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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, August 02, 2004

The Baseball Hall of Merit Plaque Room: Home Page

Enter here to see the players that have been immortalized in the Hall of Merit.

John Murphy is the curator of the Plaque Room and creator (with Ryan Wagman’s help) of the plaques.

David Foss is in charge of the franchise cap standings.

Devin McCullenn provides the city and state cap standings.

yest helps us out double-checking the plaques for accuracy.

The whole process is overseen by our commissioner and founder Joe Dimino.


The current roster (234 total) includes (in alphabetical order for each position):

Pitchers (63): Pete Alexander+, Bert Blyleven+, Mordecai Brown, Ray Brown+, Jim Bunning+, Steve Carlton+, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson+, Stan Coveleski, Martín Dihigo+, Don Drysdale+, Dennis Eckersley+, Red Faber+, Bob Feller+, Wes Ferrell, Rollie Fingers, Whitey Ford+, Rube Foster, Willie Foster, Pud Galvin, Bob Gibson+, Rich Gossage+, Clark Griffith, Lefty Grove+*, Carl Hubbell+, Walter Johnson+*, Fergie Jenkins, Tim Keefe, Sandy Koufax+, Bob Lemon, Ted Lyons, Juan Marichal+, Christy Mathewson+**, Joe McGinnity, José Méndez, Hal Newhouser+, Kid Nichols+, Phil Niekro, Satchel Paige+, Jim Palmer+, Gaylord Perry+, Billy Pierce, Eddie Plank, Charley Radbourn, Eppa Rixey, Robin Roberts+, Bullet Rogan+, Red Ruffing, Amos Rusie+, Nolan Ryan, Bret Saberhagen, Tom Seaver+**, Warren Spahn+, Al Spalding, Dave Stieb, Don Sutton+, Dazzy Vance, Rube Waddell, Ed Walsh+, Hoyt Wilhelm+, Smokey Joe Williams, Early Wynn and Cy Young+*.

Catchers (20): Johnny Bench+, Charlie Bennett, Yogi Berra+, Roger Bresnahan, Roy Campanella+, Gary Carter+, Mickey Cochrane+, Bill Dickey, Buck Ewing+, Carlton Fisk+, Bill Freehan, Josh Gibson+, Gabby Hartnett+, Biz Mackey, Cal McVey, Louis Santop+, Ted Simmons+, Joe Torre, Quincy Trouppe and Deacon White+.

First Basemen (19): Cap Anson+, Jake Beckley, Dan Brouthers+**, Will Clark+, Roger Connor+, Jimmie Foxx+, Lou Gehrig+*, Hank Greenberg+, Keith Hernandez+, Harmon Killebrew+, Buck Leonard+, Willie McCovey+, Mark McGwire+, Johnny Mize+, Eddie Murray+, George Sisler, Joe Start, Mule Suttles, and Bill Terry+.

Second Basemen (21): Ross Barnes+, Rod Carew+, Cupid Childs, Eddie Collins, Bobby Doerr, Nellie Fox, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer+, Joe Gordon, Frank Grant, Bobby Grich+, Billy Herman, Rogers Hornsby+**, Nap Lajoie+, Bid McPhee, Joe Morgan+, Willie Randolph, Hardy Richardson, Jackie Robinson+, Ryne Sandberg+, and Lou Whitaker+.

Third Basemen (18): Dick Allen+, Frank Baker+, John Beckwith, Wade Boggs+*, George Brett+**, Ken Boyer, Jimmy Collins, Darrell Evans+, Heinie Groh, Stan Hack, Eddie Mathews+, Paul Molitor+, Graig Nettles, Brooks Robinson, Ron Santo+, Mike Schmidt+*, Ezra Sutton, and Jud Wilson.

Shortstops (25): Luke Appling+, Ernie Banks+, Lou Boudreau, Joe Cronin, Bill Dahlen+, George Davis+, Jack Glasscock, Hughie Jennings, Home Run Johnson, John Henry Lloyd, Dick Lundy, Dobie Moore, Dickey Pearce, Pee Wee Reese+, Cal Ripken, Jr.+**, Joe Sewell, Ozzie Smith+, Alan Trammell+, Arky Vaughan+, Honus Wagner+*, Bobby Wallace, John Ward+, Willie Wells, George Wright and Robin Yount+.

Left Fielders (21): Jesse Burkett, Fred Clarke+, Ed Delahanty+, Goose Goslin, Charley Jones, Charlie Keller, Joe Kelley, Ralph Kiner, Sherry Magee, Joe Medwick, Minnie Minoso, Stan Musial+*, Tim Raines+, Jimmy Sheckard, Al Simmons+, Willie Stargell+, Harry Stovey, Zack Wheat+, Billy Williams, Ted Williams+*, and Carl Yastrzemski+.

Center Fielders (27): Richie Ashburn+, Earl Averill, Cool Papa Bell, Willard Brown, Pete Browning, Max Carey, Oscar Charleston+, Ty Cobb+, Andre Dawson, Joe DiMaggio+*, Larry Doby+, George Gore+, Billy Hamilton+, Pete Hill+, Paul Hines+ , Monte Irvin, Mickey Mantle+*, Willie Mays+*, Alejandro Oms, Jim O’Rourke+, Lip Pike, Edd Roush, Duke Snider+, Tris Speaker+, Turkey Stearnes+, Cristóbal Torriente and Jimmy Wynn.

Right Fielders (20): Hank Aaron+*, Roberto Clemente+, Sam Crawford**, Dwight Evans+, Elmer Flick, Tony Gwynn+, Harry Heilmann, Joe Jackson, Reggie Jackson+, Al Kaline+, Willie Keeler, King Kelly+, Mel Ott+, Frank Robinson+**, Pete Rose, Babe Ruth+*, Enos Slaughter+, Sam Thompson, Paul Waner+ and Dave Winfield+.

+ first-year candidate honorees (129)

* unanimously first on each voter’s ballot (14)

** placed in “elect me” ballot positions on each voter’s ballot, but not unanimously in first (8)

2008 Franchise Cap Standings
1.   Giants - 18 (Bresnahan, WClark, Connor, GDavis, DaEvans, Ewing, Hubbell, Keefe,
     Marichal, Mathewson, WMays, McCovey, McGinnity, Ott, GPerry, Rusie, Terry, Ward)
2.   Cubs - 16 (Anson, Banks, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett,
     BiHerman, Jenkins, KKelly, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, BiWilliams)
3T.  Braves - 13 (Aaron, Barnes, Mathews, McVey, Nichols, PNiekro, O'Rourke, Spahn,
     Spalding, ESutton, Torre, DWhite, GWright)
3T.  Indians - 13 (Averill, Boudreau, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, WFerrell, Flick, JJackson,
     Lajoie, Lemon, JSewell, Speaker, EWynn)
3T.  Yankees - 13 (Berra, Dickey, Dimaggio, WFord, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Keller,
     Mantle, Nettles, Randolph, Ruffing, Ruth)
6.   Cardinals - 12 (KBoyer, Caruthers, Frisch, BGibson, KHernandez, Hornsby, Medwick,
     Mize, Musial, TSimmons, Slaughter, OSmith)
7T.  Athletics - 11 (FBaker, Cochrane, Eckersley, Fingers, Foxx, Grove, McGwire, Plank,
     ReJackson, ASimmons, Waddell)
7T.  Tigers - 11 (Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline,
     Newhouser, Trammell, Whitaker)
9.   Phillies - 10 (Alexander, DAllen, Ashburn, Carlton, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, RRoberts,
     Schmidt, Thompson)
10T. Dodgers - 9 (Campanella, Drysdale, Koufax, PWReese, JRobinson, Snider, DSutton, 
     Vance, Wheat)
10T. Pirates - 9 (Beckley, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, Kiner, Stargell, Vaughn, Wagner, PWaner)
10T. Reds - 9 (Bench, CJones, Groh, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, FRobinson, Rose, Roush)
10T. White Sox - 9 (Appling, ECollins, Faber, Fox, Lyons, Minoso, BPierce, Walsh, Wilhelm)
14.  Red Sox - 7 (Boggs, JCollins, Doerr, DwEvans, Fisk, TWilliams, Yastrzemski)
15T. Orioles - 6 (Murray, Palmer, Ripken, BRobinson, Sisler, Wallace)
15T. Twins - 6 (Blyleven, Carew, Cronin, Goslin, WJohnson, Killebrew)
17T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 3 (Jennings, Keeler, Kelley)
17T. Buffalo Bisons - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson)
17T. Chicago American Giants - 3 - (WFoster, PHill, Torriente)
17T. Cleveland Spiders - 3 (Burkett, Childs, CYoung)
17T. Homestead Grays - 3 (RBrown, JGibson, BLeonard)
17T. Kansas City Monarchs - 3 (WBrown, DMoore, Rogan)
17T. Nationals - 3 (GCarter, Dawson, Raines)
17T. Saint Louis Stars - 3 (CPBell, Suttles, WWells)
25T. Angels - 2 (Grich, NRyan)
25T. Baltimore Black Sox - 2 (Beckwith, JWilson)
25T. Brewers - 2 (Molitor, Yount)
25T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
25T. Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
25T. New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
25T. Padres - 2 (Gwynn, Winfield)
25T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
25T. Royals - 2 (Brett, Saberhagen)
34T. Almendares Blues - 1 (JMendez)
34T. Astros - 1 (JWynn)
34T. Atlantic City Bacharach Giants - 1 (Lundy)
34T. Blue Jays - 1 (Stieb)
34T. Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
34T. Cleveland Buckeyes - 1 (QTrouppe)
34T. Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
34T. Cuban Stars East - 1 (Oms)
34T. Detroit Stars - 1 (Stearnes)
34T. Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
34T. Habana Reds - 1 (Dihigo)
34T. Hilldale Daisies - 1 (Mackey)
34T. Indianapolis ABC's - 1 (Charleston)
34T. Louisville Colonels - 1 (Browning)
34T. Mets - 1 (Seaver)
34T. Newark Eagles - 1 (Irvin)
34T. Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
34T. Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
34T. Pittsburgh Crawfords - 1 (Paige)
34T. Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike)

