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— BTF's Preseason Previews

Thursday, April 03, 2003

Oakland A’s

The A’s had yet another glorious regular season featuring another marvelous second half (and a winning streak you may have heard about), followed by another ignominious post-season defeat, followed by another good, and I think better than it looks, offseason.

First, the downside. The A’s won 103 games, but their Pythagorean record (i.e their predicted performance based on their runs scored and allowed) was just 96 wins. Their record in 1-run games was an excellent 32-14. They won despite serious offensive struggles at C, CF, and, in the first half, RF because they received better than expected performances from Jeremy Giambi (while he was there), Scott Hatteberg, Mark Ellis, and of course John Mabry. All of these suggest the A’s had more than their fair share of luck last year.

On the upside, the A’s featured perhaps the strongest starting rotation in the league and were 3rd in the AL in defensive efficiency (turning balls-in-play into outs). Put it all together and, although the bullpen struggled some, they gave up the 2nd fewest runs in the league. Miguel Tejada won the MVP, Barry Zito won the Cy Young, Jermaine Dye improved in the second half of the season (giving hope he’s back to form after the broken leg), and Chad Bradford continued to be a great bargain.

Are they a better team in 2003? They’re mostly the same team in 2003, so let’s look at the major changes.

Erubiel Durazo. Durazo can hit. This comes as a surprise to no one, though some out there seem to have begun to doubt this. The question is, can he hit enough?

It’s not that his hitting ability should be doubted, it’s that he has big shoes to fill. Noone ever thought the day would come when John Mabry would leave a team with big shoes to fill, but, in 2002, Mabry and Giambi combined for an OBP of 354 and a SLG of 500 in 398 PA. You can probably expect a little more out of Durazo than that, and hopefully more PA, but he’s not likely to be a difference-maker. He’ll be a much better player than Mabry 2003, but probably not that much better than Mabry 2002.

Of course he also has an extensive injury history and hasn’t hit lefties at all (though it’s only a meager 108 AB, irregularly spread out over 3 seasons), so maybe 398 PA is about right.

The Foulke-Koch trade. On the surface, Keith Foulke and Billy Koch look pretty similar. Foulke has a career ERA of 3.36 (ERA+ of 139) while Koch has the slightly higher career ERA of 3.48 (ERA+ of 138) but is two years younger than Foulke.

However, Foulke’s career numbers are badly skewed by the disastrous start of his career. Coming up in 1997 as a starter for the Giants, Foulke pitched 44 2/3 innings and gave up a staggering 41 earned runs. Since being moved to the pen by the White Sox in the latter part of 1997, Foulke has posted an ERA of 2.87. His ERA+ for the last 4 seasons are 215, 174, 198, and 159; Billy Koch has hit those heights only once (2000).

Back to the trade. Although Foulke is clearly the better pitcher, this part of the trade can still be defended because Foulke stands to be a free-agent at the end of the year, while Koch won’t be an FA until after 2004. Foulke is better than Koch, but two years of Koch may be better than one of Foulke. If the A’s can’t re-sign Foulke at a reasonable price, the White Sox will have done fine in this part of the trade.

But where Beane almost always wins is in small trades and the "throw-ins" on bigger trades. Somehow, in exchange for 2 PTBNL, Beane convinced the Sox to part with a solid cheap young C who knows how to walk in Mark Johnson and a live bullpen-ready young arm in Joe Valentine. Johnson is, at worst, a nearly perfect back-up C and I wouldn’t be surprised in the least to see him starting by the end of the year.

So in the short-term, the A’s significantly improved their bullpen and, in the short- and long-terms, improved their catching depth. Nice job.

Chris Singleton?? No move seemed to puzzle, if not downright disappoint, stathead fans more than the A’s signing Singleton. This low-offense, undisciplined, no-power centerfielder appears to be the opposite of an A’s player. However, here are some numbers for you:

2000: 269
2001: 265/249
2002: 242

Those are the EQAs of Terrence Long 2000, Long/Johnny Damon 2001, and Long 2002, i.e. Oakland’s CFs of the last 3 seasons. Long is a lousy defensive CF while Damon is a rather good one.

It’s a bit uncertain how good Chris Singleton is defensively as different metrics have him as average, above-average, or excellent, but everyone agrees he’s a major upgrade on Long. What everyone overlooks is that, despite his poor plate discipline, he’s been an OK hitter. His EQAs starting with 1999: 277, 236, 263, 263.

So why Chris Singleton? Singleton gives the equivalent of the best of what Long has given them on offense and a glove closer to what Damon gave them on defense. In other words, scary as it may be, Chris Singleton should be an improvement in CF compared to what they’ve had the last three seasons.

The "problem" with Singleton is that he moves Long to left, where Long may be even less valuable than in center (he’ll be less valuable offensively, but less detrimental defensively, so it may all even out). In other words, the problem is Long, not Singleton.

So what do these changes add up to? Last year the A’s main problems were C, CF and the bullpen. These moves improve all three of those positions and add the small upgrade of Durazo over Mabry/Giambi.

Now that we’ve gone over the big changes, let’s look ahead to 2003:

Offense. The A’s finished 8th in the league in scoring, 5th in the league in OBP, 7th in the league in slugging. Some of that is due to the Coliseum being a pitcher’s park (e.g. the park-adjusted EQA statistic puts them tied for 4th in the league), but no matter how you slice it, the A’s are not an offensive powerhouse. However, if Long can return to his 2000-2001 form and Singleton can maintain what he’s done the last two years, this is a lineup with only one below-average hitter. Here’s the starting lineup:

Ellis, 2B
Hatteberg, 1B
Tejada, SS
Chavez, 3B
Dye, RF
Durazo, DH
Long, LF
Hernandez, C
Singleton, CF

The bench for the A’s looks to be quite good. The A’s plan to go with 11 pitchers, opening up 5 bench spots for hitters. C Mark Johnson and middle infielder Frank Menechino are practically guaranteed two of those spots. For the remaining three spots, the A’s had the following players in camp: Ron Gant, Eric Byrnes, Adam Piatt, Mitch Meluskey, Rontrez Johnson, Billy McMillon, and Jason Grabowski. That’s 7 guys capable of being productive bench players competing for three spots, which is a good plan. Johnson has since been sent back to the Rangers (and picked up by the Royals), Meluskey has been sent down, and Grabowski will almost certainly go back to AAA. Byrnes has an option left, so it looks like it will be Gant, Piatt, and McMillon. Still, almost no matter what choice they make, they’ll have a strong bench.

Overall, the A’s offense should be eerily similar to last year’s. Like 2001 and 2002, expect the offense to need a mid-season boost. Like 2001 (Dye) and 2002 (Durham), expect Beane to make a move.

Pitching and Defense. Zito, Mulder, Hudson. While there’s some reasons to think that Zito isn’t quite as good as he’s looked, there’s no question this is the best trio of starters in the game. The only question I had about them going into 2002 was whether Mulder’s jump from 5.1 K/9 to 6.0 K/9 was for real, and he answered that by bumping it all the way up to 6.9 K/9. If A’s fans still want something to fret over, all I can offer is that Hudson has fallen to 5.7 K/9.

At last report, the 4th spot is going to Ted Lilly and the 5th spot to John Halama with Ed Yarnall and Aaron Harang down in AAA, and Rich Harden possibly up by mid-season. I like Halama and think he could be a lefty version of Cory Lidle.

The bullpen appears to be set and looks quite strong. Foulke is perhaps the best reliever in baseball, Rincon is an effective lefty-killer, Bradford is a durable sidearmer. Jeremy Fikac has looked good this spring. Lefty Micah Bowie and Rule 5-er Mike Neu round out the pen, with Jim Mecir due back soon. With Foulke’s history as a multi-inning reliever and his desire to become a starter, it will be interesting to see if the A’s will use him for more extended outings.

On defense, the A’s should again be near the top. Chavez and Hatteberg anchor a very solid infield defense; Dye should be more fully recovered from his broken leg and return to at least an average RF; Singleton is an upgrade in CF. That leaves LF as the only question mark, but Long has been about average when playing there before and Ron Gant is surprisingly good.

Prediction for 2003. The A’s look like the AL West favorites to me. I don’t expect them to win over 100 games again unless Beane significantly upgrades the offense. But 90-95 wins seem to be a good bet, and I think that will be enough to squeak out a win in this tough division.

What could derail those plans? The A’s have sufficient depth just about everywhere but SS and 3B, who also happen to be their two best players. A serious injury to either Tejada or Chavez would put the A’s in a very tough spot. The starting staff is the other key to this team and while I think they could hang in there if one of their aces goes down for a bit, injuries to 2 of the 3 big guns would probably be too much to overcome.

Looking further ahead. Whether the A’s will be good in 2003 was a fairly easy question to answer, but what about the future? Here’s how long the A’s have their core players under their control (via contract or arbitration, assuming all reasonable options exercised):

2003: Tejada, Foulke
2004: Dye, Chavez
2005: Hudson, Hernandez, Long, Durazo
2006: Zito, Mulder, Johnson
2007: Ellis

First, we can see that this team should remain good through 2004 at least and, since the core pitchers are signed through 2005-2006, should be at least competitive through then. It’s hard to imagine a GM doing a better job of tying up productive young players at reasonable prices.

The A’s have already announced that they won’t re-sign Tejada, but they should have a shot at keeping Chavez with Dye’s $10 million per year coming off the books after 2004. This means A’s fans need to keep their fingers crossed on Bobby Crosby, though I wouldn’t be surprised to see the A’s sign a stopgap SS for 2004 (Jose Hernandez maybe).

That’s not to say it’s all rosy. The Dye contract looked badly overpriced from the start and the Hernandez and Long contracts have turned into very bad ideas. The A’s will be spending about $30 million on those three players over the next two years (not to mention what was spent in 2002), money that either could have been more wisely invested now to push this team into the stratosphere or could have been saved up to help with resigning Tejada and Chavez.

2003 ZiPS Projections - Click for info

PO Player       G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB  SO SB CS   BA  OBP  SLG
C  Hernandez  140 431  54 106 22  0 12  53 42  65  1  0 .246 .321 .381
1B Durazo      79 208  36  51 11  1 13  37 42  53  0  1 .245 .377 .495
2B Ellis      128 456  70 124 29  3  7  42 52  73 10  4 .272 .352 .395
3B Chavez     157 577  94 167 31  2 36 112 61 108  7  2 .289 .359 .537
SS Tejada     162 653 110 194 31  1 35 126 47  88  8  2 .297 .354 .508
LF Long       160 612  85 164 34  4 16  77 51  94  5  4 .268 .326 .415
CF Singleton  141 465  63 122 26  5  9  48 25  78 15  8 .262 .304 .398
RF Dye        147 560  80 149 30  1 26  92 60 106  3  1 .266 .346 .463
DH Hatteberg  121 412  45 109 21  2 11  47 56  47  0  1 .265 .359 .405
c  Johnson     98 304  37  73 10  1  7  27 39  56  2  1 .240 .333 .349
c  Meluskey   100 294  34  84 16  0 11  50 50  61  1  0 .286 .394 .452
if Menechino  124 427  66  97 19  1  9  52 63  91  3  5 .227 .332 .340
if Lopez      131 488  55 131 24  1  8  60 51  55  1  2 .268 .344 .371
2b German     134 490  85 132 17  3  5  37 74  83 24 12 .269 .370 .347
of Piatt      113 353  51  94 20  1 10  49 42  72  4  3 .266 .350 .414
of Byrnes     113 331  60  89 18  1 13  37 25  52 12  3 .269 .326 .447
of Gant       102 308  49  72 18  1 15  45 36  74  3  7 .234 .317 .445
of Grabowski  107 376  59 101 26  3 12  53 56  87  4  4 .269 .369 .449

PO Player        W  L  ERA  G GS  IP   H ER HR BB  SO
SP Zito         17  9 3.33 34 34 211 172 78 16 70 212
SP Hudson       15 10 3.67 34 34 227 213 93 18 64 180
SP Mulder       15 10 3.46 31 31 203 189 78 16 47 169
SP Lilly         6  5 4.06 27 21 124 110 56 16 43 119
SP Halama        8  9 4.67 31 19 131 141 68 15 39  69
SP Harang       10  7 3.87 28 26 142 127 61  8 57 112
SP Hiljus        6  7 4.76 29 18 121 117 64 21 41 106
SP Duchscherer   8  7 4.02 22 22 132 124 59 15 40 100
RP Neu           4  2 3.66 58  0  64  50 26  6 28  73
RP Snow          3  3 4.17 54  0  54  40 25  6 32  68
RP Harville      2  4 5.00 38  0  45  40 25  8 23  47
RP Bowie         6  8 4.81 39 14 118 112 63 14 57  94
RP Fikac         5  5 4.22 71  0  81  77 38 10 27  69
RP Rincon        3  1 3.24 65  0  50  44 18  3 14  44
RP Bradford      4  2 3.00 65  0  66  60 22  3 12  51
CL Foulke        6  2 2.96 65  0  79  67 26  5 17  73
ZiPS is not a playing time predictor and should not be added for team totals.
Walt Davis Posted: April 03, 2003 at 12:00 AM | 25 comment(s)
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   1. Darren Posted: April 02, 2003 at 09:54 PM (#610210)
Beane's a terrible outfield assembler. If he and Bowdein ever got together, they'd be unstoppable.
   2. Walt Davis Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:54 PM (#610213)
FYI, those last 3 bench spots went to Byrnes, Piatt, and Gant, which means no lefty bat (other than Johnson) on the bench most games.

Greg, I agree that T Long is sunk costs, but I guess the A's aren't there yet. But Durazo in the OF doesn't sound like a great idea to me -- might make Jeremy Giambi look like Roger Cedeno, if you know what I mean.

Kielty obviously would be great but I can't imagine what the Twins would want from Oakland. More likely is a OF in his walk year -- anyone got any suggestions.

To forewarn folks, I'm swamped with work the next few days and probably won't be around in this thread to answer your questions or defend my honor or kiss up to Beane until probably Tuesday. So fire away!
   3. Michael Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:54 PM (#610214)
The obvious answer is Shannon Stewart. You expect him to be about 300/370/450 with good speed. On defense his arm is suspect but his range is great and many have him an above average LF. He only makes ~$6 million so half a year of his salary isn't out of the question. He is a free agent at the end of the year and the jays have other OF options (not as good but cheaper) to try out if they trade him. Plus everybody knows Beane and Riccardi like to talk trades. The question is what could Oakland give the Jays?

Maybe someone like Rheinecker or Harden.
   4. ColonelTom Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:54 PM (#610223)
Anyone know how bad Jason Grabowski is behind the plate? He's versatile and swings a good bat from the left side. I was really surprised he didn't stick this spring, as he appears to be the prototypical A's player by the numbers.
   5. Mike Emeigh Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:54 PM (#610227)
The Twins have a deep outfield and seem to undervalue Bobby Kielty which always seems to be a clue to Beane to go out and grab a guy.

The Twins don't undervalue Kielty. He's IMO the best 4th OF in the game - he handles CF without a significant dropoff defensively, he's a switch-hitter so you don't have to worry about a platoon disadvantage, and he doesn't cost you much of anything offensively. Sure, he could start for a number of teams, but he's got tremendous value to the Twins, and they aren't going to give that value away, especially for a middle infielder who isn't guaranteed to be substantially better than what they already have (and I'm not convinced that German is going to be a hell of a lot better than Rivas).

-- MWE
   6. bob mong Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610232)
Foulke is perhaps the best reliever in baseball

I think that is a pretty big overstatement. He is certainly better than Koch, but the best in baseball?....well, you decide.

Here is a (arbitrarily chosen) list of relievers, along with their stats for the last three years, sorted by K/BB ratio:<font>First Last IP K BB HR H ER K/9 BB/9 HR/9 H/9 ERA K/BB WHIP
Arthur Rhodes 207 241 54 15 142 64 10.48 2.35 0.65 6.17 2.78 4.46 0.95
Robb Nen 217.3 266 61 12 159 55 11.02 2.53 0.50 6.59 2.28 4.36 1.01
Trevor Hoffman 192 217 50 19 161 65 10.17 2.34 0.89 7.55 3.05 4.34 1.10
Keith Foulke 246.7 224 57 19 188 75 8.17 2.08 0.69 6.86 2.74 3.93 0.99
Mariano Rivera 202.3 182 48 12 154 59 8.10 2.14 0.53 6.85 2.62 3.79 1.00
Kazuhiro Sasaki 190.3 213 62 22 134 63 10.07 2.93 1.04 6.34 2.98 3.44 1.03
Billy Wagner 165.3 195 60 18 123 59 10.62 3.27 0.98 6.70 3.21 3.25 1.11
Octavio Dotel 327.3 405 135 38 264 126 11.14 3.71 1.04 7.26 3.46 3.00 1.22
Eddie Guardado 196 189 66 28 155 75 8.68 3.03 1.29 7.12 3.44 2.86 1.13
Jason Isringhausen 205.7 199 73 11 167 96 8.71 3.19 0.48 7.31 4.20 2.73 1.17
Ramiro Mendoza 258 161 59 26 257 108 5.62 2.06 0.91 8.97 3.77 2.73 1.22
Byung-Hun Kim 252.7 316 116 24 174 86 11.25 4.13 0.85 6.20 3.06 2.72 1.15
Armando Benitez 219.7 278 103 30 144 71 11.39 4.22 1.23 5.90 2.91 2.70 1.12
Steve Karsay 253 214 80 17 239 87 7.61 2.85 0.60 8.50 3.09 2.68 1.26
Mike Remlinger 215.7 234 88 18 170 66 9.76 3.67 0.75 7.09 2.75 2.66 1.20
Troy Percival 164 188 73 15 119 54 10.32 4.01 0.82 6.53 2.96 2.58 1.17
Mike Stanton 226.3 197 81 13 221 80 7.83 3.22 0.52 8.79 3.18 2.43 1.33
Steve Reed 181.3 135 58 15 166 65 6.70 2.88 0.74 8.24 3.23 2.33 1.24
Antonio Osuna 139.3 142 65 11 129 67 9.17 4.20 0.71 8.33 4.33 2.18 1.39
Billy Koch 241.7 208 97 20 220 94 7.75 3.61 0.74 8.19 3.50 2.14 1.31
Jose Mesa 225.7 207 100 20 219 91 8.25 3.99 0.80 8.73 3.63 2.07 1.41
Scott Williamson 186.7 220 113 12 139 65 10.61 5.45 0.58 6.70 3.13 1.95 1.35
Jeff Nelson 180.7 214 116 9 110 59 10.66 5.78 0.45 5.48 2.94 1.84 1.25
Scott Sauerbeck 201 232 128 12 187 89 10.39 5.73 0.54 8.37 3.99 1.81 1.57</font></pre>I think this shows that Rhodes and Nen are the best relievers in baseball. Foulke might be the next best, but he might not be.

Another interesting point: Foulke's numbers look pretty similar to Mariano Rivera's - it looks like Billy Beane got himself Mariano Rivera to close for him in 2003.
   7. Darren Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610235)
Looking at the chart, I don't see the big drop off between Nen/Rhodes and Foulke. Nen might edge him out, but it's pretty close. (All three are similiar in K/BB, HR/9, and WHIP.)

Foulke also scores points for his 246 IP--30 more than Nen and 40 more than Rhodes.

   8. Mr. Tapeworm Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610236)
Bob --

The top five relievers are pretty close, but I'd hold off on Rhodes as the best -- Rhodes, Hoffman and Foulke all have higher HR/9 rates than Rivera. Judging by these stats, I'd call Nen the best over the past thre e years. His HR/9 is slightly less than Rivera's. This year, I'd take Foulke or Rhodes, since Nen, Hoffman and Rivera are injured. I think Foulke, if he remains a reliever, has the best future ahead of him.
   9. Jimbo Jones Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610239)
It never occurred to me that Rhodes might be the best reliever in the game, even as I watched him pitch regularly over the last three years. Cool.

I thought the claim about Foulke was a big overstatement, but looking at the data more carefully, I now think it was a surprisingly small overstatement.

Nice job Walt.
   10. bob mong Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610242)
Just to make things perfectly clear, I sorted the list by K/BB ratio, but I don't think that that is the definitive measure of a reliever's quality. In other words, I don't think Rhodes is better than Nen just because his K/BB ratio is slightly higher. That said, in response to a few comments:

Looking at the chart, I don't see the big drop off between Nen/Rhodes and Foulke.

I suppose there isn't really. Nen and Rhodes both walk more men than Foulke, but I figured that very small difference (2.08 BB/9 for Foulke vs. 2.35 BB/9 for Rhodes and 2.53 BB/9 for Nen) was more than made up for by the fact that each of them allows fewer homeruns (though, again, that difference is very small) and, more importantly, Nen and Rhodes both strike out significantly more batters (per nine innings) than Foulke. With all the stat-head (I mean that in the best way :) emphasis on strikeout rates, I would think that that big of a difference would be an accepted marker of a difference in quality.

Octavio Dotel, 2001-2002:<font>First Last IP K BB HR H ER K/9 BB/9 HR/9 H/9 ERA K/BB WHIP
Octavio Dotel 202.3 263 74 12 137 51 11.7 3.29 0.53 6.09 2.27 3.55 1.04</font></pre>This isn't really fair, though, since a couple of the guys on my other list also had sub-par 2000 seasons. Like Arthur Rhodes, for one.

But anyway, here is another list, of the same relievers. This one lists their H%, again for the last three years.<font> H - HR
H% = -----------------------
(IP * 3) - K + H - HR


First Last H%
Armando Benitez 0.230
Jeff Nelson 0.235
Kazuhiro Sasaki 0.238
Eddie Guardado 0.241
Keith Foulke 0.247
Arthur Rhodes 0.250
Mariano Rivera 0.250
Byung-Hun Kim 0.253
Troy Percival 0.255
Billy Wagner 0.259
Mike Remlinger 0.269
Steve Reed 0.270
Jason Isringhausen 0.272
Scott Williamson 0.272
Ramiro Mendoza 0.274
Robb Nen 0.276
Billy Koch 0.279
Octavio Dotel 0.281
Trevor Hoffman 0.283
Steve Karsay 0.289
Jose Mesa 0.297
Antonio Osuna 0.299
Mike Stanton 0.301
Scott Sauerbeck 0.321</font></pre>Anyone have any thoughts on these data?

I thought the claim about Foulke was a big overstatement, but looking at the data more carefully, I now think it was a surprisingly small overstatement.

I echo that sentiment. I compiled this data intending to show that Foulke had good control but wasn't that good otherwise, due to his pedestrian strikeout rate (for a reliever). Instead, I found that, in my opinion, he is one of the top 5 relievers in baseball, despite his (relatively) low strikeout rate.
   11. Darren Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610243)
Dotel as a reliever last 3 years:

As Reliever 2.26 ERA 174 G, 215.1 IP, 139 H, 59 R, 54 ER 16 HR, 79 BB 295 K.

K/9: 12.32, BB/9: 3.30, K/BB: 3.73, HR/9: .67, WHIP: 1.01

Damn!

   12. Walt Davis Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610244)
Well, it's 5 on a Friday, I've been here since 7, and the Cubs come on at 7, so who's kidding who about how much more work I'm gonna get done today.

First the big question -- how'd you get that table to look so damn good. That's a lot of &&bsp;'s. :-)

As to the other question, I did say he's perhaps the best reliever. Though, to be honest, I didn't even think about Rhodes (though I should have). But let's see how well I can defend him.

The only reliever in the table with significantly more IP is Dotel, but that includes 91 IP as a starter in 2000, so let's say that Foulke pitches as many innings as any of the top relievers. [Note, Dotel's numbers would look better if limited to his relief innings, so ignoring those 91 innings would improve his other stats, probably bringing him equal or maybe edging out Foulke]

Other than presumably Dotel, when you look at other relievers who've thrown about the same # of innings (Mendoza, Kim, Karsay, Koch) he's noticeably better than any of them.

In that table, he's (I believe) 3rd in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 4th in K/BB. Of course Nen, Rhodes, Rivera are pretty similar, so his main advantage over those folks is his IP. Really I think it probably comes down to whather those 30-40-50 extra innings are worth a couple points of WHIP, ERA and K/BB. I suspect they are more than worth it.

Also, in Rhodes case, he benefits a little from getting to face a disproportionate number of lefties -- not that he's not very effective against righties, just that he gets that platoon advantage more than you might expect. (and interestingly, Foulke has faced more lefties than righties over the last 3 years)

For those who are fans of "traditional" stats that are only a few decades old, I don't know how this compares, but he's 87 for 98 in save opportunities the last 3 years with his saves total hurt by the Sox foolishly losing faith in him last year.

On fancier stats, early last season, one of the Prospectus folks did a study looking at their "adjusted runs prevented" measure over the previous 3 (?) seasons and found that Foulke did in fact lead everyone over that time. Unfortunately, their 2002 stats have been replaced by 2003 stats already so I can't check how he did last year. [Note, they deserve more credit for noticing how good he's been than me -- I knew he was good but didn't realize quite how good until reading that article]

Anyone want to run DIPS on those numbers?

So while it's clearly open to debate about whether Foulke is indeed the best reliever, I think it's safe to say that he's among the best, which I think makes the statement that he's perhaps the best reasonable.

If you really put a gun to my head, I'd probably go Healthy Rivera, Dotel, Foulke.

Actually, if you didn't put a gun to my head, I'd probably solve this quandary by moving Dotel and Foulke back into the rotation. :-)
   13. bob mong Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610245)
One more reliever that, for some reason, I left out:<font>First Last IP K BB HR H ER K/9 BB/9 HR/9 H/9 ERA K/BB WHIP H%
Ugueth Urbina 140 182 49 18 113 53 11.70 3.15 1.16 7.26 3.41 3.71 1.16 0.285</font></pre>Note that he has the highest K/9 ratio of any reliever on my original list, and his K/BB ratio would put him 7th on the list above, between Kazuhiro Sasaki and Mariano Rivera. He should really help the Texas bullpen this year.
   14. Walt Davis Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610246)
Can we really say that they are the 'best' trio of starters or merely that they were the best trio for the season last year?

Now that's the one I expected to get called on. And righly so. An ill-advised rhetorical flourish. They might be the best trio but I did not really sit down and think about that too closely.

As I think about it more closely, I think they still take it. Maddux, Glavine, Millwood certainly could have laid claim to it the last couple years (esp. last year with Millwood being good again). They Yankees obviously could contend for that title. In some sense, Pedro, Lowe and anybody or Johnson, Schilling and anybody could have laid claim to it for some time. Possibly Wood, Clement, Prior could claim it this year.

However, here are ERA+ for the trio for the last 2 seasons:
Hudson: 129, 156 (career 135)
Mulder: 126, 134 (career 114 only)
Zito: 125, 169 (career 149)

(also 1352 IP among them over those 2 seasons)

So (1) obviously much better in 2002, but also (2) not too shabby in 2001, with Zito and Hudson also very, very good in 2000.

But I'll agree that to say "there is no question" these are the best is an unwarranted statement.
   15. bob mong Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610247)
First the big question -- how'd you get that table to look so damn good. That's a lot of &&bsp;'s. :-)

Simple :) Well, kinda. First, create the table in Excel. Then copy the whole thing to Notepad to Word (with a quick stop in Notepad to convert it to text). Then, do a find & replace of all the [tab] characters with a space. Then, copy the whole thing back to notepad and line everything up (adding/subtracting spaces as necessary). Then, copy it into the add-comment text box, surrounding it with
[font] and [/font]
tags. It's some work, but it sure looks nice, don't it :)

Really I think it probably comes down to whather those 30-40-50 extra innings are worth a couple points of WHIP, ERA and K/BB. I suspect they are more than worth it.

I agree with you. Those 30-50 innings are worth it. But, saying that he is more valuable and saying that he is the best are two different things, I think (worth vs. ability). It isn't Rhodes' fault that he hasn't pitched 80 innings per year instead of 70 for the last three years.

But anyway, I can hang my hat on your conclusion: So while it's clearly open to debate about whether Foulke is indeed the best reliever, I think it's safe to say that he's among the best, which I think makes the statement that he's perhaps the best reasonable.

Sounds good to me :)

And speaking of relievers, did anyone happen to notice that Kazuhiro Sasaki had a four-strikeout, one-inning save today :) That raises his K/9 ratio, for 2003, to 22.5 - not too damn bad!
   16. Walt Davis Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610248)
Anyone have any thoughts on these data?

Just a few, none of which are the holy grail:

1) Now that I think about it, a closer may generally pitch in front of a slightly better defense than a team's starters, due to late-inning defensive replacements.

2) For the denominator, it would be better to use actual BIP rather than the approximation, though I don't know that it would make a lot of difference. ESPN gives you total batters faced (Foulke's $H goes up to 249 if you make that change -- whoopee!)

3) I didn't check them all, but Foulke, Benitez, Nelson, and Sasaki are all flyball pitchers and we know they give up lower $H.

4) I don't know how anybody hits Nelson's pitches.

Bob kinda mentions one worry about Foulke. His K rate actually used to be just fine, even by closer standards -- 10.5/9 in 99; 9.3/9 in 00; 8.3 in 01 is borderline -- but dropped pretty significantly last year to 6.7. And his G/F ratio went up significantly. He may not be the same pitcher he used to be.

One of the interesting things I discovered in the followup to my piece on reliever usage was that today's short relievers do K more than starters, but they also walk more. Foulke is an exception to that latter part, and in fact his BB rate is the 2nd best (Mendoza) in that table and Rivera's the only other one particularly close. His HR rate is pretty good too, especially for a flyball P. He may have been helped by his park there (see also Nen, Robb) but he'll be helped by it in Oakland too.
   17. Walt Davis Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610250)
Some other quick comments, then I'm out of here.

The obvious answer is Shannon Stewart

You're right, it is. A very Ray Durham like batter and since the A's didn't really use Durham's SB prowess, they won't care that Stewart's been laying off the SB the last couple years.

To be fair to the White Sox, Neal Cotts is a pretty good prospect and as a LH starter could have a lot more value than a AA closer. And some could see Mark Johnson as a guy making $600,000 who can draw walks but can't hit (i.e. an easily replaceable backup catcher).

Hmmm...I never found the info on who the PTBNL were, didn't expect the A's to give up anyone worthwhile. As to Johnson, I think the ability to draw walks gives him potential to be among the best backup C -- or an equally good but cheaper option to Hernandez. I didn't know about the salary (WayMoreSports has him at $320,000 and I'm still not clear on how much service time he has).

Either [Piatt] or Byrnes is in for a short stint-- soon to be replaced by either Billy McMillion or, more likely, Adam Melhuse, who played very well in Arizona and can play several different positions, including catcher

Or Meluskey if healthy. As you can see from the article, I expected the A's to take a lefty north.

I'm not sure they're so high on Melhuse, though I'm not sure why not. But I believe they already had him signed before making the Foulke trade that brought Johnson aboard. Johnson and Melhuse seem pretty much interchangeable except Melhuse is a better hitter for power and average. But given they brought in Johnson and Meluskey and I don't remember reading anything about Melhuse in the local papers I checked online, I'm assuming they aren't that high on Melhuse. Melhuse is 31, so maybe they thought they'd give the kids a shot first, then bring him in if they don't work out.

A small quibble: you assess well the offensive impact of the changes until the final summary. If you're going to use positional comparisons (improved at CF), then you have to admit that left field is taking a hit, with Long replacing Justice.

Fair enough. It's hard to assess the A's 2002 LF position as it was a mix of 4-5 different players shuttling between DH and LF. This year too it will be a mix. I roughly figured Durazo vs. Giambi/Mabry makes up for the Long/Justice decline, but I guess that still leaves me "double-counting." Also, in 2001, it was Long/Damon in left and 2000 it was Ben Grieve (who hit well, but was scary defensively). So Long in left also may not be that big of a step down from what they've had the last 3 years if he can get his EQA back up into the 260-270 range.

Wow; ZiPS doesn't like Durazo much at all, does it?

I think Oakland would be fine with a 377/495 year from Durazo -- that's about what I'd expect, maybe a little higher on the SLG (remember, the park effect). Obviously the A's want more than 250 PA.

Now, I know Zips isn't a playing time estimator (I kinda like that about it) but I don't see the point of projecting 250 PA for Durazo while projecting 550 PA for Lopez. If guys like Lopez get projected out to near-full seasons, so should Durazo since he has a much better chance of getting that many PA.

surrounding it with
[font] and [/font]
tags.


Whoa, wait, when did we turn on the pre tags?? This could be revolutionary. Let me give it a whirl:


bob kick ass table
walt perhaps eternally grateful
</pre>

Now, if we could just get the "preview comment" button added to the articles, I'd know whether that worked before risking looking foolish.

I agree with you. Those 30-50 innings are worth it. But, saying that he is more valuable and saying that he is the best are two different things, I think (worth vs. ability). It isn't Rhodes' fault that he hasn't pitched 80 innings per year instead of 70 for the last three years.

Good point. One I agree with, at least as long as we're talking about such a relatively small number of innings (i.e. durability may be a skill for a reliever, but Foulke's innings the last couple years aren't anything extraordinary so there's little question whether most other relievers could match them).
   18. bob mong Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610252)
Whoa, wait, when did we turn on the pre tags??

The pre tags work in article comments, but not in Clutch Hits comments. Been that way for a while now; in fact, I don't remember it any other way.

Now, if we could just get the "preview comment" button added to the articles, I'd know whether that worked before risking looking foolish.

Yeah, wouldn't that be nice? :)

By the way, Walt, good article. Well written; a good, balanced look at the Athletics. A couple of days ago I was surprised to notice that the Athletics were basically average on offense last year (league average: 778 runs; Athletics scored 800*) - gives hope to a Mariners fan :)


*Whether they were slightly above average or not depends on whether you think that the Coliseum played as a hitters park last year (it did, according to <a href=http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/2002.shtml>b-r.com's numbers</a>, a <a href=http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/parkadjust.shtml>3-yr average</a>) or not (every commentary and analysis I have seen has assumed otherwise).
   19. ColonelTom Posted: April 03, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610256)
Grabowski doesn't catch anymore (not sure he ever did?)-- strictly an outfielder/1B type.

Grabowski was a catcher in college and the low minors before moving to 3B (mainly because Pudge Rodriguez had him blocked in the Texas organization, before they drafted Teixiera and Blalock). Doesn't look like he wants to go back to it, but I'll bet he would strap on the shin guards again if it got him a major-league opportunity.
   20. Alan Shank Posted: April 04, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610257)
"First, the downside. The A’s won 103 games, but their Pythagorean record (i.e their predicted performance based on their runs scored and allowed) was just 96 wins. Their record in 1-run games was an excellent 32-14. They won despite serious offensive struggles at C, CF, and, in the first half, RF because they received better than expected performances from Jeremy Giambi (while he was there), Scott Hatteberg, Mark Ellis, and of course John Mabry. All of these suggest the A’s had more than their fair share of luck last year."

It's true that the Angels had a considerably better run differential than Oakland did; however, if you look deeper, at xRuns created and allowed (or whatever is your favorite run-estimating tool), the Angels were the lucky ones at that level. From the "High Boskage House" (Eric Walker's Web Site) baseball pages, here are Anaheim's and Oaklands TOP and TPP figures from last year, compared to their actual runs scored and allowed.

TOP TPP runs allowed
ANA 811 664 851 644
OAK 811 657 800 654

So, whereas Anaheim's actual run differential was 60 runs more than their TOP/TPP differential, Oakland's was 14 fewer. So, was Anaheim luckier in being more efficient at turning their offensive events into runs, or Oakland luckier in turning its runs into wins.

After removing another "layer of luck," the two teams look almost identical. I generally project teams' "expected W-L" based on xRuns produced and allowed. Right now, I'm in Atlanta and don't have access to my own figures from last year.

Because Anaheim's offense was heavy on batting average, my guess is that they are more likely to drop off than Oakland.

Cheers,
Alan Shank

   21. Walt Davis Posted: April 04, 2003 at 09:55 PM (#610260)
Because Anaheim's offense was heavy on batting average, my guess is that they are more likely to drop off than Oakland.

Thanks for the comments, Alan. I pretty much agree with all of them and I specifically agree with the above. I did still pick Oakland to win the division, I just don't expect them to win 100 games. For the record, I expect Anaheim somewhere in the, oh, 86-90 range.
   22. Alan Shank Posted: April 08, 2003 at 09:56 PM (#610303)
"Thanks for the comments, Alan. I pretty much agree with all of them and I specifically agree with the above. I did still pick Oakland to win the division, I just don't expect them to win 100 games. For the record, I expect Anaheim somewhere in the, oh, 86-90 range."

Very rarely does a team actually "expect" to win 100 games, i.e. have an xRuns/allowed that "predicts" 100 wins via the Pythagorean relationship. I think the Yankees did last year, and probably '98 Yankees and possible '00 Mariners.

Cheers,
Alan Shank

   23. Walt Davis Posted: April 11, 2003 at 09:57 PM (#610350)
Very rarely does a team actually "expect" to win 100 games

True, but I'm under the impression my audience is fans, not the A's. :-)
   24. fables of the deconstruction Posted: April 13, 2003 at 09:57 PM (#610360)
Can we really say that they are the 'best' trio of starters or merely that they were
the best trio for the season last year?


Now that's the one I expected to get called on. And righly so. An ill-advised rhetorical
flourish. They might be the best trio but I did not really sit down and think about that
too closely.


As I think about it more closely, I think they still take it. Maddux, Glavine, Millwood
certainly could have laid claim to it the last couple years (esp. last year with Millwood
being good again). They Yankees obviously could contend for that title. In some sense,
Pedro, Lowe and anybody or Johnson, Schilling and anybody could have laid claim to it for
some time. Possibly Wood, Clement, Prior could claim it this year.


...But I'll agree that to say "there is no question" these are the best is an unwarranted
statement.




FWIW...
The seven pitching staffs with the best trio of starters over the 2001 and 2002 seasons:
- The 3 starters must have 90 cumulative starts each season. [Both Bos and Hou failed this requirement in 2001.]
- All teams have 2 starters the same over both seasons. Only Oakland has the same 3 over both years.
- All relief splits have been removed from the appropriate records. This data is based on "starts" only.
- AL ERA+ is based on a 2001-2002 league ERA of 4.47. The NL is 4.23.
- Not park adjusted


OAKLAND - Hudson; Zito; Mulder
GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+
203   113   46 3.24   8.07   2.64   0.78   6.86   2.60   138   OAK

ATLANTA - Glavine; Maddux; Burkett (01); Millwood (02)
GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+
207   96   55 3.08   8.28   2.60   0.77   6.15   2.36   138   ATL

ARIZONA - Johnson; Schilling; Anderson (01); Helling (02)
GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+
191   102   45 3.19   7.78   1.95   1.12   9.90   5.07   133   ARI

SEATTLE - Garcia; Moyer; Sele (01); Pineiro (02)
GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+
196   95   42 3.49   8.25   2.20   1.01   5.71   2.59   128   SEA

NEW YORK YANKEES - Mussina; Clemens; Pettitte (01); Wells (02)
GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+
191   102   47 3.77   8.77   2.23   0.85   7.91   3.54   119   NYY

ANAHEIM - Ortiz; Washburn; Schoeneweis (01); Appier (02)
GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+
190   81   59 4.01   8.91   2.94   1.13   5.89   2.01   112   ANA

NEW YORK METS - Leiter; Trachsel; Appier (01); Astacio (02)
GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+
184   69   69 3.81   8.55   2.83   1.10   7.00   2.48   111   NYM


Decide what you will but I believe that Oakland as much right (if not more) to be considered the *Best Trio of Starters* over the past two seasons as anyone else.

--------

trevise
   25. fables of the deconstruction Posted: April 13, 2003 at 09:57 PM (#610361)
DAMN! That didn't turn out right.




Can we really say that they are the 'best' trio of starters or merely that they were
the best trio for the season last year?


Now that's the one I expected to get called on. And righly so. An ill-advised rhetorical
flourish. They might be the best trio but I did not really sit down and think about that
too closely.


As I think about it more closely, I think they still take it. Maddux, Glavine, Millwood
certainly could have laid claim to it the last couple years (esp. last year with Millwood
being good again). They Yankees obviously could contend for that title. In some sense,
Pedro, Lowe and anybody or Johnson, Schilling and anybody could have laid claim to it for
some time. Possibly Wood, Clement, Prior could claim it this year.


...But I'll agree that to say "there is no question" these are the best is an unwarranted
statement.







FWIW...

The seven pitching staffs with the best trio of starters over the 2001 and 2002 seasons:

- The 3 starters must have 90 cumulative starts each season. [Both Bos and Hou failed this requirement in 2001.]

- All teams have 2 starters the same over both seasons. Only Oakland has the same 3 over both years.

- All relief splits have been removed from the appropriate records. This data is based on "starts" only.

- AL ERA+ is based on a 2001-2002 league ERA of 4.47. The NL is 4.23.

- Not park adjusted.





OAKLAND - Hudson; Zito; Mulder

GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+

203   113   46 3.24   8.07   2.64   0.78   6.86   2.60   138   OAK



ATLANTA - Glavine; Maddux; Burkett (01); Millwood (02)

GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+

207   96   55 3.08   8.28   2.60   0.77   6.15   2.36   138   ATL



ARIZONA - Johnson; Schilling; Anderson (01); Helling (02)

GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+

191   102   45 3.19   7.78   1.95   1.12   9.90   5.07   133   ARI



SEATTLE - Garcia; Moyer; Sele (01); Pineiro (02)

GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+

196   95   42 3.49   8.25   2.20   1.01   5.71   2.59   128   SEA



NEW YORK YANKEES - Mussina; Clemens; Pettitte (01); Wells (02)

GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+

191   102   47 3.77   8.77   2.23   0.85   7.91   3.54   119   NYY



ANAHEIM - Ortiz; Washburn; Schoeneweis (01); Appier (02)

GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+

190   81   59 4.01   8.91   2.94   1.13   5.89   2.01   112   ANA



NEW YORK METS - Leiter; Trachsel; Appier (01); Astacio (02)

GS   W   L   ERA   H/9   BB/9   HR/9   K/9   K/BB   ERA+

184   69   69 3.81   8.55   2.83   1.10   7.00   2.48   111   NYM





Decide what you will but I believe that Oakland as much right (if not more) to be
consideredthe *Best Trio of Starters* over the past two seasons as anyone else.




--------

trevise

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