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Monday, November 02, 2009

Amazin’ Avenue: Page: Why Omar Minaya Failed And What It Means For The Future

On Halloween I went to a party as Ben Baumer. Nobody noticed.

But maybe it is too late for that. As fielding stats get more widely accepted, it seems a glorified Moneyball scenario, where a few teams with superior objective analysis carry an edge, is becoming less likely. As more players, are signing long-term deals with the teams that drafted them, and fewer are hitting free agency, the statistical analysis the Mets have been so neglectful of becomes just the baseline. Indeed, as Jay wrote about some of the most successful teams around the league: “it’s noteworthy that other organizations that have gone with the ‘Ivy League whiz kid’ GM model tend to have a ‘wise old baseball man’ figure hanging close by, advising the gifted non-scout executive. The Red Sox had Bill Lajoie attached to Theo Epstein; Allard Baird is in that role now, while Lajoie is now advising Huntington in Pittsburgh. The Rays put Gerry Hunsicker with Andrew Friedman, and down in Texas, Jon Daniels has access to no less than John Hart and Nolan Ryan.” With that pattern in mind, I was encouraged to read that the Wilpons convinced Sandy Johnson to stay out of retirement, allegedly in preparation for a non-Minaya centric front office.

For similar reasons, these forces will also probably push forward the mythical symbiosis of scouting and statistics that everyone pays lip-service to but isn’t quite sure what they’re referring to. More than just pitchf/x and hitf/x, the observation of both amateur and professional talent will come down to hyper-specific scouting reports that use data and observation to spot trends of growth or deterioration in a player’s skills. And maybe, even then, it will take some “wise old baseball man,” with a special eye for talent, to build the best franchise.

Repoz Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:53 PM | 19 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   1. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:06 PM (#3374435)
I don't anticipate that Minaya will be GM of the Mets a year from now.
   2. Ravecc Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:58 PM (#3374486)
He assumes that Sandy Johnson staying is a good thing, and doesn’t really say why. The man is a big part of the failed process, so why is he exempt from the criticism?
   3. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:04 PM (#3374568)
Hey Repoz, I went to college with Ben Baumer. A Ben Baumer costume would be rather nondescript in fairness to those who didn't notice. Still, he's a good guy, from what I remember, who no one in the msm seems to know work/ed a while in the stats division of the mets.
   4. Roadblock Jones Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:18 PM (#3374589)
Seems to me the Putz trade was neither a case of the Mets over-relying on scouting nor undervaluing statistics; their primary concern was making a show of acknowledging how unhappy they were with the '08 bullpen, and satiating fan/media bloodlust for Aaron Heilman.

To quote Dick Jones in Robocop: "Who cared if it worked or not?"
   5. fra paolo Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:34 PM (#3374601)
This is a very thoughtful article so far, and well-worth a read. Part-way through, I've gone back to extract this, because while I think I can see where Sam Page is going, there is an important fact that I don't think is getting enough emphasis.
One of the many front-office personnel the Expos shed under their reorganization by MLB was Tony LaCava, their farm director. He jumped to the Indians as a cross-checker. When Omar Minaya called Mark Shapiro about Bartolo Colon, Tony LaCava handpicked the prospects the Indians would receive.

Minaya started dealing with an organization that he knew had detailed inside knowledge of his prospects. Isn't that stupid or arrogant? That should have disqualified him from further consideration for future GM positions immediately in the minds of any thinking club presidents.
   6. BringBackTimTeufel Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:15 PM (#3374692)
That should have disqualified him from further consideration for future GM positions immediately in the minds of any thinking club presidents.

Now where do you see one of those in Queens??
   7. JJ1986 Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:58 PM (#3374739)
That would make LaCava one of the best talent identifiers in the game.
   8. Mike Emeigh Posted: November 02, 2009 at 07:11 PM (#3374758)
That would make LaCava one of the best talent identifiers in the game.


He is.

-- MWE
   9. billyshears Posted: November 02, 2009 at 07:17 PM (#3374774)
Minaya started dealing with an organization that he knew had detailed inside knowledge of his prospects. Isn't that stupid or arrogant? That should have disqualified him from further consideration for future GM positions immediately in the minds of any thinking club presidents.


Well, it's not like there were lots of teams that had a Bartolo Colon sitting around ready to trade. If the Expos wanted a front line starter, there weren't too many teams Minaya could deal with.
   10. jwb Posted: November 02, 2009 at 07:37 PM (#3374795)
Isn't there enough movement among front office people that the personnel in any one front office will have worked in several others?

For example, the 2007 NL East (2007 because that when BA's Executive database stops, NL East because it includes Minaya), front office people had worked in other front offices in the previous five years:

Phillies:
GM Pat Gillick, various posts, Sea, 2000-05
Sp Asst Charlie Kerfeld, Sp Asst, Tex, 2006

Mets:
GM Omar Minaya, GM, Mon, 2002-04
Sp Asst Sandy Johnson, various posts, AZ 1998-2004
MiL Ops Adam Wogan, Pl Dev, Mon/Was, 2000-05

Braves:
None

Nationals:
GM Jim Bowden, GM, Cin, 1993-2003
AGM Mike Rizzo, Dir Scouting, Az, 2000-06

Perhaps this is a lousy sample, but most of these have links to two other organizations. This is less than I would have thought.
   11. rlc Posted: November 02, 2009 at 07:58 PM (#3374822)
This is less than I would have thought

Is it because you left out 20% of the teams in the division?
   12. RJ in TO Posted: November 02, 2009 at 08:22 PM (#3374854)
Well, it's not like there were lots of teams that had a Bartolo Colon sitting around ready to trade. If the Expos wanted a front line starter, there weren't too many teams Minaya could deal with.