2008 Cap Standings by City
1T.  Chicago - 28 (Anson, Appling, Banks, BrownM, ClarksonJ, CollinsE, Dahlen, 
Faber, FosterW, Fox, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett, HermanB, HillP, Jenkins, KellyK, Lyons, 
Minoso, PierceB, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, Torriente, Walsh, Wilhelm, WilliamsBi)
1T.  New York - 28 (Berra, Bresnahan, Connor, DavisG, Dickey, DiMaggioJ, Ewing, 
FordW, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Hubbell, Keefe, Keller, Lloyd, Mantle, Mathewson, McGinnity, 
Nettles, Ott, Randolph, Ruffing, Rusie, Ruth, Seaver, Terry, Ward, WilliamsSJ)
3.   Philadelphia - 19 (Alexander, AllenD, Ashburn, BakerF, Carlton, Cochrane, Delahanty, 
FosterR, Foxx, Grove, Hamilton, Magee, Plank, RobertsR, Schmidt, SimmonsA, StoveyH, Thompson,
 Waddell)
4T.  Cleveland - 18 (Averill, Boudreau, Burkett, Childs, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, FerrellW, 
Flick, Glasscock, JacksonJ, Lajoie, Lemon, SewellJ, Speaker, TrouppeQ, WynnE, YoungC)
4T.  St. Louis - 18 (BellCP, BoyerK, Caruthers, Frisch, GibsonB, HernandezK, Hornsby, 
Medwick, Mize, Musial, Pike, SimmonsT, Sisler, Slaughter, Smith, Suttles, Wallace, WellsW)
6.   Boston - 15 (Barnes, Boggs, CollinsJ, Doerr, EvansDw, Fisk, McVey, Nichols, 
O'Rourke, Spalding, SuttonE, WhiteD, WilliamsT, WrightG, Yastrzemski)
7T.  Detroit - 13 (Bennett, Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, 
Heilmann, Kaline, Newhouser, Stearnes, Trammell, Whitaker)
7T.  Pittsburgh - 13 (Beckley, BrownR, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, GibsonJ, Kiner, 
LeonardB, Paige, Stargell, Vaughan, Wagner, WanerP)
9.   Brooklyn* - 10 (Campanella, JohnsonHR, Pearce, Reese, RobinsonJ, Santop, 
Snider, Start, Vance, Wheat)
10T. Baltimore - 9 (Beckwith, Jennings, Keeler, Kelley, Murray, Palmer, Ripken, 
RobinsonB, WilsonJ)
10T. Cincinnati - 9 (Bench, Groh, Jones, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, RobinsonF, Rose, Roush)
12T. Milwaukee - 6 (Aaron, Mathews, Molitor, Spahn, Torre, Yount)
12T. San Francisco - 6 (ClarkW, EvansDa, Marichal, MaysW, McCovey, PerryG)
14.  Kansas City - 5 (Brett, BrownW, MooreD, Rogan, Saberhagen)
15.  Oakland - 4 (Eckersley, Fingers, JacksonR, McGwire)
16T. Buffalo - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson)
16T. Los Angeles - 3 (Drysdale, Koufax, SuttonD)
16T. Montreal - 3 (CarterG, Dawson, Raines)
16T. Minneapolis/St. Paul - 3 (Blyleven, Carew, Killebrew)
16T. Washington, DC - 3 (Cronin, Goslin, JohnsonW)
21T. Anaheim* - 2 (Grich, RyanN)
21T. Providence - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
21T. San Diego – 2 (Gwynn, Winfield)
24T. Almendares* - 1 (Mendez)
24T. Atlanta - 1 (NiekroP)
24T. Atlantic City – 1 (Lundy)
24T. Darby, PA* - 1 (Mackey)
24T. Havana - 1 (Dihigo)
24T. Houston - 1 (WynnJ)
24T. Indianapolis - 1 (Charleston)
24T. Louisville – 1 (Browning)
24T. Newark - 1 (Irvin)
24T. Toronto – 1 (Stieb)
N/A - 2 (GrantF, Oms)

* Cities marked with an asterisk could be considered to be part of another city.

Cap Standings by State, Province, Foreign Country (if there is no knowm state or province) 
or U.S. Capital:
1.  New York (41)
2.  Pennsylvania (33)
3.  Illinois (28)
4.  Ohio (27)
5.  Missouri (23)
6.  California (17)
7.  Massachusetts (15)
8.  Michigan (13)
9.  Maryland (9)
10. Wisconsin (6)
11. Minnesota, Quebec, District of Columbia (3)
12. Cuba, New Jersey, Rhode Island (2)
13. Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Ontario, Texas (1)



Note all mentions of Win Shares on plaques are adjusted to 162 games.

All Negro League awards mentioned on the plaques are from John Holway’s The Complete Book of Baseball’s Negro Leagues (Fleet Walker Award = MVP; George Stovey Award = Cy Young Award; Rube Foster Award = Playoff MVP).

Primary positions on the plaques will be distinguished from secondary positions on all plaques by bold type.

Seasons are calculated this way: (Games Played/Team’s Scheduled Games). Each result is added up for each season to get the final number shown on each plaque.

We’ll leave the current inductees at the top of the list for three weeks after they are inducted.



Newly Elected This Fortnight and a Week



Tim Raines – 2008 – LF/CF/DH
15.4 seasons with: Montreal (NL) 1979-90, 2001; Chicago (AL) 1991-95; New York (AL) 1996-98; Oakland (AL) 1999; Baltimore (AL) 2001; Florida (NL) 2002
Cap: Montreal Expos (NL)
The most exciting and best left fielder in the National League during the 1980s, “Rock” combined spectacular speed with an exceptional ability to get on base to become one of baseball’s greatest ever run scorers (including 6 seasons with over 100 runs scored and 1,571 in his career). One of only a handful of men to steal 800 bases (808) he left the game with the highest SB success rate on over 300 attempts in ML history (84.7%), the right-handed leadoff hitter also stole 70 or more bases 6 times (1981-1986) with a high of 90 in 1983. At bat, he hit over .300 five times, walked 1,330 times in his career and had a OBP over .400 4 times (.385 career). Blessed with great range in the outfield, Raines led left fielders 3 times in assists, twice each in putouts and double plays and once in games (he also topped right fielders once in games). A member of three division-winners (1981, 1993, 1997) and two pennant-winners (the World Champions of 1996 and 1998). ML-AS MVP (1987); batted .301 in league championship series’, his 1993 batting line of .444/.483/.556 was his best at that level. NL Silver Slugger-OF (1986). Four-time STATS, Inc. NL Outfielder (1981, 1983, 1986-87). Three-time Win Shares NL MVP (1985-87). Two-time Win Shares NL Silver Slugger Award (1985-86). Win Shares NL Gold Glove Award (1984). Seven-time All-Star (1981-87). NL leader for BA (1986), OBP (1986), PA (1982-83), R (1983, 1987), 2B (1984), SB (1981-84), TOB (1983-84, 1986) and OWP (1986). Retired with the Expos’ single-season records for PA (731 in 1982) R (133 in 1983) and 3B (13 in 1985), as well as the career records for R (947), 1B (1,163), 3B (82), BB (793), SB (635), BtRuns (266), BtWins (26.0), TOB (2,440) and IBB (118).

