Cashman also made comments about Kevin Brown's breath, Tino Martinez' haricut, and the length of Bubba Crosby's fingernails.

It's too bad that Hank Steinbrenner, Joe Torre and the Tampa Mafia put those words in Cashman's mouth. Will poor Cashman ever catch a break?

In 2006, Bernie was horrendous both in the field and at the plate against righthanded pitching. He did have a very good season against lefthanded pitching, but Torre was unwilling to limit him to that role. So Cashman was clearly correct in everything he said, but I am not at all sure why he feels being so candid in public is prudent.

I completely agree with him, but i'm very surprised he would say this publicly. There's gotta be something going on behind the scenes

In 2006, Bernie was horrendous both in the field and at the plate against righthanded pitching. He did have a very good season against lefthanded pitching, but Torre was unwilling to limit him to that role. So Cashman was clearly correct in everything he said...

That doesn't follow at all. See the article. Cashman said that Williams spent too much time with his burgeoning music career “and that took away from his play” on the field.

That Bernie sucked is evident. There's no great reason to harp on it in public like this, but as you say, Bernie did suck. To question his commitment to baseball, though, is not at all justified by Bernie's poor season. There's no evidence that Cashman is "clearly correct" to cast aspersions on Williams' professionalism.

Aren't these statements sound like something that vintage George or maybe Hank would say?

I concur, Matt. I was referring to Cashman's comments about his performance on the field, not about the question of whether Bernie's committment to music hurt his baseball performance. I personally don't find it hard to believe that Bernie was not working as hard at baseball as he might have done in the past, but the effect on performance would be hard to quantify. It does seem clear that whatever Bernie was doing must have frustrated Yankee management. They would have every right to expect somone whose performance was declining rapidly to work as hard as possible to combat the decline, but I still don't see the upside in publically commenting on Bernie's work habits.

I guess I'd like to know who the better players who were available in '06 were...

In '06 Bernie hit .281/.332/.436 (420 AB)

Melky hit .280/.360/.391 (460 AB)
Craig Wilson hit .212/.248/.365 (104 AB)
Aaron Guiel hit .256/.337/.439 (82 AB)
Bubba Crosby hit .207/.258/.299 (87 AB)

Unless I'm supposed to buy into one of the Kevins as OF savior, I don't get this. Once Matsui and Sheffeild went down, who was Bernie taking time away from who was so much better? Sure he was a mess defensively and it was obvious his career was coming to a close, but the state of the Yankee OF in '06 can't really be laid at the feet of playing Bernie over some budding superstar.

They didn't need him in '07, and that's OK, I have no problem with the way things ended (most endings seem bad in the short term), but this statement seems like Cashman is trying to protect his own neck.

I was referring to Cashman's comments about his performance on the field, not about the question of whether Bernie's committment to music hurt his baseball performance. I personally don't find it hard to believe that Bernie was not working as hard at baseball as he might have done in the past, but the effect on performance would be hard to quantify.

Did Cashman have a stance on Derek Jeter's "Party-gate" feud with the Boss? I don't recall...

Cashman was never a Bernie fan. He was rolling out the red carpet for Albert Belle and practically daring Bernie to sign with the Red Sox in the winter of 98-99. When Belle finked out at the last minute, the Yankees had to go crawling back to Bernie, and management resented him after that. It didn’t help that Bernie proved himself a much better investment than Belle in the aftermath. IMO, Cashman still harbors bitterness toward Bernie for making him look bad.

I like Cashman’s organizational philosophy, but his biggest weakness as a General Manager is his refusal to admit a mistake. Working within the Yankees’ chaotic structure for the duration of his management career, forced to defend his every move to both Steinbrenner and his minions, has made him extremely inflexible in recognizing his own errors. He refuses to cut the chord with “his guys”. Pavano is one of those guys. Farnsworth. From this point of view, it’s exceedingly easy to see why Cashman is out to defame the legend of Bernie Williams, toss a little dirt on the monument. The fans worship Bernie, have practically defied him, and Cash never even wanted him past ’98. Probably annoys him, which manifests itself in these kind of quotes…

and management resented him after that. It didn’t help that Bernie proved himself a much better investment than Belle in the aftermath. IMO, Cashman still harbors bitterness toward Bernie for making him look bad.

That's a pretty scathing indictment of Cashman's character.

That's a pretty scathing indictment of Cashman's character.

Well, those are some pretty tough comments made in a public forum. I don’t think this feud is on a venomous level… I just think we’re in tweak mode right now. It’ll be interesting to see how Bernie responds.