It's also not like Minaya had any incentive at all to care about Expos prospects, since neither he or the team were likely to be there much longer. To him, his focus had to be on making the Expos look as good as possible, and not on caring how they'd look under some new owner in some new city with some other GM in the chief role.
   13. fra paolo Posted: November 02, 2009 at 08:39 PM (#3374873)
To him, his focus had to be on making the Expos look as good as possible, and not on caring how they'd look under some new owner in some new city with some other GM in the chief role.

Is that a recommendation? Choose a senior management guy because he made a stupid long-term decision in order to make his resumé look good? Not to me. Not the kind of personality I'd want in my organization.

As for not having alternatives to Colon, if he'd had any sense he should have bargained harder with the Indians in those circumstances, since he knew they had inside information. Since he traded Colon on for Orlando Hernandez, Rocky Biddle and Jeff Liefer, it suggests to me he's a soft touch in negotiations. But he gets 'his guy', of course.

I've actually backed Minaya's move in the past, and I still would, in theory. Minaya had good reason to sell top prospects if it raised the chance the Expos got a Wild Card spot in 2002. I just now question the wisdom of dealing with the team that had LaCava advising it.
   14. Freeballin' (Tales of Met Power) Posted: November 03, 2009 at 12:05 AM (#3375100)
To be fair, and all credit to the Indians, they really hit the jackpot on 3 prospects who were prospects, but hardly untouchables in most systems.

Sizemore was a 19 year old 3rd round draft pick who was hitting .258/.351/.348 in single A after not breaking a .756 OPS in 2 previous stops. Not even clear he'd be a major leaguer at this point. Immediately after the trade he started hitting the crap out of the ball for the next 7 years.

Lee was a legitimate pitching prospect with very good, but not outstanding peripherals. He looked like a big league starter, but not a Cy Young Award winner, and guys like that flame out all the time. Lee came pretty close himself before he righted the ship.

Phillips was really the centerpiece of that trade - by 2002, hitting .327/.380/.506 (with more walks at lower levels) as a 21 year old second baseman in AA. He looked like a star.

Colon on the other hand was regarded as an ace at the time (he won 20 in 2002), though that was usually a little more than he was -- in any event, he was very durable at the time, ate tons of innings. And he was not an impending free agent - he had a year left on his contract. To pick up a guy like that down the stretch, you generally have to pay.

The thing that made that trade look truly awful was the flip for Duque and bag of balls the next spring - but MLB forced Omar to move at that point. Was that the best he could do? I don't know, maybe.
   15. fra paolo Posted: November 03, 2009 at 12:26 AM (#3375111)
Baseball Prospectus 2002:
'Sizemore held his own in low-A ball as an 18-year-old, exhibiting tremendous plate discipline, a trait the organization is starting to emphasize. He hit only two balls out of the park, but the Expos liken him to Jim Edmonds, who didn't show much power until his early twenties.'

Baseball America ranked him 3rd among Expos prospects, and wrote 'Expos' officials are giddy with excitement when they talk about Sizemore.'

He didn't have a good first half in 2002, but you don't give up on a young prospect after one half season.

Phillips was ranked 1st among the Expos' prospects by BA, and Lee 11th

But Freeballin is right that none of these guys were 'untouchables'. Minnesota's #3 was Michael Cuddyer, the Yankees' Brandon Claussen, the Reds' Wily Mon Pena. All those systems were overall rated ahead of Montréal's. And Sizemore could easily have turned out, in prospect terms, as much a hit or miss as any of those three.

In the circumstances, though, you have to think Minaya overpaid to 'get his guy', dealing with an organization that had better knowledge of his system than he did in the hope of padding his resumé. It makes him a questionable GM hire to me, and reflects badly on the Mets' ability to judge GM talent.
   16. Freeballin' (Tales of Met Power) Posted: November 03, 2009 at 12:33 AM (#3375116)

He didn't have a good first half in 2002, but you don't give up on a young prospect after one half season.


Again, I didn't say he'd played his way out of the profession. Only that he hadn't exactly set the farm on fire.
   17. Something Other Posted: November 03, 2009 at 03:56 AM (#3375625)
Again, I didn't say he'd played his way out of the profession. Only that he hadn't exactly set the farm on fire.


True. Setting the farm on fire is Minaya's job.

TFA does a good job, too, of noting that Minays's 2006 is generally overrated. I usually give Omar "yeah, but..." credit for a strong offseason back then. Now I've got one more thing to #### on him about.
   18. Something Other Posted: November 03, 2009 at 09:18 AM (#3375943)
Priorities:

1) Helluva starting pitcher
2) Helluva corner OF or 1Bman
3) Durable, middle of the rotation guy
4) A real, starting catcher
5) Replacing Castillo
6) League average for the position guy for a position not filled by 2), above
7) League average for the position guy for the position not filled by 2) and 6), above

I'd be perfectly happy getting the first four presents on my kwanzaa list and letting the rest go, even if the budget requires gambling on injury risks for those slots whose upside is what I described. Anything's better than filling out the roster with some name mediocrities and spending the season battling with the Marlins for third place.

My best guess is the Mets will make a real push for Holliday and if they get him settle for Marquis for the rotation and maybe a catcher to back up Santos, who really should be the AAA catcher.
   19. jwb Posted: November 04, 2009 at 07:55 AM (#3377043)
Is it because you left out 20% of the teams in the division?
D'oh!

Marlins
GM Larry Beinfest, AGM, Mon, 2000-01
AGM Mike Hill, Dir PD, Col, 2000-02
AGM Dan Jenning, Dir Scout, TB, 1998-2002
DPD Jim Fleming, Dir Scout, Mon, 1998-2001
ADS Gregg Leonard, ADir Scout, Mon, 1994-2001

A bunch of ex-Expos. Imagine that.
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