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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
* Cities marked with an asterisk could be considered to be part of another city.
Note all mentions of Win Shares on plaques are adjusted to 162 games.
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Monday, August 02, 2004
The Baseball Hall of Merit Plaque Room: Home Page
Enter here to see the players that have been immortalized in the Hall of Merit.
John Murphy is the curator of the Plaque Room and creator (with Ryan Wagman’s help) of the plaques.
David Foss is in charge of the franchise cap standings.
Devin McCullen provides the city and state cap standings.
yest helps us out double-checking the plaques for accuracy.
The whole process is overseen by our commissioner and founder Joe Dimino.
The current roster (237 total) includes (in alphabetical order for each position):
Pitchers (63): Pete Alexander+, Bert Blyleven+, Mordecai Brown, Ray Brown+, Jim Bunning+, Steve Carlton+, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson+, Stan Coveleski, Martín Dihigo+, Don Drysdale+, Dennis Eckersley+, Red Faber+, Bob Feller+, Wes Ferrell, Rollie Fingers, Whitey Ford+, Rube Foster, Willie Foster, Pud Galvin, Bob Gibson+, Rich Gossage+, Clark Griffith, Lefty Grove+*, Carl Hubbell+, Walter Johnson+*, Fergie Jenkins, Tim Keefe, Sandy Koufax+, Bob Lemon, Ted Lyons, Juan Marichal+, Christy Mathewson+**, Joe McGinnity, José Méndez, Hal Newhouser+, Kid Nichols+, Phil Niekro, Satchel Paige+, Jim Palmer+, Gaylord Perry+, Billy Pierce, Eddie Plank, Charley Radbourn, Eppa Rixey, Robin Roberts+, Bullet Rogan+, Red Ruffing, Amos Rusie+, Nolan Ryan, Bret Saberhagen, Tom Seaver+**, Warren Spahn+, Al Spalding, Dave Stieb, Don Sutton+, Dazzy Vance, Rube Waddell, Ed Walsh+, Hoyt Wilhelm+, Smokey Joe Williams, Early Wynn and Cy Young+*.
Catchers (20): Johnny Bench+, Charlie Bennett, Yogi Berra+, Roger Bresnahan, Roy Campanella+, Gary Carter+, Mickey Cochrane+, Bill Dickey, Buck Ewing+, Carlton Fisk+, Bill Freehan, Josh Gibson+, Gabby Hartnett+, Biz Mackey, Cal McVey, Louis Santop+, Ted Simmons+, Joe Torre, Quincy Trouppe and Deacon White+.
First Basemen (19): Cap Anson+, Jake Beckley, Dan Brouthers+**, Will Clark+, Roger Connor+, Jimmie Foxx+, Lou Gehrig+*, Hank Greenberg+, Keith Hernandez+, Harmon Killebrew+, Buck Leonard+, Willie McCovey+, Mark McGwire+, Johnny Mize+, Eddie Murray+, George Sisler, Joe Start, Mule Suttles, and Bill Terry+.
Second Basemen (21): Ross Barnes+, Rod Carew+, Cupid Childs, Eddie Collins, Bobby Doerr, Nellie Fox, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer+, Joe Gordon, Frank Grant, Bobby Grich+, Billy Herman, Rogers Hornsby+**, Nap Lajoie+, Bid McPhee, Joe Morgan+, Willie Randolph, Hardy Richardson, Jackie Robinson+, Ryne Sandberg+, and Lou Whitaker+.
Third Basemen (19): Dick Allen+, Frank Baker+, John Beckwith, Wade Boggs+*, George Brett+**, Ken Boyer, Jimmy Collins, Darrell Evans+, Heinie Groh, Stan Hack, Eddie Mathews+, John McGraw, Paul Molitor+, Graig Nettles, Brooks Robinson, Ron Santo+, Mike Schmidt+*, Ezra Sutton, and Jud Wilson.
Shortstops (25): Luke Appling+, Ernie Banks+, Lou Boudreau, Joe Cronin, Bill Dahlen+, George Davis+, Jack Glasscock, Hughie Jennings, Home Run Johnson, John Henry Lloyd, Dick Lundy, Dobie Moore, Dickey Pearce, Pee Wee Reese+, Cal Ripken, Jr.+**, Joe Sewell, Ozzie Smith+, Alan Trammell+, Arky Vaughan+, Honus Wagner+*, Bobby Wallace, John Ward+, Willie Wells, George Wright and Robin Yount+.
Left Fielders (23): Jesse Burkett, Fred Clarke+, Ed Delahanty+, Goose Goslin, Rickey Henderson+*, Monte Irvin, Charley Jones, Charlie Keller, Joe Kelley, Ralph Kiner, Sherry Magee, Joe Medwick, Minnie Minoso, Stan Musial+*, Tim Raines+, Jimmy Sheckard, Al Simmons+, Willie Stargell+, Harry Stovey, Zack Wheat+, Billy Williams, Ted Williams+*, and Carl Yastrzemski+.
Center Fielders (26): Richie Ashburn+, Earl Averill, Cool Papa Bell, Willard Brown, Pete Browning, Max Carey, Oscar Charleston+, Ty Cobb+, Andre Dawson, Joe DiMaggio+*, Larry Doby+, George Gore+, Billy Hamilton+, Pete Hill+, Paul Hines+ , Mickey Mantle+*, Willie Mays+*, Alejandro Oms, Jim O’Rourke+, Lip Pike, Edd Roush, Duke Snider+, Tris Speaker+, Turkey Stearnes+, Cristóbal Torriente and Jimmy Wynn.
Right Fielders (21): Hank Aaron+*, Roberto Clemente+, Sam Crawford**, Dwight Evans+, Elmer Flick, Tony Gwynn+, Harry Heilmann, Joe Jackson, Reggie Jackson+, Al Kaline+, Willie Keeler, King Kelly+, Mel Ott+, Frank Robinson+**, Pete Rose, Babe Ruth+*, Enos Slaughter+, Reggie Smith, Sam Thompson, Paul Waner+ and Dave Winfield+.
+ first-year candidate honorees (130)
* unanimously first on each voter’s ballot (15)
** placed in “elect me” ballot positions on each voter’s ballot, but not unanimously in first (8)
2009 Franchise Cap Standings
1. Giants - 18 (Bresnahan, WClark, Connor, GDavis, DaEvans, Ewing, Hubbell, Keefe,
Marichal, Mathewson, WMays, McCovey, McGinnity, Ott, GPerry, Rusie, Terry, Ward)
2. Cubs - 16 (Anson, Banks, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett,
BiHerman, Jenkins, KKelly, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, BiWilliams)
3T. Braves - 13 (Aaron, Barnes, Mathews, McVey, Nichols, PNiekro, O'Rourke, Spahn,
Spalding, ESutton, Torre, DWhite, GWright)
3T. Indians - 13 (Averill, Boudreau, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, WFerrell, Flick, JJackson,
Lajoie, Lemon, JSewell, Speaker, EWynn)
3T. Yankees - 13 (Berra, Dickey, Dimaggio, WFord, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Keller,
Mantle, Nettles, Randolph, Ruffing, Ruth)
6T. Cardinals - 12 (KBoyer, Caruthers, Frisch, BGibson, KHernandez, Hornsby, Medwick,
Mize, Musial, TSimmons, Slaughter, OSmith)
6T. Athletics - 12 (FBaker, Cochrane, Eckersley, Fingers, Foxx, Grove, Henderson, McGwire, Plank,
ReJackson, ASimmons, Waddell)
8. Tigers - 11 (Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline,
Newhouser, Trammell, Whitaker)
9. Phillies - 10 (Alexander, DAllen, Ashburn, Carlton, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, RRoberts,
Schmidt, Thompson)
10T. Dodgers - 9 (Campanella, Drysdale, Koufax, PWReese, JRobinson, Snider, DSutton,
Vance, Wheat)
10T. Pirates - 9 (Beckley, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, Kiner, Stargell, Vaughn, Wagner, PWaner)
10T. Reds - 9 (Bench, CJones, Groh, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, FRobinson, Rose, Roush)
10T. White Sox - 9 (Appling, ECollins, Faber, Fox, Lyons, Minoso, BPierce, Walsh, Wilhelm)
14. Red Sox - 8 (Boggs, JCollins, Doerr, DwEvans, Fisk, RSmith, TWilliams, Yastrzemski)
15T. Orioles - 6 (Murray, Palmer, Ripken, BRobinson, Sisler, Wallace)
15T. Twins - 6 (Blyleven, Carew, Cronin, Goslin, WJohnson, Killebrew)
17. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 4 (Jennings, Keeler, Kelley, McGraw)
18T. Buffalo Bisons - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson)
18T. Chicago American Giants - 3 - (WFoster, PHill, Torriente)
18T. Cleveland Spiders - 3 (Burkett, Childs, CYoung)
18T. Homestead Grays - 3 (RBrown, JGibson, BLeonard)
18T. Kansas City Monarchs - 3 (WBrown, DMoore, Rogan)
18T. Nationals - 3 (GCarter, Dawson, Raines)
18T. Saint Louis Stars - 3 (CPBell, Suttles, WWells)
25T. Angels - 2 (Grich, NRyan)
25T. Baltimore Black Sox - 2 (Beckwith, JWilson)
25T. Brewers - 2 (Molitor, Yount)
25T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
25T. Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
25T. New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
25T. Padres - 2 (Gwynn, Winfield)
25T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
25T. Royals - 2 (Brett, Saberhagen)
34T. Almendares Blues - 1 (JMendez)
34T. Astros - 1 (JWynn)
34T. Atlantic City Bacharach Giants - 1 (Lundy)
34T. Blue Jays - 1 (Stieb)
34T. Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
34T. Cleveland Buckeyes - 1 (QTrouppe)
34T. Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
34T. Cuban Stars East - 1 (Oms)
34T. Detroit Stars - 1 (Stearnes)
34T. Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
34T. Habana Reds - 1 (Dihigo)
34T. Hilldale Daisies - 1 (Mackey)
34T. Indianapolis ABC's - 1 (Charleston)
34T. Louisville Colonels - 1 (Browning)
34T. Mets - 1 (Seaver)
34T. Newark Eagles - 1 (Irvin)
34T. Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
34T. Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
34T. Pittsburgh Crawfords - 1 (Paige)
34T. Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike)
2008 Cap Standings by City 1T. Chicago - 28 (Anson, Appling, Banks, M. Brown, J. Clarkson, E. Collins, Dahlen, Faber, B. Foster, Fox, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett, Herman, Hill, Jenkins, Kelly, Lyons, Minoso, Pierce, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, Torriente, Walsh, Wilhelm, Bi. Williams) 1T. New York - 28 (Berra, Bresnahan, Connor, G. Davis, Dickey, DiMaggio, Ewing, Ford, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Hubbell, Keefe, Keller, Lloyd, Mantle, Mathewson, McGinnity, Nettles, Ott, Randolph, Ruffing, Rusie, Ruth, Seaver, Terry, Ward, J. Williams) 3. Philadelphia - 19 (Alexander, Allen, Ashburn, Baker, Carlton, Cochrane, Delahanty, R. Foster, Foxx, Grove, Hamilton, Magee, Plank, Roberts, Schmidt, A. Simmons, H. Stovey, Thompson, Waddell) 4T. Cleveland - 18 (Averill, Boudreau, Burkett, Childs, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, W. Ferrell, Flick, Glasscock, J. Jackson, Lajoie, Lemon, Sewell, Speaker, Trouppe, E. Wynn, Young) 4T. St. Louis - 18 (Bell, Boyer, Caruthers, Frisch, B. Gibson, Hernandez, Hornsby, Medwick, Mize, Musial, Pike, T. Simmons, Sisler, Slaughter, Smith, Suttles, Wallace, Wells) 6. Boston - 16 (Barnes, Boggs, J. Collins, Doerr, Dw. Evans, Fisk, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Smith, Spalding, E. Sutton, White, T. Williams, G. Wright, Yastrzemski) 7T. Detroit - 13 (Bennett, Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline, Newhouser, Stearnes, Trammell, Whitaker) 7T. Pittsburgh - 13 (Beckley, R. Brown, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, J. Gibson, Kiner, B. Leonard, Paige, Stargell, Vaughan, Wagner, Waner) 9T. Baltimore - 10 (Beckwith, Jennings, Keeler, Kelley, McGraw, Murray, Palmer, Ripken, B. Robinson, Wilson) 9T. Brooklyn* - 10 (Campanella, G. Johnson, Pearce, Reese, J. Robinson, Santop, Snider, Start, Vance, Wheat) 11. Cincinnati - 9 (Bench, Groh, Jones, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, F. Robinson, Rose, Roush) 12T. Milwaukee - 6 (Aaron, Mathews, Molitor, Spahn, Torre, Yount) 12T. San Francisco - 6 (Clark, Da. Evans, Marichal, Mays, McCovey, G. Perry) 14T. Kansas City - 5 (Brett, W. Brown, Moore, Rogan, Saberhagen) 14T. Oakland - 5 (Eckersley, Fingers, Henderson, R. Jackson, McGwire) 16T. Buffalo - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson) 16T. Los Angeles - 3 (Drysdale, Koufax, D. Sutton) 16T. Montreal - 3 (Carter, Dawson, Raines) 16T. Minneapolis/St. Paul - 3 (Blyleven, Carew, Killebrew) 16T. Washington, DC - 3 (Cronin, Goslin, W. Johnson) 21T. Anaheim* - 2 (Grich, N. Ryan) 21T. Providence - 2 (Hines, Radbourne) 21T. San Diego – 2 (Gwynn, Winfield) 24T. Almendares* - 1 (Mendez) 24T. Atlanta - 1 (Niekro) 24T. Atlantic City – 1 (Lundy) 24T. Darby, PA* - 1 (Mackey) 24T. Havana - 1 (Dihigo) 24T. Houston - 1 (J. Wynn) 24T. Indianapolis - 1 (Charleston) 24T. Louisville – 1 (Browning) 24T. Newark - 1 (Irvin) 24T. Toronto – 1 (Stieb) N/A - 2 (F. Grant, Oms)
* Cities marked with an asterisk could be considered to be part of another city.
Cap Standings by State, Province, Foreign Country (if there is no knowm state or province) or U.S. Capital: 1. New York (41) 2. Pennsylvania (33) 3. Illinois (28) 4. Ohio (27) 5. Missouri (23) 6. California (18) 7. Massachusetts (16) 8. Michigan (13) 9. Maryland (10) 10. Wisconsin (6) 11. Minnesota, Quebec, District of Columbia (3) 12. Cuba, New Jersey, Rhode Island (2) 13. Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Ontario, Texas (1)
Note all mentions of Win Shares on plaques are adjusted to 162 games.
All Negro League awards mentioned on the plaques are from John Holway’s The Complete Book of Baseball’s Negro Leagues (Fleet Walker Award = MVP; George Stovey Award = Cy Young Award; Rube Foster Award = Playoff MVP).
Primary positions on the plaques will be distinguished from secondary positions on all plaques by bold type.
Seasons are calculated this way: (Games Played/Team’s Scheduled Games). Each result is added up for each season to get the final number shown on each plaque.
We’ll leave the current inductees at the top of the list until the next election ends at the end of this year.
Newly Elected This Year
Rickey Henderson – 2009 – LF/CF/DH
19.7 seasons with: Oakland (AL) 1979-84, 1989-95, 1998; New York (AL) 1985-89; Toronto (AL) 1993; San Diego (NL) 1996, 2001; Anaheim (AL) 1997; New York (NL) 1999-2000; Boston (AL) 2002; Los Angeles (NL) 2003
Cap: Oakland A’s (AL)
The greatest and most prolific base stealer in baseball history (he holds the ML career record for stolen bases with 1,406 and the single-season record with 130 in 1982). “The Man of Steal” is also acclaimed as the finest leadoff batter in ML history due to his unique combination of excellence in both reaching base and for his ability to advance once there. He retired with the career records for both runs (2,295) and walks (2,190), as well as career leadoff home runs (81), while compiling 3,055 hits, and a career OBP of .401. His speed was an asset in the field and blessed with fine hands (he entertained fans with his famous “snatch catch”), Henderson led left fielders in putouts 4 times, both games and fielding percentage twice and double plays once. A member of two wild cards (1999 and 2000), three division-winners (1981, 1992 and 1996) and three pennant-winners (1990 and the World Champions of 1989 and 1993). AL MVP (1990). ALCS MVP (1989). AL Gold Glove (1981). Three-time AL Silver Slugger-OF (1981, 1985 and 1990). Eight-time STATS, Inc. AL Outfielder (1980-81, 1983-86, 1989-90). Three-time Win Shares AL MVP (1981, 1985, 1990). Three-time Win Shares AL Silver Slugger Award (1981, 1985, 1990). Three-time Win Shares AL Gold Glove Award (1980-81, 1986). Eleven-time All-Star (1980, 1982-91). AL leader for OBP (1990), OPS (1990), R (1981, 1985-86, 1989-90), H (1981), BB (1982-83, 1989, 1998), SB (1980-86, 1988-91, 1998), Adj. OPS+ (1990), RC (1990), Adj. BtRuns (1990), BtWins (1990), TOB (1980). OWP (1990), Power/Speed Number (1985-86, 1990, 1993). Retired with the A’s’ career records for R (1,270), BB (1,227), SB (867), RC (1,264), TOB (3,050) and Power/Speed Number (280.1), as well as the Yankees’ single-season records for SB (93 in 1988) and Power/Speed Number (42.4 in 1986) and their career record for SB (326).
