BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Philadelphia Phillies (92-70) @ Los Angeles Dodgers (84-78), Monday, October 13, 2008, 8:22pm

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Monday, October 13, 2008

Philadelphia Phillies (92-70) @ Los Angeles Dodgers (84-78), Monday, October 13, 2008, 8:22pm

PHI: Joe Blanton (27, RHP, 9-12, 4.69)
LAD: Derek Lowe (35, RHP, 14-11, 3.24)

The Primer Chimp Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 194 comment(s)
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1. Gamingboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 01:15 PM (#2980520)

Stuff I want to see tonight:

Fewer non-baseball celebrities than last night (it was 9 last night)

Manny being Manny

Greg Maddux

A ACTUAL FIGHT. I don't like violence, but last night was too much of an appetizer. I want to see Manny vs. Victorino, Moyer vs. Maddux (fighting with walking sticks), Ryan Howard vs. all comers....

Vin Scully. DAMN YOU FOX! IT WON'T HURT YOU TO JUST TURN TO VIN SCULLY'S AUDIO FEED FOR A HALF INNING!

Casey Blake's beard becomes Sentient, takes over the world.

2. HCO will do anything for smooth music Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2981030)

Vin Scully. DAMN YOU FOX! IT WON'T HURT YOU TO JUST TURN TO VIN SCULLY'S AUDIO FEED FOR A HALF INNING!

I concur. If you give us an inning of Harry Kalas and Larry Andersen too.

I have the Phillies radio on my computer, and it's delayed about 60 secondss, so when something interesting happens I turn up the computer volume to hear them call it.

3. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:08 PM (#2981033)

I'd rather they just gave us the home team announcers for all the games than Buck and Caray. At least mlb.tv should give me that option.

4. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2981035)

With Lowe going on short rest, I wonder how many times we'll hear that sinker ballers might do better when their arms are tired. Probably about 50.

5. Benji Gil Gamesh Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2981036)

Eric Karros is a d-bag.

6. Benji Gil Gamesh Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:13 PM (#2981040)

sinker ballers might do better when their arms are tired.

That was one, from Karros.

7. J. Sosa Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2981044)

re: #4

It's McCarver. I'd set the over under at 20, provided Lowe makes it through the first inning.

And I do find it amusing, in a sick, dark kind of way that Kalas and Scully, perhaps my two favorites, are the respective teams' announcers.

8. Gamingboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2981046)

Folks, remind me if any Celebs are spotted that I miss.

9. HCO will do anything for smooth music Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:19 PM (#2981048)

Do you think they induced vomiting in that baby for the commercial? That seems wrong.

10. Benji Gil Gamesh Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2981049)

I've brought this up in previous postseasons, but am I the only one who finds Jeanie Zelasko oddly compelling?

11. Gamingboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:22 PM (#2981051)

Gary Matthews Sr! Yeah, someone who IS ACTUALLY RELATED TO BASEBALL!

12. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:24 PM (#2981052)

Juan Pierre? Why?

13. J. Sosa Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:27 PM (#2981055)

Gil Gamesh, I did at one time. Somewhat.

And then I saw her in HD. That was also perhaps around the time I saw her diss Ernie Harwell (at least I think it was Ernie Harwell, in any event, someone I resented seeing her diss).

It was an exorcism of sorts.

14. Benji Gil Gamesh Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2981058)

Yeah I mean I look at her and think "she's not actually attractive", except sometimes she just seems hot. It's confusing.

If Lowe weren't on short rest he'd already have given up 4 runs.

15. will Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2981059)

That wasn't a swing.

16. Dan Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2981060)

Why the hell doesn't Fox ever show a decent replay of a checked swing?

17. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2981063)

Make the decision to forego a third start from Hamels look smart, Tubby.

18. Tuque Snider is the new Gagne_55 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2981064)

Shane Victorino pounds into a DP! Now all we need is footage of Joe Torre talking about who he decided to put in his two-hole.

19. Dan Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2981066)

Well done by Furcal.

20. will Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2981067)

Good move to walk him.........

21. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2981068)

Stupid move, Manuel.

22. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:47 PM (#2981072)

Showing Manny and showing the ball, but separately doesn't give us any idea of where the ball was when he put the brakes on.

23. The District Attorney Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2981077)

Is there a ballboy hanging out around the foul pole?

Who's like 45 years old?