Dick Lundy – 2008 – SS/2B/3B/C
Atlantic City Bacharach Giants (1916-18, 1920-28); Havana Red Sox (1917); Hilldale Daisies (1917-19); New York Lincoln Giants; Baltimore Black Sox (1929-32); Philadelphia Stars (1933); Newark Dodgers (1934-35); New York Cubans (1935); Newark Eagles (1936-39); Brooklyn Royal Giants
Cap: Atlantic City Bacharach Giants
Among Negro League baseball’s most exalted performers and a member of the famed Baltimore “million-dollar infield” of 1929, “King Richard” mixed expert play, showmanship and leadership (he was team captain for 1923-25) to become a NeL standout over a long career. As a batter, the switch-hitter was able to contribute both average (a career .330 hitter in the NeL and .341 in the CWL, he attained a .484 BA in the NeL in 1924) and double and triple power. Very fast, he intimidated opposing pitchers and fielders on the basepaths. One of the finest fielding shortstops in baseball history, Lundy showcased both great range and a terrific arm and while noted for playing very deep. In the 1926 NeL World Series, he performed admirably by hitting.325, driving in 6 RBI, scoring 4 runs and stealing 6 bases. Member of seven Eastern pennant-winners (1921, 1923, 1926-29, 1935). Fleet Walker Award (1926). Five-time Holway All-Star (1919, 1921, 1926, 1931-32). Two-time NeL All-Star (1933). NeL Eastern leader for BA (1921), 2B (1926) and 3B (1921, 1923). CWL leader in SB (1924).

Bret Saberhagen – 2008 – P
Kansas City (AL) 1984-91; New York (NL) 1992-95; Colorado (NL) 1995; Boston (AL) 1997-2001
Cap: Kansas City Royals (AL)
One of the youngest ever Cy Young Award winners, “Sabes” was the poised ace of the Royals’ staff from age 21. Credited with an impressive .588 career winning percentage and a 126 ERA+, the right-handed control pitcher with 90+ MPH fastball notched 20 wins twice and had 3 sub-2.00 ERA seasons, as well as being the only pitcher to have more wins (14) than walks (13) in a season (1994) since the inception of the Lively Ball era. A member of two division series (1995, 1998), two championship series (1984, 1999) and the World Champions of 1985 (he won two complete games, including a shutout in Game Seven, with a microscopic 0.50 ERA). Two-time AL Cy Young Award winner (1985, 1989). ML-WS MVP (1985). AL Gold Glove Award (1989). No-Hitter (1991). Two-time STATS, Inc. AL Staff Pitcher (1985, 1989). STATS, Inc. NL Staff Pitcher (1994). Two-time Win Shares AL Pitcher of the Year (1985, 1989). Three-time All-Star (1987, 1990, 1994). AL leader in ERA (1989), W (1989), WHIP (1985, 1989), BB/9IP (1985), IP (1989), CG (1989), SO to BB (1985, 1987, 1989) and Adj. ERA+ (1989). NL leader for BB/9IP (1994) and SO to BB (1994). Retired with the Royals’ franchise single-season records for W (23 in 1989), SO to BB (4.49 in 1989) and Adj. ERA+ (180 in 1989); the Royals’ career records for WHIP (1.134) and SO to BB (3.30); the Mets’ single-season records for BB/9IP (0.66 in 1994) and SO to BB (11.00 in 1994); and the Mets’ career records for BB/9IP (1.32) and SO to BB (5.04).

For Hall of Meriters A-F, please click here.

For Hall of Meriters G-L, please click here.

For Hall of Meriters M-R, please click here.

For Hall of Meriters S-Z, please click here.

Joe Dimino Posted: August 02, 2004 at 01:37 PM | 1364 comment(s)
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Page 14 of 14 pages « FirstP  <  4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
   1301. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 02, 2007 at 09:25 PM (#2557026)
I think Dawson got in by drawing a mixture of support from peak/primers impressed by his 1980-83 run and straight career WS voters giving him credit for his worthless final four years.
   1302. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 22, 2007 at 10:31 PM (#2589808)
New plaques are up!
   1303. Chris Fluit Posted: October 22, 2007 at 10:38 PM (#2589823)
Hey John. I thought that the precedent was to assign players caps according to their home countries. That's why Dihigo is with the Habana Reds and Mendez is with the Almendares Blues. I guess I just figured that if Oms ever got in, it would be with his native Santa Clara cap even if he played more seasons in the US with the Cuban Stars.
   1304. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 22, 2007 at 10:45 PM (#2589833)
Hey John. I thought that the precedent was to assign players caps according to their home countries.


No, caps are assigned for the team that was given the most value from that player, Chris.
   1305. Chris Fluit Posted: October 22, 2007 at 10:53 PM (#2589842)
I guess I was just remembering the Quincy Trouppe plaque- we went with the Cleveland Buckeyes rather than his Mexican team.
   1306. Chris Fluit Posted: October 22, 2007 at 10:54 PM (#2589844)
ps. Not trying to be difficult. I'm glad with gave Trouppe the Buckeyes, and I'd prefer we give Oms Santa Clara, but it's not a big deal.
   1307. DavidFoss Posted: October 22, 2007 at 11:14 PM (#2589861)
Giants, Cuban Stars and Yankees each get caps thanks to Will Clark, Alejandro Oms and Graig Nettles

Oms didn't get a chance to play major league baseball, but if he did, the 20s and 30s were loaded with great Yankee & Giant teams.

Speaking of which, the Yankee & Giant clubs are the winningest franchises in their respective leagues and have met several times in the World Series. The Giants won the first two meetings (1921, 1922) as the senior tennant in two all-Polo-Grounds Series. Once Yankee Stadium opened, the Yankees have prevailed in their next five meetings -- 1923, 1936, 1937, 1951 and in 1962 after the Giants moved to the West Coast.

Giants extend their cap lead and the Yankees climb into the a tie for 3rd.

2006 Franchise Cap Standings

1. Giants - 18 (Bresnahan, WClark, Connor, GDavis, DaEvans, Ewing, Hubbell, Keefe, Marichal, Mathewson, WMays, McCovey, McGinnity, Ott, GPerry, Rusie, Terry, Ward)
2. Cubs - 16 (Anson, Banks, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett, BiHerman, Jenkins, KKelly, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, BiWilliams)
3T. Braves - 13 (Aaron, Barnes, Mathews, McVey, Nichols, PNiekro, O'Rourke, Spahn, Spalding, ESutton, Torre, DWhite, GWright)
3T. Indians - 13 (Averill, Boudreau, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, WFerrell, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Lemon, JSewell, Speaker, EWynn)
3T. Yankees - 13 (Berra, Dickey, Dimaggio, WFord, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Keller, Mantle, Nettles, Randolph, Ruffing, Ruth)
5. Cardinals - 12 (KBoyer, Caruthers, Frisch, BGibson, KHernandez, Hornsby, Medwick, Mize, Musial, TSimmons, Slaughter, OSmith)
7. Tigers - 11 (Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline, Newhouser, Trammell, Whitaker)
8T. Athletics - 10 (FBaker, Cochrane, Eckersley, Fingers, Foxx, Grove, Plank, ReJackson, ASimmons, Waddell)
8T. Phillies - 10 (Alexander, DAllen, Ashburn, Carlton, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, RRoberts, Schmidt, Thompson)
9T. Dodgers - 9 (Campanella, Drysdale, Koufax, PWReese, JRobinson, Snider, DSutton, Vance, Wheat)
9T. Pirates - 9 (Beckley, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, Kiner, Stargell, Vaughn, Wagner, PWaner)
9T. Reds - 9 (Bench, CJones, Groh, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, FRobinson, Rose, Roush)
9T. White Sox - 9 (Appling, ECollins, Faber, Fox, Lyons, Minoso, BPierce, Walsh, Wilhelm)
14. Red Sox - 7 (Boggs, JCollins, Doerr, DwEvans, Fisk, TWilliams, Yastrzemski)
15. Twins - 6 (Blyleven, Carew, Cronin, Goslin, WJohnson, Killebrew)
16. Orioles - 5 (Murray, Palmer, BRobinson, Sisler, Wallace)
17T.Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 3 (Jennings, Keeler, Kelley)
17T.Buffalo Bisons - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson)
17T.Chicago American Giants - 3 - (WFoster, PHill, Torriente)
17T.Cleveland Spiders - 3 (Burkett, Childs, CYoung)
17T.Homestead Grays - 3 (RBrown, JGibson, BLeonard)
17T.Kansas City Monarchs - 3 (WBrown, DMoore, Rogan)
17T.Saint Louis Stars - 3 (CPBell, Suttles, WWells)
24T.Angels - 2 (Grich, NRyan)
24T.Baltimore Black Sox - 2 (Beckwith, JWilson)
24T.Brewers - 2 (Molitor, Yount)
24T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
24T.Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
24T.Nationals - 2 (GCarter, Dawson)
24T.New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
24T.Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
31T.Almendares Blues - 1 (JMendez)
31T.Astros - 1 (JWynn)
31T.Blue Jays - 1 (Stieb)
31T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
31T.Cleveland Buckeyes - 1 (QTrouppe)
31T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
31T.Cuban Stars East - 1 (Oms)
31T.Detroit Stars - 1 (Stearnes)
31T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
31T.Habana Reds - 1 (Dihigo)
31T.Hilldale Daisies - 1 (Mackey)
31T.Indianapolis ABC's - 1 (Charleston)
31T.Louisville Colonels - 1 (Browning)
31T.Mets - 1 (Seaver)
31T.Newark Eagles - 1 (Irvin)
31T.Padres - 1 (Winfield)
31T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
31T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
31T.Pittsburgh Crawfords - 1 (Paige)
31T.Royals - 1 (Brett)
31T.Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike)
   1308. Devin McCullen has no value to Eastern Europe Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:28 AM (#2589897)
Hey, John, what time today did you start on the Nettles plaque? ;-)
   1309. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 23, 2007 at 06:48 AM (#2589948)
Hey, John, what time today did you start on the Nettles plaque? ;-)


