Rule 5 Draft (DISCUSSION THREAD)
It used to be that the clock started when the player signed his contract - so a player who signed before the Rule 5 draft in the year in which he was drafted would lose that year even if he didn’t play in the minors that season. Now, the clock starts beginning with the player’s first minor league season - so a player who signed in 2003 but didn’t play until 2004 would have his eligibility counted beginning with the 2004 Rule 5 draft instead of the 2003 draft. The age limit is still based on the date when the player signs, though. There aren’t a lot of players for whom this matters; a couple of guys about whom I do have questions are marked, usually because I can’t find out whether or not they played in the DSL or VSL before their debut in the US minors.
I’ve got some lists of eligibles here. These aren’t close to being complete, and I really don’t want to list everyone that’s eligible, merely those who might be interesting to someone.
Arizona: P Adam Bass, 1B Javier Brito, SS Derek Bruce, 3B/C Jamie D’Antona, P Esmerling Vasquez.
Atlanta: P Devin Anderson, P Paul Bush, 3B Josh Burrus, OF Matt Esquivel, 1B James Jurries, OF Carl Loadenthal, 3B Wes Timmons, P Sean White
Baltimore: P Beau Hale, P Nick McCurdy. Almost every remotely useful player in the organization that was Rule 5 eligible was added to the roster.
Boston: P Abe Alvarez, 1B Ian Bladergroen, OF Chris Durbin, P Barry Hertzler, P Chris Smith, OF Luis Soto, 3B Chad Spann, SS Iggy Suarez, P Jose Vaquedano, 1B Jeremy West, P Charlie Zink (I only put him here because he’s a knuckleballer)
Chicago Cubs: P Bobby Brownlie, INF Mike Fontenot, C Jake Fox, INF Richard Lewis, 3B Casey McGehee, P Billy Petrick, P Andy Shipman, OF Jesus Valdez, P Randy Wells, P Jesus Yepez
Chicago White Sox: P Demetrius Banks, OF David Cook, OF Chris Kelly, OF Ricardo Nanita, P Dwayne Pollok
Cincinnati: OF Jay Garthwaite, P Carlos Guevara, P Blake Hendley, OF Javon Moran, P Brock Till, P Camilo Vazquez
Cleveland: P Bear Bay, P Matt Davis, P Dan Denham, P Jake Dittler, OF Ryan Goleski, OF Ryan Mulhern, P Nick Pesco, P Reid Santos
Colorado: P Alberto Arias, P Scott Beerer, OF Chris Colonel, OF Jordan Czarniecki, OF Joe Gaetti, P Ching-Lung Lo, P Tomas Santiago, INF Jose Valdez.
Detroit: P Corey Hamman, P Chris Homer, 1B Kelly Hunt, P Cristhian Martinez, INF Nick McIntyre, P Anthony Tomey, P Sendy Vasquez
Florida: P Allen Baxter, 1B/OF Ryan Bear, P Adam Brandenburg, OF Jose Campusano, OF Alejandro DeAza, SS Jonathan Fulton, P David Humen, P Jason Iehl, 3B Lee Mitchell, INF Kevin Randel, P James Russ, P Ross Wolf
Houston: P Raymar Diaz, P Chance Douglass, P Jared Gothreaux, INF Edwin Maysonet, P Mark McLemore, 3B Mark Saccomanno
Kansas City: P Greg Atencio, INF Mike Aviles, C Adam Donachie, P John Gragg, P Nate Hoelscher, 1B Kila Ka’aihue, SS Adam Keim, P Jarod Plummer
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim: P Kevin Jepsen, SS Adam Pavkovich, OF Aaron Peel, 2B Eric Rodland, P Rich Thompson
Los Angeles Dodgers: INF Sergio Garcia, P B.J. LaMura, P Danny Muegge, P Alvis Ojeda (I assume he played in the VSL)
Milwaukee: P Khalid Ballouli, P Steve Bray, P Jeff Housman, 1B/OF Brad Nelson, P Mitch Stetter, P Alec Zumwalt
Minnesota: P Kevin Cameron, OF Doug Deeds, OF Garrett Guzman, P Justin Jones, P Justin Olson, P Levale Speigner
New York Mets: 3B Jay Caligiuri, OF Corey Coles, C Jesus Flores, SS Chase Lambin, P Ivan Maldonado, OF Bobby Malek, P Jose Sanchez
New York Yankees: OF Matt Carson, P Phil Coke, P Michael Gardner, P Elvys Quezada, P Edwar Ramirez, P Paul Thorp
Oakland: 1B Brant Colamarino, SS Eduardo Cornejo, P Shawn Kohn, P Brad Knox, SS John McCurdy, 1B/OF Jason Perry, 3B Vasili Spanos, OF Brian Stavisky, P Brad Ziegler
Philadelphia: OF Brian Burgamy, P Brian Mazone, 2B Tim Moss
Pittsburgh: OF Adam Boeve, 1B Michael Carlin, OF Pedro Powell, P Wardell Starling
St. Louis: 3B Matt Dryer, P Jose Garcia, INF Juan Lucena, P Mark Michael, SS John Nelson, P Brian Stitt
