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— BTF's Preseason Previews

Wednesday, March 10, 2004

Cincinnati Reds

Last March, Chris Dial opened his preview of the Reds’ upcoming season with a breakdown of the 2002 squad’s hapless performance against inter-league opponents (and the Arizona Diamondbacks). Noting the horrendous pitching and the loss of Austin Kearns at the end of the previous year, he wrapped up his intro thusly; "Hopefully, this season, the pitchers can hold up and the young players like Kearns and Dunn can grow." Going into 2004, fans of this once-proud franchise might repeat those same words as mantra, but it’s a fine line where tenacious hope devolves into delusion.

It is hard to imagine a scenario in which the 2004 Cincinnati Reds are competitive. If absolutely everything breaks right for this team, they’re an offensively solid squad whose offensive pitching relegates them to a "tough division" fourth place finish. If even the slightest thing goes wrong, Cincinnati is looking at a team so abysmally bad as to give the ’62 Mets and ’03 Tigers some company in the Hall of Modern Suck. Given the fact that the "absolutely everything breaks right" scenario is dependent upon both Ken Griffey, Jr. and Barry Larkin being healthy and productive all year and some combination of Jimmy Haynes, Paul Wilson or Brandon Claussen turning into a rotational anchor, smart money is on the suck. Yes, Reds fans can hope for the best. They can look forward to maybe, hopefully beating out the Brewers for fourth place, and with a little divine intervention they might see a run similar that put together by the 2003 Royals, but most likely their collective energies are better spent lobbying ESPN Classic to just re-run the 1975 season in its entirety.

With that said, the Reds are not a team completely devoid of talent. They have a few of positional players who could post top-quintile-by-position seasons this year, a couple of whom are young enough to be considered a core worth building around. But what they have in positional strength is more than made up for by the truly heinous rotation the team is likely going to depend on to prevent other teams from scoring at will.

The Offense

Catcher – Jason LaRue, Corky Miller

2003 marked the third year of Jason LaRue’s fulltime catching gig. For the third year in a row he hit for a little power when compared to his position, got on base enough not to be embarrassing and scraped out a batting average good enough to keep him in the lineup four out of every five days. Combined with his exceptional defensive reputation and cannon arm, he should maintain the position easily. At age 29, LaRue is not going to turn into Johnny Bench any time soon (or ever, really,) but he is a capable bat to have in the lower third of the lineup and he dons the catcher’s gear as well as any player in the majors. He’s never caught more than 121 games in the bigs, though. This wasn’t much of a problem when his primary caddy was Kelly Stinnett, but Cincy may need to up LaRue’s appearances by 10 or 20 games this year as Stinnett has moved on and Corky Miller is now the primary backup. In three years as a Sunday catcher Miller has posted one decent year (2001 as a rookie), one Jason LaRue clone year (2002) and one mostly abysmal year (2003.) At 27 years he may have a little improvement in him, but all told, he’s very close to being "what he is." All in all, catching should be a plus position for the Reds in 2004, but not by a wide margin. If anything happens to LaRue for an extended period of time, all bets are off.

First Base – Sean Casey

If Sean Casey were stock, you probably should have sold by now. A brief glance at his career suggests an early bloom at age 24 with a steady decline setting immediately thereafter. Conventional SABR-wisdom dictates that, as a 28 year old, Casey should get the benefit of the doubt for "bouncing back," but when every aspect of a player’s game has been in decline since 1999 you might want to consider chucking conventional wisdom regardless of where it comes from. Granted, Casey did post something of a rebound in 2003 after bottoming out the previous year, but a 758 OPS from a 1B looks good only when compared to the backup middle-infielder production (261/334/362) he posted in 2002. Can Sean Casey rekindle his early glory, resurrect himself and post another 330/400/520 line? Sure, anything’s possible. But it would probably be foolish to bet your team’s future on it. If the Reds could find anyone to take Casey’s contract they would deal him and install Adam Dunn at first. As of yet, no other team has been foolish enough to take Casey off of their hands.

Second Base – D’Angelo Jimenez

Jimenez is a guy you want to root for. Anyone who returns to play above average major league baseball after breaking his neck should be on your cheer list. A solid defender (despite a mixed reputation) who posts 290/340/400 from the middle infield, Jimenez finally has a shot as the every day guy. He’s bounced around a bit but looks to settle in as the everyday second sacker in Cincinnati this year. At least Reds fans should hope for as much, because his primary backup is going to be either Juan Castro or Ray Olmedo. No team excised of Bob Boone’s managerial skills should ever have to see either of those guys play regularly. That would just be cruel.

