BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Toronto Blue Jays (11-15) @ Boston Red Sox (15-12), Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 7:05pm

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Tuesday, April 29, 2008

Toronto Blue Jays (11-15) @ Boston Red Sox (15-12), Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 7:05pm

TOR: Roy Halladay (31, RHP, 2-3, 3.73)
BOS: Jon Lester (24, LHP, 1-2, 5.40)

The Primer Chimp Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:00 AM | 191 comment(s)
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1. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: April 29, 2008 at 05:14 PM (#2762923)

Doesn't look good for a game tonight does it? Weather wise.

2. kevin Posted: April 29, 2008 at 06:43 PM (#2762986)

Raining in Boston?

3. kevin Posted: April 29, 2008 at 06:46 PM (#2762991)

The weather map seems to indicate the storm will have moved through by game time.

4. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: April 29, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2762998)

5 game losing streak, we're playing the damn Blue Jays, and the pitching matchup is Halladay vs. Lester? Yikes.

5. kevin Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:13 PM (#2763014)

I think this is a make or break year for Ricciardi, Biffster. If he doesn't do well with this team, I can see him gettng fired, maybe before the year is out.

6. konaforever Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:17 PM (#2763018)

When's the last time a Boston team has won? Bruins lost. Celtics have lost 2 in a row in the playoffs. Redsox 5 in a row.

7. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:21 PM (#2763022)

I continue to wonder why Remy likes Toronto's offense so much.

8. kevin Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:22 PM (#2763026)

Because they all hit like he did, Biff.

9. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:24 PM (#2763033)

Rolen in a Jays uni is weird.

10. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:26 PM (#2763041)

Didn't like him falling behind the leadoff man 3-0, but nice recovery and nice to see him get rewarded for being aggressive in the strike zone after he did.

11. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:29 PM (#2763050)

Wide strikes called there on Petunia, golly.

12. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:29 PM (#2763052)

NESN out for anyone else?

13. plink Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:29 PM (#2763053)

Somebody tell MLB.tv that they're playing a game now...

14. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:29 PM (#2763054)

Halladay is looking really good.

15. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:30 PM (#2763056)

If that's the strike zone tonight, you can mark down the Halladay no-hitter now. Those strike two and three calls to Pedroia were straight out of the Eric Gregg Umpiring Academy.

16. kevin Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:33 PM (#2763066)

Seems like Lester is throwing strikes early tonight. That bodes well.

17. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:40 PM (#2763072)

Spoke too soon. He was missing badly to Overbay.

18. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2763085)

Ugh, frozen on a curveball right down the pipe.

19. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2763093)

At least Drew made him throw a few pitches, I guess.

20. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2763094)

morning all

21. kevin Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2763096)

Hey Phil.

22. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2763097)

More outstanding contact from Drew. That HR he hit off Halladay a couple weeks ago is a distant memory. What's he had, one line drive in two weeks?

23. kevin Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#2763109)

I'm still jetlagged after coming back from Hong Kong. Got to go.

24. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#2763110)

####### mlb.tv cant stop buffering

25. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:00 PM (#2763117)

That's some strike 3 call to Zaun. i guess i'll call that evening out the Petunia AB.

26. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2763122)

I don't see this team scoring off tonight's version of Halladay.

27. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2763123)

Lester needs this kind of umpire to pitch effectively.

28. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:05 PM (#2763128)

kevin, the celtics should be right because they have home ground advantage, right??

29. plink Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2763133)

i guess i'll call that evening out the Petunia AB.

It took me way too long to parse that sentence.

30. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:07 PM (#2763134)

Oh great, now Drew's hurt?

31. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2763142)

Eckstein looks really ridiculous when he throws, but somehow the balls get to first base in time.
I could see how this contributed to him being underestimated by both Red Sox and Angels front offices.

32. plink Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2763144)

Oh great, now Drew's hurt?

Is Moss a drop-off at all from Drew at this point?

33. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2763145)

Yes.

34. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2763147)

Why didn't Ellsbury come in instead of Moss?

35. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2763149)

Nice catch by Youk.

36. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:13 PM (#2763153)

Ellsbury has some groin tightness or some such irritation.

37. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:16 PM (#2763161)

The time off sure doesn't seem to have done Ortiz an ounce of good.

38. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2763166)

Big Papi - time to panic or not?
I'm starting to think that it is

39. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:18 PM (#2763172)

If Big Papi has gone the way of Mo Vaughn, this team is screwed no matter how well the pitching shapes up.

40. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2763182)

If Big Papi has gone the way of Mo Vaughn, this team is screwed no matter how well the pitching shapes up.

Not necessarily. Being able to play a Moss - Ellsbury - Drew or Ellsbury - Crisp - Drew outfield is worth a nice chunk of defensive runs with Manny shifting to DH. It's a downgrade from 2007 Ortiz DHing with Manny in LF, but it's not a huge downgrade once you consider both sides of the ball.

41. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2763188)

I don't know what's changed with Lester, but he's been getting a ton of GB outs his last few starts.

42. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:24 PM (#2763190)

Tight quad is report on Drew.

43. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2763196)

Tight quad is the injury du jour

44. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#2763203)

If Papi is toast then lets grab Barry Bonds!

45. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2763205)

Twight Left Quad for Drew as per Orsillo

46. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2763206)

If Papi is toast then lets grab Barry Bonds!

I suggested that in Sunday's chatter, Phil!

47. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2763207)

Not necessarily. Being able to play a Moss - Ellsbury - Drew or Ellsbury - Crisp - Drew outfield is worth a nice chunk of defensive runs with Manny shifting to DH. It's a downgrade from 2007 Ortiz DHing with Manny in LF, but it's not a huge downgrade once you consider both sides of the ball.

Ortiz was worth 80 runs with the bat last year. If Moss is average in LF, he's +20 or so on Manny, that's still (60-Moss's VORP) runs that the Sox lose. That is around 4-5 wins.

48. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2763211)

If Papi is toast then lets grab Barry Bonds!

I wonder what did Selig threaten the teams with to make them collude on not signing Bonds?
Collusion is the only explanation for why he's still unemployed.

49. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2763215)

Oh come on Jon, don't lose the zone here. And to Greg Zaun of all people.

50. John DiFool2 Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2763216)

I see the offense is still moribund-three straight pitching gems which are losses doesn't excite me.

Anyone else getting the runaround at the MLB.com site trying to install something called "Microsoft Silverlight"? I've installed the thing 3 straight times so far, yet the MLB website keeps insisting that it isn't installed. Using Firefox FWIW.

51. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2763219)

Did you reboot your browser after installing it?

52. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2763220)

A four-pitch walk. To Zaun. With the top of the order following. That's very, very annoying.

53. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2763222)

Who the #### walks Zaun on four pitches?

54. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2763225)

John, I have silverlight on firefox.

It works ok

55. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2763226)

Here comes the walk from 0-2.

56. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2763227)

I suggested that in Sunday's chatter, Phil!

I did see that and should have added it after my post.

57. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2763229)

ok...

That new camera angle they showed the Rios K with is really cool

58. Third True Outcome Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2763231)

59. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2763232)

That was a nice pitch. It's too bad he can't do that when he's got him 0-2, though, instead of wasting all those extra pitches that were nowhere near the dish.

60. John DiFool2 Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2763233)

Did you reboot your browser after installing it?

All 4 times now. Still no joy.

61. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2763237)

6 earned for Phil Hughes so far...

62. John DiFool2 Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2763239)

Perhaps the default path is installing it on MS Explorer?

63. Rafael Bellylard (p8p) Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2763243)

What am I missing? 4 pickoff attempts on Zaun? Isn't he like a 60-yr old catcher?

64. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2763245)

That grounder was helpfully placed.

65. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2763247)

Nice

66. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:43 PM (#2763253)

I downloaded Mosaic two days ago which is good except the only game that would not work was this one...

67. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:44 PM (#2763255)

TAKE

68. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2763257)

You useless piece of ####

69. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2763259)

Tonight, everyone looks like Lugo at the plate.

70. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2763260)

I'm not so sure it's collusion on Bonds. I think it's the GM version of managers not wanting to deviate too much from doing things the same way everyone else is. As much as Bonds would help a lot of teams, I think most GMs aren't really willing to rock the boat as much as it would take to sign him.

Barry Bonds had a 170 OPS+ last year! What AL team couldn't use a DH like that, especially if he could be had for cheap as people in his camp indicated? It must be collusion

71. Rafael Bellylard (p8p) Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2763265)

I think Bonds is about a month away from someone signing him.

72. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2763266)

This is pathetic

73. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2763267)

How many pitches for Halladay?? 15 or 16 so far??

feels like that many

74. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2763270)

Shockingly Phil, Halladay has only thrown 5 fewer pitches than Lester.

75. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2763274)

Jesus. That was crushed foul.

76. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2763280)

So has Lester turned into a groundball pitcher or is this just a freakish streak?

77. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2763283)

Yeah, he got away with one there.

While he's gotten a ton of grounders, still feels like he's much more likely to leave a pitch in a bad place and get burned than Halladay tonight.

78. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2763284)

Shockingly Phil, Halladay has only thrown 5 fewer pitches than Lester.

So Lester has only thrown 11?? No wonder we didn't want Johan!!!

79. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:53 PM (#2763286)

Reading comprehension, Phil :-P

80. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2763290)

And now another 4 pitch walk. So random.

81. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2763292)

And now yet another ####### four-pitch walk. Jesus.

82. Third True Outcome Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2763293)

Barry Bonds had a 170 OPS+ last year! What AL team couldn't use a DH like that, especially if he could be had for cheap as people in his camp indicated? It must be collusion

You may well be right, but figure that he's 43, his knees are shot and you'd piss off a significant portion of your fanbase. There's no doubt he can hit, but there's also no doubt it'd be a PR disaster. I think even without collusion, most GMs would be gunshy.

On a more immediately related note, for those of us listening on the radio, how much of Lester's effectiveness tonight is a product of the wide plate? It he hitting spots, or just the recipient of a huge zone tonight?

83. Chip Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2763296)

Coke.

84. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2763297)

In any case, another pitching gem with 0 run support.

85. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2763299)

Lester has been hitting spots outside of some random stretches of wildness.

86. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2763303)

####### weak, Ortiz.

87. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:00 PM (#2763309)

So, how long until Ortiz starts drawing boo birds?

88. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:00 PM (#2763310)

So, how long until Ortiz starts drawing boo birds?

Never

89. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:02 PM (#2763314)

Want to bet?

90. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:04 PM (#2763320)

Lester is at 87 pitches, Halladay is at 85, despite Lester's 4 walks.

91. John DiFool2 Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:04 PM (#2763321)

How can a team which scored 5+ runs in 10 straight games all of a sudden forget how to ####### hit?

92. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2763332)

Want to bet?

I know I never would.

Does that count???

:)

93. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2763333)

Tonight, everyone looks like Lugo at the plate.

The Blue Jays too.

94. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:08 PM (#2763339)

Complete games from both pitchers? Probably
I don't know if it counts if the game goes into extra innings though

95. Textbook Editor Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:08 PM (#2763343)

Re: #87--I live in Philly and watched firsthand the Pat Burrell v.2003 when he crated to .209/.309/.404 and that whole year the Phillies fans bit their tongues and actually tried to encourage him through an awful, season-long slump. Surely if Philly fans can prop up Pat Burrell for a year--having achieved nothing to that point in his career--Red Sox fans can try to prop up Ortiz for all of 2008 and keep hoping he pulls out of it.

What is his BABIP now anyway? It was absurdly low a few weeks ago, but I lost the bookmark I had to look it up.

Side Note: If Lester can even do 75% of this in most of his starts, it would be a plus.

96. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:09 PM (#2763349)

It's not a CG if it goes to extra innigns and the pitcher doesn't pitching until the end. I wouldn't be surprised to see Halladay go 10 innings though.

So, would you send out Lester for the 9th if it's still 0-0?

97. Dan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:11 PM (#2763357)

Ortiz's BABIP is absurdly low because all he hits are weak grounders. It's not like he's killing the ball and hitting it at people.

98. Elevate Phil Coorey Later Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:12 PM (#2763366)

I would kill for a run here in the 8th...

99. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:12 PM (#2763367)

So, would you send out Lester for the 9th if it's still 0-0?

I would. But then I don't cheer for your team.

100. ekogan Posted: April 29, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#2763368)

So, would you send out Lester for the 9th if it's still 0-0?

Yes, on a short leash

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Toronto Blue Jays (11-15) @ Boston Red Sox (15-12), Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 7:05pm

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