I'm sorry, but how is 80 odd pitches a start a reason for concern?
Now taking 80 pitches to get through the 4th, why yes, that's a concern but of a different sort.

Tom had walked 102 guys in 269 career innings coming into the season so 15 BB in 17 IP is a bit of a concern.

The Pirates didn't employ the "Zach Duke Fixer-Upper" method did they?

I think the general consensus is that Gorzelanny is hurt and he is altering his mechanics to compensate. Which decreases his effectiveness and leads to his crappy start to the season.

In this case, I don't think we can blame the coaching staff - yet. While Colborn obviously made a mess with Zach Duke (although from what I know, the mechanical adjustments were minor, but implementing them and having Duke take hold of them proved to be very difficult), I don't know that Jeff Andrews (a Littlefield hire and holdover) has been responsible.

JVB is looking pretty good at Indy right now. The 17/10 K/BB ratio isn't the best, but 0 HR in 24 IP is a good sign and the BB rate is actually a bit of an improvement for him. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gorz go on the DL in the next week or so and JVB come up to take his place in the rotation.

Will Carroll has harped a couple of times on how the Pirates overworked Gorzelanny in September to get him a meaningless 15th win. The game logs at BR don't really reflect that notion. Can any Pirates fans enlighten me?

Gorzelanny complained of arm trouble in late august/ early sept. And then, this is what Tracy did to him.

Sep 2 : 4 ip, 105 pitches, L
Sep 7 : 7 ip, 118 pitches, W
Sep 12: 6.2 , 107 , W
Sep 18: 5 , 107, L
Sep 23: 5.2, 117, L
Sep 28: 6, 90 , L

Mid Sep in a lost season, when your top young pitcher complains of arm soreness, you don't keep running him out for 20+ pitch innings regularly.

Geez, that's what you do to someone when you see no more upside and just need innings to eat... not the second best pitcher in the organization...

From the headline, I thought this was going to be about the Rangers 19-6 loss in Detroit.

As a matter of comparison, the Rangers threw 210 pitches (105 for strikes! Whee!!!) in the first 7.2 innings of that game.

"you don't keep running him out for 20+ pitch innings regularly."

Not trying to argue here...is there now a pitch count conern as it relates to pitches in an inning, and not just over-all pitch count? is there evidence that a day of (pitches per inning; 10;10;30;10;10;15 worse than 15;15;15;15;15;15?

The idea being of amount of stress per pitch is higher, esp with runners on base when you are pitching from the stretch.

Not trying to argue here...is there now a pitch count conern as it relates to pitches in an inning, and not just over-all pitch count? is there evidence that a day of (pitches per inning; 10;10;30;10;10;15 worse than 15;15;15;15;15;15?

Evidently there is some concern about it, because some teams, including the Pirates, have per-inning pitch limits in the minors.

Bill James first pointed out 20 years ago that it's easy to demonstrate that pitchers begin to rapidly lose effectiveness after their 15th pitch of an inning. By the principle that pitching when tired -- not just pitching in general -- is destructive to arms, yes, long innings are a very important element in determining pitcher fatigue, in my opinion, and yes, 10-10-30-10-10-15 is generally worse than 15-15-15-15-15-15.

People that watch the Pirates more than I do can tell me whether I'm right or wrong about this, but it seems like Gorzelanny's been, the last year or so, throwing a lot of balls intentionally, trying to strike hitters out, and ringing up big pitch counts in the process. Whether that's because he's hurt and trying to compensate for his stuff being more hittable, I don't know.

I thought this was about a Daisuke-in-Japan anecdote.

People that watch the Pirates more than I do can tell me whether I'm right or wrong about this, but it seems like Gorzelanny's been, the last year or so, throwing a lot of balls intentionally, trying to strike hitters out, and ringing up big pitch counts in the process.

Quite possibly, but 22 walks in 22.1 innings is much more worrisome than nibbling. Even in his worst months last year he never had a walk rate even half as high as this. He pretty much has to be hurt, and if they don't get him checked out ASAP it's another piece of evidence that nothing's really changed for the Pirates.

I think all the Pirate pitchers would be wise to follow Ian Oquendo Snell and just ignore everything the organization tells you. All advice - [shampoo] them, I'm doing it my way.

If Gorzelanny's troubles are mechanical (like Morris - ha, yeah right) then the next question is why subject him or any pitcher to a constant beating. Then again, the Pirates are desperate - attendance is well down and the team is already doomed from the start. And with management standing pat the past off-season, I wonder if the word is to do what it takes to win - now.

Which means you leave your second best starter out there to struggle and run up high pitch counts with a lot effort. I can't forecast the mental damage, but the physical damage is probably a trip to Alabama in July.

I wonder if the word is to do what it takes to win - now.

If that's management's mandate, then management has no clue what's going on, because winning now is impossible short of a cholera plague or plane crash hitting the Cubs and Brewers. There's a thing called 'talent'. The Pirates don't have it.

I saw his second start this year, and he was pretty consistently missing the catcher's target. He just looks like he's pitching hurt.