Third Base – Brandon Larson

Brandon Larson, on the strength of 51 at bats in 2002, made Aaron Boone expendable in the Reds eyes. That’s kind of sad, because outside of those 51 at bats, Brandon Larson has been an abysmal major league baseball player. In 2001 he hit 121/171/182 in 33 at bats. In 2003 he hit 101/212/147 in 89 at bats. Think about that for a minute. Now think about the fact that this is the Reds’ starting 3B for 2004. One assumes that the organization thinks Larson will bounce back, because all they have behind him is the ever-present Juan Castro (who out hit Larson two out of the last three years) and marginal prospect Edwin Encarnacion in Dayton. Now, the Reds obviously feel Larson’s future will be more similar to his 2002 than his 2001 or 2003, but that is an awfully risky assumption to make. Larson might turn in a decent year as the fulltime 3B, but he just as likely might be one of the worst players in baseball.

Oh, and his defense is inadequate too.

[Small sample size, Sammy? Larson got a shot for all of two weeks and has been much better in the minors since his eye surgery - DS]

Shortstop – Barry Larkin

Barry Larkin is done. D-U-N, done. Fork him, slice him and plate him up. Speak glowingly about his career, his under appreciated peak in the mid-90s, how he’s likely to get slighted in Hall of Fame consideration because of the superstar shortstops that exploded during the decline phase of his career, anything you like. But don’t try to make excuses for playing him in 2004. The reasons he’ll be on the field come opening day are 1) Felipe Lopez hasn’t hit well enough to take the old man’s job and 2) the politics of fading superstars with hefty contracts often override common sense. With that said, the only good option for the Reds this year is for Lopez to break out, because otherwise it’s the washed up, former glory tour at SS this year.

Or Juan Castro. Lopez at least has an upside. Barry Larkin does not. Barry Larkin will not rebound. He will not bounce back. He is 40, and he is not Julio Franco, and he is done.

Left Field – Adam Dunn

Speaking of Dunn, someone might want to grab this one, casually pull him aside, and mention the perils of the Sean Casey career path. Back in 2001 Adam Dunn was the most amazing prospective slugger anyone in baseball could recall seeing. Two years later and he’s barely posting a BA above the Mendoza line, though he is still walking a good deal. But his slugging is down to levels questionable for a corner outfielder and his tendency to swing and miss doesn’t help. Still only 24, Dunn has a ton of upside but needs to get his act back together this year. He can carry a .250 batting average with lots of Ks if he’s getting on base at .370 and slugging .500. He can’t if he’s posting 340/450. He most certainly can’t drag a .215 BA along with those low-end numbers. Dunn can still turn in a sterling career, should he remember how to make contact and hit the ball real hard, but the early warning lights are starting to light up the dashboard too. Of interest, his most similar batters from baseball-reference.com: Russ Branyan and Pete Incaviglia.

Center Field – Ken Griffey, Jr.

The caveats about Junior’s health are more or less a given now. His hamstrings seem to pop every time a strong breeze blows through and video of him collapsing after rounding third is almost a regular April feature of SportsCenter. But with all of that given, keep in mind the fact that Ken Griffey, Jr. posted a 370/566 in his 53 games last year. It’s not his peak, and it’s likely to drop a bit if he does manage to play every day again, but even so, a healthy Junior is one of the best players in baseball. Still. Of course, like Casey, if the Reds could find someone to work the contract with (for whom Griffey would agree to play) Griffey would be traded in a heartbeat. At 33, he’s not going to be a part of the next great Reds team, even if he is still their best player (when healthy.) Rumors are already flying, with both Seattle and Atlanta mentioned as possible destinations. With Austin Kearns capable of playing CF and Stephen Smitherman almost ready to try his hand at a corner slot, the Reds want to move either Griffey or Casey or both.

Right Field – Austin Kearns

Another super-prospect who slipped a little in 2003, Kearns is still probably the Reds best player going forward. When healthy he hits for average, power and takes his walks while playing an immaculate right field. He has the range to switch to CF, should the team move the incumbent, and could give Jim Edmonds a run for most valuable CF should that happen, but he does need to get a full year of healthy play under his belt, with production closer to his rookie campaign than last year’s. Of all of the Reds young position players, Kearns is the most likely to become the real-deal superstar caliber player.