San Diego: 1B Tim Brown, P Dirk Hayhurst, P John Hudgins, OF Kennard Jones, C Colt Morton, P Jose Oyervidez, OF Vince Sinisi, P Dale Thayer
San Francisco: P Chris Begg, 3B Brian Buscher, P Jesse Floyd, P James Garcia, P Matt Palmer
Seattle: 3B Hunter Brown, P Travis Chick, P Renee Cortez, P Craig James, OF Jon Nelson, OF Josh Womack
Tampa: P Brian Henderson, C/1B John Jaso, 1B Gabriel Martinez, P Evan Meek, P Mike Prochaska, P Brett Wayne
Texas: SS Casey Benjamin, C Emerson Frostad, OF Jake Blalock, P Matt Farnum, 1B Nate Gold, P Jose Marte, OF Anthony Webster
Toronto: P Danny Core, P Jordan DeJong, P Kurt Isenberg, OF Dustin Majewski, OF David Smith, P Jamie Vermilyea (who was taken by the Red Sox a year ago in Rule 5, then returned)
Washington: 1B/C Luke Montz, P Devin Perrin, 3B Brandon Powell, 1B Josh Whitesell
Mike Emeigh
Posted: December 01, 2006 at 09:58 PM |
105 comment(s)
Related News:
Minor Leagues,
Prospect Reports
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
The White sox should grab Zink. They'd get a baseball-wide monopoly on Charlie-based knuckleballers.
In terms of mystique that's just behind the Cubs stranglehold on middle infielders who can't hit.
It might also be that Hendry still has no idea how to manage the roster, and has to let go of quality prospects.
They did sign some minor-league free agents that would be useful and eligible - Josh Phelps and J.R. House most notably.
Ah, the Blade. That had been based on his fine 2004 season at Cap City (.342/.397/.595) in the S. Atlantic League. Then he hurt his wrist, IIRC, and hasn't been the same since. Or maybe he just wasn't ever really that good. But it was a nice season . . . .
As Alan said, it was still a pretty stupid thing to do as Blade had put up a 1000 OPS at 21 in low A. Unfortunately, an injury the next year with the Sox really screwed up his development.
I wouldn't give up on him yet, but obviously he's not ready for the majors and so is not a potential Rule 5 pickup.
Actually the wrist injury was suffered while with the Mets and ended his supposed breakout year. He hasn't been healthy with the Sox.
It's unlikely that a player signed as a six-year MiLFA would go in rule 5 - not unheard of, mind you, but if a team really wanted such a player they would probably have tried to sign him themselves, maybe even to fill a 40-man slot.
-- MWE
If my memory serves me correctly, last year the Royals signed Santos and Bernero as MiLFAs and got claimed in the rule v draft..
If my memory serves me correctly, last year the Royals signed Santos and Bernero as MiLFAs and got claimed in the rule v draft..
It was Santos and Seth Etherton. Etherton was returned and Santos was offered but the Royals refused.
Eligible Royals of note:
IF Fernando Cortez - great glove, no stick utility IF, part of the Gathright-Howell trade
P John Gragg
OF Adam Greenburg - former Cubs prospect
IF Adam Keim
IF Mario Lisson
P Devon Lowery
P Jarrod Plummer - good live arm, former Dodgers prospect
1B Mike Stodolka - former 1st round pitcher converted to 1B and raked last year in Cali League
C Matt Tupman - lotsa walks, but age 27
P Brandon Weeden - former Dodger/Yankee prospect taken in minor league Rule 5 last year
P Matt Wright - former Braves prospect
I can't really see any of these guys being taken. Maybe Cortez if someone wants a good glove man off the bench. Plummer has a good arm and is young, but he'd have to be hidden away in the bullpen. Tupman would probably make a pretty decent backup catcher and I think he should be protected over Paul Phillips.
Only Dave Littlefield would use the Rule 5 draft to acquire a 29-year-old marginal fifth starter.
D'Antona would be an interesting choice for someone who wants to continue the catching experiment (which I don't personally think will take, but you never know).
Campusano and DeAza are interesting possibilities for someone. Both can fly, and can hit singles and the occasional gapper every now and again. They probably wouldn't be hurt development-wise, since both are fifth OF prospects anyway; if you need some speed in the OF...
