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Notes in a Minor Key
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Monday, November 14, 2005

Open Mike: What Do You Want to See Here?

As you may have figured out, this section of the site is intended for discussion of minor league baseball and the prospects therein. I’ll be posting original material here (in-season), links to other sites such as John Sickels’s stuff, Baseball America, MILB.com, and team-specific sites. I’ll also post links to articles from local journals that discuss their minor league teams - the Tennessean, for example, does a pretty good job of covering the Nashville Sounds, and they often have articles of interest. I will post features relating to the independent leagues, too, although they tend to be less well covered even by the local newspapers. I’ll post interesting things sent to me by readers - including original material, properly credited, if you have any - reviews of games you’ve seen, prospect commentaries, etc.

One person suggested on the omnibus site redesign thread that it might be a good idea to rename this blog, and I’m open to ideas others have - as well as any other ways in which we can make this section both interesting and valuable to the site and its readers.

Mike Emeigh Posted: November 14, 2005 at 01:15 PM | 36 comment(s)
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   1. WTM Posted: November 14, 2005 at 03:00 PM (#1731332)
Why rename it? The name seems to convey the content accurately. Did somebody think it was for classical music reviews?

If you could find some way to get people who see a lot of minor league games to post their observations of the players, that'd be interesting, at least to me. It might lend itself better to reading than to reader comments, though, so it may not be such a great idea.
   2. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 14, 2005 at 03:04 PM (#1731340)
Two other things I might like to see:

1) Coverage of foreign leagues, unless TPTB are planning on constructing another section of the site for that.
2) Sporadic threads for discussion about individual players, similar to what Sickels is doing on his blog. For a link, you could use a team site's player page or a stat page from BA.
   3. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: November 14, 2005 at 03:08 PM (#1731347)
I like the name as-is.

Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing, if someone out there is doing it, are links to MLEs at various points throughout the season. I know Rallymonkey does some, and I guess Szym does as part of his whole ZiPS enterprise. But most of us are in the dark on MLEs until the new BPro book comes out in four months.
   4. DCA Posted: November 14, 2005 at 03:31 PM (#1731400)
Links to every top prospect list you come across, even the crappy ones. They're neat, and they stimulate discussion. Also, any good in depth analysis of a team farm system, those like to evolve into a nice discussion of one or two players.

I second the foreign leagues suggestion, but relevance to former/future MLB players is key. It would be nice to know how Tony Batista turned out. Anyone know?

I would suggest that if discussion really gets going on a prospect somewhere else on the site, particulary a non-consensus-top-10 prospect, you could set up a thread here for that player. I prefer organic selection of players to talk about -- either through discussion elsewhere or "I just this guy at an AA game and he looked great" rather than solely by your own whim.
   5. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: November 14, 2005 at 03:52 PM (#1731463)
The name is fine as is. The site redesign led me to discover this corner of BTF even existed, so I'd says that's a plus right there.
   6. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: November 14, 2005 at 04:15 PM (#1731508)
I like the name, and this section is quickly becoming my favorite at BTF. Here are some suggestions/ideas:

[x] Interviews with David Cameron, Bryan Smith Sickels, BA guys, scouts, scouting directors, etc. It'd be really cool if we could submit some of those questions, but just getting some of those guys to participate would be excellent.

[x] As someone mentioned before, maybe some comments/scouting reports from people who have seen top prospects play.

[x] Rule 5/Amateur Draft previews.

[x] If you can find them, MNL splits. I know MLB keeps track of them, but I don't know if you or anyone else here knows how we can get our hands on them.