The Bench – Stephen Smitherman, Wily Mo Pena, Reggie Taylor, Juan Castro, Felipe Lopez, Ray Olmedo

Of this group, Smitherman will just as likely head to Louisville for a year of regular play rather than have his development impeded by long periods of bench warming in Cincy. Wily Mo Pena and Reggie Taylor are both on their last legs as "prospects" but will likely be the fourth and fifth outfielders anyway. Felipe Lopez should be starting, but regardless the rest of the bench is a hodge-podge of near useless parts. Castro and Olmedo can compete for the coveted multi-position backup who couldn’t hit water if they fell out of a boat position, though the new management might be wise enough to replace one of them with Ryan Freel. Freel can at least, on occasion, identify a pitch thrown toward him. Sad thing is, any of those three might very well out hit Brandon Larson, so what are you going to do? If Smitherman plays well at AAA and Larson/Freel/Castro/Olmedo play, well, as might be expected, don’t be shocked to see Austin Kearns re-try his hand at 3B. All in all, the Reds really need to hope for healthy and bounce back play from all of their starters and a break out year from Felipe Lopez, because their bench is truly bad.

The Rotation -- Jimmy Haynes, Corey Lidle, Paul Wilson, Aaron Harang, Jose Acevedo, Brandon Claussen, Chris Reitsma

Speaking of "truly bad…" The bright side of this mess is that Brandon Claussen pitched extremely well as a Red last year and is sparkling in spring training this year. That is good, because this is a rotation in desperate need of an ace, or a queen, or jack, or even a ten of diamonds really. Claussen is the last best hope for that. Otherwise Jimmy Haynes is a pulled back muscle away from being the Reds’ opening day starter for the second year in a row. The implications of that ought to be obvious. Counting on Paul Wilson to recapture his 2000 form is no more of a strategy than was waiting for Ryan Dempster to do the same. Corey Lidle is a nice guy to have in your four spot, but you’d prefer to have someone better in the one, two and three spot. Apparently working off the theory that you can’t have just one marginal Oakland cast-off, the Reds brought in Aaron Harang to keep Lidle company and, maybe, perhaps, start a game or two. Jose Acevedo tries to pry his way back into a starting rotation on the strength of 27 innings pitched last year. Chris Reitsma may be the best non-Claussen candidate of the bunch and is most likely headed to the bullpen again. Then, just for good measure, there’s Aaron Myette and D.J. Mattox and Josh Hall and John Riedling and Matt Belisle and Brian Reith… Hell, even Todd Van Poppel has been mentioned as a starting candidate. I’m shocked Ty Howington hasn’t been brought up as well.

The Pen –Danny Graves, Ryan Wagner, John Riedling, Phil Norton

The upside of having no rotation to speak of is that you get a really solid bullpen from the spare parts. Danny Graves, after an abysmal turn at starting last year, has been thankfully moved back to closer, where he belongs. Wagner, Riedling and Norton are all decent setup/long relief options, and someone out of that bunch of pseudo-starters up there will turn in 80 sterling innings of relief instead. The problem, of course, is that with the starting rotation the Reds are likely to go with, the pen will once again be overworked before the end of July.

Management – Dave Miley (Manager), Dan O’Brien (GM)

Dave Miley has managed a grand total of 57 games in the major leagues. He’s won 22 of them. This is, of course, meaningless. 57 games won’t tell us anything about his skills at winning (or losing) ball games. Miley brings a couple of things to the table, though. First, he’s not Bob Boone. He has to get some points for that, right? Secondly, he’s obviously on board with upper management’s program. That’s why he was hired in the first place. Miley gets a little big league experience. Ownership gets a manager who doesn’t complain about having a rotation staffed by nothing but #4 or #5 starters.

Dan O’Brien, who replaced Jim Bowden as GM midseason last year, is in the midst of a complete tear down and rebuild. In the final three months of last season, the team traded away pretty much anyone they could get into the van, all for minor league pitching, addressing with quantity the gaping organizational wound they couldn’t fix with quality. It’s far too early to say if any of these moves are going to work, but after years of bailing wire, spit and specious hopes for repeated career years (Ron Villone, Ryan Dempster, Jimmy Haynes) by Bowden, O’Brien’s team at least seems to have a reasonable grasp of where the franchise is in the success cycle.