As soon it was confirmed that he won, Devin. :-)
   1310. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 23, 2007 at 07:01 AM (#2589949)
I guess I was just remembering the Quincy Trouppe plaque- we went with the Cleveland Buckeyes rather than his Mexican team.


The same rule applies, Chris. He created more value with the Buckeyes than he did with any of his Mexican League teams.
   1311. Chris Fluit Posted: October 23, 2007 at 08:21 AM (#2589965)
Either way, Oms gets us our 51st different cap. Browning gave us our 50th.
   1312. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 24, 2007 at 12:02 PM (#2591475)
Regarding Oms:

A member of one NeL East-West winner (second-half) and four Cuban Winter League championship teams.

Which teams and years were these?
   1313. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 24, 2007 at 12:34 PM (#2591520)
I'll add those teams sometime today, Ivan.
   1314. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 24, 2007 at 12:41 PM (#2591524)
Great thanks! I really don't know the answer.
   1315. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 24, 2007 at 01:50 PM (#2591601)
I added all of the ones that I could find, Ivan, but I still can't find the Almendares team that Oms was on when they won the championship. Does anyone know someone who might know the season that was?
   1316. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 24, 2007 at 02:10 PM (#2591633)
According to Wikipedia the 1945-46 Elefantes de Cienfuegos team won a title as well. Was Oms not on that team?
   1317. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 24, 2007 at 02:15 PM (#2591642)
According to Wikipedia the 1945-46 Elefantes de Cienfuegos team won a title as well. Was Oms not on that team?


That looks like the right year, Ivan. Very confusing trying to find this information on the Net.
   1318. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 24, 2007 at 02:21 PM (#2591650)
Oops! I guess the team was called the Petroleros till 1950. Still don't know which Almendares team he was on that won though.
   1319. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 24, 2007 at 02:36 PM (#2591678)
According to Cubanball.com Almendares won in 1939-40. Wasn't Oms on that team as well?
   1320. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 24, 2007 at 03:55 PM (#2591805)
Wasn't Oms on that team as well?


You got me, Ivan. If someone knows, please let me know.
   1321. Brent Posted: October 25, 2007 at 12:36 AM (#2592762)
I spent a few minutes looking through Figueredo for info that might be appropriate for the Oms plaque. I count 6 Cuban League penant winners on which Oms had significant playing time:
1923-24 - Santa Clara
1927-28 - Habana
1928-29 - Habana
1935-36 - Santa Clara
1937-38 - Santa Clara
1939-40 - Almendares
He was a regular on the first four teams and a part-time player/4th outfielder on the last two.

Finally, in 1945-46 he had 1 AB with pennant winner, Cienfuegos. I probably wouldn't include it on his plque.

Again, I wouldn't mention it on his plaque, but he also played for the champion of the Spring 1924 special season, Santa Clara. Special seasons generally aren't counted the same as regular league championships. Also, in 1932-33 his team, Habana, tied for the league lead with Almendares, but political turmoil prevented a playoff series from being held.

Some other times he led the Cuban League in hitting categories:
Runs scored - 1931-32
Hits - 1931-32
Doubles - 1924-25 (tied), 28-29, 32-33
HR - 1931-32

His batting average in 1928-29, .432, is regarded as the single-season Cuban League record by Figueredo (who, I suppose is the de facto record keeper for the league.)

Ranking on Cuban League career leader boards:
5th in runs scored (373)
10th in doubles (99)
8th in triples (35)
6th in stolen bases (101)
2nd in average (.345) (1st place is held by Torriente)

The batting average ranking is definitely worth mentioning. The others are probably less impressive, since several non-HoM players rank ahead of him (though most of the players who rank ahead of him in the counting statistics had the advantage of playing in longer seasons during the 1940s and 50s).
   1322. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 25, 2007 at 07:59 AM (#2592863)
Thanks, Brent! I'll update his plaque sometime today.
   1323. Chris Fluit Posted: October 28, 2007 at 04:02 PM (#2597210)
Back in January, I wrote some comments about the various expansion teams and their expectations of caps. I thought it would be fun to review those comments:

1961: The Angels are already on the board with Bobby Grich. However, it might be a long time before Grich has any company especially if we decide to give Ryan an Astros cap.
And we did indeed give Ryan the Angels cap making the Angels one of three expansion teams with more than one cap.

1961: The Rangers are going to be waiting a long time. Their first real candidate is Kevin Brown and he isn't eligible until 2011. Their first slamdunk candidate is Ivan Rodriguez and he's not even done playing yet.
Kevin Brown is looking more and more like a sure thing for the HoM in 2011 so the Rangers should get a representative sooner rather than later. Though it's not a sure thing that Brown actually goes in as a Ranger. For now, the Rangers are the only '60s expansion franchise without a cap.

1962: The Astros look to be in pretty good shape for getting their first cap as Jimmy Wynn has been one of the top backloggers for some time. They could get a second one in Ryan, unless he goes to the Angels. If not Ryan, Wynn will have to wait for company until Bagwell becomes eligible in 2011.
As mentioned previously, Ryan went in as an Angel, leaving Wynn as the sole Astro until Bagwell and Biggio become eligible in 2011 and 2013.

1962: The Mets are in with one thanks to Seaver. At this point, there's no clear candidate for number two.
There are actually candidates to be number two, three and four. Gooden is receiving a handful of votes, though he's nowhere close to induction. Rusty Staub has been a top twenty-five backlogger. And now David Cone looks to be a legitimate candidate (though he may be considered a Yankee).

1969: The Royals will be guaranteed a cap in 1999 thanks to George Brett. But he'll be their one and only for awhile.
Bret Saberhagen is making a run at being the Royals second cap.

1969: The Padres might not get a cap until 2007 when Tony Gwynn becomes eligible, though we could always follow the other Hall's lead and induct Winfield as a Padre instead of as a Yankee.
And we did follow the HoF lead, inducting Winfield as a Padre. Gwynn will join him after the next election.

1969: The Brewers, like the Royals, are guaranteed a cap in 1999 thanks to Robin Yount. They'll probably get a second one shortly after that as Paul Molitor is eligible in 2004. (And I thought they'd get one earlier than that but despite my recollections, Ted Simmons clearly goes in as a Cardinal not a Brewer.)
The Brewers got both, joining the Angels as an expansion team with two caps.

1969: The Expos/Nationals could be the first expansion franchise to three caps depending on what we do with Gary Carter (eligible in 1998), Andre Dawson (2002) and Tim Raines (2008). They'll at least get the one for Carter before we're done.
So far so good for the Expos/Nationals. We elected Dawson already and Raines looks like a lock for 2008. That would make the Expos the first expansion franchise to three caps. One can never predict the future, but Vladimir Guerrero could one day help them be the first to four as well.

That's the first eight franchises. With the exception of the Rangers, they should all have one before we're done though no more than three will have a second cap (Astros or Angels but not both, Brewers, possibly Expos).

The outlook for the newer franchises is even bleaker.
1977: The Mariners can look forward to plenty of future caps- possibly as early as 2010 when Edgar Martinez is eligible- but they'll be left out 'til then.

