Amusing, not a BFD.

Foist!

Well, Guy linked this inthe dugout and boy did Guy clear that place out. Good to see it get its own thread.

Michael Kay is such a douche.

Juan Rivera should not have stolen Shawn Jeter's stuff.

Kay is a dumbass, but these mistakes CAN (and do) happen to anybody, so let's not make mincemeat out of the guy for this fairly common mistake....

I think Kay is a very good announcer. I don't even think he is a dumbass.

BUt BTF group think says so, so let's pile on for a mistake that is analagous to that which anyone can and does make.

BUt BTF group think says so, so let's pile on for a mistake that is analagous to that which anyone can and does make.

OK, OR EVEN BETTER, LET'S SELF-AGGRANDIZE BY PORTRAYING OUR POSITION AS THE "CALM SENSE OF REASON AND MODERATION (TM)"!!!!!!!

OK, OR EVEN BETTER, LET'S SELF-AGGRANDIZE BY PORTRAYING OUR POSITION AS THE "CALM SENSE OF REASON AND MODERATION (TM)"!!!!!!!

that is at least a 3-way street (tm)

I think Kay is a very good announcer. I don't even think he is a dumbass.

To each his own. I think he's a terrible announcer. But I have no reason to believe he's a dumbass.

Murcer should have added a brief apology to Kay's.

And I waited all game for Kay to ask "When is that lefty 3B phenom...Casey Kotchman coming up?"

BUt BTF group think says so, so let's pile on for a mistake that is analagous to that which anyone can and does make.

Scoriano, that's a hell of a strawman. No one seems to be piling on either before or after your post.

But I agree with Sam, he is a bad announcer.

It's easy to get the facts mixed up, but no fewer than Kay, Murcer, the research assistant, the director, at least one producer and the technical audio guy are in charge of listening to Kay at all times.

I'm not a professional baseball guy, but I was yelling at my TV and if I had the phone number to the YES truck in Anaheim, I would have called it. The initial mistake is on Kay, but one of those other parties should have caught it after the first two or three sentences.

Shills of Kay, don't make it out like he just called Juan Rivera by the wrong name.

It's not that he made a mistake, it's that the mistake was made in the course of Kay the Vain so gleefully assuming the role of avenging knight-errant in the service of poor Derek Jeter's lost honor.

You are a vain and silly man, Michael Kay. And there's stuff dripping out the side of your mouth to boot. I dub thee, "dork."

Posted by Michael Kay on July 25, 2005 at 7:08 PM (#1496118)

Coming up at the plate is triple-crown challenger Derrek Lee. In the offseason, Lee likes to murder women in Louisiana.

Posted by Michael Kay on July 25, 2005 at 7:15 PM (#1513242)

I've just been informed that Derrek Lee and the Baton Rouge Serial Killer are actually two different people. My bad.

Is your basis for this anger at impinging on Jeter's first name (kind of), Dan, or is there some personal history between Kay and Lee?

If the Yankees ever call up Billy Hitler from AAA... boy, I just hope someone briefs Kay before the game

I don't think Michael Kay is a bad announcer, I'm just still bitter at him from when he was a Broncos tight end.

"I just got my Riveras all mixed up."

Juan Rivera, two Rivera, three Rivera, four...

Jeter does a great job of catching those deep flyballs to the shortstop using a stolen glove.
Phil Mushnick in the Post has a note how 84 year old Bell's Palsy afflicted Ralph Kiner is still sharp. One of the Mets broadcasters said Gary Sheffield has hit 40 HR with every team he has been with. Not with Milwaukee says Ralph.
I think Kay can do a good job of asking his jock broadcasters good questions about how the game is played. But sometimes he is lazy. Two years ago he admitted on his radio show that he does not read Sunday Sports sections in newspapers because he reads the papers for other things that day. Michael, isn't that your job?

It's not that he made a mistake

And this is a good point. Even if it was Ruben Rivera (that's the right Rivera, right?), why shame him (again)?