From the top down, Reds management is single mindedly searching for the One True Ring: pitching. O’Brien has re-designed the scouting department, breaking it into three distinct units. What was once a single monolith has been broken into amateur, professional and international divisions. Two of O’Brien’s old college chums, Terry Reynolds and Dean Taylor, direct the first two departments, respectively, while former special assistant to the GM Johnny Almaraz heads up international scouting. It remains to be seen if any of these moves are actually going to help the Reds develop (or acquire via trade, which would be Taylor’s job) any pitching that’s going to help the team win, but it could hardly be worse in the long-term than Bowden’s last five years of rudderless micro-maneuvering and pointless acquisition of marginal corner outfielders and infielders.

Conclusion

The Reds play in what promises to be one of the toughest divisions in baseball. Two of their divisional rivals could legitimately lay claim to "best in the NL" this year. Another is a perennial contender. Yes, they get to play the Pirates and Brewers 19 times each, but honestly, the Reds may not field a team capable of beating even those clubs with regularity. The starting pitching is abysmal and unlikely to regularly provide the quality pen with leads to hold. The offense could be pretty good, assuming that their injury prone centerfielder manages to stay healthy, their two young corner outfielders regain their respective rookie campaign form(s), their first base man reverses a five year trend of poor production, and someone steps up to produce offense from the left side of the infield. Unfortunately, that’s the upside, and if all goes well there, and Brandon Claussen becomes a staff ace, and a couple of the other grown-in-a-vat fourth starters turn in best-of-career type performances, the Reds can maybe compete for third place. If the competition gets hurt they might wiggle into the wildcard chase. But in all likelihood, Cincinnati is simply in for an excruciatingly long year, much like 2003. If Griffey, Jr. gets hurt or traded, or Larson stumbles, or Larkin plays like a 40 year old, they might compete for the title of worst team in the league. And if that happens, they don’t even have the refrain of "there’s young talent in the pipeline" to fall back on. Outside of Ty Howington and Steve Smitherman, what you see in Cincy is more or less what the organization has to offer.

Name               P    AVG   OBP   SPC    G   AB    R    H  2B  3B  HR  RBI   BB    K  SB  CS 
Kearns             rf  .308  .413  .516  101  364   62  112  17   1  19   66   62   74   6   3 
Dunn*              lf  .245  .408  .484  139  473   82  116  18   1  31   88  122  138  13   6 
Griffey*           cf  .258  .352  .504   77  236   33   61  17   1  13   42   32   51   1   1 
Jimenez#           2b  .293  .377  .429  151  587   82  172  29   6  13   71   74   93   9   7 
Casey*             1b  .292  .358  .415  141  537   66  157  26   2  12   68   50   56   3   1 
Larson             3b  .270  .333  .468  112  393   61  106  22   1  18   64   34  108   4   2 
Smitherman         lf  .269  .342  .436  142  475   64  128  23   1  18   70   48  124   9   3 
Pena               cf  .261  .343  .410  103  322   47   84  13   1  11   44   37   82   5   1 
Valentin#          c   .268  .329  .435  103  384   48  103  29   1  11   53   32   89   0   1 
Hummel             3b  .273  .343  .399  146  557   76  152  27   2  13   68   54   94   6   4 
Lopez#             ss  .260  .343  .411  120  450   73  117  21   4  13   56   53  115  11   8 
Vander Wal*        rf  .240  .328  .417  115  321   40   77  25   1  10   43   39  102   2   3 
Miller             c   .246  .319  .417  110  357   46   88  25   0  12   51   35   63   1   1 
Encarnacion        3b  .267  .322  .397  106  390   60  104  14   2  11   49   28   78  13   5 
LaRue              c   .237  .317  .413  118  375   45   89  22   1  14   53   32  110   2   3 
Freel              2b  .258  .323  .385  102  387   60  100  24   2   7   43   34   49  21  11 
Taylor*            cf  .261  .306  .410  117  322   39   84  16   4   8   37   19   81  12   8 
Christensen*       cf  .258  .317  .373   87  322   45   83  19   3   4   31   26   69  10   8 
Holbert            ss  .269  .308  .377  109  390   54  105  22   4   4   38   18   70   9  12 
Clark*             2b  .223  .320  .329  113  377   44   84  11   4   7   34   51   59  18   9 
Castro             2b  .244  .290  .373  103  279   25   68  13   1   7   33   16   52   1   2 
Olmedo#            2b  .259  .318  .321  104  433   55  112  16   1   3   38   34   84   7   6 
Larkin             ss  .229  .292  .344  101  340   44   78  28   1   3   33   27   44   5   3 
Sardinha           c   .220  .266  .296   86  328   28   72  16   0   3   28   18   80   1   2 

