Francoeur laughed and said, “Yeah, I know. Screw ‘em.”

And join the exclusive Delta Airlines Mile High Club?

I was wondering why it was almost 10 ET and I hadn't received my BTF Franceour update yet.

and borderline Utopian

That's the AJC kids!

I didn't think it would be possible for Franceour to be worse this year than in 08, he's proving me wrong. His walk rate in 09 is 3.2 %.

Today's tag of the day: Minor Leagues.

I need that cover. Only $20? Tempting.

Shouldn't there be a Francoeur tag?

I need that cover. Only $20? Tempting.

Can anyone be this good?

Uh, no?

Can anyone be this good?

242/.266/.356? Yeah, probably anyone can be that good. Not much of a standard though.

I knew that after 30 or 40 Francoeur albums some people would stop spelling it "Francouer", but I never expected that people would now start writing "Franceour".

Just think about how clutch he must be to have all those rbis!!

Only starter without a hit last night. Fantastic. Jurrjens had a much better approach at the plate than he did. I'd have batted jurrjens 7th, schafer 8th, and frenchie 9th.

If Francoeur were DFA'd, would any team claim him? He's making about $3.4M this year.

If Francoeur were DFA'd, would any team claim him? He's making about $3.4M this year.

If he is DFA'd doesn't a team that picks him up only pay the MLB minimum and Atlanta pays the rest?

If Francoeur were DFA'd, would any team claim him? He's making about $3.4M this year.

Almost certainly - he's still viewed as a raw-tools sort of guy, and he does have that hot streak when he first came up, which teams still gaze longingly at.

Of course, they'd almost certainly cut him at the end of the season, once they got the front row seats to the full Francoeur experience.

I think a team that claims a guy on waivers is responsible for the full contract.

What tools does Francoeur have, really? No average, no power, no on-base, no speed, bad defense. Okay, he has a strong throwing arm. Maybe he can pitch.

Francoeur and Micah Owings need to switch positions.

Francoeur and Micah Owings need to switch positions.

Yeah, i wouldn't mind frenchie sitting on the bench four out of every 5 days.

Francoeur and Owings... which of those two 2002 metro Atlanta high school graduates was the more highly regarded hitter? Answer: Not Francoeur.

If he is DFA'd doesn't a team that picks him up only pay the MLB minimum and Atlanta pays the rest?

DFAing him is part of the process that would ultimately determine how much Atlanta would owe. So, if he were picked up on waivers through that - then the new club would assume his contract and pay the Braves a nominal fee. What you're looking for is Frenchie to be released, which is unlikely - I presume the Braves would first stick him in Gwinnett (after he passed through waivers) to try to work through his troubles (since they're paying him anyway).

Having him work through his troubles in Gwinnett would make the most sense to me, although given that his natural approach didn't work; and his new-fangled approach didn't work, I am not sure where he goes from here. In any event, when the Braves do this, they need to have the courage to not make it a 3 or 4 day stay again. We know he can crush AA pitching; we know he cannot hit MLB pitching; somewhere, somehow, we need to close that gap.

Despite all these troubles, Francœur would still be sure to dominate Honkbal Hoofdklasse. The Braves need to make a precedent-shattering trade to Europe.

His new approach was working, but he seems to have given up on it. His current at-bats are just like last year. He was hitting much better in the first month, but he's a dumbass, and quit on himself. Honestly, if he wasn't giving up at least one base a game on defense (another last night) i wouldn't be as incensed.

Despite all these troubles, Francœur would still be sure to dominate Honkbal Hoofdklasse. The Braves need to make a precedent-shattering trade to Europe.

With Delta's impressive list of international destinations, I'm sure Francoeur would travel in comfort and style. Delta Airlines even offers vacation ideas for Copenhagen and dozens of other beautiful cities around the globe.

His new approach was working, but he seems to have given up on it. His current at-bats are just like last year. He was hitting much better in the first month,

His new approach traded more balls in play for power by shortening his swing to start it later, but without walks (or speed, to boost SB totals), he would be at best the emptiest .280 hitter to play the game...a Juan Pierre without speed.

Hi everyone, playing in Holland is even more fun than playing in Atlanta, though nothing could be more fun than playing in Atlanta. Delta flies into Schiphol, I can easily find a TGI Friday's or Outback Steakhouse if I get homesick, and there are so many great places to smoke cannabis here. What's your favorite coffeeshop?

His new approach was working, but he seems to have given up on it.

First, I'm not sure his new approach was "working" per se. He had drastically cut down on K's, picked up slap hits to RF but completely lost any ISO he once had. I'm not sure a Brett Butler clone, only with a .310 OBP and no ability to steal bases is "working." It was just bad in a new way, and you hoped the reduced K's would stick while he resumed some sort of power stroke.

Of course, all of that is out the window now. I don't know that he's "given up" on the new approach so much as he's not terribly smart and he doesn't have the guy that taught him the new approach available to remind him where he's screwing up. If Francoeur were in Texas perhaps he could go to Jaramillo and say "dude, what have I forgotten" and Rudy could say "this, this and this." Maybe then the new approach would stick long enough to see if any power returned. But he's not a Ranger, and he has to go to Terry Pendleton and say "dude, what's up with this" to which Pendleton will inevitably reply "go up there and be aggressive." The man who broke Andruw is not going to fix Francoeur, if that is even possible.

He'd draw mad crowds at Gwinnett, and at this point that's about all the Braves could hope to get out of him.

From TFA

“Rudy called me last night and got on my [rear],” Francoeur said. “We spoke for a while. He had watched some tape and basically said, ‘All the work we’ve done, you’ve abandoned it.’ I knew it, but when he said it, it sunk in. You expect a dropoff, but at the first sign [of trouble] I just went away from everything.”

Francoeur’s father, David, also was at Monday’s game and later gave his son an earful. Off-balance stance. Out front on the swing. Trying to pull pitches.

How does the ethics part of it work out here? Can Jaramillo help Frenchy during the season?

The Braves don't play the Rangers this year, so I don't see why the Rangers would care.

The man who broke Andruw is not going to fix Francoeur...

Dunkin Donuts broke Andruw.
But yeah, I wouldn't expect them to fix Francoeur either...

The Braves don't play the Rangers this year, so I don't see why the Rangers would care.

Except for 7 glorious games in the World Series, you mean.

The Braves don't play the Rangers this year, so I don't see why the Rangers would care.

Unless... they both make the World Series.

Nevermind...
You're right. They won't play each other this year.

Dunkin Donuts broke Andruw.

I thought it was Krispy Kreme.

Too bad Andruw Jones doesn't have a deal with American Airlines.

Too bad Andruw Jones doesn't have a deal with American Airlines.

American Airlines introduces the The Andruw Jones!

Francoeur and Micah Owings need to switch positions.

\\Owings is better at pitching than Frenchy is at hitting... he's also better at hitting than Frenchy is...

He did have an OPS+ of 100 through age 23, 1550 PAs

Players 1947-09, through age 23, 1000+ PAs, OPS+ between 98 and 102:


most of those guys had pretty decent careers

What gets me about Frenchy is that his flaws in his hitting approach were obvious at the very beginning- even when he was doing well- but the Braves either denied that there were any such flaws or downplayed them- which teams tend to do publicly- I don't know what they were doing in private.
I suspect that TPTB with ATl basically had a collective scouting brain fart with respect to Francoeur- they thought to much about what he could do or what they thought he could do and ignored his weaknesses- many time bnad teams will excessively dwell on a player's flaws and not what they can do well- I think Atl did the opposite here, and in so doing missed that Frenchy's flaws were so severe they were gong to swallow up his positives. I think the work they should have done with Frenchy when he was 18-21- overhauling his w=swing, etc., was not done at that time and now it is likely too late.

In 2006 they knew Johnson was a project and immediatley set about revamping his swing and approach- they failed to realize that with Frenchy for whatever reason.

Too bad Andruw Jones doesn't have a deal with American Airlines.


Shouldn't that be Dutch Airlines?

Edit: Also, 3rd Francoeur article in two days. The one I submitted took so long to get approved that it was buried already!

Andruw Jones is hitting .292/.447/.585 so far. He's cooled off in May. Either that, or it's getting to warm in Texas for a fat guy.

Dunkin Donuts broke Andruw.

If by "Dunkin Donuts" you mean "playing every inning of every game for a decade, breaking down the knees and back by running around the outfield and into walls non-stop, and on top of that Terry Pendleton repeatedly telling the most effective hitter on the team this side of Chipper to "be more aggressive, but strike out less" then I suppose you have a point. If JPW is correct that the Braves concentrated too much on "what Francoeur could do" and ignored his greater flaws then that is the exact opposite of what they did with Andruw all those years.

Players 1947-09, through age 23, 1000+ PAs, OPS+ between 98 and 102:

Jay Bruce & Justin Upton could be on that list here soon. Upton's OPS+ will likely be higher than 102 though, and if Bruce can get a little more luck (.206 BABIP this year), he'll go over a 102 OPS+ too.

if by "Dunkin Donuts" you mean "playing every inning of every game for a decade, breaking down the knees and back by running around the outfield and into walls non-stop, and on top of that Terry Pendleton repeatedly telling the most effective hitter on the team this side of Chipper to "be more aggressive, but strike out less" then I suppose you have a point.

No I think he meant Andruw got fat and couldn't hit or field anymore.

His inability to hit or field did not correlate with being fat, though. Also, no other player in history has had a performance decline like Andruw's strictly as a result of being fat, either.

American Airlines introduces the The Andruw Jones!

Hah. Obviously, you're not familiar with Airbus' newest offering: the A350 XWB.

The XWB stands for Xtra Wide-Body.

If a big problem is the Braves hitting coach, why isn't he fired? Bobby Cox may be sacred, but the hitting coach isn't.

If by "Dunkin Donuts" you mean "playing every inning of every game for a decade, breaking down the knees and back by running around the outfield and into walls non-stop, and on top of that Terry Pendleton repeatedly telling the most effective hitter on the team this side of Chipper to "be more aggressive, but strike out less" then I suppose you have a point.

One could also add letting a player who consistently played through injuries to be cast as a malingerer to this list.

His inability to hit or field did not correlate with being fat, though. Also, no other player in history has had a performance decline like Andruw's strictly as a result of being fat, either.

Yes, but his inability to hit or field did correlate with his knees breaking down, an event about which it would be naive to consider his years of carrying excess weight to be necessarily unconnected. And while virtually no other player in history this side of Steve Blass has had a performance decline like Andruw's, severe performance declines as a result of having one's knees go bad are rather common.

Maybe Andruw's knees would have gone south no matter what. But the years of extra stress they endured holding up all that weight surely didn't help.

If a big problem is the Braves hitting coach, why isn't he fired?

The problem isn't specific to an individual hitting coach. It is currently personified by Terry Pendleton, but prior to the TP years it was personified by Don Baylor and Clarence Jones. The Braves have never really had modern, results-oriented hitting coaches. The "be aggressive, don't strike out" mantra is really more of an organizational weakness than the fault of any one coach. There's a reason only very special players - Chipper, Andruw, McCann, hopefully Schafer and Heyward - graduate through the Atlanta farm system with star level offensive skills. Far more common are high level "prospects" like Francoeur, or George Lombard, or Mike Kelly. The Braves love them some toolsy athletes. Bottom line, at least for the last 20 years or so: if a prospect doesn't have the natural understanding and ability to control the plate and be selective, the Braves will not teach them how to do so. That just is "the Braves way" of hitting instruction, I'm afraid. Braves fans just have to take refuge in the fact that they seem to know how to find quality pitchers.

Andruw Jones is hitting .292/.447/.585 so far. He's cooled off in May. Either that, or it's getting to warm in Texas for a fat guy.

He certainly has cooled off in May - but what strikes me is that BB/K ratio is easily the best of his career (small sample size, I know) -- 18 BBs in only 85 PAs, while his K rate has basically moved back to what it was when he was good.

Gotta say, it would be kinda of cool to see Jones successfully transition from the fleet, GG CF type into a Dunn-esque mash, walk, and stand around defensively type.

Yes, but his inability to hit or field did correlate with his knees breaking down, an event about which it would be naive to consider his years of carrying excess weight to be necessarily unconnected.

No one is suggesting that Andruw's lack of conditioning didn't contribute to his breakdown. What we - or at least I am suggesting is that playing every inning for 10 years (including annual trips to the playoffs), oftentimes playing through injuries, contributed to the lack of an off-season conditioning program. When the season ended, Andruw shut down and had a cheeseburger. Because he was beat to holy hell and too tired to work out. This isn't meant to suggest that Andruw couldn't have helped himself by being more committed to his training routine, merely that his breakdown isn't predicated on him being "lazy" as so many often suggest. Andruw Jones played through injury, at the 2nd or 3rd most demanding defensive position, 9 innings per game, 170 games per year, for 10 years. That, more than the occasional donut, is what tore his knees apart.

Gotta say, it would be kinda of cool to see Jones successfully transition from the fleet, GG CF type into a Dunn-esque mash, walk, and stand around defensively type.

It would. I'm skeptical but hopeful.

Andruw Jones played through injury, at the 2nd or 3rd most demanding defensive position, 9 innings per game, 170 games per year, for 10 years. That, more than the occasional donut, is what tore his knees apart.

I'd say it's impossible for us to know which issue contributed more to tearing his knees apart. What we do know is that particularly if a player is going to do what Jones did on the field, then simultaenously doing what he did off the field is an extremely bad idea. Jones wasn't lazy so much as he was reckless.

Jones wasn't lazy so much as he was reckless.

Feh. Jones was a HOF quality baseball player for 10 years. He fell off a cliff due to injuries and general wear and tear. He's made a short-term bounce back as a corner defender/1B with Texas this year. We'll see how long that lasts, but as of right now Jones is far from the only great outfielder to wear down due to overuse and move into the infield corners.

Francoeur delenda est.

He fell off a cliff due to injuries and general wear and tear.

Yes, and those injuries and wear and tear were almost certainly exacerbated by the fact that he spent many years carrying many excess pounds, a factor that was within his capacity to mitigate. Just as it isn't reasonable to overstate the weight issue, it's equally wrong-headed to understate it. It's a prominent, relevant piece of the puzzle that shouldn't be dismissed with a "feh."

The Braves have never really had modern, results-oriented hitting coaches. The "be aggressive, don't strike out" mantra is really more of an organizational weakness than the fault of any one coach.

As of today, the Braves have 4 of the top 10 (or bottom 10, really) in least pitches per plate appearance, in the national league. All 4 guys are home grown talents, having only played for the Braves organization. That cannot be a random event, and really does support the hack-away organizational philosophy.

Feh. Jones was a HOF quality baseball player for 10 years.

It would be interesting to see what voters would do if he could transition into a Dunn clone... if he could string together another 3-4 years of 30+ homers, he'd probably get to the 500 mark. Writers are likely to penalize him for his BA - it's probably doomed to end up in the .250 - .260 range. Whatever the rest of his career holds defensively, you can take away those first 10 years.

Using the HoF standards of counting stats -- I'd have to think 520 HRs, 2200 hits, 1000 BBs, 1500 RBIs, and 10 GGs -- and nothing in the way of roid allegations - gets him in.

There is only one correct answer to the question: "what plane does Andruw Jones most resemble" and this is it.


Q.E.D.

Yes, and those injuries and wear and tear were almost certainly exacerbated by the fact that he spent many years carrying many excess pounds, a factor that was within his capacity to mitigate.

His capacity to mitigate his weight might itself have been mitigated by the amount recuperation necessary following yet another season's worth of injuries and wear and tear.

His capacity to mitigate his weight might itself have been mitigated by the amount recuperation necessary following yet another season's worth of injuries and wear and tear.

Spin it as much as you please, the fact remains that an athlete who doesn't control his weight is begging for long-term trouble.

Spin it as much as you please, the fact remains that an athlete who doesn't control his weight is begging for long-term trouble.

I don't see how the suggestion that playing hurt might complicate a player's ability to keep himself in peak shape for 10 years absolves the player of his responsibilities.

I don't see how the suggestion that playing hurt might complicate a player's ability to keep himself in peak shape for 10 years absolves the player of his responsibilities.

I'm sorry, but you've lost me here.

There sure are a lot of people writing about a RF who's an average player when things are going good, and a replacement level one when things are going bad.

I'm sorry, but you've lost me here.

I think you lost me further up the thread.

I think you lost me further up the thread.

Well, can you give me a little help?

Well, can you give me a little help?

It's my supposition that his decline in performance and concurrent increase in weight was a more complicated issue than simple malingering, that, due to the cumulative effects of playing through injuries for years, he was, to some degree, physically incapable of recovering as quickly and easily as he could when younger. Certainly he did not adequately solve this new problem but it's always surprised me that a majority of Braves fans, in my local, non-partisan experience, focus on his assumed lack of interest in his well being only in terms of weight gain and performance decline rather than what he accomplished on the field, the circumstances of those accomplishments perhaps contributing to decline.

Contrast this with the attitude toward John Smoltz's willingness to pitch until his arm failed then miss an entire season.

Personally, I find both players remarkable in ways both admirable and curious.

It's my supposition that his decline in performance and concurrent increase in weight was a more complicated issue than simple malingering, that, due to the cumulative effects of playing through injuries for years, he was, to some degree, physically incapable of recovering as quickly and easily as he could when younger.

I have no disagreement with this. All I'm saying is that the weight he was carrying was a ticking time bomb, and can't be dismissed as irrelevant to the breakdown of his knees.

I have no disagreement with this. All I'm saying is that the weight he was carrying was a ticking time bomb, and can't be dismissed as irrelevant to the breakdown of his knees.

Then we're in complete agreement as I don't see it as irrelevant, rather as too often unconsidered.

There sure are a lot of people writing about a RF who's an average player when things are going good, and a replacement level one when things are going bad.

Yes. Imagine living in a city where you get a feature article once a week, on how he is either improving; striving to improve; or in very little need of improvement.

There sure are a lot of people writing about a RF who's an average player when things are going good, and a replacement level one when things are going bad.

I think Jeffy's looking up at replacement level at this point...

Yes. Imagine living in a city where you get a feature article once a week, on how he is either improving; striving to improve; or in very little need of improvement.

Understatement of the century...

We've had five Francoeur articles posted here this week, and it's only Wednesday afternoon!

He did have an OPS+ of 100 through age 23, 1550 PAs

Players 1947-09, through age 23, 1000+ PAs, OPS+ between 98 and 102:

Delmon Young, a player in a similar situation as Francoeur, will probably join that list this year. He's 23 and at 96 right now but his season total should go up some from the 77 he's at so far.

It's not just unethical if it hurts the Rangers, it's unethical if it helps the Rangers, too. It's very possible that the Rangers will be in a wild-card race this year and the Braves do play a series of games against the Red Sox and Yankees, both teams that are likely to be in that wild-card race.

MLB should quietly warn Francoeur and Jaramillo to drop it.

"There is only one correct answer to the question: "what plane does Andruw Jones most resemble" and this is it."

What about this one?

Delmon Young, a player in a similar situation as Francoeur, will probably join that list this year. He's 23 and at 96 right now but his season total should go up some from the 77 he's at so far.

about a year and a half ago I posted a line by line age and level comparison of Delmon Young, Chris Young and Lastings Milledge, in an effort to "prove" that statistically speaking Milledge was as good of a prospect as the two Youngs...

Time has proven me to be substantially correct, the two Youngs are as bad with the bat as Lastings...

It's not just unethical if it hurts the Rangers, it's unethical if it helps the Rangers, too.

Why? Why is it unethical to assist a player who is playing your opponents? Is that part of the unwritten rules? Do you know where I can get a copy of them?

Why is it unethical to talk to a player about signing a contract with you when his current one runs out? I know it's against the rules, but why?

As a Ranger fan, I agree with Szym here. It'd be one thing if Jaramillo had kept it to meeting up with Frenchy in the offseason, giving some general hittingn advice. It's another thing entirely, to me, if he's calling during the season and breaking down Jeff's swing mechaics. Not the least of which is that it's pretty disrespectful (whether he agreed or not) to Pendleton.

(EDIT) ####### I hate typing with a half-busted hand.