"I never read that. Somebody wrote that it was my favorite book. I never even read it [laughs]."

You aren't missing anything, Milton.

And our troops’ll be home from Iraq. And terrorism won’t be as much of a threat.

I don't know if he meant it this way, but terrorism will be less of a threat if we take our troops out of the Middle East.

"He definitely had a lot of potential. He was a person of intense passion. He wrote thought-provoking lyrics."

Like almost all rappers credited with writing something meaningful, Tupac Shakur is highly overrated. Almost all of his lyrics are flat out terrible and vulgar and vacuous. I liked a couple of his raps, and I suppose it's possible if you are overly generous to credit a small number of his works as being thoughtful, but on the whole they are just base idiocy. Here are some examples of his typical writing:

Ha ha ha...f*ck all y'all...f*ck all y'all...I don't need nobody
F*ck 'em...F*ck all y'all

Money gone f*ck friends
I need a homie that know me
when all these muthafuckin' cops be on me
I got problems ain't nobody calling back
now what the f*ck is happenin' with my ballin' cats
Remember me I'm ya homie that was down to brawl
Sippin' Hennessy hanging with the clowns and
all we used to do is drink brew, screw and common knew
we had b*tches by the dozens oh we f*ckin' cousins
You can throw ya middle finger if ya feel me loc
a nigga just got paid and we still was broke
It took time but finally the cash was mine
all the rewards of a hustler stuck in the grind
Look around and all I see is snakes and faces
like scavengers waitin' to take a hustler's pape's
and when you stuck where the f*ck is all ya friends
They straight busted and can't be trusted f*ck y'all

[Chorus]
F*ck all y'all [2x]

This is a different tune with a similar quality:

You a what? Bad Boy Killaz
(That's right b*tch, F*ck em' all)
Hahaha yeah nigga, f*ck em' all
(That's right b*tch, F*ck em' all)
F*ck all you muthaf*ckers
Ay Yo Biggie Put your hands up

Now I can make it happen
My rappin' is similar to muthaf*ckers
When they scrappin'
Blast and watch em' back up
Notorious biggie killer
Affiliation with death row
Niggaz get their caps pealed back
Fool this the west coast
F*ck a misdemeanor I'm raisin hell like felonies
Mr. Makaveli straight outta jail to sellin' these
Intoxicated we duplicated but never faded
Now that we made it my adversaries is player hatin'
Got a Mercedes for these tricks
That thought I quit
Then got a drop top jag for these b*tches that's on my dick
Go to a club in a pack
I'm smokin' bud in the back
I wait for niggaz to trip
Cause b*tch I love to scrap
Now mama raised me as a thug nigga
With love niggaz
I'm a millionaire started as a drug dealer
I went from rocks to zines
Writing raps and movies
I went from trustin'' these tricks now they all want to sue me
So F*ck em' all

[Chorus]

(That's right b*tch, F*ck em' all)
(Young Noble) Come put your hands up in the air, it's a middle finger affair, yeah
(That's right b*tch, F*ck em' all)

And here's yet another entry in the Tupac pantheon:

Niggaz.. f*ckin wit the wrong nigga..

My seductive introduction be specific, still elusive
but exclusive's what I give you when I kick it, and I'm still lifted
Niggaz can't get with Mr. Wicked
Picture me flippin my adversaries, gettin the dick swiftly
Niggaz are swingin wild, but they styles miss me
You can bring that b*tch but ya whole click'll still get treated shitty
Business never personal (?) before (?) up on thai
Just a ghetto star, a dropped up double-R is what I'm ridin
Nigga, if you was half the man yo' b*tch was, bring you artillery
when you come for me, cause we sick thugs
No hesitation when I pull and blast, cause Syke was bustin
plus, Bow had 'em duckin, screamin, "Get they cash!"
So now I got the law on me, my phone's tapped
So I had to send word through my lil' homies
Tell them niggaz this the year when they pull the trigger
####, this is what you get, for f*ckin, wit the wrong nigga..
This is what you get, when you f*ckin wit the wrong nigga..
Hehehehe, yeah nigga, peep it

Before I lay me down to sleep I, pray and thank the Lord
for givin me another fruitful, dayyy
I wanna be a peaceful man but still when niggaz come for me
all I can see is gettin 'em, killed
For real it's how I feel, reflect my thoughts, flowin on these reels
Make my enemies deal with my steel, they caps peeled
We still cool but you played yourself
Give him the mac and make him spray hisself, heyyy
Fallin legends clutchin chrome three-five-seven
Puttin two bullets to they dome, wanted to die in heaven
Why call in shots nobody really as clear as me
Ain't tryin to help the feds get a case for conspiracy
Murder my foes get disposed of
We all homies to the death, so my true niggaz show me love
God forgive me for my lifestyle, a negative figure
But why they f*ckin wit the wrong nigga, y'know?
It's like..
Why you f*ckin wit the wrong nigga..

Separate the music from the lyrics and they lose all meaning.

MB just lost half his support at BBTF with the Rand revelation.

I assume Bradley's brand of dominoes isn't Texas 42.

2Pac made a range of music. You can pick out different things. He wrote aggressive lyrics, he wrote calm lyrics, he wrote about urban poverty, he wrote about flashy lifestyles. Picking out some of his lyrics that you think are negative doesn't mean he didn't write thought-provoking lyrics - because he did.