Name                  ERA   W   L   G  GS     INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
Wagner               3.60   2   2  26   0    30.0   23   12   2   15   36 
Claussen*            4.10   4   5  17  17   101.0   89   46   8   47   98 
Harang               4.12   9  10  27  27   142.0  137   65  12   49  110 
Riedling             4.28   2   3  47   5    80.0   78   38   4   37   55 
Randall              4.34   8   9  35  20   141.0  148   68  12   43   81 
Prokopec             4.42   6   7  26  18   112.0  114   55  18   26   96 
Mallette             4.42   2   5  51   0    57.0   48   28   8   28   60 
Lidle                4.48  10  12  30  30   189.0  202   94  22   54  123 
Norton*              4.50   3   5  59   2    66.0   61   33   4   35   54 
Matthews*            4.50   3   5  61   4    68.0   64   34   6   31   53 
Belisle              4.53   5   7  27  23   141.0  147   71  17   42   95 
Reitsma              4.53   8  10  40  19   139.0  148   70  17   36   86 
Hall                 4.55   6   9  31  30   172.0  170   87  15   74  125 
Acevedo              4.65   8  11  32  23   147.0  149   76  22   46  119 
van Poppel           4.74   4   4  46   6    93.0   95   49  13   30   77 
Etherton             4.77   6  10  28  28   151.0  167   80  18   42   78 
Cerros               5.02   2   3  37   1    52.0   58   29   6   19   27 
Wilson               5.02   7  11  31  28   172.0  187   96  26   56  110 
Graves               5.04   5   9  46  16   134.0  156   75  19   33   58 
Haynes               5.09   8  14  29  28   161.0  169   91  18   73  102 
Hudson               5.17   6  10  31  23   134.0  130   77  18   70  121 
Myette               5.17   5   8  32  15   120.0  117   69  19   68  111 
Mattox               5.20   5   9  23  23   123.0  124   71  12   67   87 
Moseley              5.22   6  10  26  26   162.0  181   94  21   66   98 
Valentine            5.26   2   3  47   0    53.0   49   31   4   38   45 
Howington*           5.29   5   8  21  21    97.0   97   57   9   58   69 
Reith                5.33   5  11  36  19   125.0  131   74  18   57   89 
Thurman              5.43   6   6  28  18   111.0  115   67  16   55   90 
Austin               5.64   3   6  36   9    75.0   77   47  14   38   65 
Sanchez*             6.62   2   8  39  17   117.0  136   86  27   63   82 
ZiPS Projections are not playing time predictors; they project a player's performance given playing time in the majors in their accustomed role. As with all projections, specific knowledge of non-statistical attributes of the player should temper what the computer says.
Sam Hutcheson Posted: March 10, 2004 at 12:00 AM | 20 comment(s)
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   1. Dan Szymborski Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614949)
Sam, you're definitely more negative on the Reds chances in 2004 than I am. I don't see any way this team is 2003 Tigers-bad - the pitching was horrific last season but the Reds were still 69-93 despite only having a single thing go better than expected (Jose Guillen).

The offense has sizable upside and it's almost impossible to lose 100 games with either the offense or defense/pitching being better than league average. While the pitching while likely stink as a whole, Acevedo/Claussen/Harang are a lot more talented than some of the fellas throwing for the Reds in '04.

I'm guessing 77-85 for the Reds.
   2. Sam Hutcheson Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614951)
Szymborski: Small sample size, Sammy? Larson got a shot for all of two weeks and has been much better in the minors since his eye surgery - DS

Yes, yes, yes. Larson's production in the bigs is a copious amount of meaningless samples. Yes, he could post something quality. But I don't see any reason to expect that he will. He's unlikely to under perform Castro again, but I put even odds at him being worse than Wes Helms, or Mark Derosa, or some similar stop-gap option around the league.

Your mileage, and ZIPS, may vary.
   3. Mike Emeigh Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614952)
The Reds are frightfully shallow behind the front-line talent. If *anyone* gets hurt, the dropoff to the replacement is steep - and most teams don't go through a season without anyone getting hurt, especially teams with a 40-YO SS and a 34-YO CF who hasn't played a full season since his first year in town.

Larson had a 1.060 OPS in Louisville in 2002, and a 1.001 OPS there in 2003 in similar numbers of plate appearances; I hardly think that qualifies as *better* performance after the surgery. I think he'll be around league average offensively and defensively once he's given a chance to adjust, but not much more than that. There's no question that the Reds panicked after the first month of the season when Larson got off to a slow start and Boone demonstrated that he couldn't really handle second.