And apparently Primer group think has infected the NY Daily News which thinks this simple mistake is worthy of a story.

And let's see ... before post #5 we had the same poster in #1, Guy in #2 who apparently has long-standing issues with Mr. Kay not related to this incident, #3 makes a small joke by bringing up Shawn Jeter (while ignoring Johnny Jeter ... must be a wippersnapper) and #4 says that this is a mistake that anyone can make ... so #5 felt the need to jump in with a comment about Primer group thinkers jumping all over Kay's mistake.

Now Mr. Scoriano, if you would like to debate the merits of Mr. Kay with Mr. LeDouche, have right at it.

Oops the anecdote was about Sheffield being an All Star with every team. My bad. Do I get a job on the YES network?

It is a good thing Willie Horton no longer plays anymore.

It's good that he apologized, but mistakenly branding an innocent guy as a criminal is a pretty serious ######, and Kay and Murcer lose a bit of slack because the incident happened on the team that they cover on a regular basis. It's worse than Kruk being surprised about Mecir's club foot, where Kruk probably doesn't think about Tampa more than twice a year.

There's no point in beating him up over it right now, but he really needs to be more careful in the future.

Oh, yeah: RDF, Dan.

There's no point in beating him up over it right now, but he really needs to be more careful in the future.



But what about the sense of self-satisfaction we all get seeing Kay screw up this way? That's worth a lot.

It is to me. It's gold! Gold!

Let the Paul O'Neill/Paul O'Neill mix-ups commence!

The reason Drew Henson never panned out is because the guy was too into his Muppets.

Any humiliation Kay experiences is well earned. He's quick to condemn a guy for the unforgivable sin of what, offendinfg Jeter? If you're going to wax sanctimonious at least target the right guy.

The reason Drew Henson never panned out is because the guy was too into his Muppets.

This is tremendous.

Any humiliation Kay experiences is well earned. He's quick to condemn a guy for the unforgivable sin of what, offendinfg Jeter?

The guy stole Jeter's glove and tried to sell it. That's a little bit different from merely "offending" him.

(and yes, I know it was the wrong guy)

Somewhere I read that Kay is greasing the skids to run one of the current YES broadcasters out so that Sen. Al can have a gig when his career is over.

Is there any doubt that it's O'Neil?

It wasn't even Jeter's glove, it was Jeter's brother Mr. Noodle's glove.

Now friend Al they are up set about this announcer in NY he cannot keep strait who is the Rivera that steels peoples mitts and who is the Rivera who got run over by a gulf cart. Neither can I Al and it is not so bad for instance we have this announcer in Chi Al his name is Ken Harrelson you may have heard of him he was once SS for the Mets and beat up Pete Rose. Anyway the other day I was coming in to pitch and Harrelson Hawk we call him tells the folks at home this is Jack Keefe in relief for the Sox he was won 342 major league games and busted in with the Troy Haymakers back in Umpteen Eighty. No says the other announcer I think you have the wrong Keefe. Not a bit says Harrelson and this here Keefe is also a member of Coppers Town so it says in my Baseball Registrar. But I am not in Coppers Town yet they are only starting to do the Keltic List on me so any 1 can make a mistake Al you just have to live and learn as Ozzie Guillen says if I had a nickel for every time people think I am Jose Guillen I would have about ten cents today.

Meanwhile, Kay is silent about his hero Jeter's recent high school heroics. I don't know how he could have not noticed, unless it was in the paper on a Sunday.

I know who Jack Keefe is. Or at least have a wild guess.

Yes, Ring Lardner has risen from the dead and he reads blogs.

"these mistakes CAN (and do) happen to anybody, so let's not make mincemeat out of the guy for this fairly common mistake...."

this is a very different mistake from Kay bringing up the incident, for some reason, in a Tampa Bay game and accidentally calling the guy Juan Rivera. that is an easy mistake to make, calling someone by the wrong but similar name.

here, he is talking about a person who he covered for a couple years and is looking right at, and attributing the actions of an entirely different person to him. Ruben was a highly touted Yanks prospect. Juan was a Yanks regular for parts of a couple seasons. the glove stealing incident was a huge story in Yankee land. there is no way he should have confused them like this, it's really unbelievable, and i don't think it's a mistake that anyone could have made. that Murcer didn't catch it is just par for the course, he may be the dumbest man on the planet.

"Is there any doubt that it's O'Neil?"

i hope so. o'neill is terrible. announcers without a voice should write a book (to paraphrase Evidence).

It's not even so much misidentifying as player, it's the smugness and blowhardness that Kay announces with.
He could easily recall the situation, that it was Jeter's glove, the captain's glove FFS!, yet he can't tell his Juan's from his Ruben's?
They must all look the same to him. Like his maid.

I hate it when guys like Michael Kay and Albert Belle get one player confused with another one, almost as much as I hate it when guys like Juan Rivera and Albert Belle steal Shawn Jeter's stuff.

So, Geraldo, was the whole incident where you stole Jeter's glove the reason you're not on Fox any longer?

I'm with 37. I mean, how can a guy who is supposed to be some kind of expert on the Yankees make such a ######? I could see if they were Padres or something and he just misidentified them based on their last names, but he should have known a lot more about each of these guys than just their first and last names. Kay is truly, truly, truly an idiot.

Well...who could blame the guy...After years of smoking dope while touring with Steppenwolf, there is no way we can expect Michael Kay to keep all these players' names straight!

I agree that this is a pretty terrible mistake, and essentially inexcusable for someone who covers the team in question.

It betrays a terrible lack of preparation. I can see someone, entering the series, thinking "Rivera? Played for the Yankees? Is that the guy that stole the glove?" and then looking it up.

But it's obvious here that Kay never looked it up; he didn't prepare at all. He saw the name and thought he knew, and went out of his way to besmirch the guy. That's pretty terrible announcing, if you ask me, and not a very understandable mistake.

Still, Kay seems contrite about it, so that's something.

how can a guy who is supposed to be some kind of expert on the Yankees make such a ######?

When you talk professionally all the time, for thousands of hours a year, these things happen. I don't hold Kay any more responsible than I would hold Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore to his facts.

trying...not...to...cry...at...work....from... laughing...so...hard....

"When you talk professionally all the time, for thousands of hours a year, these things happen."

I agree. When I put my show together, there are always one or two little errors that sneak through.

This is a pretty ghastly error, though. If he'd just misidentified Juan Rivera as Ruben, I don't think anybody'd care. That's not what he did, though; he said that Juan Rivera was a sneak and a liar and a thief, and that he's got no place being in baseball.

When you're talking about something that serious, you've got to be really, REALLY sure that you know what you're talking about.

I can't listen to Mike and the Mad Dog.

Are they smacking Kay around?

he said that Juan Rivera was a sneak and a liar and a thief, and that he's got no place being in baseball.

I didn't hear him say this, by the way. I heard him essentially tell a Derek Jeter story starring Ruben Rivera.

He more or less factually reported that the Yankees released this guy after he stole Jeter's glove in spring training, and commented on the irony (but didn't use "ironically enough", which would have been proper in this situation) that Jeter would have simply given him a glove if asked.

"I just made a terrible mistake, Bobby," Kay said.

By the way, he said, "We just made... I just made a terrible mistake."

That indicates to me that he took responsibility for it. A non-issue in my opinion.

"I didn't hear him say this, by the way. I heard him essentially tell a Derek Jeter story starring Ruben Rivera.

He more or less factually reported that the Yankees released this guy after he stole Jeter's glove in spring training, and commented on the irony (but didn't use "ironically enough", which would have been proper in this situation) that Jeter would have simply given him a glove if asked."

I gotta disagree Erik. Kay got on his horse. He said something about first when they showed the Angels' defensive alignment. Then again when Rivera came to the plate. And when Rivera was up, he and Murcer talked all about how there are things that violate the rules of the clubhouse and how wrong JUAN Rivera was for doing it. Then Kay made the payback comment when Jeter turned the DP. They made the same mistake, repeatedly for two innings, and got all high and might about it. They essentially slandered the guy for 3 minutes (as well as before the game, and then, when Kay realized he was wrong, he offered an incredibly brief apology and explanation. Once would have been fine. To go on about it the way he did, and talk about how disgraceful the guy's actions were, and not get the name right, is, IMO, disgraceful. The fact that none of the fact checkers for the network noticed this until the third inning is even worse.

Who's worse: Michael Kay or Suzyn Waldman?

Either one of them makes me turn violent.

Kay should have his tongue cut. This is unforgivable.

#52-Susie's way worse. One can actually sense her major crush on the Jeter during her work.

I just experienced Hawk Harrelon's White Sox broadcasts for the first time, for a whole 2 games. He's so bad, he puts Kay into proper perspective for me. Makes him seem basically harmless.

Stupid question - but was that the real Bill Simmons that posts here???

I'd like his assistant to clarify for us please.

I didn't hear anything about the issue during the defensive alighment, and I didn't hear the payback comment.

I thought of it as Kay telling the story (again, more or less factually; or at least as factually as Kay is capable of being when Jeter's honor is at stake), and Murcer kind of half-hearing him and then blathering on interminably about "honor of the clubhouse blah blah blah".

I doubt anyone would steal the Bill Simmons identity AND write something reasonable, so I'm guessing that was/it the real Simmons.

I just experienced Hawk Harrelon's White Sox broadcasts for the first time, for a whole 2 games. He's so bad, he puts Kay into proper perspective for me. Makes him seem basically harmless.

I agree with that. They make 'em much, much worse than Kay.

I think the hatred for him stems primarily from Kay's journalist/editorialist persona, which is one of the most painful and pathetic Yankee homers in existence. In broadcast, he's ok, though he could use a crash course in what is and what is not a home run off the bat. It seems the problem described here is a case of the editorialist sneaking into the broadcast.

(I think people also mix him up with Sterling and Waldman, who are horrific.)

The Rangers announcers are also much worse than Kay.

I wrote a big thing for the RLYW last year, in which I more or less defended Kay as a broadcaster.

He has a good voice for it; he's very good at generating a believeable "excited" tone when he has to.

He is generally factually accurate (although he needs work on the fly balls, as Mikael intimates).

His reading on the air is really, really good. A listener can't really tell when he's doing so.

He seems to be a "gamer", certainly he's there almost every day.

Unlike other announcers, you can't tell by listening to him if the production staff is in his ear. The broadcasters have headsets; one side of which is all of the noise - crowd, sound effects, other announcers, etc. The other side is an IFB (interruptible feed back). Most of the time it sounds just like the other side, but when a producer has to talk to his talent, all of the noise shuts off and is replaced by the producer's voice. Many on-air talent immediately shut up when this happens - once you notice it once, you notice it a thousand times. But Kay keeps talking while listening to something unrelated. That takes talent.


Overall, not much south of average. He has his bad points, but many underrated good points as well.

Waldman is horrible. She never says anything worthwhile, often says things that are downright idiotic (in Boston she said she didn't want Chacon because she's sick of NL pitchers, then immediately said she wanted the Yankees to get Al Leiter instead of Chacon), and worst of all, she stumbles over her tounge. Oftentimes, she struggles to get her thoughts out of her mouth.

I've been listening to several out of town broadcasts lately, and one thing that I've got to give Sterling major credit for is that while he openly roots for the Yankees, he calls the game with equal drama for both sides.

Vlad's Grand Slam on Thursday got a "IT IS HIGH..." call, when the Yankees lose, he still shouts, "Ballgame over!". He screams at great plays by the other team just like he does for Jeter's great-looking plays.

A lot of other announcers, if the opposing team hits a homer, the call is "hit down the left field line... and that's a homer." And they do it as unemotionally as they would saying "I'm going to get a drink of water".

I find that much more annoying than Sterling's schtick.

Phil Mushnick in the Post has a note how 84 year old Bell's Palsy afflicted Ralph Kiner is still sharp.

That may be so, but he botched one bigtime on the Mets' game on Friday, when Weaver started struggling they had a shot of someone warming up in the Dodger pen and the PBP commented on it ("There's righty John Doe up in the Dodger bullpen") and then like 30 seconds Kiner goes "I'm surprised they don't have anyone warming up"

"Who's worse: Michael Kay or Suzyn Waldman?"

well, obviously Waldman. Objectively, Kay does have positive attributes. he can speak clearly, he can ask his analysts good questions, etc. i can't stand him but he obviously has some kind of ability.

Waldman speaks through her nose, gets out of breath when she strings together more than 12 words, has orgasms over certain players "owning" certain pitchers based on being 2 for 3 against him in the past...she brings nothing to the table as an announcer.

I hate Michael Kay. That said, I've never been as upset with or about him as I was during the Rivera incident yesterday. TVErik, I would agree with you if this was a case where he mentioned something, was wrong, gave an apology and moved on. However, in thise case, as J1F pointed out, Kay and Murcer for that matter went on and on and on about how Rivera stole the glove and how he broke a sacred rule of clubhouse and then talked about how Jeter's turning the DP was some form of revenge. To the average fan who tuned in for that segment, Juan Rivera is now some sort of baseball goon and that's purely because Kay was too stupid/lazy to do his job.

In broadcast, he's ok, though he could use a crash course in what is and what is not a home run off the bat.

Speaking of which, on Saturday night Mel Proctor called a ball "off the top of the wall...just missed a homer" when it clearly hit right where the bottom of the wall meets the track. Then, a few batters later, someone hit a ball that bounced ten feet in front of the wall, over for a double, and Proctor called it a home run. My standards for play by play are pretty low, but that was a bit much.

Respectfully, I don't think Murcer was paying attention. It was like Kay nudged him and asked him to talk for twenty minutes about locker room trust. I don't think he mentioned Rivera by name, or spoke about the specific situation at all. He just went on about baseball generalities, which is what he does.

The "revenge" thing made a bad mistake worse. But again, I think people in that position say occasionally stunningly stupid things, and getting a short-time Yankee's name wrong is certainly within that realm.

are announcers like kay immune from, say, libel or slander law? if i'd made a mistake like that back when i was covering the courts, i'd live in fear of being sued, & probably my paper would settle with the complainant out of court (judging from what they did in at least one case i can recall involving a state reporter), depending i suppose on whether juan rivera is considered a public figure. does the emily-latella(sp?)-esque "never miiiiiiind" a couple of innings later mitigate any perceived damage? if memory serves, running a correction the next day on an allegedly libelous story is not considered to have cured the problem in any way, shape or form.

there's some sort of fact-checking process before you print, gef, which makes it a different animal.

If people sued talk radio guys every time they bash somebody, the courts wouldn't have time for medical malpracice and insurance suits. Then what would we do for a country?

there's some sort of fact-checking process before you print, gef, which makes it a different animal.

ah, true enough. right after i sent that, i realized that if, say, rush limbaugh or michael weiner were subject to the same rules as actual journalists (who can be bad enough, god knows), their asses would be in the poor house.

there's some sort of fact-checking process before you print, gef, which makes it a different animal.

Most magazines fact-check, but newspapers don't.

Damn, there was something Kiner said Friday night, I think around the sixth inning, that was just so off-the-wall wrong that I immediately started ranting in disbielief - and now I have absolutely no clue what it was.