It’ll be interesting to see how Bernie responds.

You don't even have to RTFA for that.

“I don’t think he has any basis to say anything like that,” Williams said. “Let me put it this way: Questioning a person’s commitment to the team is a very serious accusation, at least in my book.”

You don't even have to RTFA for that.

“I don’t think he has any basis to say anything like that,” Williams said. “Let me put it this way: Questioning a person’s commitment to the team is a very serious accusation, at least in my book.”

Oh, damn, bad job by me there. But yeah, Bernie’s response doesn’t surprise me. Questioning commitment is a huge insult in the eyes of a professional athlete, for obvious reasons. Real careless comments by Cashman, regardless of his motive [if he even had one. Could easily be a case of flippancy gone awry]

towards the end of his career, bernie was one of my favorite yankees.

Having read the article the other day, it looks like it was a pretty fun night; not even being a Sox or Yankees fan I would have loved to have been there.

I, for one, welcome the new Yankees organizational philosophy. They were getting way too cuddly with Torre and George out the picture. Now, we're getting back to some serious "Evil Empire" stuff. Much more fun.

Yes, Cashman "clearly lacks that certain something...needed to run an organization." One can ascertain this by the fact that the Yankees have made the playoffs in every single year of his tenure.

This is classless ######## on Cashman's part.

It is true that Williams's injuries led to a slide that came heavy and a little early (.908 OPS at 33 to .778 at 34; he never reached .800 again and was just awful afield). But to publicly question his work ethic and professionalism given his accomplishments is completely uncalled for.

For my money, Williams was the Yankees' best outfielder since Mantle and was the best player on all four of the Yankees' world champions. He was, for a time, a very good center fielder, and hit for an .851 OPS (.371/.480) with 22 home runs in 465 post-season at bats. Also, FWIW, he played with a grace that made him a pleasure to watch. His career was controversy free and embodied the quiet, focused approach of the Torre, post-Bronx Zoo Yankees.

I've always thought of him as a symbol of the Yankees' resurgence from the depths of the Dallas/Dent/Stump era -- remember when the Yankees were losing 90+ games a year? Williams was a huge part of the turnaround.

And now this.

Happy Base Ball

While Cashman was candidly analyzing it would have been nice to hear a review of his own performance.He could start with the opening day starter Carl Pavano continue to Igawa and end up with another playoff debacle by a team he says "Wasn't mentally tough enough." Who put the roster together?

I think you could easily make the argument that Williams was better than Reggie and Winfield as a Yankee outfielder. A .900 OPS for 7 straight seasons is very, very good for a CF. And it was right over their mini-dynasty 1995-2002.

You could say that Berine was to the Yanks that Scottie Pippen was to the Bulls.

kevin, I'd put him better than Winfield because of the OBA difference & Winfield's being a double-play machine. I do think Williams carried more defensive value than Winfield, who I always though was overrated with the glove because of his athleticism and great arm (the defensive metrics might contradict me).

Reggie was certainly a better player, but was a Yank for only five years. Perhaps a better description would be "best Yankees career by an outfielder since Mantle".

I'll listen to arguments for the contrary, but I do think he was better than Winfield. I stand by my statement that he was the best player on all for world-title clubs, and being the best player on a 114-win team is rather impressive in my book.

At any rate, Bernie had a very impressive career in Pinstripes and Cashman, whether ordered to or not -- and I can't for the life of me imagine why he'd be instructed to do this -- was out of line.

Happy Base Ball

You could say that Berine was to the Yanks that Scottie Pippen was to the Bulls.

You better not be saying that Jeter was Jordan.

Maybe the combination of Jeter and Rivera is Jordan? No, I am not going to say that Jeter was Jordan. My point was that Jordan's Bulls weren't going to win without Scottie, just like 90's Yankee teams don't win without Bernie.

For my money, Williams was the Yankees' best outfielder since Mantle

Thanks for inspiring a Stat-of-the-Day blog posting from me, Lance.

Better than Reggie and Winfield?

Wow.

I think he clocks Winfield based on Yankee performance alone. If you're peak-a-rific, I can see the Reggie argument, but Williams played there three times as long.

I'd put him better than Winfield because of the OBA difference & Winfield's being a double-play machine.

Aside from '83, Winfield hit into DPs about as often as Williams.