Smitherman has always hit, but he's also been old for his leagues (23 in low-A, 24 in high-A, 25 in AA) and he's not much more than a grade B-/C+ prospect, IMO. Encarnacion, on the other hand, held his own at age 20 in AA - I especially like the improvement in both his BB rate and his K rate in 2003 - and I think his long-term future is much brighter.

77-85 with this group of starters and the aging defense of Larkin and Griffey up the middle behind them is about as good as it's likely to be if everything goes right. Claussen is the only starter who has a chance to be good, and if he gets hurt, look out below. The Reds, to me, shape up as a low-to-mid-70s win team if everyone stays healthy.

-- MWE
   4. mike green Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614953)
Wow, I must be off in left field on this one. I have nothing against the Reds, loved Joe Morgan and Eric Davis, admired the '90 miracle, but...I've marked them down for 58 wins this year. They look to me to be significantly worse than the Brewers, and a little worse than the Pirates.

I see their offence as a little below league average. They scored less than 700 runs last year, despite Guillen's freakish half-season. Allowing for improvements from Dunn and Griffey, and a decline from Larkin, it looks to me like they'll be at about the same place. Their pitching will likely be about as bad or maybe a little worse.

Sam didn't mention it, but they significantly outperformed their pythags last year.
   5. Dan Szymborski Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614954)
Larson's eye surgery was before the 2002 season, not 2003. He went from 255/312/415 in 2001 to 340/393/667 in 2002. Certainly he was repeating a level, but that's much bigger than the typical repeater burst.

   6. Nick S Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614958)
Bradon Larson (minor league stats in link) has a 900 OPS in 1100 AAA PA and a 500 OPS in 200 MLB PA. I'd say that's very good reason to think that he can be an above average 3B at the plate for his age 28 season. His defense may be poor, as you say (I have no idea), but he doesn't look like much of a downgrade from Boone, and considering the money saved and the Claussen gained, I think this was a very good decision by Cincy (Who were probably basing there decision on solid minor league numbers, not 50 ML at-bats)

I have thought every previous of these great team previews to be overly optimistic (I presume they are written by authors who know the team quite well, i.e. fans), but this one just looks too pessimistic. The Reds don't look like a .500 team, but worse than last year? They look like a team primed for some of the good kind of regression, what with Dunn and Griffey very likely to provide significantly more production than last year, the additions of Jiminez and Lidle (who is pretty solidly a league average pitcher).
   7. Mike Webber Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614959)
"#1 Dave Miley is NOT Bob Boone. If you didn't follow the reds on a regular basis, you simply can't understand how aimless the organization became when both the manager and the GM followed the latest shiny thing that crossed their paths. Simply not haveing Bob Boone in the dugout makes this a better team."

As a Royal fan, I have to back this statement 100%. He was so bad here in Kansas City, mostly due to negative attitude and micro-managing his players, that was STUNNED when he got another managing position. If the team you root for ever hires Boone, just dig in for three years of garbage, young players being mentally assaulted and going backward developmentally.

Boone is a psychology major from Stanford, and trust me he’ll tell you about it, who truly thinks he is always the smartest man in the room. In KC he always tried to prove his genius to everyone by pulling a bunch of double steals, and incessant bunting.

In Kansas City, some of the young players recovered, like Dye and Sweeney, but some folded the tent on their career, like Sal Fasano and Bob Hamelin. Maybe Fasano and Hamelin had no chance of being stars, but Fasano could have been a guy that had a couple years as a starter, and Hamelin could have John Jaha’s or Paul Sorento’s career.

Do you remember the Bill James manager in a box question that asked, if there was no professional baseball what would he be doing? The correct answer for Boone is, “He would be an micro-managing IRS auditor.”
   8. Mike Emeigh Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614960)
Yeah, they have to sort through the pitchers again, but....this time much of what they will be sorting through is young and will be around for a couple of years.

Claussen is 25. Acevedo, Harang, Reith, and Reitsma are 26. Haynes and Wilson are 31. Lidle is 32. They're not really all *that* young, and except for Claussen and (maybe) Acevedo, I don't see any real upside in this group. The Reds have some decent pitching prospects for the future, but a fair number of them (Gruler, Basham, Hudson, Aramboles, Hall) are coming off injuries, and it's impossible to tell which (if any) of them will recover enough to make a contribution. Cincy will still be sorting through pitchers this year and well into 2005 as well.