[x] Maybe you could post some threads in which fans would have a debate about which prospect is better. Like for example, Vlad could make a writeup about a top prospect from the Pirates organization, and Fabian would do a writeup on a Yankee farmhand that plays the same position and we get to decide who's better, et al.
   7. JoelW Iz in Ur Baseball Posted: November 14, 2005 at 05:14 PM (#1731648)
Studies about the actual value of prospects would be interesting as well. I know Philly at Sons of Sam Horn (and here of course, but the studies are there) has done studies analyzing the value of draft picks, which frankly were better than the ones done by BPro. In general though, things like the actual future value of prospects are rarely done, and I think this could be a good place to discuss this type of thing.
   8. rdfc Posted: November 14, 2005 at 05:35 PM (#1731701)
I'd change the name, Mike, though not because anybody likes it or dislikes it. I did not pick up what the blog was about when I first saw the name, and you want a title that 99% of folks will understand as soon as they see it. A change as simple as one to "Notes in a Minor League Key," would probably suffice, though I realize that sounds pretty bad.
   9. WTM Posted: November 14, 2005 at 05:49 PM (#1731724)
Well, you could just call it "Minor League Notes." It doesn't have to be clever, as long as it gets people here.
   10. Lefty, Monty, And The Moose (Walewander) Posted: November 14, 2005 at 06:00 PM (#1731740)
What about 'Minor Threats'?
   11. rembini06 Posted: November 14, 2005 at 07:29 PM (#1731898)
Some obvious discussion themes here are:

(1) Which pitchers and hitters are better than his stats and which are worse? Why are they better/worse? Are there ways to detect these players / are we just using the wrong stats?
(2) Defense. Which individuals have it and which don't? What do the bad defenders lack? This is something I can't find at Baseball Cube.
(3) Which skills evolve and which don't? (I get the feeling defensive range may be the hardest to improve.)
(4) What are the distributions of likely outcomes for prospects? How long does it take (or at what level) to be sure about a player? When projecting a player, what value does draft status have?
(5) How useful is a good farm system? How useful are good, but not great, prospects when building a contender?

Maybe some odes to organizational soldiers. Anything but prospects lists, as they seem like Hal Gurtner's Network Time-Killers to me.
   12. bunyon Posted: November 14, 2005 at 07:37 PM (#1731905)
I like the name. It is at least as informative as to content as any of the other sections.

If possible, perhaps you could put in one of those tabs that comes up when your cursor hovers over the name - what is that called? So, if my cursor is over "Notes in a Minor Key" in the sidebar, a tab would appear that told me it was an awesome collection of writing on the minor leagues. That might be good for all sections in the sidebar.
   13. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: November 15, 2005 at 11:03 AM (#1732434)
The current name is fine.
A lot of the below repeats what's above - that's what happens when you're late to the party....

Where should the Ammy draft, Rule 5 drafts, foreign leagues, amateur and international baseball be discussed?

Essays, studies, out the wazoo! After all, isn't this where can provide value, being "outside the forest" to borrow badly from an old Bill James analogy.

Having a set of links on the side that are specific to whatever areas might fall under this section would be great, be they to data (MLEs, park factors, etc...) or sites.

Meaning less than no disrespect to Sickels, his blog is getting overcovered at present. Even at this time of year, other people are doing interesting things.

Like greenback44 (was greenback43 taken?), I'm not into endless prospect lists, particularly since the maker has often been captured by another entity or lacks expertise.
   14. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: November 15, 2005 at 08:24 PM (#1733413)
But most of us are in the dark on MLEs until the new BPro book comes out in four months.

This would be great. Really, really great.

This has swiftly become one of my favorite parts of the site. If there was any content lacking on old Primer it was discussion of prospects so I'm glad to see a concerted effort to cull more articles.

Interviews would also be great but I understand that may not be the easiest thing to pull off. Many interviews are riddled with mundane questions and softballs so I would like to believe that an interview by Mike tailored to this crowd would be much more informative than something for Sportsline, etc.
   15. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: November 17, 2005 at 10:03 PM (#1736544)
I like the name too. can we have a convenient abbreviation though? :)
NoMike sounds good to me!

also prospective links posted in the dugout? I am so sad about how the Dugout is being phased out!
   16. Backlasher Posted: November 17, 2005 at 10:23 PM (#1736557)
The site redesign led me to discover this corner of BTF even existed, so I'd says that's a plus right there.


This corner is new.

including original material, properly credited, if you have any - reviews of games you’ve seen, prospect commentaries, etc.


What did you have in mind here Mike? I go to a number of Can-Am games during the season. Is there something that would suit your needs.
   17. The Politics of Torre: How the HOF Really Works Posted: November 17, 2005 at 10:47 PM (#1736568)
Maybe some odes to organizational soldiers.