2010 is a packed year. Edgar might have to wait until 2011 or 2012.

1977: The Blue Jays could get lucky with Dave Stieb who is eligible in 1998 which would make them the only one of the later franchises to have a cap by the time we catch up to the Hall of Fame. If not him, they'll have to wait until Roberto Alomar is eligible in 2010.
And Stieb got in, making the Blue Jays the only one of the later expansion franchises to have a representative.

1993: The Rockies have a couple of outside candidates eligible in 2010 and 2011 with Andres Galarraga and Larry Walker but neither candidate is a shoo-in.
Galarraga probably won't get in. Walker has a better chance, though he may have to wait 'til 2012.

1993: The Marlins best bet at this point is Gary Sheffield.
Still waiting on Sheff to retire.

1998: The Diamondbacks best candidate is Randy Johnson but that also depends on how the caps are awarded as he could go in as a Mariner.
Still waiting on Johnson to retire.

1998: The Devil Rays could have a HoMer in Fred McGriff but if he goes in it'll be as a Blue Jay or a Brave.
McGriff is looking better for induction as the backlog dries up. He'll be fighting it out with Edgar and Walker. Though, it's still unlikely that he'll go in as a Devil Ray. That means that Tampa Bay is waiting to have a Meritorious player, let alone waiting for one to retire.

I don't think the Orioles or the Red Sox have to worry about having an expansion franchise catch them in the standings for a long time.

Still true. The Red Sox are up to 7, the Twins are at 6 and Ripken will give the Orioles a 6th this year. With strong backloggers like Reggie Smith and Kirby Puckett, and with future eligibles like Mike Mussina, the trailing members of the original 16 should keep quite a gap between themselves and the best of the expansion teams.
   1324. Evan Posted: October 29, 2007 at 09:19 AM (#2598539)
With Nettles' election, the Yankees will become the 2nd team (after the Cubs) to field an entire starting lineup of HOMers once Jeter becomes eligible.
   1325. Chris Fluit Posted: October 29, 2007 at 11:51 AM (#2598745)
Actually, the Giants might beat them to it. The Giants can already do it if you move Ward to 2B and McCovey to LF, positions they actually played though not as their primary position. However, the Giants should be getting a legitimate line-up soon enough with a LF in Bonds and probably a 2B in Kent. And both of those guys are likely to be eligible before Jeter. The Yankees will get there but if they want to beat the Giants, they'll have to hope Rizzuto follows Nettles up the chart.
   1326. DL from MN Posted: October 29, 2007 at 11:53 AM (#2598748)
> once Jeter becomes eligible

Assuming Rizzuto isn't elected in the next dozen years...
   1327. OCF Posted: October 29, 2007 at 03:17 PM (#2599065)
The Cardinals can also already do a full team - it merely requires playing Musial in CF, and he did have 325 games there in his career, with one season as his primary position.
C: Simmons
1B:Mize (with Hernandez as defensive replacement)
2B: Hornsby (with Frisch as defensive replacement/ Utility IF)
3B: Boyer
SS; Smith
LF: Medwick
CF: Musial
RF: Slaughter
SP: Gibson
P/PH: Caruthers
   1328. OCF Posted: October 29, 2007 at 07:53 PM (#2599419)
By the way, what cap does McGwire get? Oakland, I guess, but the Cardinals are already overstocked at 1B anyway with Pujols waiting for his turn. And the Cardinals may have another CF candidate coming in Edmonds, although he's hardly a slam dunk.
   1329. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 29, 2007 at 08:20 PM (#2599458)
Really? I see Edmonds as a mortal lock...given his position and fielding, he has the peak of a Kiner/Keller and the career of a Dawson. Then again, my system is impressed with a lot of the modern guys--I see Giles, Giambi, Rolen, Chipper, Thome, Palmeiro, Posada, Walker, Vlad, Chipper, and Edgar Martinez as above the current in/out line based on what they've done to date. But that may be in part because there's no "steroids" variable in my standard deviation regression. Bernie Williams, Abreu, Ventura, Luis González, Kent, Helton, and McGriff are on the wrong side of my line.
   1330. Chris Fluit Posted: October 29, 2007 at 08:48 PM (#2599489)
Forgot somebody in my earlier evaluation: Palmeiro. He's pretty likely to go into the Hall of Merit, and he'd definitely go in as a Ranger. So the Rangers look pretty good to get their first cap by 2011/12, even if Kevin Brown goes in with a different cap. Otherwise, the Rangers could go from 0 to 2 in one election.
   1331. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 29, 2007 at 08:57 PM (#2599499)
No way Brown should get a Ranger cap. I have his career value as follows:

32.7% Los Angeles
23.8% Texas
21.7% Florida
12.7% San Diego
5.9% Baltimore
3.2% New York

Clearly a Dodger.
   1332. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 30, 2007 at 09:00 AM (#2599908)
Clearly a Dodger.


I have to agree, Dan. Brown packed in about the same amount of value in LA that he had in Texas in far fewer innings. I have to go with Dodger Blue for him, too.

By the way, what cap does McGwire get? Oakland, I guess,


Excellent guess, OCF. ;-) It's actually not even close, despite Big Mac's '98.
   1333. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 13, 2007 at 02:33 PM (#2613542)
New plaques were up last night!

I forgot to "bump" this thread. :-)
   1334. Devin McCullen has no value to Eastern Europe Posted: November 17, 2007 at 01:21 AM (#2618251)
Just for a fun comparison, here’s the differences by team between the HoF and HoM, in the same format as the regular cap list. (Not including any team assignments we might differ with.)

Angels - HoM: Grich
Astros - HoM: JWynn
Athletics - HoM: McGwire; HoF: Bender, Hunter
Balt. Black Sox - HoM: Beckwith
Blue Jays - HoM: Stieb
Braves - HoM: Barnes, ESutton, McVey, Torre, White; HoF: Duffy, Maranville, TMcCarthy, Willis
Brooklyn Atlantics - HoM: Pearce, Start
Brooklyn Royal Giants - HoM: GJohnson
Buffalo Bisons - HoM: Richardson
Cardinals - HoM: Boyer, Caruthers, Hernandez, TSimmons; HoF: Bottomley, Brock, Dean, Hafey, Haines, Schoendienst, Sutter
Cleveland Blues - HoM: Glasscock
Cleveland Buckeyes - HoM: Trouppe
Cuban Stars - HoM: Oms
Cubs - HoM: Dahlen, Gore, Hack, Santo, Sheckard; HoF: Chance, Cuyler, Evers, HWilson, Tinker
Detroit Stars - HoF: ACooper
Detroit Wolverines - HoM: Bennett
Dodgers - HoF: Grimes
Giants - HoM: DaEvans, WClark; HoF: Cepeda, GKelly, Lindstrom, Marquard, TJackson, Welch, Youngs
Hilldale - HoF: JJohnson
Indianapolis ABCs - HoF: Taylor
Indians - HoM: JJackson, WFerrell; HoF: Joss
KC Monarchs - HoM: Moore; HoF: HSmith
Louisville Colonels - HoM: Browning
Nationals - HoM: Dawson
Newark Eagles - HoF: Dandridge, Day
Orioles - HoF: RFerrell
Phillies - HoM: Allen, Magee; HoF: Bancroft, Klein
Philadelphia Athletics – AA - HoM: Stovey
Pirates - HoF: LWaner, Mazeroski, Traynor
Providence Grays - HoM: Hines
Red Sox - HoM: DwEvans; HoF: Hooper
Reds - HoM: CJones, Groh, Rose; HoF: Lombardi, Perez
Spiders - HoM: Childs
St. Louis Brown Stockings - HoM: Pike
Tigers - HoM: Freehan, Trammell, Whitaker; HoF: Kell
Twins - HoM: Blyleven; HoF: Manush, Puckett, SRice
White Sox - HoM: Minoso, Pierce; HoF: Aparicio, Schalk
Yankees - HoM: Gordon, Gossage, Keller, Nettles, Randolph; HoF: Chesbro, Combs, Gomez, Hoyt, Lazzeri, Pennock, Rizzuto
   1335. DavidFoss Posted: November 30, 2007 at 12:12 AM (#2628807)
Late this year.

Orioles, Padres and Athletics get caps thanks to Ripken, Gwynn and McGwire. These three contemporaries went to 19, 15 and 12 all-star games respectively. All three we selected for the the 87, 89-92 and 95-99 games.

The Padres have never met either of the other two clubs in the postseason, but the Orioles and A's met in the ALCS three times in four years with the Orioles winning in 1971 and the A's winning in 1973 & 1974.

Players who have played for all three franchises include Curt Blefary, Storm Davis, Greg Meyers, Ramon Hernandez, Jay Payton and Jack Cust.