-- MWE
   9. Walt Davis Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614962)
I also think this is overly pessimistic.

1) Larson should be OK. Nothing great, but nothing substantially different than what Boone gave them overall either.

2) I don't see any reason to think that Corky Miller isn't a perfectly adequate replacement for Kelly Stinnet. Miller's only had 193 ML ABs, but in that time he's given the Reds the same production they got out of Stinnett the last 2 years. And Miller has a career 800+ OPS at AAA. There's no dropoff here.

3) More PAs from Jimenez, Kearns, and Dunn seems highly likely. And while I agree that Dunn's development so far has hardly been encouraging, there's no reason I can think of to not expect improvement from Kearns.

4) Sure, Larkin will get hurt again and probably stink a bit more than last year, but how is this substantially different than what happened last year?

Offensively, this is pretty much the exact same team, except they've swapped out Boone for Larson. A couple guys are older and in decline, a couple guys younger and good bets to improve, and though they've been an injury-prone team, it's hard to imagine they won't get more total PAs out of their better hitters. Yes, there's no depth here, but there was no depth here last year either (except for the Guillen miracle).

Which brings us to pitching.

Yes, that's a very scary staff. But look at last year's. No pitcher had more than 170 IP. Only four pitchers topped 100 IP, and one of those was a reliever. Dempster and Haynes posted ERAs in the 6.50 region. Anderson, Etherton, Austin, Randall, and Hall combined for about 150 innings with an ERA over 7.

Does the 2004 pitching staff look substantially better? Not really, though Lidle should at least be good for 180 IP. But it's almost impossible for it to be worse. In fact, their pitching last year was just about as bad as the Tigers (Reds ERA+ was about 78, Tigers was about 75).

To pull a Tigers, you need to be at the league bottom in scoring and defense (adjusted), and usually by quite a bit. The Reds may well remain there in pitching, but the only way they'll be that bad in hitting is if everything goes wrong. The Tigers on offense last year were 1.2 runs below league-average. For the Reds to do that, they'd have to be worse than the Dodgers were last year.

But I'll also agree that 75 wins is probably the best this team can hope for if everything goes right, with mid-60s more likely. It does seem close to certain that they'll give up at least 5 runs a game and probably more. The offense will likely be better but they're not going to make it to 5 runs a game even if everyone stays healthy.
   10. Mike Emeigh Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:13 PM (#614964)
Something else to chew on:

The Reds could be dumping salaries this summer. As Sam noted, there are already rumors swirling around Griffey, the Reds have wanted to move Casey for quite a while, Graves isn't cheap, and I've been hearing noises to the effect that LaRue could be trade bait because he'll probably get very expensive soon. Dunn and Kearns are also getting closer to the point at which they will become expensive - I think Dunn is arb-eligible after this season. If the Reds are really serious about rebuilding, they might very well decide that they can't afford any of those players. I don't *expect* them to trade Kearns or Dunn, mind you - but it could very well happen if they fall out of contention early and O'Brien can't move Junior or Casey.

-- MWE
   11. rich Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:14 PM (#614968)
Wow, that's a very harsh critique.

You're right that things need to break for the Reds to have any chance, but the best case scenario isn't that unlikely is it?

I dunno, I doubt the Reds will surprise anyone in 2004, the organisation just doesn't seem to be going in the right direction, but the picture's nowhere near as bleak as the article makes it sound... is it?

   12. mike green Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:14 PM (#614969)
Maybe I was a bit off. Walt Davis sold me that my number should be 62-63 wins, instead of 58. The Reds' pythags had them with 63 wins last year, and on balance they should be about the same.

I will admit that there is a fair bit of variability here (it's not as though there is no offensive talent on the team). This is a team that could win 50 or 77 games and I wouldn't be shocked.
   13. Mike Emeigh Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:14 PM (#614972)
They need a steady rotation of Lidle, Wilson, Claussen, Reitsma, and Acevedo all posting ERAs lower than 5.00; and that isn't an unreasonable proposition.

Haynes will be in there somewhere if he's healthy, of course - with Reitsma probably in the bullpen.

Kearns and Casey are the only good glove men on this team. Larkin's D has been going downhill, as has Griffey's (Junior was horrible last year, -15 UZR in 42 games). The rest of the team is average, or a bit below. I think it's likely that the defense as a whole will be no better than average, and I don't see pitchers who allow large numbers of balls in play (e.g. most of the Reds' staff) as likely to be successful without a defense that is better than average.