I like that. They also serve. For example, there's Gary Burnham. Third generation player, none of whom made the bigs. He made it to AAA, but that's as far as he got before going to the Atlantic League. He could hit some when he was younger, but was never much of a fielder. There's probably better stories out there. I just happen to know the guy.

Another thing that might be neat is a look at some of the instructors, coaches and managers at the minor league level. Who are the good ones? Who were some of the good ones in the past?
   18. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: November 18, 2005 at 02:34 AM (#1736796)
Someone mentions this above, but I think college coverage might fit here, as well.
   19. Russ Posted: November 18, 2005 at 07:56 AM (#1736859)
Actually, I'd love to see people get together and put something out like Wilbur's Pirate organizational page. I don't want to post the link in case his site gets Primer'ed, but maybe you guys would be willing to host it for him? It's the only place I go for information during the season... you could even do something non-framey like at my Buccolinks page and include some links to the curent BA or MiLB stats for players. Wilbur, is that something you'd be interested in?
   20. Russ Posted: November 18, 2005 at 07:57 AM (#1736860)
Of course, the idea would be to have one page for each team... a wiki would maybe even be an unterrible idea where people could add their impressions as the season goes along and they see each player. Maybe it's getting to big now, but you did ask for ideas and I tend only to have big ones. :-\
   21. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: November 18, 2005 at 10:17 AM (#1736927)
Actually, I'd love to see people get together and put something out like Wilbur's Pirate organizational page.
I'd like this very much and, at one point, started to work on my own version - but 30 orgs is way too much for one guy to keep up with.

GGC, I remember Gary Burnham from back in his Clemson days and thought he'd probably make it back when he was with the Phillies' org.
   22. Mike Emeigh Posted: November 18, 2005 at 10:31 AM (#1736944)
Thanks, all!

I am keeping up with this conversation, and while I don't have a lot of time at the moment I will try to address some of the comments over the weekend. I did want to note that I like this:

Of course, the idea would be to have one page for each team... a wiki would maybe even be an unterrible idea where people could add their impressions as the season goes along and they see each player.

very much, although as Der Komminsk-sar noted, it's impossible for one person to keep up with 30 orgs, so it will have to be a community effort. I'll explore this with Jim after Thanksgiving.

-- MWE
   23. The Politics of Torre: How the HOF Really Works Posted: November 18, 2005 at 10:36 AM (#1736952)
GGC, I remember Gary Burnham from back in his Clemson days and thought he'd probably make it back when he was with the Phillies' org.


Yeah, I work for his uncle. I've only seen him play a couple times.
   24. WTM Posted: November 18, 2005 at 10:38 AM (#1736953)
I don't know if hosting is really necessary, as I'm not paying anything for it now. If you could find somebody willing to do something like that for each team (a pipe dream, no doubt), you could link it from here. In a perfect universe, you could have a setup that would allow comments for each player from people who've seen them, sort of an open-ended scouting report. (I think at one time I had an offer up on the site to add people's comments, but nobody ever sent any to me.)

One person keeping up with 30 orgs would be, uh, frightening. Trust me, even one isn't easy. If John Perrotto hadn't offered to get info for me directly from the Pirates, I couldn't do it now. It's practically impossible to find more than sporadic reporting of minor league transactions, thanks to MLB's takeover of minorleaguebaseball.com. They're also starting to run more and more of the individual team sites, and are uniformly making them crappier. MLB Advanced Media makes me think of the sickly red growth that covered everything in War of the Worlds. I'd like to see it suffer the same fate.
   25. WTM Posted: November 18, 2005 at 01:34 PM (#1737264)
I meant to add that I liked the reference to organizational guys. I have to agree with Bill James that it's a shame the minors aren't appreciated more in their own right, instead of just as feeders for MLB. Most of the guys playing in the minors have no chance of ever appearing in a major league uniform, but they're still out there. I'm guessing/hoping that Mike has at least some interest in pushing that point of view here. I think it's worth trying.
   26. Bmore Boy (Thailand edition) Posted: November 18, 2005 at 02:58 PM (#1737407)
I like the foreign leagues idea, both because it makes sense and for selfish reasons - I'm a writer living in Japan, so I'd love the opportunity to get more involved.
   27. Russ Posted: November 18, 2005 at 08:22 PM (#1738018)
I definitely suggested the various Wilbur type pages as a community effort. The big problem, of course, is that some teams are overrepresented on this site and some are severely underrepresented, so we might have some gaps early on. However, having those types of pages for even 10-15 people.