2007 Franchise Cap Standings

1. Giants - 18 (Bresnahan, WClark, Connor, GDavis, DaEvans, Ewing, Hubbell, Keefe, Marichal, Mathewson, WMays, McCovey, McGinnity, Ott, GPerry, Rusie, Terry, Ward)
2. Cubs - 16 (Anson, Banks, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett, BiHerman, Jenkins, KKelly, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, BiWilliams)
3T. Braves - 13 (Aaron, Barnes, Mathews, McVey, Nichols, PNiekro, O'Rourke, Spahn, Spalding, ESutton, Torre, DWhite, GWright)
3T. Indians - 13 (Averill, Boudreau, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, WFerrell, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Lemon, JSewell, Speaker, EWynn)
3T. Yankees - 13 (Berra, Dickey, Dimaggio, WFord, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Keller, Mantle, Nettles, Randolph, Ruffing, Ruth)
6. Cardinals - 12 (KBoyer, Caruthers, Frisch, BGibson, KHernandez, Hornsby, Medwick, Mize, Musial, TSimmons, Slaughter, OSmith)
7T. Athletics - 11 (FBaker, Cochrane, Eckersley, Fingers, Foxx, Grove, McGwire, Plank, ReJackson, ASimmons, Waddell)
7T. Tigers - 11 (Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline, Newhouser, Trammell, Whitaker)
9. Phillies - 10 (Alexander, DAllen, Ashburn, Carlton, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, RRoberts, Schmidt, Thompson)
10T.Dodgers - 9 (Campanella, Drysdale, Koufax, PWReese, JRobinson, Snider, DSutton, Vance, Wheat)
10T.Pirates - 9 (Beckley, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, Kiner, Stargell, Vaughn, Wagner, PWaner)
10T.Reds - 9 (Bench, CJones, Groh, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, FRobinson, Rose, Roush)
10T.White Sox - 9 (Appling, ECollins, Faber, Fox, Lyons, Minoso, BPierce, Walsh, Wilhelm)
14. Red Sox - 7 (Boggs, JCollins, Doerr, DwEvans, Fisk, TWilliams, Yastrzemski)
15T.Orioles - 6 (Murray, Palmer, Ripken, BRobinson, Sisler, Wallace)
15T.Twins - 6 (Blyleven, Carew, Cronin, Goslin, WJohnson, Killebrew)
17T.Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 3 (Jennings, Keeler, Kelley)
17T.Buffalo Bisons - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson)
17T.Chicago American Giants - 3 - (WFoster, PHill, Torriente)
17T.Cleveland Spiders - 3 (Burkett, Childs, CYoung)
17T.Homestead Grays - 3 (RBrown, JGibson, BLeonard)
17T.Kansas City Monarchs - 3 (WBrown, DMoore, Rogan)
17T.Saint Louis Stars - 3 (CPBell, Suttles, WWells)
24T.Angels - 2 (Grich, NRyan)
24T.Baltimore Black Sox - 2 (Beckwith, JWilson)
24T.Brewers - 2 (Molitor, Yount)
24T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
24T.Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
24T.Nationals - 2 (GCarter, Dawson)
24T.New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
24T.Padres - 2 (Gwynn, Winfield)
24T.Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
33T.Almendares Blues - 1 (JMendez)
33T.Astros - 1 (JWynn)
33T.Blue Jays - 1 (Stieb)
33T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
33T.Cleveland Buckeyes - 1 (QTrouppe)
33T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
33T.Cuban Stars East - 1 (Oms)
33T.Detroit Stars - 1 (Stearnes)
33T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
33T.Habana Reds - 1 (Dihigo)
33T.Hilldale Daisies - 1 (Mackey)
33T.Indianapolis ABC's - 1 (Charleston)
33T.Louisville Colonels - 1 (Browning)
33T.Mets - 1 (Seaver)
33T.Newark Eagles - 1 (Irvin)
33T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
33T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
33T.Pittsburgh Crawfords - 1 (Paige)
33T.Royals - 1 (Brett)
33T.Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike)
   1336. DavidFoss Posted: December 04, 2007 at 10:54 PM (#2634857)
Which cap is Lundy getting? I assume Expos and Royals for the other two.
   1337. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 05, 2007 at 09:30 AM (#2635208)
Which cap is Lundy getting? I assume Expos and Royals for the other two.


Lundy gets an Atlantic City Bacharach Giants cap, while you're correct about the other two, David.
   1338. DavidFoss Posted: December 06, 2007 at 02:50 AM (#2636476)
Nationals, Royals and Atlantic City Bacharach Giants get caps thanks to Raines, Saberhagen and Lundy.

These teams never met in the postseason. Not many notable players played for bot the Royals and Expos/Nationals. The biggest names include Mark Grudzielanek, Rondell White, Dan Schatzeder, Steve Renko and Matt Stairs.

2008 Franchise Cap Standings

1. Giants - 18 (Bresnahan, WClark, Connor, GDavis, DaEvans, Ewing, Hubbell, Keefe, Marichal, Mathewson, WMays, McCovey, McGinnity, Ott, GPerry, Rusie,

Terry, Ward)
2. Cubs - 16 (Anson, Banks, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett, BiHerman, Jenkins, KKelly, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, BiWilliams)
3T. Braves - 13 (Aaron, Barnes, Mathews, McVey, Nichols, PNiekro, O'Rourke, Spahn, Spalding, ESutton, Torre, DWhite, GWright)
3T. Indians - 13 (Averill, Boudreau, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, WFerrell, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Lemon, JSewell, Speaker, EWynn)
3T. Yankees - 13 (Berra, Dickey, Dimaggio, WFord, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Keller, Mantle, Nettles, Randolph, Ruffing, Ruth)
6. Cardinals - 12 (KBoyer, Caruthers, Frisch, BGibson, KHernandez, Hornsby, Medwick, Mize, Musial, TSimmons, Slaughter, OSmith)
7T. Athletics - 11 (FBaker, Cochrane, Eckersley, Fingers, Foxx, Grove, McGwire, Plank, ReJackson, ASimmons, Waddell)
7T. Tigers - 11 (Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline, Newhouser, Trammell, Whitaker)
9. Phillies - 10 (Alexander, DAllen, Ashburn, Carlton, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, RRoberts, Schmidt, Thompson)
10T.Dodgers - 9 (Campanella, Drysdale, Koufax, PWReese, JRobinson, Snider, DSutton, Vance, Wheat)
10T.Pirates - 9 (Beckley, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, Kiner, Stargell, Vaughn, Wagner, PWaner)
10T.Reds - 9 (Bench, CJones, Groh, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, FRobinson, Rose, Roush)
10T.White Sox - 9 (Appling, ECollins, Faber, Fox, Lyons, Minoso, BPierce, Walsh, Wilhelm)
14. Red Sox - 7 (Boggs, JCollins, Doerr, DwEvans, Fisk, TWilliams, Yastrzemski)
15T.Orioles - 6 (Murray, Palmer, Ripken, BRobinson, Sisler, Wallace)
15T.Twins - 6 (Blyleven, Carew, Cronin, Goslin, WJohnson, Killebrew)
17T.Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 3 (Jennings, Keeler, Kelley)
17T.Buffalo Bisons - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson)
17T.Chicago American Giants - 3 - (WFoster, PHill, Torriente)
17T.Cleveland Spiders - 3 (Burkett, Childs, CYoung)
17T.Homestead Grays - 3 (RBrown, JGibson, BLeonard)
17T.Kansas City Monarchs - 3 (WBrown, DMoore, Rogan)
17T.Nationals - 3 (GCarter, Dawson, Raines)
17T.Saint Louis Stars - 3 (CPBell, Suttles, WWells)
25T.Angels - 2 (Grich, NRyan)
25T.Baltimore Black Sox - 2 (Beckwith, JWilson)
25T.Brewers - 2 (Molitor, Yount)
25T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
25T.Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
25T.New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
25T.Padres - 2 (Gwynn, Winfield)
25T.Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
25T.Royals - 2 (Brett, Saberhagen)
34T.Almendares Blues - 1 (JMendez)
34T.Atlantic City Bacharach Giants - 1 (Lundy)
34T.Astros - 1 (JWynn)
34T.Blue Jays - 1 (Stieb)
34T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
34T.Cleveland Buckeyes - 1 (QTrouppe)
34T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
34T.Cuban Stars East - 1 (Oms)
34T.Detroit Stars - 1 (Stearnes)
34T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
34T.Habana Reds - 1 (Dihigo)
34T.Hilldale Daisies - 1 (Mackey)
34T.Indianapolis ABC's - 1 (Charleston)
34T.Louisville Colonels - 1 (Browning)
34T.Mets - 1 (Seaver)
34T.Newark Eagles - 1 (Irvin)
34T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
34T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
34T.Pittsburgh Crawfords - 1 (Paige)
34T.Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike)
   1339. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 06, 2007 at 10:00 AM (#2636605)
Thanks, David!