Bulls weren't going to win without Scottie, just like 90's Yankee teams don't win without Bernie.


you mean Scott Brosius, don't you?


selective end points edit:

OPS+ Yankees 1995-2002 (min 1500 PAs)

1 Bernie Williams 142 5103
2 Derek Jeter 121 4981
3 Paul O'Neill 118 4378
4 Jorge Posada 116 2864
5 Tino Martinez 114 3896
6 Wade Boggs 106 1522
7 Chuck Knoblauch 100 2478

I agree that looking at years with the Yankees only, Bernie is better than Reggie or Winfield.

WARP3 scores as Yankees:

Williams - 103.8
Winfield - 53.4

Five best seasons:

Williams - 11.9 (1995), 9.9 (1999), 9.0 (1998), 8.7 (1994, 2001)
Winfield - 10.0 (1984), 7.6 (1988), 6.7*(1981), 6.5 (1982) 6.4 (1983, 1986)
* 107 team games, projects to 10.1 per 162

Looking at DW's non-Yank years, his single most WARP3 were 12.3 with San Diego in '79. His second-best would be either '84 or '81, depending on how you pro-rate for the strike. His next best was 8.4 ('77). Williams had five seasons at or above 8.7

Happy Base Ball

Note: BP does have Jeter as being slightly better than Williams on two WS winners: '98 & '99, so I'll soften my stance on that count.

Happy Base Ball

Better than Reggie and Winfield?

Wow.

Rickey would get more respect for smackin' down Ty Cobb if Rickey played the mothafuckin' accordion or somethin'.

Bernie was a very good ballplayer, but I could see him being very frustrating to a GM.

Despite great speed he couldn't steal a base, and his CF defense was underwhelming. He seemed like a "dumb" ballplayer; "dumb" in a baseball sense, he seems to be a very smart man.

He also seemed to lack intensity, too much of a "just happy to be here" guy. I could definitely she him being lax about conditioning, and that contributing to his frequent month-long injuries and precipitous decline.

He's always the kind of guy where you say, "if Paul O'Neill or Don Mattingly had his raw physical tools they'd be inner circle HoF'ers".

Very good player, but frustrating nonetheless.

I guess I'd like to know who the better players who were available in '06 were...

I'm with you, Munsons. Hard to make a case that that there were better players available than Williams once Sheffield and Matsui went down.

I also agree that this doesn't sound like Cashman at all.

Williams got old, and dropped off suddenly in 2003, at the age of 34. He's hardly the first player that happened to.

Williams got old, and dropped off suddenly in 2003, at the age of 34. He's hardly the first player that happened to.

That was also when he tore up his knee, as kevin noted.

I agree that looking at years with the Yankees only, Bernie is better than Reggie or Winfield.

Me too.

Williams got old, and dropped off suddenly in 2003, at the age of 34. He's hardly the first player that happened to.

That was also when he tore up his knee, as kevin noted.

Right; I missed that.

I assume the knee injury came in late May (May 21st). To that point, he was having a more typical season (.286/.397/.457), although a little below his established level. In the second half he hit just .248/.346/.392.

Breaking it down a little more... he had a great April that year (.346/.452/.596) and then tanked in May (.197/.313/.254, in 83 PAs through May 21).

Breaking it down a little more... he had a great April that year (.346/.452/.596) and then tanked in May (.197/.313/.254, in 83 PAs through May 21).

I think he hurt the knee sometime in early May, tried to play through it, and then had to have surgery when it clearly wasn't working. I was a shame, too, as he was off to an uncharacteristically torrid start (as you note).

I think he hurt the knee sometime in early May, tried to play through it, and then had to have surgery when it clearly wasn't working. I was a shame, too, as he was off to an uncharacteristically torrid start (as you note).

You learn something new every day. Over the past few years I'd completely forgotten about his knee injury, and so whenever I looked at his career I thought he simply fell off the table with age as the simple explanation. But the knee injury -- along with age, of course -- may have really played a significant role. After the knee injury he had just one month in his career that was at his 1997-2002 level: a .341/.434/.538 performance in June of 2004.

I loved Bernie, but given his defensive limitations, I don't see how Melky wasn't clearly a better option any time the choice was between those two.

I loved Bernie, but given his defensive limitations, I don't see how Melky wasn't clearly a better option any time the choice was between those two.

Because in '06 Melky was worse (or at least just as bad) in CF. Melky was not even that good last year, but I think people forget just how bad he was in '06. Sure he was still learning to play the position in the majors, but that's excusing the problem, not rendering the actual performance moot.

The Trot Nixon inside the park home run is the most egregious example that comes to mind.

You can argue that playing Melky was a case of developing young talent, but if that's the case then Cashman should probably STFU and stop coming up with rationalizations about Bernie's conditioning or being played only as one of Torre's "favorites" because from a winning games standpoint the only thing that saved the Yankee OF was the trade for Abreu.