John McGraw – 2009 – 3B/SS
8.0 seasons with: Baltimore (AA) 1891; Baltimore (NL) 1892-99; St. Louis (NL) 1900; Baltimore (AL) 1901-02; New York (NL) 1902-06
Cap: Baltimore Orioles (NL)
In addition to his status as one of the game’s legendary managers, the “Little Napoleon” was also the best third baseman of the 1890s (he retired with the hot corner record for career OPS+ with 135). Dedicated to winning at any cost, he took advantage of the rulebook at every opportunity. Holding both the 19th century (all batters) and third baseman single-season (.548) and career (.465) records for OBP, the left-handed leadoff hitter and hit-and-run specialist boasted 7 qualifying seasons with at an OBP over .400 (including twice over .500) and a BA over .300 (including a third baseman record of.334 for his career and the single-season mark of .391 established in 1899), 5 seasons of more than 100 runs and over 100 walks 3 times. One of his era’s fastest players (he stole 438 bases during his career), “Mac” was also regarded as a crack defensive player. Member of two pennant-winners (1894 and 1895) and the Temple Cup winners of 1896 and 1897. Three-time STATS, Inc. AL Third Baseman (1898-1900). NL leader for OBP (1897, 1899-1900), R (1898-99), BB (1898-99), BtWins (1898) and Times on Base (1898). AL leader for HBP (1901). Retired with the Orioles’ franchise single-season records for OBP (.547 in 1899), BB (124 in 1899), OPS+ (tied: 168 in 1899), BtWins (5.5 in 1899) and OWP (.824 in 1899) and the career records for OBP (.461), G (848), AB (3,163), PA (3,915), R (840), BB (642), SB (369), and TOB (1,793).
Reggie Smith - 2009 – RF/CF/1B
12.4 seasons with: Boston (AL) 1966-73; St. Louis (NL) 1974-76; Los Angeles (NL) 1976-81; San Francisco (NL) 1982
Cap: Boston Red Sox (AL)
An outstanding five-tool player with a career OPS+ of 137, Smith was the second-best slugging switch hitter in ML history when he retired (having belted 314 home runs, Smith is the only man to have hit 100 homers in both major leagues; he is also the only player to hit a home run from both sides of the plate in a game twice in each league). The second and last player at the time of his enshrinement to appear in the World Series and All-Star game for both the NL and AL, he topped a .300 BA 6 times, a .500 slugging percentage 5 times, twice hit at least 30 home runs in a season, scored over 100 runs twice and drove in 100 runs once. Smith also had one season with 100 walks and once led the NL in OBP (1977 - .427.) Having one of his generation’s finest arms and plentiful speed on defense, the well respected Smith led his league in assists twice and also once each in games, putouts and double plays (all as a right fielder), as well as once each in assists, putouts and games (as a center fielder.) A member of four pennant-winners (1977, 1978, the “Impossible Dream” team of 1967 and the World Champions of 1981; in his 4 Fall Classic appearances, he hit a combined 6 homers, had 13 RBI and runs scored each and notched a .521 SLG). AL Gold Glove Award winner (1968). Three-time STATS, Inc. NL Outfielder (1974, 1977-78). Three-time Win Shares AL Gold Glove Award (1967-68, 1970). Ten-time All-Star (1969, 1972, 1974-75, 1977-78, 1980). AL leader for TB (1971), 2B (1968, 1971) and XBH (1971). NL leader for OBP (1977), Adj. OPS+ (1977), OWP (1977) and Sac. Flies (1977).
For Hall of Meriters A-F, please click here.
For Hall of Meriters G-L, please click here.
For Hall of Meriters M-R, please click here.
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It's close. His Win Shares for Buffalo are probably in the same range as he would have had at Boston. Whether he would have approved or not shouldn't be the criteria, however (though I'm anal about this).
I do. His Yankee years were not even close to the value of his A's years (and three homeruns in a single WS game are not nearly enough to tip the scales).
but I would have a problem with Clemens wearing a Yankee hat instead of a Boston one.
Agreed.
I don't think Nolan Ryan should have been allowed to wear a Rangers hat, he should have had to have picked between California and Houston.
I'd go with the Angels.
Not likely. WARP3 has any two of his 4 Boston years totaling more than his 5 Buffalo years combined. That said, if he and Dan and Pud and Hardy (if they ever get elected) want to wear Bison caps (pretty good team to never win anything), fine by me. I thought I read somewhere that Cy Young wanted a Spiders cap but the HOF wouldn't go along, or am I mixing that up with somebody else, some other time?
You're probably right. I didn't do a detailed analysis of his NA numbers. Damn Bill James for not including Win Shares for that league! :-)
... or click onto the hyperlink? :-)
http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2032&mode=print&nocache=1056622106
The article, and the discussion at Primate Studies:
http://www.baseballprimer.com/studies/archives/00000028.shtml#comments_15
sheds some more light on what we were discussing earlier about appropriate replacement levels for long-career players.
That will change when Delahanty, Hamilton, Van Haltren, Ryan and Duffy are eligible (all who will be on my ballot).
I thought I read somewhere that Cy Young wanted a Spiders cap but the HOF wouldn't go along, or am I mixing that up with somebody else, some other time?
When was the first batch of Cooperstown plaques designed, produced, displayed? Which inductees were included in the first batch?
Considering Cy Young's stature in 1939, and what he achieved in Cleveland, I am surprised by the anecdote jimd tentatively reported, but I don't know that it is false.
Paul Wendt, Watertown MA
P.S. Has anyone published the list of STATS Inc. Award winners from 1876 to date on the web?
No, I was wrong. Philly it is. First one for that team.
1868: Unions of Morrisania, or "Morrisania[NY] Unions"??
(officially the defending champions)
1866: probably not worth the trouble to list two clubs
You're correct, Paul. I got that information off a website. If I had my Baseball's First Stars at the time, I wouldn't have had made that mistake.
[When Johnny Came Sliding Home Appendix B]
Ryczek does not list Wright as a regular for either Unions or Gothams in 1866.
Five of the plaques lack the count of seasons.
There is a stray comma in Radbourn ", 1881".
I made up a plaque fot the Kid a while back, but that scoundrel Dimino misplaced it! :-) I sent him a new copy a few days ago.
Other than that, good job! Maybe Joe could combine the two.
The Kid was the ace for the pennant winner of 1897 and the champion Boston teams of 1891, 1892, 1893, and 1898.
Re the pennant and the championship, I would say "The Kid was the ace for champion Boston teams of 1891, 1892, 1893, 1897 and 1898" (or 1891-93 and 1897-98).
If you want to distinguish (world) champions from pennant winners, there is more work to be done. Eg, Radbourn led Providence to the pennant and the first "world" championship.
The Kid was the ace for the pennant winner of 1897 and the champion Boston teams of 1891, 1892, 1893, and 1898.
Re the pennant and the championship, I would say "The Kid was the ace for champion Boston teams of 1891, 1892, 1893, 1897 and 1898" (or 1891-93 and 1897-98).
If you want to distinguish (world) champions from pennant winners, there is more work to be done. Eg, Radbourn led Providence to the pennant and the first "world" championship.
Yes, though it's a little complicated.
The first "Cleveland Blues" team was a National League team that began in 1879, and I think were (in some sense) successors to the Indianapolis Blues. But I don't think it was the same "franchise", though calling the late 1870s teams "franchises" is pushing it a bit. They played in the NL until 1884, and after the 1884 season the team folds - to be replaced by the St. Louis team from the Union Association. This first Cleveland Blues team was Glasscock's team.
The second "Cleveland Blues" were an American Association team, who started play in the 1887 season; they had taken the place of the Pittsburgh Alleghenys (the team that is now the Pirates) who defected to the NL after the 1886 season. In 1889, that team also jumped to the National League, renaming itself the Cleveland Spiders. (Columbus took the place of Cleveland in the AA - Incidentally, when the Spiders jumped to the NL, the team improved... whereas the Alleghenys had fallen by 18 games.) This second Cleveland Spiders team was Burkett's team.
In 1900, the team we now know as the Cleveland Indians started as - the Cleveland Blues! They were one of the franchises in the new American League , reaching major league status in 1901. They were known as the Blues for two years, then changed their name to the Cleveland Bronchos in 1902.
This third team became known as the Naps in 1903, and after Lajoie left for the Athletics in 1914, they became known as the Indians, though I would have preferred they continued the tradition of naming the team after the second baseman. "Cleveland Wambsgansses" has a great ring to it.
"Hat: Cleveland Blues (NL 1879-84)"
If the idea is to avoid confusion, then there's likely no real need to change hat-designation-systems until we come to the two franchises named "Washington Senators" in the AL, where a distinction between Senators I and Senators II players would be appropriate.
I believe that Paul's point is that Cleveland Blues (NL) is ambiguous, as there were two franchises that were named the "Cleveland Blues".
Yes.
I'm not sure I agree, . . .
He's right about Glasscock. False alarm.
before St Louis, Pittsburgh, or Brooklyn (all 1880s to date)
He has them all, Sean, so it's just a matter of time. BTW, if you want to add anything to any of the existing ones, send Joe an e-mail (I'm assuming this is the Sean who helped me with the Kid Nichols plaque).
Good plan. You will catch up at a rate of one year every year, if you take my meaning.
Yes, but you had more of your value with the Spiders. As great as you were with the Pilgrims, you were better in Cleveland.
Pittsburgh is newly on the board with Fred Clarke, leaving only St Louis and Brooklyn(Los Angeles) unrepresented, among the eight longtime NL clubs. Bob Caruthers knew those two clubs as winners in the AA; decades later they became bigger all-time winners than their NL mates who are already represented here.
No, Paul, don't do it! I'd like to think of you as the Switzerland of posters.