I have posted Raines' plaque. The other two should be finished in a day or two.
   1340. DL from MN Posted: December 06, 2007 at 12:13 PM (#2636840)
"during the Eighties"

We have inductees from both sets of 80s.
   1341. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 06, 2007 at 12:42 PM (#2636903)
We have inductees from both sets of 80s.


You have a point, DL, though most people should figure out what century I'm talking about. ;-) With that said, I'll adjust the plaque(s) at some point.
   1342. Devin McCullen has no value to Eastern Europe Posted: December 06, 2007 at 03:41 PM (#2637229)
As promised at some point, here's the updated city standings. Most of the commentary is the same. There's a tie on top, but Chicago has no candidates high in the backlog, while New York has Rizzuto and Cone (not that I'm sure which NY team he'd be wearing). It seems very odd, but I'm assuming McGraw would be an Oriole for our purposes. Looking ahead, I can see Ventura and Bernie getting some support but I'm not sure how much. Among the still actives, Chicago has Sosa and Thomas, New York has Jeter and Rivera. Piazza and A-Rod's caps will be debatable, as will Posada's candidacy. This could go on for a while.

1T. Chicago - 28 (Anson, Appling, Banks, BrownM, ClarksonJ, CollinsE, Dahlen, Faber, FosterW, Fox, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett, HermanB, HillP, Jenkins, KellyK, Lyons, Minoso, PierceB, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, Torriente, Walsh, Wilhelm, WilliamsBi)
1T. New York - 28 (Berra, Bresnahan, Connor, DavisG, Dickey, DiMaggioJ, Ewing, FordW, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Hubbell, Keefe, Keller, Lloyd, Mantle, Mathewson, McGinnity, Nettles, Ott, Randolph, Ruffing, Rusie, Ruth, Seaver, Terry, Ward, WilliamsSJ)
3. Philadelphia - 19 (Alexander, AllenD, Ashburn, BakerF, Carlton, Cochrane, Delahanty, FosterR, Foxx, Grove, Hamilton, Magee, Plank, RobertsR, Schmidt, SimmonsA, StoveyH, Thompson, Waddell)
4T. Cleveland - 18 (Averill, Boudreau, Burkett, Childs, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, FerrellW, Flick, Glasscock, JacksonJ, Lajoie, Lemon, SewellJ, Speaker, TrouppeQ, WynnE, YoungC)
4T. St. Louis - 18 (BellCP, BoyerK, Caruthers, Frisch, GibsonB, HernandezK, Hornsby, Medwick, Mize, Musial, Pike, SimmonsT, Sisler, Slaughter, Smith, Suttles, Wallace, WellsW)
6. Boston - 15 (Barnes, Boggs, CollinsJ, Doerr, EvansDw, Fisk, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, SuttonE, WhiteD, WilliamsT, WrightD, Yastrzemski)
7T. Detroit - 13 (Bennett, Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline, Newhouser, Stearnes, Trammell, Whitaker)
7T. Pittsburgh - 13 (Beckley, BrownR, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, GibsonJ, Kiner, LeonardB, Paige, Stargell, Vaughan, Wagner, WanerP)
9. Brooklyn* - 10 (Campanella, JohnsonHR, Pearce, Reese, RobinsonJ, Santop, Snider, Start, Vance, Wheat)
10T. Baltimore - 9 (Beckwith, Jennings, Keeler, Kelley, Murray, Palmer, Ripken, RobinsonB, WilsonJ)
10T. Cincinnati - 9 (Bench, Groh, Jones, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, RobinsonF, Rose, Roush)
12T. Milwaukee - 6 (Aaron, Mathews, Molitor, Spahn, Torre, Yount)
12T. San Francisco - 6 (ClarkW, EvansDa, Marichal, MaysW, McCovey, PerryG)
14. Kansas City - 5 (Brett, BrownW, MooreD, Rogan, Saberhagen)
15. Oakland - 4 (Eckersley, Fingers, JacksonR, McGwire)
16T. Buffalo - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson)
16T. Los Angeles - 3 (Drysdale, Koufax, SuttonD)
16T. Montreal - 3 (CarterG, Dawson, Raines)
16T. Minneapolis - 3 (Blyleven, Carew, Killebrew)
16T. Washington, DC - 3 (Cronin, Goslin, JohnsonW)
21T. Anaheim* - 2 (Grich, RyanN)
21T. Providence - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
21T. San Diego – 2 (Gwynn, Winfield)
24T. Almendares* - 1 (Mendez)
24T. Atlanta - 1 (NiekroP)
24T. Atlantic City – 1 (Lundy)
24T. Darby, PA* - 1 (Mackey)
24T. Havana - 1 (Dihigo)
24T. Houston - 1 (WynnJ)
24T. Indianapolis - 1 (Charleston)
24T. Louisville – 1 (Browning)
24T. Newark - 1 (Irvin)
24T. Toronto – 1 (Stieb)
N/A - 2 (GrantF, Oms)

The Cuban Giants don't appear to have had a home for more than a year at a time, and the Cuban Stars were explicitly a traveling team, so I really didn't feel I could assign them anywhere. Almendares was a suburb of Havana (it is now part of the city). Darby (Hilldale) is a suburb of Philadelphia. Homestead was counted as part of Pittsburgh (but I could possibly be talked out of that).

The decisions between cities were pretty straightforward, with the exception of Joe Torre. He definitely had more value in Milwaukee than Atlanta, but it could be argued that he had more in St. Louis than either. I chose to stick with the Braves.

And now for some silliness

Cities with current major league teams that are unrepresented (by length of team existence): Dallas/Arlington (nobody noticed I forgot them on the first go-round), Seattle, Denver, Miami, Phoenix, Tampa Bay/St. Petersburg

Cities with prior major league teams that are unrepresented (# of games played by teams in parentheses): Columbus (614), Troy (325), Worcester (249), Toledo (236), Syracuse (192), Hartford (126), Rochester (126), Richmond (42), Altoona (25), Wilmington (18), St. Paul (8)

Cities not yet mentioned that had Negro League teams in one of the major Negro Leagues, per b-r.com wiki, including the Negro Southern League for 1932 only. (Number of years teams competed, through 1950, in parentheses): Memphis (21), Birmingham (19), Harrisburg (5), Jacksonville (3), Dayton (2), Nashville (2), New Orleans (2), Monroe (LA) (1), Montgomery (1)

Cities with only NA teams: Elizabeth, NJ, Fort Wayne, Keokuk, IA, Middletown, CT, New Haven, Rockford, IL.

Cities where major league teams have played games (pre-1900): Albany, Canton, Collinwood OH, Covington, Dover, Elmira, NY, Geauga Lake OH, Gloucester City NJ, Greenbush NY, Hoboken, Irondequoit NY, Ludlow KY, Maspeth NY, Springfield MA, St. George NY, Three Rivers NY, Weehawken NJ, West New York, Wheeling (from retrosheet:http://www.retrosheet.org/neutral19.htm)

Cities where major league teams have played games (post-1900): Canton, Fort Wayne, Grand Rapids, Honolulu, Jersey City, Las Vegas, Monterey, Orlando (Lake Buena Vista), San Juan, Tokyo, Warwick RI (from retrosheet: http://www.retrosheet.org/neutral.htm)

Caps by state:
1. New York (41)
2. Pennsylvania (33)
3. Illinois (28)
4. Ohio (27)
5. Missouri (23)
6. California (17)
7. Massachusetts (15)
8. Michigan (13)
9. Maryland (9)
10. Wisconsin (6)
11. Minnesota, Quebec, District of Columbia (3)
12. Cuba, New Jersey, Rhode Island (2)
13. Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Ontario, Texas (1)
   1343. Devin McCullen has no value to Eastern Europe Posted: December 06, 2007 at 04:02 PM (#2637269)
Ach, 2 kinda-errors. By my rules, I shouldn't have included Newark under the list of cities with games played post-1900 since it had already been listed. (And I realized that when I drew the list up yesterday, I just did a last minute check today and stuck it in.) And I probably shouldn't have assumed everyone would know Elmira is in New York. (While we're at it, Middletown is in CT, Elizabeth in NJ, Keokuk in IA and Rockford in IL.)