The Trot Nixon inside the park home run is the most egregious example that comes to mind.

Wasn't that in 2005? I don't remember Melky playing much center in 2006. He only played four games there that year, for a total of 23 innings.

Because in '06 Melky was worse (or at least just as bad) in CF.

Well, in a neat trick, you've managed to wrong twice in one sentence. Melky's Not-Ready-for-Prime-Time year was 2005, by 2006 he was fine. And anyway, in 2006 neither Bernie nor Melky was playing much CF anyway, because they had Damon.

Bernie, however, was trotted out all the time in RF, a place where he clearly didn't belong. But where Melky would've been plainly superior, given his arm.

Five best seasons:

Williams - 11.9 (1995), 9.9 (1999), 9.0 (1998), 8.7 (1994, 2001)
Winfield - 10.0 (1984), 7.6 (1988), 6.7*(1981), 6.5 (1982) 6.4 (1983, 1986)
* 107 team games, projects to 10.1 per 162


1995 is strike-shortened too, and Williams actually managed to play every game. Did you pro-rate that season too? If not, he goes even higher, which is pretty surprising since by a glance 1995 doesn't look like far and away his best season.

WARP3 has a timeline element to it, so recent players rate higher than older ones. Now the difference between Williams and Winfield is only about 15 years, so it shouldn't be a big deal, but I still think WARP1 would be better for this comparison.

If Williams's 1995 rates so high, BP must be very high on his defense that season, which brings me to...

Despite great speed he couldn't steal a base, and his CF defense was underwhelming.

True, he never learned to steal a base, but early in his career, e.g. c. 1995, I thought he was a very good defensive CF. He fell off quickly, and his last couple Gold Gloves were jokes, but he may well have deserved 1 or 2 a couple years before he ever won one.

in '06 Melky was worse (or at least just as bad) in CF. Melky was not even that good last year, but I think people forget just how bad he was in '06.

As RLR notes, he barely played CF in '06. He certainly didn't look good when he came up in '05, and that Nixon play must be the most famous inside-the-park HR of all time, given how often it's referenced. That probably made Torre reluctant to put him out there again. But once he did, I thought he looked quite good last season. I know Andy has called him the best Yankees CF since DiMaggio. I think it's way to early to say that, and Andy may be influenced by watching the last few seasons of Williams stumbling around out there, but Cabrera can definitely handle the position. He probably could have in '06 too, had he gotten an extended look.

From the article:

Williams spent 16 seasons with the Yankees, hitting .297. He is in the top 10 in team history in games played, hits, home runs, at-bats, doubles, RBIs and runs scored. He was part of four World Series champions and a five-time All-Star.

If Bernie is the problem, I'd like to know what the solution is. Willie Mays?

If Bernie is the problem, I'd like to know what the solution is. Willie Mays?

Bernie was the problem in 2005 and 2006, not his whole career, which was outstanding. Those last two years, though, the solution could have been several people who, if not in the Yankees organization, wouldn't have cost an arm and a leg to acquire.

I don't think anyone's disputing that Williams career was tailing off at that time. Why rip a guy two years after the fact? That they didn't have anyone better at the time isn't Williams' fault. I don't think Cashman can quantify how many fewer runs the Yankees scored because of Williams' music career, so why bring it up now? This makes Cashman look bad.

As RLR notes, he barely played CF in '06.

Neither did Bernie, although his 28 games is a lot more than Melky's 4. My point in regards to their respective defense is that neither of them is really any good out there (Bernie by decline, Melky by inexperience and lack of tools), so Cashman needs to find another explanation for the shots he took. Bernie had a bad year in '05, but Melky was a lot worse. The gap closed in '06, but not so that A) Melky was better or B) it could be chalked up to anything coming off the '05 season.

Looking back over the rosters Cashman put together, I'm still looking for the "better available player(s)" Torre had to choose from, in either year.

I'm really surprised to hear something so controversial, so scathing from Cashman. This from a guy who has mastered the art of "talking a lot, but saying nothing." Cashman is usually one of the dullest interviews around: he gives long, circular, sometimes rambling answers, but rarely says anything substantial.

It's also surprising in that Cashman went out of his way to praise Williams' defensive play in 2005, even though it was plainly obvious that he didn't belong in center field anymore. I'm guessing that some of this current hostility stems from last spring, when Cashman refused to give Williams a major league contract and Williams refused to consider a non-roster invitation.