I think I am in for Monday.

Just you, or the family?

-- MWE

i urge a boycott of the olympics until china exerts pressure on sudan to stop the genocide in darfur. china refuses to intercede even though the sudanese government is killing people to get them off oil rich fields for oil that they're then selling to china. that's the problem in a nutshell.

Ok, #3. I'm not too peachy on the idea of China getting to host but leave this crap out of this. This isn't even an Olympic event MWE is talking about here. Hence it is in Durham, NC.. not China.

MWE, Dial, Der-K, BullPain, any other Triangulars...

Any of y'all ever been to a game at the Cary USA complex? its a pretty neat place.

i urge a boycott of the dbap event until crash davis exerts pressure on sudan to stop the genocide in darfur.

i urge a boycott of the olympics until china exerts pressure on sudan to stop the genocide in darfur. china refuses to intercede even though the sudanese government is killing people to get them off oil rich fields for oil that they're then selling to china. that's the problem in a nutshell.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think a boycott would really further this goal. If anything, I think it would probably make China more resistant to changing their policy, and I think it would be unfair to a lot of people who've worked really hard to compete at the Olympics.

Any of y'all ever been to a game at the Cary USA complex? its a pretty neat place.

I played in a game or two there. It's like playing golf at a great course; the field is other-wordly compared to most tracks you play on.

Is this at teh DBAP or at the USA complex?

Using Olympic athletes as political pawns has been tried before. On a political level, it didn't do anything. On a personal level for the athletes, it denied them the chance to compete at the highest and most visible level of their sports. Kind of like MLB pre-1947.

Mike,
How soon do you have to know?

Sadly, before the season I made plans to visit my parents that Saturday through Wednesday. The game this Friday is at the USA Complex since the Bulls are at home. Saturday-Monday is at the DBAP. I've heard plenty of tickets are still available. I think people will be able to sit together regardless of when you get tickets. Say hi to Rheal Cormier for me.

The USA Complex is bad ass. I saw UNC play FSU last year and the place was packed. It's a real hidden gem for the Triangle.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think a boycott would really further this goal. If anything, I think it would probably make China more resistant to changing their policy, and I think it would be unfair to a lot of people who've worked really hard to compete at the Olympics.

I was just over there, and if the US and a few other European countries decided to boycott the Olympics, there would be gigantic shitstorm. For one, they have invested a huge chuck of money in it, something like 40 billion, and are counting on a robust revenue stream to cover the costs. If Americans and a significant number of European tourists don't go, they lose a ton of money.

I wouldn't do it unless it's your intent to precipitate a major confrontation.

The games are at the DBAP - read the title of the entry :)

How soon do you have to know?

I'd like to know by Thursday. There are still lots of seats available, last I looked.

-- MWE

Ok, #3. I'm not too peachy on the idea of China getting to host but leave this crap out of this. This isn't even an Olympic event MWE is talking about here. Hence it is in Durham, NC.. not China.

i think the point of a boycott is that it's a moral stand. from my perspective, US participation in the olympics is tantamount to tacit if not explicit approval of china's policy in sudan. i'm not even mentioning china's civil rights abuses. china could very easily straighten out sudan as could the US.

I was just over there, and if the US and a few other European countries decided to boycott the Olympics, there would be gigantic shitstorm. For one, they have invested a huge chuck of money in it, something like 40 billion, and are counting on a robust revenue stream to cover the costs. If Americans and a significant number of European tourists don't go, they lose a ton of money.

I wouldn't do it unless it's your intent to precipitate a major confrontation.

are you serious? what's a shitstorm (no matter how big) compared to genocide perpetrated for the sole purpose of selling oil to the chinese? if you mean to imply that there would be war if the US and Europe pulled out, then I think you're willfully overstating your case to make a point. to put it as gently as possible, that statement sounds a lot like fearmongering.

The sentiment is in the right direction, but I'm not sure what boycotts are going to do. Basically, the battle for Africa is going to be 100 times worse than what's happening in the Middle East, more likely than not the next place of international conflict and the stain on the next generations' history.

last time i checked, the u.s. isn't doing a whole heck of a lot to stand up for what is being done in the Sudan, or any other African or Asian nation that systematically violates human rights (e.g., China, etc.). if you really want to be disgusted, just look at how women are treated in many of those countries. of course, women aren't oil, are they? (not posted by chris, but by his wife)

last time i checked, the u.s. isn't doing a whole heck of a lot to stand up for what is being done in the Sudan, or any other African or Asian nation that systematically violates human rights (e.g., China, etc.). if you really want to be disgusted, just look at how women are treated in many of those countries. of course, women aren't oil, are they? (not posted by chris, but by his wife)

no doubt. but i think first priority is to stop the mass murder of a people for oil, don't you agree?

and, i also want the US to do something. i've written the president and my congress people, told everyone i know.

i also want the US to do something.

Why should the US, as an entity, care? I can understand why individual people should care, but I've never understood why a country - even one as big as the US - should care about what's going on in another country until and unless its own ability to survive is being affected. The US has no moral grounds for complaining about genocide, anyway, when you look at our own history.

-- MWE

The US has no moral grounds for complaining about genocide, anyway, when you look at our own history.

we can always change and we should change. i don't really care about hypocrisy. what i really care about is that the killing stops. now and for the future.

Why should the US, as an entity, care?

you can't be serious. this is an indefensible position because it assumes that: 1) a "country" is not identical with its people and 2) the "country's" desires are not at all related to the desires of its citizens. you probably mean "nation," but i rather get the sense that you mean country in the abstract sense, something that exists without reference to the real world. if that's our definition, then sure, a "country" shouldn't care about anything but itself. but such a country can't exist as a little self-contained cosmos. if you want to talk about "ability to survive" (ugh): a nation like the US does have interests in promoting stability in africa, if for no other reason than it makes investors nervous, makes the price of oil go up, etc. our economy runs on oil. ergo, our ability to survive is affected. (this argument is a bit over the top, but "survive" is a term open to interpretation.)

as a citizen of the nation, i desire that my government (of the people, by the people, for the people) should intercede in genocide. it's not a ridiculous position and it's a problem that could be stopped very quickly. we're wasting billions on a war on terror that has produced almost no results (in terms of terrorists apprehended), administering two foreign governments in addition to our own, and we can't take the time or be bothered to stop the mass murder of a people in an out of the way african nation because it offends an important business partner. we just gave $250 million to pakistan to upgrade its f-16s to look for osama bin laden for christ's sake. totally unnecessary.

You know, it really is too bad someone can't invite some other fans to a baseball game without some numbskull needing to get his political jollies off at the same time.
The funniest part about this whole ridiculous digression is that.. THIS IS NOT EVEN AN OLYMPIC EVENT that is going on in Durham tonight. The IOC won't be getting a cent of ticket money, and they didn't plan this either.

This is simply two Olympic baseball teams playing an exhibition with each other. That is all it is. That is why this is in Durham, NC... not Beijing.

Come on people.

Guys, I just want you all to know Davey Johnson just called me, personally, and told me to order my tickets now by pressing one.


OK, so it was just a pre-recorded phone message..

Why should the US, as an entity, care? I can understand why individual people should care, but I've never understood why a country - even one as big as the US - should care about what's going on in another country until and unless its own ability to survive is being affected. The US has no moral grounds for complaining about genocide, anyway, when you look at our own history.

I don't agree about boycotting the olympics, but this is a bizarre comment.

Come on people.

i'm boycotting anything having to do with the olympics, including shopping at staples, mcdonalds, and buying coca cola products. (they're all official sponsors.) i'm not saying you have to do the same as me, and believe me, i'm not getting my jollies off. i'm just trying to spread the word. you don't have to read what i write or respond to it if you don't want to. i'm not trying to make you feel guilty about going to a game or about supporting the olympics. all i want to do is make people aware of what's going on in darfur and why i feel it's important to make a statement and take a stand. i think of silence as tacit consent. and so i won't be silent. but i'm also trying NOT to be obnoxious.

as a citizen of the nation, i desire that my government (of the people, by the people, for the people) should intercede in genocide. it's not a ridiculous position and it's a problem that could be stopped very quickly. we're wasting billions on a war on terror that has produced almost no results (in terms of terrorists apprehended), administering two foreign governments in addition to our own, and we can't take the time or be bothered to stop the mass murder of a people in an out of the way african nation because it offends an important business partner. we just gave $250 million to pakistan to upgrade its f-16s to look for osama bin laden for christ's sake. totally unnecessary.

So then, your position is we should only be involved in some civil wars in majority-Muslim countries that we have no business being in?

My position is that the US should not intercede in the affairs of "any" other sovereign nation. It's not that I don't care, as an individual human being, about what's happening in Darfur - I just believe it's none of our country's business how another sovereign nation chooses to conduct its affairs.

-- MWE

My position is that the US should not intercede in the affairs of "any" other sovereign nation. It's not that I don't care, as an individual human being, about what's happening in Darfur - I just believe it's none of our country's business how another sovereign nation chooses to conduct its affairs.

-- MWE

You and Pat Buchanan.

So then, your position is we should only be involved in some civil wars in majority-Muslim countries that we have no business being in?

That's cute, but there's no point in trying to apply some sort of bright line test. We should get involved if our involvement (a) will benefit us, (b) will help the situation and (c) won't be too large a drain on our resources. IOW, if the benefits outweigh the costs. The benefits might be very immediate and concrete, or they might be more nebulous (e.g., keeping a region stable and peaceful might be good for the world economy or might improve our standing in that part of the world). Deciding which situations meet that test requires a lot of intelligence (both the mental and military kinds) and very good judgment, things that the current admin. is obviously lacking.

Not to mention that Afghanistan and Iraq are demonstrating, again, that we don't have the capacity to simply stop what is going on in Darfur. Unless you advocate a massive invasion/occupation and colonization, you're stuck. Whether you think a nation/country/entity such as the US should be involved or not, it doesn't work that way.


Mike, sorry I just saw this thread. I was out camping until Sunday so I assume that I missed this. I hope you guys had fun.

bunyon,
The games are 1-4 August. Friday is at the Cary Complex, Saturday through Monday at the DBAP. You ain't missed nothin' yet.

So then, your position is we should only be involved in some civil wars in majority-Muslim countries that we have no business being in?

we got involved in genocide in germany and other places. i don't discriminate on where i want killing stopped. there is no genocide in iraq or afghanistan.

and why are you calling it a civil war? if you want a "conservative" take on it, look to the economist which calls what's happening there genocide (as the US and International Criminal Court have done).

My position is that the US should not intercede in the affairs of "any" other sovereign nation.

we should stop genocide in darfur BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. i can't believe that you're arguing about interfering with sovereign nations as if there ever was such a thing EXCEPT on paper. 300,000 people have died in darfur in just a few years, with more than a million displaced. all for oil. who cares about the sovereignty of a nation that will kill its own citizens? its citizens cannot stand up to this government because it's a third world country with extreme poverty in the south and untold riches in khartoum.

sovereignty is the luxury of a nation whose people are not being murdered by their own government.

I'm likely for Monday - I'll confirm tomorrow...

bunyon,
The games are 1-4 August. Friday is at the Cary Complex, Saturday through Monday at the DBAP. You ain't missed nothin' yet.

Intriguing. Let me check our plans (i.e. ask the missus) and I'll let you know - can tickets still be purchased?

My position is that the US should not intercede in the affairs of "any" other sovereign nation. It's not that I don't care, as an individual human being, about what's happening in Darfur - I just believe it's none of our country's business how another sovereign nation chooses to conduct its affairs.

Don't violate the Prime Directive, eh?

I'm on for Monday.

bunyon:

Yes, tickets are plentiful for both Sun and Mon. I'm out there Friday and I'll buy then.

So we have Dial, Der-K, me for Monday, right?

-- MWE

i am in

Hey guys, I had the great pleasure of watching the Olympic team take its first practice, yesterday afternoon at Steve Schott Stadium in Santa Clara. Really a whole lot of fun.

Hope you have a ball.

Hang on...they're playing CANADA? Is there a run-rule? :)


I'm in Mike. Mary is travelling so I'm free to roam. Where/when shall we meetup? Thanks.

Where/when shall we meetup?

Anyone have a problem with 6:30 outside the main gate? I can leave tickets at Will Call if that's an issue for anyone.

Dial, are you bringing the family or is it just your not-so-humble self?

-- MWE

Sounds good to me.

Mike,
Watch this space later tonight. I will let you know if I need tickets. Thanks.

Mike, we can't make it. Sorry for the late notification.

OK, we're covered for Monday night. Four in Section 208.

-- MWE

Excellent. Thanks, Mike. See you all at 6:30.

Just me. See you at 6:30. I will be wearing a Mets cap.

I sent everyone my cell phone #; ping me if you didn't get it.

-- MWE