Just to be punctillious, the list of all cities that did not have MLB teams since 1900 that were used for neutral-site games in this period: Canton, Columbus, Dayton, Fort Wayne, Grand Rapids, Honolulu, Jersey City, Las Vegas, Monterey, Newark, Orlando, San Juan, Tokyo, Toledo, Warwick RI.
   1344. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 06, 2007 at 05:52 PM (#2637432)
I'll take care of the errors for you sometime today, Devin.

BTW, I would like to add your list to the top of the page with David's cap standings, if you don't mind. In fact, I would like to, if not in the Plaque Room, create a page for many of the lists (like Howie's and OCF's, for example) now that we have caught up to the HOF.

As for Lundy's plaque, it has been posted (though Ryan may feel like "buchering" it later on :-D). If anyone knows the years he played for the New York Lincoln Giants and Brooklyn Royal Giants, as well as the years and teams he played for in the CWL, I would greatly appreciate it.
   1345. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 06, 2007 at 07:21 PM (#2637517)
The decisions between cities were pretty straightforward, with the exception of Joe Torre. He definitely had more value in Milwaukee than Atlanta, but it could be argued that he had more in St. Louis than either. I chose to stick with the Braves.


Torre had easily more value in St. Louis than either in Milwaukee or Atlanta, so maybe he should receive a Cardinal cap for that specific list with an asterisk next to it explaining why it's different than the franchise cap standings. But that's your call, Devin.
   1346. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 06, 2007 at 08:30 PM (#2637573)
The last plaque to be posted until next year at this time has been posted.
   1347. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 07, 2007 at 02:31 AM (#2637737)
Member of four division-champs (1984, 1995, 1998-99)

If the last three refer to the Rockies and Red Sox, weren't they Wild Card teams rather than division champs?
   1348. Devin McCullen has no value to Eastern Europe Posted: December 07, 2007 at 03:54 PM (#2638279)
Hey, John. No problem with putting my list up top. 3 things.

1) I forgot to include the note explaining what the asterisks mean. Here's what I would use, but feel free to edit it for style: (Cities marked with an asterisk could be considered to be part of another city.)

2) On Joe Torre, my preference would be to leave him with Milwaukee. My feeling is that the cap designations are the starting point of the analysis, so I'll stick with that. As Paul Wendt pointed out, you could do a more thorough workup where you break up each player's full career (and maybe I will at some point).

3) Typical American- or maybe North American-centric thinking, I never thought of Cuban provinces. Of course, it turns out to not be that simple. Both Almendares and Havana were located in what is now Havana, which by current naming would be the province of Ciduad de La Habana. However, before 1970, when the players were active, Havana was part of the larger province, La Habana, which has been subdivided. If you have a strong opinion about which we should use, go ahead.
   1349. DavidFoss Posted: December 07, 2007 at 04:16 PM (#2638309)
(Cities marked with an asterisk could be considered to be part of another city.)

Newark might deserve an asterisk. Its only five miles from Manhattan.

Down below, Saint Paul is arguably one of the home cities of the Minnesota Twins. But, that could be the Saint-Paul-native in me who hates when people from other places refer to non-Laker Minnesota sports teams as 'Minneapolis'. :-)
   1350. Devin McCullen has no value to Eastern Europe Posted: December 07, 2007 at 04:29 PM (#2638320)
Minneapolis/St. Paul is fine with me.

Now, see, the New Jerseyan in me objects when people try to make all of North Jersey into part of New York. God knows the NY papers don't give anywhere near the attention to the Nets and Devils that they do to the Knicks and Rangers. Granted, it's about as far from Manhattan as Darby is from Philadelphia, but it has a population of 280,000 as opposed to 10,000. Plus it's in a different state.

Look at it this way - if you asked someone on one of those teams where they play, is it possible they might answer with the name of the larger city? I'd think for Brooklyn, Almendares and Darby, the answer is a definite yes. Anaheim, well Arte might make them say L.A. But would anyone playing in Newark say they play in New York? I don't think so. (Note: What they might say to impress someone they want to get into bed doesn't count.)
   1351. DavidFoss Posted: December 07, 2007 at 05:03 PM (#2638355)
Just tossing ideas out there. These types of things never really have any right or wrong answers.

Los Angeles is the "City of Angels" and they only changed their name in the 60s-70s fashion of teams not wanting to claim a team unless it was with the city limits. That's why we still have crazy names like "New England Patriots" and "Golden State Warriors"... and I think I was in college before I found out that "Tampa Bay" was not a city like Green Bay was.

Anyhow, these types of discussion always take on a different flavor inside and out of metro areas. I lived in LA for a while. LA & Orange Counties certainly don't have a lot of mutual respect for each other and the LA paper sure loves its Dodgers and could care less about the Angels. But to anyone who doesn't live in Southern California its all "Los Angeles". By trying to revert the team name to Los Angeles, I think the owner is trying to capture some the allegiance of some of the millions of people in LA county in an attempt to increase their revenues.

Rambling a bit now... its a fun ramble, though... its friday... :-)
   1352. Paul Wendt Posted: December 08, 2007 at 01:25 PM (#2638925)
The strong showing by Cleveland has been marked before.

6. Boston - 15 (Barnes, Boggs, CollinsJ, Doerr, EvansDw, Fisk, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, SuttonE, WhiteD, WilliamsT, WrightD, Yastrzemski)

That is WrightGeorge

Boston 1870s - 7 (Barnes, McVey, O'Rourke, Spalding, SuttonE, WhiteD, WrightG)</i>
That is O'Rourke plus six men who were playing professionally in the sixties (not in Boston). Sutton's best years in Boston were in the eighties but his peak was in the seventies.

Boston "modern" - 8 (Boggs, CollinsJ, Doerr, EvansDw, Fisk, Nichols, WilliamsT, Yastrzemski)
   1353. Paul Wendt Posted: December 08, 2007 at 02:06 PM (#2638942)
Dallas/Arlington (nobody noticed I forgot them on the first go-round)

That still doesn't ring a bell for me. When were they in the league?

--
Cities with prior major league teams that are unrepresented (# of games played by teams in parentheses): Columbus (614), Troy (325), Worcester (249), Toledo (236), Syracuse (192), Hartford (126), Rochester (126), Richmond (42), Altoona (25), Wilmington (18), St. Paul (8)

Cities not yet mentioned that had Negro League teams in one of the major Negro Leagues, per b-r.com wiki, including the Negro Southern League for 1932 only. (Number of years teams competed, through 1950, in parentheses): Memphis (21), Birmingham (19), Harrisburg (5), Jacksonville (3), Dayton (2), Nashville (2), New Orleans (2), Monroe LA (1), Montgomery (1)

Cities with only NA teams: Elizabeth NJ, Fort Wayne IN, Keokuk IA, Middletown CT, New Haven CT, Rockford IL.

Cities where major league teams have played games (pre-1900): Albany, Canton, Collinwood OH, Covington, Dover, Elmira NY, Geauga Lake OH, Gloucester City NJ, Greenbush NY, Hoboken, Irondequoit NY, Ludlow KY, Maspeth NY, Springfield MA, St. George NY, Three Rivers NY, Weehawken NJ, West New York, Wheeling (from retrosheet:http://www.retrosheet.org/neutral19.htm)

[emphasis mine; edited for uniform style in state abbreviations (no comma)]

taking this too seriously:
St Paul MN and Elizabeth NJ - underscored in a nod to the remarks on St Paul and Newark.

Several of the cities collected here were close to major league cities when they hosted games and some were already part of one metropolitan area --in some cases, hosting mlb games simply as distinct jurisdictions who permitted that commercial activity on Sunday.

No major league games in Jersey City? Did Hoboken, Weehawken, and/or West New York become Jersey City?

Here is some allocation of the penultimate collection:

Cities where major league teams have played games (pre-1900):
Albany NY, Canton OH, Dover DE, Elmira NY, Springfield MA, Wheeling WV (from retrosheet:http://www.retrosheet.org/neutral19.htm)</i>

[New York] Hoboken NJ, Maspeth NY, St. George NY, Weehawken NJ, West New York NJ (not to mention Brooklyn)
[Rochester] Irondequoit NY
[Syracuse] Three Rivers NY
[Troy] Greenbush NY
[Cleveland] Collinwood OH (Euclid Township), Geaugua Lake OH
[Cincinnati] Covington KY, Ludlow KY
[Philadelphia] Gloucester City NJ
   1354. Paul Wendt Posted: December 08, 2007 at 02:12 PM (#2638943)
The filename at retrosheet is still "neutral19.htm" but the title "alternate site" indicates neutrality regarding neutrality. Genuinely neutral sites such as Covington and Ludlow are grouped with alternate sites for the local team such as Weehawken. Footnotes provide "reason for move" but many games still need footnotes.
   1355. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy