Don't forget the Phillies-Mets rivalry, which ratcheted up a notch last night.

left over 1,500 seats empty. It was the 7th time such a thing happened this season despite claims by the Yankees that basically every game in The Final Season of Historic Yankee Stadium (C) was either sold out or borderline sold-out.

Shouldn't 1,500 tickets short count as a "borderline sell-out", esp. given the difficulties in selling the last few ticket since they tend to be singles?

Jets-Patriots rivalry

Are the Jets and the Sharks still a don't-invite-'em item?

It was the 7th time such a thing happened this season despite claims by the Yankees that basically every game in The Final Season of Historic Yankee Stadium (C) was either sold out or borderline sold-out.

At a table in a cramped kitchen, somewhere on the East Side...

Hal: (reading morning paper) Tough loss last night.

Hank: (takes a bite of scrambled eggs) Mmm.

Hal: (turning the page) Too bad Andy didn't have his best stuff.

Hank: (more eggs) Yeah.

(Silence for a minute.)

Hal: Hey! What's with the attendance?

(Hank pretends not to hear, takes a big bite of toast. Hal folds the newspaper down, and glares at his brother.)

Hal: HEY!

Hank: (mouth full of toast) Whub?

Hal: I said, what's with the attendance?

Hank: Ib wuf greab. Nearwy a sewwoub.

Hal: Can you try that again, except this time try not to get toast on my suit?

Hank: (swallows) It was great. Nearly a sellout.

Hal: NEARLY? It's late August, the Red Sox are in town, it's the last year of Yankee Stadium... and it's NEARLY a sellout?

Hank: What do you want from me? We tried to get the message out that this was an important series.

Hal: And how did you do that?

Hank: We've been telling everyone for weeks that we've been selling out every game.

Hal: (stares silently for 10 seconds) We did what?

Hank: We've been telling every-

Hal: I heard you the first time. Why would we do that?

Hank: It tells people that there are very few tickets, and they should rush out and buy some now.

Hal: But if you're telling everyone the games are sold out, what do they think they are going to buy?

Hank: Tickets. Duuuuuh.

Hal: What tickets? You just told them the games are sold out.

Hank: We've got plenty of tickets.

Hal: But the fans don't know that.

Hank: That's why we're encouraging them to hurry up and buy tickets.

Hal: ...by telling them there aren't any.

Hank: (pauses for a bit) But there are.

Hal: And they don't know that.

Hank: (pauses again) But we told them -

Hal: YOU TOLD THEM THERE ARE NO TICKETS! IF YOU TELL THEM THERE'S NO GAME, THEY WON'T COME TO THE STADIUM. IF YOU TELL THEM THERE'S NO BEER, THEY WON'T BUY BEER. AND IF YOU TELL THEM THERE ARE NO TICKETS, THEY WON'T BUY TICKETS.

Hank: (mumbles) But we do have tickets.

Hal: YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! (Stands up, slams the newspaper down on the table.) WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? ARE YOU -

(George Steinbrenner enters, wearing a bathrobe, looking like he just woke up.)

George: What's all this racket?

Hank: Dad, Hal was yelling at me!

Hal: Because he doesn't know how to promote the team.

George: Hank, what did you do?

Hank: I've been telling people that our games are sold out.

George: Ah, good move. That'll scare everyone into buying tickets before we run out. Bold. (pinches Hank's cheek) Atta boy. (turns toward Hal) Go buy me some socks.

Hal: But Dad -

George: Are you incapable of buying socks?

Hal: (hangs his head) No.

George: Then go. Make yourself useful.

Tim Wakefield tied Cy Young for the most decisions by a pitcher in Red Sox history with No. 304

Next in line--Red Klotz!

Great exchange, Villageidiom.

Reminds me of the extremely funny graphic novel from 1990, Why I hate Saturn (you should read it if you haven't).

Yankees' fans are front-runners?

Who'da thunk it?

The season died when Joba walked off the mound in Texas.

Maury Wills already tied Cy Young in Cy Young Awards won.

Anytime you tie Cy Young in anything, you deserve props.

Well, except losses.

Hmmm. How many people here have attended 316 major league ballgames? I've seen maybe 200 or so...

The season died when Joba walked off the mound in Texas.

Seriously. I don't understand how anyone could look at this team and expect them to make a run.

Way to kill all the drama, Red Sox. Supposed to win the last game of the series, not the first.

Anyway, 96% is at least "borderline" sold-out and probably more than that, since it's pretty much as sold out as games get. Listed capacity might be ~57,350 but I would guess it never actually fills that high.

ALCS Game Seven in 2004, for example, was at 56,129, which means there were over 1200 seats "left empty" for basically the most important game in Red Sox-Yankee history. That seems wholly improbable.

Tough day for The Rod. Michael Kay was ripping him a new a-hole on TV...

"Anyway, 96% is at least "borderline" sold-out and probably more than that, since it's pretty much as sold out as games get."

If all available tickets are sold, then it's sold out. If they aren't, then it's not. "Close" doesn't count.

Anytime you tie Cy Young in anything, you deserve props.

Coming soon, Ben Francisco ties Cy Young on the all-time list by hitting his 18th career home run!

Well, except losses.

It's too bad that Anthony Young wasn't able to stick around longer.

If all available tickets are sold, then it's sold out. If they aren't, then it's not. "Close" doesn't count.

Well, that's kind of silly then. I'm sure there aren't more than a handful of events for which literally every ticket is sold. Persumably the Yankees hold back seats for players, ownership partners etc. etc. which aren't, strictly speaking, sold.

If the only definition of a sell-out you'll accept is literally every seat listed in the stadium's capacity sold (or occupied), there probably aren't a lot of sell-outs. That's fine, I suppose, but it's disingenous to use that defintion to make claims like the one in the intro or in #7

There are state regulations - I don't know the exact ones in NY, but they have to hold a certain number of handicapped-accessible seats right up until gametime. A literal sellout is borderline illegal.

ALCS Game Seven in 2004, for example, was at 56,129, which means there were over 1200 seats "left empty" for basically the most important game in Red Sox-Yankee history. That seems wholly improbable.

could be that they needed to use some of the seats or standing room area for media stuffs. that would reduce capacity.

Yankee Stadium doesn't have a phalanx of handicapped scalpers who would snap up those seats and create a true sellout?

Tough day for The Rod. Michael Kay was ripping him a new a-hole on TV...

He was crap last night, but in the rush to dump on him it's getting overlooked that Masterson threw him a nasty pitch to induce that DP in the 7th. The kid did a great job for being a rookie in a big spot in Yankee Stadium. I wish Delcarmen could take notice of Masterson's poise on the mound.

could be that they needed to use some of the seats or standing room area for media stuffs. that would reduce capacity.

That's possible. But I'm sure with a bit of searching I could find a Yankee/Sox game circa 2003-2005 that was outdrawn by last night. Claiming the rivlary is dead or that Yankee fans are front-runners based on a 96% sell-out is basically insane.

I'm really surprised that they don't, Crispix.

FWIW, they're great seats. I ended up in one years ago when showing up at the last minute. They sold me the ticket immediately after the first pitch - the ticket person told me that he had to hold them for visibly handicapped people prior to game time, but that he could sell them to able-bodied people as soon as the game started.

At the Stadium, they're actually in Monument Park, in left field at field level, behind the Plexiglass.

"If the only definition of a sell-out you'll accept is literally every seat listed in the stadium's capacity sold (or occupied), there probably aren't a lot of sell-outs."

Seats that are held out for mediots or the handicapped or whatever don't count, since the team wasn't planning on selling them. The tickets that the Yankees didn't sell for this game are different, since they apparently planned on selling them, but weren't able to do so.

I don't see why the distinction is so hard to grasp.

"Coming soon, Ben Francisco ties Cy Young on the all-time list by hitting his 18th career home run!"

18 HR in the majors is still 18 more than I ever hit. Probably the same for most people here, too.

Tough day for The Rod

I was really surprised to see how lost he was against Wakefield. It was like he had never seen a knuckleball before - he really had no idea how to hit it. But, eh, it's one game. If the Yankees end up fishing in October, ARod having one bad game in August won't be the reason.

The tickets that the Yankees didn't sell for this game are different, since they apparently planned on selling them, but weren't able to do so.

But that's assumption you're making. Persumably there are a variable number of media tickets held for each game, since the Yankees/Red Sox draw more reporters than the Yankees/Orioles. So the Yankees usually hold X seats for the press, but 2X for Sox games. For whatever reasons, at this game only X reporters showed up, so there are more "empty" seats which were never going to be sold. (Except perhaps like in Erik's example in #23.)

He was crap last night, but in the rush to dump on him it's getting overlooked that Masterson threw him a nasty pitch to induce that DP in the 7th.

That AB in the 7th was a microcosm of A-Rod's entire season. He's been terrible in high leverage situations all year and I fully expected him to not come through, although I was figuring strikeout rather than DP. Maybe next year he has his divorce behind him and 2007 A-Rod will come out to play.

That AB in the 7th was a microcosm of A-Rod's entire season.

There's truth here, and I agree that it's a microcosm of his late-innings season, but I don't think an impotent AB like that is emblematic of a top-shelf offensive contributor's whole season.

Attendance: 55,058 (95.8% full)

What is especially notable (funny?) is that the "game notes" section describes it as a "sellout" crowd. 5% below capacity doesn't sound like a "sellout," but then that is probably using the same math that the Enron accountants used to make them a top 10 company when they were basically worthless.

FWIW, i attempted to buy tickets to yesterdays game through ticketmaster at some point last week (can't remember when exactly). It came up as sold out....at least when trying to buy 2 tickets....i know that a lot of times, games that are "sold out" magically have more tickets appear as you get closer to game time. maybe something happened like that.

Tim Wakefield's a fun player.

In other Cy Young/Tim Wakefield news, Wakefield is only four hit batters behind Young. Maybe some team can sign Craig Biggio to a one day contract and they can plunk two birds with one stone. . .

The handicapped seats at Wrigley are awesome: right behind home plate, second section (thirteenth row?). At The Cell, not so much: right behind home plate, but just below the concourse.

That was Ticketmaster selling out, not the Yankees. They reserve Stadium seats that they don't let TM resell.

If Yankee fans are seriously going to piss and moan because of A-Rod's lack of "clutch," then they deserve having pitching prospects and old farts repeatedly come up lame, and they deserve the inglorious shame that comes with actually not making the playoffs for the first time in over 10 years.

If Yankee fans are seriously going to piss and moan because of A-Rod's lack of "clutch," then they deserve having pitching prospects and old farts repeatedly come up lame, and they deserve the inglorious shame that comes with actually not making the playoffs for the first time in over 10 years.

Well, he really has lacked "clutch" in 2008... it's not subject to debate. That doesn't make him a bad player or person, and doesn't tell us anything about his performance going forward. It just means he's been somewhat less valuable in 2008 than a cursory look at his OPS+ would indicate. He's been great in the clutch in the past and will probably be so again some day in the future. 2009 is a brand new season...

Notwithstanding the listed 57000+ capacity, I've never seen an attendance figure anywhere near that in the renovated Yankee Stadium. I don't know if they've lost seats, or there is something in the way they calculate the announced "paid attendance," but I can assure you that in many if not all of those "sold out" games where attendance was a mere 55000+, there were no additional tickets available for purchase by the public.

The answer to a number of questions in this thread is, "Yes, if the team gives away tickets, either to players' families, various dignitaries, or prize-winners, they are not counted as part of the 'paid' attendance. Thus a team can actually have a sellout with paid attendance < capacity."

EDIT: Apparently I should refresh the thread after I return from meetings.

Are the Jets and the Sharks still a don't-invite-'em item?

Yes. The Sharks need to beat it. They should stick to their territory, San Jose.

Um, isn't a game sold out if all tickets are sold? It doesn't matter if none of the ticket holders show up, right? So it's possible for a game to be both sold out and for attendance at that game to be less than 100%? Right?

Yes. The Sharks need to beat it. They should stick to their territory, San Jose.

The rivalry died down considerably when the Jets left Winnipeg.

As others have noted, the box score lists the paid attendance, which is reduced by the number of tickets given to players, team officials, advertisers and others. Thus, these games are sold out under the defnition that all MLB teams supposedly use. In any event, the Yanks certainly don't have an attendance problem - they're leading all of MLB for the 6th consecutive year, surpassing 4 million for the 4th straight year and on-pace to set an all-time record. A non-problem by any definition.

A non-problem by any definition.

If you budget assuming $x from attendance, but get $(x-y), then you have a problem.

Not saying that's the case, just that raw numbers don't tell the tale.

The rivalry died down considerably when the Jets left Winnipeg.

So much for being a Jet all the way, then, I guess.