Most magazines fact-check, but newspapers don't.

depends on your definition of fact-checking. i assume tve was referring to line- & copy-editing in newspapers.

there's some sort of fact-checking process before you print, gef, which makes it a different animal.

Most magazines fact-check, but newspapers don't.

if i'd made a mistake like that back when i was covering the courts, i'd live in fear of being sued

Well, that's the fallacy of the predetermined outcome, in that who can be sure if I would have made the same idiotic mistake had I known I could be sued?

Damn, there was something Kiner said Friday night, I think around the sixth inning, that was just so off-the-wall wrong that I immediately started ranting in disbielief

Seaver was actually annoying me more, on the ball Beltran (I think) hit the HR off, Seaver goes "He hit that off a fastball" and then they showed a reply that made it perfectly clear Weaver had spun a breaking ball and just left it there to be crushed and Seaver goes "Bit of a hanging fastball really"

seaver constantly misidentifies pitches...quite strange for a pitcher.

I doubt anyone would steal the Bill Simmons identity AND write something reasonable, so I'm guessing that was/it the real Simmons.

I'm pretty sure it's not, based on the comments "Simmons" made in the last Simmons thread.

and getting a short-time Yankee's name wrong is certainly within that realm.

I guess this is a difference of opinion, but Kay should have known who Juan Rivera was. The guy was the full time LF in '02 for a month before injuring his knee and then was played a large role on the '03 team taking over starting duties by year's end once again and was a big part of the Vazquez deal.

Juan Rivera started all four games of the 2002 ALDS against the Angels in left field.

seaver constantly misidentifies pitches...quite strange for a pitcher.

Yes, but not strange for a Trojan.

Juan Rivera started all four games of the 2002 ALDS against the Angels in left field.

Yes, but did he ever have a Yankee Moment? Michael Kay can't be expected to remember mere team regulars; only True Yankees are deserving of attention and memory.

Juan Rivera started all four games of the 2002 ALDS against the Angels in left field.

And look how well that turned out...

He more or less factually reported that the Yankees released this guy after he stole Jeter's glove in spring training, and commented on the irony (but didn't use "ironically enough", which would have been proper in this situation) that Jeter would have simply given him a glove if asked."

I've never heard Michael Kay correctly identify irony and I've only ever heard him misidentify things as ironic.

It doesn't appear you should give him lessons, either.

are announcers like kay immune from, say, libel or slander law? if i'd made a mistake like that back when i was covering the courts, i'd live in fear of being sued, & probably my paper would settle with the complainant out of court (judging from what they did in at least one case i can recall involving a state reporter), depending i suppose on whether juan rivera is considered a public figure. does the emily-latella(sp?)-esque "never miiiiiiind" a couple of innings later mitigate any perceived damage? if memory serves, running a


Just wanted to say that in my First Amendment class, we explored the question of just who qualified as a public figure by taking the example of Jay Buhner.

Both Ruben and Juan Rivera would be considered public figures. And it would be pretty hard to prove that Kay made his statements knowing that they were false. Because he didn't know they were false. He just made a mistake. And he apologized. So it would be pretty hard to prove that Juan Rivera's reputation was damaged in anyway.

Michael Kay's was damaged more.

And it would be pretty hard to prove that Kay made his statements knowing that they were false.

no doubt ... but just how big an element of (non-)libel would that be? i mean, when our aforementioned state reporter screwed up by reporting that a former prosecutor was a convicted felon (problem was, the guy's record had been expunger or his conviction overturned or something like that), he didn't *know* he was misreporting the facts.

According to Raissman in NY Daily News the YES rebroadcast of the gaem Monday left out the inning when Kay's comments appeared. Much like the video/CD of Bob Dylan's 60th birthday edited out Sinead O'Connor's outburst against the Pope. Or ESPN Classic edited out Danica Patrick's accident that knocked Tomas Enge and Tomas Scheckter. Pathetitc.
I guess Newsweek isn't one of the "Most magagaizene" that fatchecks.