24. will Posted: October 13, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2981078)

If Lowe gives up any runs this inning, will he go in the dugout, and hold his breath, until he turns Dodger blue.

25. Buzzards Bay Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2981082)

That was huge,if he goes into a LoweMindFunk and Torre has to go to the pen it could have been a long days journey into night
The park factor in this series has been understated by the msm

26. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:09 PM (#2981087)

Shulman-Hershiser is the best national tandem going. It's a crime that Steve Phillips called the first two games and would presumably be in the booth if the series makes it back to Philly.

27. Gamingboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:10 PM (#2981089)

Well, my internet clunked out at a inopportune time.

28. Snowboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#2981091)

Shulman+Buck Martinez used to be awesome...until the secret got out.

29. Snowboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:15 PM (#2981094)

I guess Burrell doesn't believe in the "5-second rule?"...he should have picked up that chaw. That would have made this coverage tolerable.

30. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:34 PM (#2981100)

I think I could look better swinging than Joe Blanton. I wouldn't hit the ball either, but he is just flailing at the ball like he has no idea that there's such a thing as the strike zone.

31. Gamingboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:36 PM (#2981101)

Streisand and I forgot who else he said...

32. Gamingboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:38 PM (#2981103)

James Brolin as well. We are up to 2!

33. Snowboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:49 PM (#2981104)

It looked like a bunch of people who were famous before I was born (and have done nothing of interest since.) It's possible Elizabeth Taylor was in that shot, and Penny Marshall.

34. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2981105)

Way to get ahead and then not throw anything even close, Chunk.

35. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:57 PM (#2981107)

Ruh-roh.

36. Snowboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:58 PM (#2981109)

Everyone at the mound for this meeting, with Manny up, including Victorino and the team doctor. I don't think they discussed candlesticks.

37. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:58 PM (#2981110)

#### you, Joe.

38. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 09:59 PM (#2981111)

Once again, Burrell misses the cutoff man. (McCarver just beat me to it as I was typing.)

39. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:02 PM (#2981113)

I fail to understand the obsession with hitting the cutoff man when you've got a play at the plate.

40. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:07 PM (#2981116)

Because you stay out of giving up a second run. Which happened on a groundout. Which wouldn't have happened if he threw it where the cutoff man could catch it.

It isn't that the ball *will* be cut off, but that it *could* be.

That throw cost the Phils the lead.

41. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:13 PM (#2981120)

I wouldn't bunt since the bottom of the Phillies order isn't very good.

42. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:15 PM (#2981121)

And now you get a worse matchup in Feliz/Park than Dobbs/Kershaw, especially since Clayton didn't look great.

43. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:15 PM (#2981122)

See, I think using Greg Maddux here is the plan. He can throw strikes and can get GBs. It was effective enough to get Dobbs out of the game though.

Kershaw can't walk Howard there. That's his specific job.

44. Snowboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:16 PM (#2981123)

Dear Tim...Blake and Loney are in playing bunt...because they know the Phillies signs and the play is, indeed, an attempt to bunt.

Be surprised that the Phils bunt, if you want, but not that the Dodgers played it so.

As for Kershaw...I didn't think Lowe was gassed enough to pull him, maybe he said something?

45. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:19 PM (#2981127)

Ethier and DeWitt really do look similar.

46. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:20 PM (#2981128)

Because you stay out of giving up a second run. Which happened on a groundout. Which wouldn't have happened if he threw it where the cutoff man could catch it.

And a throw that bounces 40 feet from the plate severely reduces the chance of cutting down the first run, which nobody seems to think should be a consideration.

47. Esoteric roots for the two worst teams in baseball Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:20 PM (#2981129)

Wild pitches are perhaps the most infuriating circumstance in all of baseball. Maybe the pickoff.

And my god, the announcers are horrible. Ryan Howard CLEARLY touched the plate. How that could have been a "close" call is beyond me.

48. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:21 PM (#2981132)

So Taguchi time?

49. Dan Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:22 PM (#2981133)

Should be Coste, but probably will be Taguchi.

50. Snowboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:23 PM (#2981134)

I wonder how many Rangers fans were hoping Park would momentarily forget himself, and try to block the plate on Howard?

51. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:25 PM (#2981136)

Nice catch, but Taguchi still sucks and has to be worse than Jenkins even against LHP.

52. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:25 PM (#2981137)

And a throw that bounces 40 feet from the plate severely reduces the chance of cutting down the first run, which nobody seems to think should be a consideration.

Not if you throw it really hard and it goes through the cut off man to the plate on a line. And...Hi Greg.

53. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:26 PM (#2981139)

And a throw that bounces 40 feet from the plate severely reduces the chance of cutting down the first run, which nobody seems to think should be a consideration.

Of course it is a consideration. But the runner was Rafael Furcal, and the OF was Pat Burrell. You have to do the math in advance. He wasn't likely to get Furcal to begin with, it was the 5th inning. Preventing a BIG inning is more important than a single run. Frinstance, the Dodgers score a run *anyway* even if Furcal had been out. It's a bad play.

54. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:27 PM (#2981140)

I started to say what Ivan said too.

55. will Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:27 PM (#2981141)

The only good thing about how that inning ended, is that So won't appear the rest of the game......

56. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:31 PM (#2981143)

Chad Durbin was a good choice....

57. Repoz Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2981144)

Kiss of death, Buck...kiss of death.

"they've really found something in Durbin."

58. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2981145)

But Furcal only beat the throw by a foot. The chance to throw out the tying run at the plate is worth far more than keeping the trailing runner from going to third. Burrell had a chance to throw Furcal out, and correctly rolled the dice.

59. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2981146)

No LHBs on the bench?

60. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2981147)

Serves them right for using Durbin in the blowout.

61. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:34 PM (#2981148)

No LHBs on the bench?

They have Kemp, Nomar, Ardoin, Berroa and Pablo Ozuna. Not only no LHB, but no one else even worth sending up there. It's silly to waste Kemp as the PH if they're going to sacrifice.

62. bonifacio's got the good face! Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:34 PM (#2981149)

do not bunt with the Bison, Joe....

63. HCO will do anything for smooth music Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:36 PM (#2981152)

####### Phillies.

64. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:36 PM (#2981153)

But Furcal only beat the throw by a foot. The chance to throw out the tying run at the plate is worth far more than keeping the trailing runner from going to third. Burrell had a chance to throw Furcal out, and correctly rolled the dice.

I disagree. In the 8th inning, sure. In the 5th, no. You stay out of the big inning. Burrell (and you) was wrong.

65. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:37 PM (#2981154)

Durbin's BA/OBP/SLG against:

July: .160/.232/.240
August: .295/.380/.361
Sept/Oct: .340/.426/.532

I'll take bad trends for $200, Alex.

66. Zach Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:38 PM (#2981156)

Chad Durbin? There's a name from the past. I was a big fan of his when he came up -- 2001? Looking at his stats, it's hard to see any season that would be particularly fan inspiring. Then again, it was a tough decade for Royals pitchers.

67. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2981157)

But Furcal only beat the throw by a foot.

68. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2981158)

Hell, I take it all back - it is never the right move against the tying run with no outs and the chance the LEAD run can move to third, and MORESO when another runner can move to scoring position.

Its a bad play.

69. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2981159)

In other news from the sports magazine "Duh", Ryan Howard can't throw. Blech.

70. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2981160)

This is getting ridiculous quickly. If I'm the Phillies I get Madson in there right now to stop the bleeding, whatever inning it is.

71. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2981161)

I disagree. In the 8th inning, sure. In the 5th, no. You stay out of the big inning. Burrell (and you) was wrong.

2-1 in the 5th inning of a playoff game? You absolutely have to try to keep the tying run from scoring if you have a chance.

72. Repoz Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2981162)

Worst..Throw...Evah

73. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2981163)

Buck isn't that bad after listening to Caray. But he's still worse than Skip.

74. Zach Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2981164)

I know that The Book found that bunt defense screws up often enough to make it a plus play. I forget the break even ratio, though.

75. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:42 PM (#2981165)

Great effort from the MVP there

76. Dan Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:42 PM (#2981166)

What the heck are they cheering?

77. Repoz Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:42 PM (#2981167)

I forget the break even ratio, though

When Howard is playing 1B

78. Repoz Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:43 PM (#2981168)

What the heck are they cheering?

FREE HANKIES!

79. bonifacio's got the good face! Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:43 PM (#2981169)

one run lead, 2 on, fairly late; I think that's a prime bunt situation per Book...

80. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:44 PM (#2981170)

From Little League on up, you're taught to hit the cutoff man on the way to the plate. The cutoff man has another second or so after you release the ball to see what's happening - if the runner corners around third well, whether the trailing runner is trying to advance behind the throw, etc. You take all that away when you miss the cutoff man.

Any coach/manager at any level will tell you, without hesitating, that was a bad play.

81. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:44 PM (#2981171)

2-1 in the 5th inning of a playoff game? You absolutely have to try to keep the tying run from scoring if you have a chance.

No way. The Dodgers weren't only scoring 1 run the whole game. Morover, let's pretend he gets Furcal - he still puts two runners in scoring position, loses the DPoption. The next run can score on a GB or FB,a dn TWO runs score on a single. It's the wrong play. If he can get FUrcal with an overthrow, he can LIKELY get him with a throw that could be cutoff.

82. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:44 PM (#2981172)

He beat the overthrow by "only a foot". If he had thrown it where the cutoff man could catch it, Furcal is safe by a foot and a half, and the runners don't move up.

Let's see:
Overthrow the cutoff man - Furcal safe, runners move up, lead run scores on groundout
Don't overthrow the cutoff man - Furcal safe, runners don't move up, lead run doesn't score

I think your argument *in the 5th inning* is extremely weak.

This doesn't make much sense. Either he tries to cut down the run at home, or he hits the cut off man and prevents the trailing runner from scoring. If you have a good chance at preventing the run from scoring, esp. when you're only ahead by 1, you take it. Your argument only works if he had almost no chance of getting Furcal, and that obviously wasn't the case.

83. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:45 PM (#2981173)

Madson? Hell, I'd think about Lidge right now.

84. bonifacio's got the good face! Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:45 PM (#2981174)

repoz, what fan base of urbane baseball sophisticates do you number yourself among?

85. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:47 PM (#2981175)

Either he tries to cut down the run at home, or he hits the cut off man and prevents the trailing runner from scoring.

This is only true if the OF arm is weak, in which case he shouldn't bother with the runner at home.

86. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:49 PM (#2981178)

Scott Eyre aspires to Joe Blanton's haircut.

WOW. UTLEY!!!

87. JJ1986 Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:49 PM (#2981177)

Damn

88. Dan Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:49 PM (#2981179)

Nice play.

89. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:50 PM (#2981180)

This doesn't make much sense. Either he tries to cut down the run at home, or he hits the cut off man and prevents the trailing runner from scoring. If you have a good chance at preventing the run from scoring, esp. when you're only ahead by 1, you take it. Your argument only works if he had almost no chance of getting Furcal, and that obviously wasn't the case.

You don't "hit the cutoff man" you throw it all the way home at a height the cutoff man can cut it off.

Secondly, no you don't. You prevent the lead run from scoring. My argument works NMW. Besides, Pat Burrell NEVER has "a good chance" at throwing our Furcal on a single to left when Furcal is on second. It was well under 50% chance, and he made the likelihood another run would score go WAY up. This isn't rocket science.

90. Repoz Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:52 PM (#2981183)

what fan base of urbane baseball sophisticates do you number yourself among?

None. Frre agent since 1973.

91. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:53 PM (#2981185)

Great call by the ump on Utley's play, and great camerawork from the FOX folks there.

92. Srul Itza Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:54 PM (#2981187)

Helluva game so far.

I don't think 5 runs will do it.

93. Dan Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:54 PM (#2981188)

Why 1973?

94. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:54 PM (#2981189)

Repoz was shackled by the reserve clause.

95. bonifacio's got the good face! Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:55 PM (#2981190)

Kuo just pwned Rollins--we need the official "pwn" stat for that one...

96. ColonelTom Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:56 PM (#2981193)

Kuo's dominant as long as the duct tape on his elbow and shoulder holds.

97. bonifacio's got the good face! Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:57 PM (#2981194)

93--still feel that way? meet Kuo!

98. Snowboy Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:57 PM (#2981195)

Kuo has had two TommyJohn surgeries...is that even legal?
(It's certainly filthy.)

99. bonifacio's got the good face! Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:58 PM (#2981196)

hmmm, that was incomprehensible--for 93 read 92

100. Chris Dial Posted: October 13, 2008 at 10:58 PM (#2981197)

Kuo is just awesome. Plus they can get another inning out of him.

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Monday, October 13, 2008

Philadelphia Phillies (92-70) @ Los Angeles Dodgers (84-78), Monday, October 13, 2008, 8:22pm

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