What's that 1960s Marvel Comics character? The Watcher? That's Paul Wendt...
I'm more of a DC guy, so maybe he's the Phantom Stranger.
Well, I was reading comics during the seventies, so I would say both companies stole liberally from both sides.
I'm not sure. Didn't DC have Superman, Batman, Aquaman and Wonder Woman? I agree Howie that the Marvel characters were much more interesting to me, but I think DC held its own.
I liked Spiderman, Iron Man and the Fantastic Four, in that order.
Of the Marvel characters, I would go with Spiderman, the Hulk, Captain America and the Fantastic Four.
With DC, definitely Batman (my favorite), then the Justice League of America, the Flash, Green Lantern and Superman.
You can count on me, but I'm not sure about the others (especially Joe), though the Hustler is undeniably qualified.
I think it's a great idea, Joe!
Forgot about Green Lantern. I liked him a lot.
I think Chris Cobb is Batman, because he has lots of statistical "gadgets".
We'll make JoeDimino Spiderman, since he's responsible for this "Web" project.
I'd like to be the Green Hornet, if there are no objections. :)
George Wright played with the barnstorming and nearly unbeaten Washington Nationals in 1867, then in 1869 and 1870 he was the unquestioned star of the Cincinnati Red Stockings, the first all-pro baseball team, which won (what?) 112 games in a row or something like that.
It was the Brooklyn Atlantics of Joe Start and Dickey Pearce who finally ended that streak. Start drove in the winning run.
In 1871 when the NA was started, George was pretty much acknowledged as the greatest player in the game right then, though Start had probably had the greatest total career to that time. Sorta like Mantle and Williams circa 1958.
Why don't you vote in our elections? You seem like an intelligent and fun guy. (Plus, you seem to know alot about the pre NL years and would probably have Pike and Pearce pretty high on your ballot. ;-) )
Why don't you vote in our elections? You seem like an intelligent and fun guy. (Plus, you seem to know alot about the pre NL years and would probably have Pike and Pearce pretty high on your ballot. ;-) )
What Rick said. :-D
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
NY 5: Barnes, Start, Sutton, White, Wright,
o + + + + . o + + + :: Wright
Actually, they have been worthwhile (even when I disagreed an aspect of one of them).
BTW, I would place Reach higher, too, FWIW.
--
Many posts -- including the team standings -- have been chopped. Google's cache has been updated and is now post-move. Anyone have the standings saved somewhere?
1. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, Sutton, GWright)
2. Giants - 6 (Connor, Davis, Ewing, Keefe, Rusie, Ward)
3. Cubs - 5 (Anson, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly)
4. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
5T. Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, Young)
5T. Phillies - 2 (Delahanty, Hamilton)
5T. Providence - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
8T. Pirates - 1 (Clarke)
8T. Indians - 1 (Flick)
8T. Reds - 1 (McPhee)
8T. Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
8T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 1 (Start)
8T. Philadephia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
I put JJackson on the Indians, he played a bit more with the Sox, but his peak was with Indians. With the war and the scandal occuring while on the Sox, the Indians seemed like a decent choice.
Kelley & Keeler went to the old Orioles. Could have put Keeler on the Yankees I suppose, but I went with peak.
PROVISIONAL...
SUBJECT TO CHANGE...
INSERT GENERIC DISCLAIMER HERE.... :-)
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, Davis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, Sutton, GWright)
3. Cubs - 6 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly)
4T. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
4T. Phillies - 4 (Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
6. Indians - 3 (Flick, JJackson, Lajoie)
7T. Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
7T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
7T. Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, Young)
7T. Pirates - 2 (Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
12T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 1 (Start)
12T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
12T.Detroit Wolverines (Bennett)
12T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
12T.Philadephia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
12T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
12T.Reds - 1 (McPhee)
12T.Tigers - 1 (Crawford)
12T.White Sox - 1 (Walsh)
12T.Home Run Johnson's Cap - 1
12T.Frank Grant's Cap - 1
12T.Pete Hill's Cap - 1
That's where I have him, too.
Kelley & Keeler went to the old Orioles. Could have put Keeler on the Yankees I suppose, but I went with peak.
I agree.
12T.Home Run Johnson's Cap - 1
12T.Frank Grant's Cap - 1
12T.Pete Hill's Cap - 1
For Johnson, I have him with the Brooklyn Royal Giants. Grant: Cuban Giants. Pete Hill: Chicago American Giants.
Am I imagining this?