-- MWE
   14. Dolf Lucky Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:14 PM (#614973)
I'm a Reds fan, which means that I'm not expecting much out of this ballclub, but the ZIPS projection and the outlook for Jose Acevedo is way too poor.

Here's Acevedo's career marks in the minors:
A-ball: 3.87 ERA
AA-ball: 3.69
AAA-ball: 3.26

He's gotten better every year, and has the requisite gas to do well in the bigs. Shandler projects an ERA of 3.99 for him. All things being equal, just having Acevedo in the rotation instead of Ryan Dempster should be several wins on the plus side.
   15. Walt Davis Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:14 PM (#614975)
Sam made, and Mike reinforced, the excellent point that the Reds are still looking to dump salary. And I'd agree that if the Reds move a bunch of their decent players without getting some MLB-ready talent in return, then they might well be no more than an injury or two away from Tiger-land.

There are two other reasons I'm a bit more optimistic on Reds than Sam. First, I'm not sure they're any worse than Pittsburgh and Milwaukee. Pittsburgh's pitching is probably better (Kip Wells if nothing else), but their offense appears worse. If you want a worse 1B than Casey, there's Simon; if you want a worse SS than an aged Larkin, there's Wilson; if you want a worse 3B than Larson, there's Stynes. Kearns v. Mondesi; Dunn v. an injured Bay; Griffey v. Redman; Jimenez v. Sanchez probably all come out in the Reds favor in 2004. That leaves Kendall v. LaRue as the Pirates only bright spot.

With Milwaukee, if anybody's a bigger injury risk than Griffey it's Jenkins (what were they thinking with that extension). I'm not sure Milwaukee's offense looks any better (depends on how the kids play) and other than Sheets their pitching doesn't look that much better. Milwaukee should pass the Reds in 2005 though given the way things look.

Having two other lousy teams in the division gives them a shot at 15+ wins against those two and even if they play .333 ball against everyone else, that gets them to about 60 wins.

The other reason is that the Reds weren't nearly this bad in 2002 (78-84, pythag 75-87), with a pretty similar cast of characters as they had in 2003 and 2004. They got the miracle Dessens year and still had the deep bullpen, so the pitching was better than can be expected this year.

Add it all up and it's just hard for me to believe that the "true" 2004 Reds, as they stand now, are any worse than a mid-60s win team.
   16. Sam Hutcheson Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:14 PM (#614976)
Walt Davis wrote: Having two other lousy teams in the division gives them a shot at 15+ wins against those two and even if they play .333 ball against everyone else, that gets them to about 60 wins.

This is an excellent point.
   17. Lester Posted: March 09, 2004 at 11:14 PM (#614978)
For what it's worth, PECOTA seems to love Adam Dunn. His weighted mean projection for 2004 is .278, .401, .560 - and PECOTA sees him maintaining that level of performance for the foreseeable future. Don't know if it's his comps or something else, but they obviously see something they like. As a Dodgers fan, I'd love to us get him for one of our young pitching prospects (Miller or Hanrahan, not Jackson). There were rumors about such a swap a few month's back, but nothing came of it.
   18. MM1f Posted: March 13, 2004 at 11:15 PM (#615043)
"Brandon Larson is 28 this season. He has never managed to show he can hit major league pitching. Surely having 27 or 26 year olds posting great numbers in the minors is not a guarantee that they will produce at the N.L. level ?"

No, but it gives you a better shot at decency than giving Juan Castro 400 PAs
   19. Ziggy Posted: March 16, 2004 at 11:16 PM (#615112)
The Reds will not be 03 Tigers bad this year. Nor will they break 500. I think the mid 60s win projections are good, with maybe 72-73 being the high end of reasonable. Having Claussen around for the year improves the pitching, but the staff is still terrible.

The Reds need to plan for the future, and the future is probabaly not next year. If they're looking to dump salary then it's Griffey that will go, Cinci would have to cover lots of Casey's contract to get anyone to take him. Personally, I think the wise course of action would be to eat some/all of Casey's contract in exchange for minor leaguers will arms, and move Griffey to 1B in the hopes of keeping him healthy.

I'm concerned that the next good Reds team is so far from now that Dunn and Kearns will get expensive and traded before then, but I don't seem them being traded this year.
   20. Sam Hutcheson Posted: March 25, 2004 at 11:20 PM (#615380)
Mike: I am of the opinion the Barry Larkin is unlikely to be a productive major leaguer in 2004.
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