232. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:13 PM (#2932487)

Nice play by Wright.

233. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:13 PM (#2932488)

Shut up about Wright, people. He's earned his paycheck with his glove tonight.

234. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:13 PM (#2932489)

Wright is playing good defense.

235. will Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:14 PM (#2932490)

You guys complain a lot about Wright w/ RISP , but he can play some pretty good third base.

236. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:14 PM (#2932491)

Personally, I'd love to see it, even though it would be an absurd choice.

1) Kirk Gibson over Straw, 1988
2) Fergie Jenkins over Seaver, 1971

We're owed a damn award we don't deserve. Screw it. I'll take it.

237. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:15 PM (#2932493)

Wright has been outstanding defensively the last 6 weeks or so. Gold-glove calibre.

238. Karl from NY Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:15 PM (#2932494)

I think MVP voters typically look for a single outstanding player on a playoff entrant (like A-Rod last year), and look at full season traditional stats more so than storylines (misguided Jayson Stark columns aside.) I don't think Delgado stands out enough on the Mets (he'll split votes with Wright/Reyes/Beltran/Santana) and he doesn't show up on any rate stat leaderboards.

239. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:16 PM (#2932495)

Big spot in this game.

240. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:16 PM (#2932496)

Woot!

241. Joshemy Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:16 PM (#2932497)

Nice!

I let Santana start the 8th.

242. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:16 PM (#2932498)

I refuse to believe they'll give the MVP to guy who is the 5th best player on his team.

When Morneau got his he, was arguably the 4th best player on his team, behind one of the people Delgado trails on this year's Mets.

243. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:16 PM (#2932499)

That toss would have gotten D-Dub an unsportmanlike conduct penalty if he were playing in the Pac-10. ;-)

244. will Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:17 PM (#2932500)

I hope the new Mets ballpark has a much more subtle and sophisticated system to pipe in artificial noise.

245. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:17 PM (#2932501)

At least let Beltran, Wright, or Reyes win it if the Mets are going to win an undeserved award. This is coming from a guy who thinks Delgado is the bee's knees.

The Big Man. That's a sweet nickname for Delgado.

246. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:18 PM (#2932502)

I'd be surprised if Santana doesn't start the 8th. This game is very much needed.

247. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:18 PM (#2932504)

I hope we score more runs.

248. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:18 PM (#2932505)

D-Dub was trying to flip it into the stands... and failed miserably.

But if this baseball thing fails, he can always quarterback the Louisville Cardinals.

249. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:18 PM (#2932506)

But if this baseball thing fails, he can always quarterback the Louisville Cardinals.

The 49ers just offered him the position of starting quarterback.

250. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:19 PM (#2932507)

The Pats could use a QB now too.

251. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:19 PM (#2932508)

But if this baseball thing fails, he can always quarterback the Louisville Cardinals.

Sounds like a damn fine idea to me!

252. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:20 PM (#2932509)

Please. The 49ers are a sad, sad sight. Once Jim Druckenmiller became their QB, I stopped being a fan.

253. Joshemy Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:20 PM (#2932510)

I guess Sam doesn't love Hunter Cantwell as much as Mel Kiper Jr.

254. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:21 PM (#2932512)

No Met has ever hit 3 homers at Shea.

255. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:21 PM (#2932513)

I thought that was gone off the bat. I guess he didn't get all his weight into it.

256. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:21 PM (#2932514)

I guess Sam doesn't love Hunter Cantwell as much as Mel Kiper Jr.

I think Cantwell is just fine. But David Wright in Louisville? On campus?

Please.

Hunter who?

257. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:24 PM (#2932515)

I never realized how big college football was until I moved to the Midwest. Eighty percent of all conversations here revolve around it.

258. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:24 PM (#2932516)

Wright had better prepare all his own drinks while on campus.

259. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:24 PM (#2932517)

Delgado sucks. Bring up Carp.

260. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:24 PM (#2932518)

Please. The 49ers are a sad, sad sight. Once Jim Druckenmiller became their QB, I stopped being a fan.

You gotta love your team when they are bad to be a true fan.

261. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:26 PM (#2932520)

Delgado sucks. Bring up Carp.

Is it still June?

262. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:26 PM (#2932521)

You gotta love your team when they are bad to be a true fan.

I'm a 46 year old Mets' fan, been true to 'em all my life.

I think I qualify. ;-)

263. Lassus Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:27 PM (#2932522)

You gotta love your team when they are bad to be a true fan.

Holy 1996, batman!

264. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:28 PM (#2932524)

"You gotta love your team when they are bad to be a true fan."

To be fair, college and my inability to see the games outside of bars conspired to dim my interest.

265. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:29 PM (#2932526)

I'm glad I'm a Devils fan, because I think the Mets and Jets would've driven me from sports.

266. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:29 PM (#2932527)

college and my inability to see the games outside of bars conspired to dim my interest.

Needing to go to bars should have heightened your interest, man. Have you lost your mind?

267. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:30 PM (#2932528)

Santana for just Utley, then start the mix-and-match relievers?

268. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:31 PM (#2932529)

Talk about your HUGE first out. Excellent.

269. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:31 PM (#2932530)

I'm glad I'm a Devils fan, because I think the Mets and Jets would've driven me from sports.

Mets, 49ers, and Maple Leafs for me. I'm a masochist.

270. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:31 PM (#2932531)

Huge out.

271. Joshemy Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:31 PM (#2932532)

I give Santana Utley, Werth and Howard. If it come to Burrell, I go Joe Smith.

272. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2932533)

I think Beltran could have done more on that one.

273. will Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2932534)

Interesting play by Beltran

274. Joshemy Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2932535)

Hmmm... Beltran didn't read that quite right.

275. Dan Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2932536)

Is it me, or did Beltran look like he thought he had that one?

276. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2932537)

I expected that to be caught. Great job by Santana after the rough start. Please do not blow this game, bullpen.

277. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2932538)

Beltran isn't having his best day.

278. Joshemy Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2932539)

I would have let Santana face Howard.

279. haplo53 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2932540)

275: it's not just you.

280. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2932541)

"Have you lost your mind?"

I now have a Biochemistry degree.

So, yes.

281. strong silence Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:35 PM (#2932542)

I won't be second guessing the manager.

282. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:36 PM (#2932543)

That's an excellent job by Pedro II. LOOGYlicious.

283. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:36 PM (#2932544)

Well done, lefty arm. Go righty arm!

284. Joshemy Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:36 PM (#2932545)

Works for me Pedro.

Brian Stokes in.

285. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:37 PM (#2932546)

Stokes??? Not Smith? Hmmmmmmm . . . .

286. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:37 PM (#2932547)

Ooooooohhhhhhh. Stokes has really shot up the depth charts. I'm not yet comfortable with that.

287. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:38 PM (#2932548)

I think Stokes is the right move here b/c of Dobbs. They'd pinch-hit for Burrell.

288. will Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:38 PM (#2932549)

The Phillies should pinch hit Stairs or Dobbs for Burrel. He has the lowest average in MLB for the last month. I don't care if you embarass him, since he'll be off the team in three weeks in any event.

289. Zeba Zeba Eata Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2932550)

Awesome, bullpen.

290. Alan S Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2932551)

That'll do, pig.

291. will Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2932552)

Told you so

292. Joshemy Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2932553)

Go bullpen!

293. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2932554)

Bullpen woes? What bullpen woes???

I am Stoked!

(Sorry.)

294. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2932555)

"since he'll be off the team in three weeks in any event"

Is that a promise? :)

295. strong silence Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2932556)

Reyes!

296. The District Attorney Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2932557)

Committee of DOOM!!!

297. Sam M. Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2932558)

Three outs. Three outs, and we can give up 2/3 of a run for every one we get. That's not too much to ask, is it?

Is it?

298. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2932559)

I am Stoked!

Very Ny Postian.

299. Anthropophagus Mets Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2932560)

You expect it to be easy, Sam? IT'S NEVER EASY!

300. will Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:42 PM (#2932561)

Answer to #294--- I know Pat has had a good career vs. Mets, but there is no way he'll accept the contract the Phillies will be willing to offer him- something like 2 years at $10MM per/year. There will be some AL team that will offer him 4 years, though Pat has cost himself lots of money in the last 5-6 weeks.

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