The Wiki idea, of course, is good in that people can maintain the various pages to whatever extent they want. No one person has to be completely responsible, unless people are idiotic. If you notice that someone got traded/released, you check to see if that's been updated on the Wiki...

The only real problem with Wiki's that I've seen is information quality control. But I'd actually even settle for BAD first hand information on a prospect that is rumoured to be traded than no first hand information at all (so quality control isn't an issue right off the bat).
   28. Mike Emeigh Posted: November 18, 2005 at 10:06 PM (#1738114)
Most of the guys playing in the minors have no chance of ever appearing in a major league uniform, but they're still out there. I'm guessing/hoping that Mike has at least some interest in pushing that point of view here.

Yes.

One of the best moments in Carolina Mudcats' history was the 2003 Southern League championship. The Mudcats rode Miguel Cabrera into the first half championship, but by the time they got to the postseason he was long gone, and the team didn't have a single decent prospect playing. But they managed to beat Tennessee and Huntsville (which had JJ Hardy, Corey Hart, Dave Krynzel, and Ben Hendrickson) for the title, and it was mostly organizational soldiers who carried the load. The classic soldier on that team was lefty reliever Sean Fesh, who was 28, had been in OB for 10 years, and had never won a title of any sort in his career. Fesh is the kind of guy who doesn't quite have major league ability, but has enough to get AA hitters out and fits in well with whatever he's asked to do; he's just happy to play.

-- MWE
   29. Mike Emeigh Posted: November 18, 2005 at 10:10 PM (#1738119)
This is as good a place as any to post this (for guys who have sent me stuff recently):

I have a batch of minor league hirings to post, which I'll get around to doing sometime this weekend. I wanted to combine most of those into a couple of threads rather than having a lot of little threads saying that Jeff Blauser, for example, was hired to manage at Mississippi.

-- MWE
   30. The New Gloucester Whaler Posted: November 18, 2005 at 10:28 PM (#1738134)
I was really hoping for some good Tchaikovsy's Sixth Symphony discussion. Dang.

Is that somewhere else on the site? I'm so confused since the redesign.
   31. The New Gloucester Whaler Posted: November 18, 2005 at 10:31 PM (#1738140)
But seriously, I'm really enjoying the stuff you are putting in this area. Thanks.
   32. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: November 19, 2005 at 12:52 AM (#1738233)
One person keeping up with 30 orgs would be, uh, frightening.
I don't know what I was thinking - suffice it to say, I didn't get very far.
   33. WTM Posted: November 19, 2005 at 01:25 AM (#1738266)
Mike,

Do you recall the 2002 Lynchburg team? It had an amazing number of guys, for a class A team, who reached the majors or still have a chance--Jose Castillo, Sean Burnett, DJ Carrasco, Chris Duffy, Nate McLouth, Ron Paulino, among others. But when they won the league title, the playoff MVP--as a result of hitting the game-winning HR in the final game--was Matt Meath, an org. fill-in who's spent five years in the low minors, getting assigned to whatever team has a few injuries and seldom getting more than a handful of ABs. That was his only HR that year.
   34. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: November 21, 2005 at 12:12 AM (#1740189)
Aww this is off the sidebar now!
and I can't find the dugout again. argh i dont know if i am retarded, but i am definitely pissed!
   35. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 21, 2005 at 12:48 AM (#1740232)
09:28 PM (#1738134)
I was really hoping for some good Tchaikovsy's Sixth Symphony discussion. Dang.

Is that somewhere else on the site? I'm so confused since the redesign.



Roger Norrington Posted: November 20, 2005 at 11:58 PM (#1740266)
It's a trap!
   36. The Hop-Clop Goes On (psa1) Posted: November 21, 2005 at 01:03 AM (#1740249)
i dont know if i am retarded, but i am definitely pissed!

This is a classic movie quote waiting to happen.

Sorry to mini-hijack a very nice and useful thread, but...I think I'll be using this one frequently.
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