Nope... you are correct. He was born in Byron, IL. Started playing NABBP ball 15 miles NE of there for the Rockford Forest City Club. He played at Rockford from 1867-70 along with Ross Barnes. When the NA formed in 1871 he and Barnes jumped to the new Boston Red Stockings which was made up of many former Cincinnati players. He pitched there from 1871-75. When the NL formed he jumped back home to Illinois as player/manager of Chicago having one year good year on the mound and one mediocre year at first base... plus token appearance in 1878.
According to Nemec's 19th Century Encyclopedia: By 1879, Spalding had become part owner of the Chicago Club. Also in that season, balls manufactured by his sporting goods company had replaced the old Mahn ball. In 1882, upon the death of William Hulbert, Spalding assumed the presidency of the Chicago club. They mention him as performing GM-like duties (the trade of King Kelly, etc). I'm not sure
As for the cap. I guess this is for playing careers. He played 4 years in Rockford, 5 years in Boston and 2+ years in Chicago. His 5 years in Boston comprise most of his peak seasons as well. Its not up to me to pick the caps, but seems reasonable to me.
For the same reasons, if Clark Griffith was every inducted, I would suspect that he would wear a Cub hat and not a Senators one.
Also, the "I'm not sure" was the start of me saying I wasn't sure when he finished him front office duties. He died in 1915. His DeadBall Obitiuary mentions him handing the reins over to James Hart in 1895, though Nemec mentions that Spalding betrayed Anson in 1898 which precipiated Cap's leaving the organization. Evidently, Anson had been promised controlling interest in the club and Spalding later reneged.
1930 Standings:
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, Davis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, Sutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4T. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
4T. Phillies - 4 (Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
6. Indians - 3 (Flick, JJackson, Lajoie)
7T. Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
7T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
7T. Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, Young)
7T. Pirates - 2 (Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
12T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 1 (Start)
12T.Brooklyn Royal Giants - 1 (HRJohnson)
12T.Cardinals - 1 (Caruthers)
12T.Chicago American Giants - 1 - (PHill)
12T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
12T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
12T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
12T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
12T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
12T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
12T.Reds - 1 (McPhee)
12T.Tigers - 1 (Crawford)
12T.White Sox - 1 (Walsh)
BTW, if there is something that you want to add to a plaque, feel free by posting it here and I'll take a look at it.
Thanks to Jim Furtado and Dan S for allowing me access to the site (and especially to Joe for giving me the chance to take another burden off his back)!
Sure, maybe in your free time you could add a plaque for Jake Beckley and Rube Foster? I'm sure no one would notice.
All in good time, PhillyBooster. :-)
Its a minor semantic nitpick, but I'm a fan of including pennant winners as a super-set of the World Series winners. That would make a total of 6 pennants for Baker. Contrast this with Fred Clarke's plaque.
Bob Caruthers - P/RF - 1930 (32nd ballot)
It's not an indicator of quality. It would suggest the level of controversy surrounding the choice, as well as pointing to which discussion threads would be dealing with him.
I can redo that. I'll gradually update them during the week(s).
DanG:
The problem that I have with your proposal is that this is supposed to be a tribute for the players. As with the HoF, nothing negative is added to each plaque. There is no mention of the Black Sox with Jackson, for example.
However, your proposal would be beneficial on another thread (maybe a statistical overview page?) Remind me about it after I finish updating this room.
Nice job on Parisian Bob, John; does him justice.
I'm glad that you are happy with it, karlmagnus. I try to place myself in the shoes of each inductee's main advocate here when I create the plaques so as to give that player his due (without going into hyperbole or hagiography.) Obviously, I had you in mind when I was working on Caruthers.
but on Napolian Lajoie's plaque it says
Co-winner of the Chalmers Award (MVP) for his Triple Crown season of 1910.
he won the triple crown in 1901 not 1910 and the Chalmers Award wasn't given in till the next year when Cobb won it. However Chalmers did give him and Cobb a car for the batting title race in 1910.
It appears that I combined two of his seasons. I don't know how I did that, but I'll have it corrected today. Thanks for the heads up!
BTW, please take a close look at the Negro League plaques. There seems to be some disagreement concerning teams played on and pennants won between some of the Negro League histories that I own. It's very possible that I have included a mistake on one of the plaques.
Everbody today knows about Shoeless Joe and "Field of Dreams" but in 20 years time they probably won't, and we should certainly immortalize the Gehrig movie. Also, you had that recent TBS made-for-TV movie with Honus Wagner.
I assume there's an easy reference book for this, though I don't know it, but if there is, it would be great if visitors to the HOM plaque room were able to see a book or movie that could maybe bring out the reality of a player. Obviously if you think it would be a lot of work, not worth it, but might be value added if not (and no, I don't know of any literature about Parisian Bob, though maybe he figures in one of the more obscure Toulouse-Lautrec paintings!)
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