The CBA change probably got some guys on rosters who would be in Rule 5 otherwise. I doubt Jonathan Johnson is added by the Braves if they had to put Saltalamacchia on, for one, and the Royals would have had to put Lubanski on, which probably would have impacted Musser or Rosa.
-- MWE
He won't get picked, but Jack Hannahan (DET) could play a role on the right team. Lefty with a plus (maybe plus-plus) glove at third, who can play a little at second while doing an okay job of getting on base.
A name to remember from the Mets is Jesus Flores (though as a catcher, he's unlikely to go). He's younger than Fox and has a better glove (though worse plate disicpline).
He didn't do much before the breakout either. He was pretty much a flier.
And if anyone is wondering what MiLFA is, it's Minor League Free Agent. Just so you don't have to google it.
I could see Plummer potentially getting picked - you could hide him in the back of a pen.
It's happened a lot more lately - Chris Gomez and some Royals most recently. Adrian Brown, too.
Fixed that one. I'd read an article in early November that said he was a likely Rule 5 candidate, and didn't bother to check the roster.
-- MWE
He got most of his playing time at DH - that's probably all that you need to know.
-- MWE
I would guess yes. Teams generally aren't looking for someone with raw defensive skills in a backup catcher, and he's no guarantee to hit. Hendry probably thinks someone would be more likely to take Jose Reyes, and he's probably right.
* I don't think Dillard (Mil) is eligible (link).
* I think the guy with the best chance to go on the A's (unless Brad Knox has made sudden improvements I'm not aware of) is SS/2B Gregorio Petit (plays several spots, good defensive rep, some speed, some potential with the bat). Also, FWIW, I think Ziegler is working on becoming a submariner.
Apparently he's just not that good. He's always been old for his league and the scouts have always said he didn't really have that much power. It appears they were right.
Hey, he's a St Paul guy, and the Twins love the local kids. I really think that they could use another option at 3rd base and a Hannahan/Punto platoon might be quite productive. I just really don't want to have to count on Punto all season at third. It's not like there are many other lefty 3rd basemen around worth picking up. I'm officially on the Hannahan bandwagon now.
Dillard was 18 when he was drafted, but 19 when he signed, and I thought that because he was 19 when he actually signed the contract that the four-year limit would apply to him. However, I've seen a couple of references (several years old) to the age being determined as of June 5 prior to the signing of the contract. Dillard signed on May 27, 2003 - so since he was still 18 on June 5, 2002, if that's still the rule then he is not eligible.
-- MWE
The Twins Doug Deeds could stick at the end of some teams bench in my opinion. A corner OF with a little pop and good on base skills.
On the Hannahan note; I'm hoping the rumours of Rincon being talked about with Houston are in some kind of deal for Ensberg.
-- MWE
Yep. The site I had listed him as a 1B for some reason.
-- MWE
Jaso: Not much chance, IMO.
I think Tingler was released by Texas and I'm not aware of Carlson (MiLFA) having reupped.
However, I've seen a couple of references (several years old) to the age being determined as of June 5 prior to the signing of the contract.
I think (but don't know) that that rule is still in effect.
Another guy who signed as an undrafted free agent is RHP Lee Gronkiewicz (TOR) - he throws strikes and gets out with offspeed stuff.
Deeds is decent, but how is his glove? I see he mostly played 1B last year.
I thought it was a parous woman you want to do naughty things to.
That scout.com link does mention a few more interesting players not listed here (Anthony Webster, Plummer, Ryan Raburn, and Jon Bateman among others). Raburn has a pretty good bat, but a lousy glove (he's a LF/2B) - he could help some teams but I don't see him being selected.
Spann is still a 3B - you can disregard the positions for several of the players above. He'd make my list of top 10 options, I think.
-- MWE
-- MWE
He's the ****, as they say.
soxprospects.com and the Cards scout.com site list who is eligible for each phase of the draft for their respective orgs.
I hadn't really given him much thought, but Wes Timmons does a nice job of getting on base, plays a decent third (I think this year's weak range numbers were fluky), and can fill in at second and short in a pinch. It would help if he had more power, speed, or something, but he could totally fit in as a second extra infielder. That said, he probably lacks the ceiling to merit selection.
Holy crap! Doug Deeds is in the pros? He stayed at my apartment for a week or two as a freshman at OSU. My roomates even hazed him a bit. I had no idea he was drafted, let alone was having a productive minor league career. Good for him.
Supposedly Baseball America is coming out with their Rule 5 preview today and Rockies pitcher Pedro Strop high on the list. He's very raw though - converted shortstop who pitched for the first time last season.
Hmm, good call.
My scrip lapsed, like, yesterday. Any interesting bullets from there?
I suspect that most of the Rule 5 draftees will be MiLFAs this year, between the lack of squat available and the ridiculousness of the market at the moment. The hot stove hadn't really started yet when most of these guys signed, and their perceived values have probably gone up since they originally signed. I could see guys like Tike Redman, Jamal Strong and Darnell McDonald easily get taken, considering the shortage of CFs this year and the ridiculous price people are paying for them.
It's Edwar, not Edward. He's been going back and forth between independent ball and organized ball for the last couple of years. Basic fastball/slider pitcher, not much else. The Angels tried him as a starter, he couldn't cut it there, went to Pensacola and became a quality reliever.
-- MWE
Greenburg, Greenberg, Iceberg, same difference.
Mike, I hope you take my comments as constructive and not nit-picky prickiness. Thanks for your hard work in putting together this list.
milb.com mentioned that Vermilyea has some buzz, several sites have talked up Gronkiewicz's chances. Cubs are supposedly worried about Fontenot.
He has been every year since 04. In that draft, the Red Sox took him in the second go around. They gave him back a couple weeks into ST.
A lot of people say the Yanks are holding BEan back, but they have basically allowed him to go to any team that wanted to take a shot at him.
Actually, Bean was protected by the Yanks each of the last two years.
BA mentioning new names as top targets: Strop, Joakim Soria (low 90s fb, good winter ball season, solid summer seasons in Mexico as well), Goleski, Lincoln Holdzkom, Raburn, Nic Ungs, Douglass (I like him, one if the few guys in the draft I think could survive if necessary in a rotation), and loogy Jay Marshall.
First 7 clubs all made picks - Goleski to OAK, Soria to KCR, JOSH HAMILTON to the CUBS, ...
I know someone's going to be upset.
Seems like a decent low risk, high reward kind of thing. He's probably a better hitter right now than half of the crap we used off the bench last year. He does play second base, right?
Now that's just dumb...
I see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't make all the sense in the world for the Cubs to give Josh the 4th/5th OF job - and see if just maybe he makes his way back to what he might have been.
Josh Phelps is a nice pick by the Yanks... why someone doesn't live with the fact that he makes a perfect lefty masher that you can slot at 1B in case of injury is beyond me (fer chrissakes... the Cubs used HENRY F BLANCO at 1B in September!). I know he can't really catch anymore -- but a guy that makes a credible emergency catcher, I think has some value, too.... for those games a year when you might want to either PH or PR for your starting catcher - you can do so worryfree, no longer fearing the debacle should your sole other C on the roster get hurt in a freak injury.
Why guys like Phelps (or to a lesser degree, Jason Grabowksi among others) don't get the same guaranteed contracts utility drek like Ramon Martinez, Neifi, or the rest get just puzzles me to no end...
I was surprised Justin Jones was available in the AA phase. Wasn't he on the 40 man just a few weeks ago?
Jason Smith
Ed Campusano
Lincoln Holdzcum
and then in the AAA phase -
Richie Lewis
Andy Shipman
The Pirates once again show their mastery of how the Rule 5 works -- taking their own player with the 4th pick (Sean White). What a true joke of an organization. I honestly believe that the Bucs could just throw up daily open threads on BTF, let us kick ideas around, vote -- and STILL do a better job running the organization. I'm not making that comment in jest -- I really believe the Primate Collective, even without any sort of order or rank, but just open thread free-for-all, could outmaneuver Littlefield.
Justin Jones - former Cub and key cog in the Nomar deal - also got taken (Nats from the Twins)... Does this mean the Cubs actually won that trade if only by virtue of the Matt Murton throw-in?
BA has some unkind words about him ("...I have a feeling no one with the Twins will be sorry to see him go. He had not made a positive impression since coming over from the Cubs in the 2004 Nomar Garciaparra--Doug Mientkiewicz four-team deal.").
How the potentially mighty have in reality fallen.
Has anyone seen confirmation of the Hamilton sale? Maybe Jim Hnedry should check back into the hospital.
What was the thinking here? Was it an attempt to keep a player that maybe they forgot to protect? I can't believe that they'd be so ridiculously dumb, that they didn't realize he was in their system.
Has this ever happened before?
I should've realized that he was drafting for another team. Idiot.
Has this ever happened before?
I know I've seen teams do this before -- but usually, I think it happens in the 2nd/3rd round (where a team will try to slip a player through the Rule 5 1st round, then protect him in the 2nd).
I don't know that I've ever seen a team select its own player that high. Based on what I can tell, the Pirates had 4 spots open on their 40 man... so the ONLY way it makes any sense at all is if they were pining for Gorelski, Soria, and Hamilton, only to see them get taken with picks 1, 2, and 3.
Also, the pick was made so that he could be sold to another team, just like Matt Roney and Luis Ugueto in past years.
Nope. It was full-up as of this morning, and they released DeCaster to create a spot for the pick. If you don't believe me, check out the 40-man roster on MLB.com and count the players: Link.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main