Come listen to my truest thoughts, my truest feelings
On my peers doin years behind drug dealing -
How many caskets can we witness,
Before we see it's hard to live this life without God
So we must ask forgiveness?
Ask mama why I got this urge to die?
Witness the tears falling free from my eyes before she could reply,
Cos we were born without a silver spoon,
My broken down TV showed cartoons in my living room (hey!)
One day I hope to make it, a player in this game,
Mama don't cry, as long as we try maybe things change,
Perhaps just a fantasy?
A life where we don't need no welfare, we share with our whole family.
Maybe it's me that caused it, the fighting and the hurting
In my room crying because I didn't want to be a burden,
Watch mama open up her arms to hug me,
And I ain't worried about a damn thing
With unconditional love

Just got the message, you've been calling all week,
Been out here hustling on the streets, ain't had a chance to speak,
But you know, with you and me it's all G,
We could never be enemies (no!)
Cos you've been such a good friend to me
Where would I be without my dogs?
No wonder why when times get hard, cos it aint easy bein who we are
Driven by my ambitions desire higher positions,
So I proceed to make g's eternally,
And my mission is to be more than just a rap musician -
The elevation of today's generation, if I could make 'em listen,
Prison ain't what we need, no longer stuck in greed
Time to plan, strategise, my family's gotta eat -
We're making something out of nothing,
No pleasure in this suffering neighborhood,
Would be good if they could cut out all the busting,
The liquor and the weed, the cussing,
Sending love out to my block, the struggle never stops

Alternatively

I hear Brenda's got a baby, but Brenda's barely got a brain,
A damn shame, the girl can hardly spell her name.
(That's not our problem, that's up to Brenda's family...)
Well let me show you how it affects the whole community.
Now Brenda really never knew her moms and her dad was a junky,
Went in death to his arms, it's sad, cos I bet Brenda doesn't even know
Just cause your in the ghetto doesn't mean you can't grow.
But oh, that's a thought, my own revelation,
Do whatever it takes to resist the temptation,
Brenda got herself a boyfriend, her boyfriend was her cousin,
Now lets watch the joy end.
She tried to hide her pregnancy from her family,
Who didn't really care to see, or give a damn if she
Went out and had a church of kids,
As long as when the check came they got first dibs.
Now Brenda's belly is getting bigger,
But no one seems to notice any change in her figure,
She's 12 years old and she's having a baby,
In love with the molester, who's sexing her crazy.
And yet she thinks that he'll be with her forever,
And dreams of a world where the two of them are together -
Whatever.
He left her and she had the baby solo, she had it on the bathroom floor,
And didn't know. So she didn't know what to throw away and what to keep.
She wrapped the baby up and threw him in the trash heap.
I guess she thought she'd get away, wouldn't hear the cries...
She didn't realise how much the the little baby had her eyes.
Now the baby's in the trash heap bawling,
Momma can't help her, but it hurts to hear her calling.
Brenda wants to run away, momma says, you're making me lose pay,
The social worker's here every day.
Now Brenda's gotta make her own way,
Can't go to her family, they won't let her stay.
No money, no babysitter, she couldn't keep a job,
She tried to sell crack, but ended up getting robbed.
So now what's next, there ain't nothing left to sell,
So she sees sex as a way of leaving hell.
It's paying the rent, so she really can't complain,
Prostitute, found slain, and Brenda's her name.
She's got a baby

I have used Tupac, and other rappers, as demo lessons in teacher training programs, for various purposes. I second what Alou says. The stuff Rich labels as "base idiocy" is part of a larger picture and context.

I didn't really listen to Tupac -- but based on the lyrics Rich posted above, I can safely say he had more to say than Ayn Rand.

I can safely say he had more to say than Ayn Rand.

Well, I guess it's like Isaiah Berlin's fox and the hedgehog, then.

For whatever reason, I never got into Tupac. I was listening to the Coup, Kool G Rap, and early Ice Cube (who is horribly uneven--sometimes poisonously racist, sometimes thoughtful, sometimes both.)

But I had so many people I deeply respected who loved Tupac so deeply, I had faith there was more to him than the few tracks I had heard.

I still don't see him as a prophet, but I've seen how "Brenda's got a baby" affects students and gets them talking and thinking on issues that abstinence only crap literature sure doesn't.

But everyone's got their own perspective, and that's fine. I just get the feeling that Rich is speaking from not having any idea what's out there in hip-hop, which is unfortunate.

MB just lost half his support at BBTF with the Rand revelation.

He probably picked some up, too.

I'm not a rap fan at all, but "Brenda's Got a Baby" is quite powerful stuff...

$4/gallon? That's what you guys pay? Jesus, what a bargain.

MB just lost half his support at BBTF with the Rand revelation.

If a baseball player loses support/respect because of an author he likes to read... I don't think that shines too kindly on BBTF.

Heh.

Tupac is the most overrated rapper ever. Yes, he had some songs that I suppose were meaningful, but as far as skills and lyricism and things of that nature...I don't see what the big deal is. Eminem, Biggie, Jay-Z, Joe Budden, Lupe Fiasco, Andre 3000...they're all superior rappers and the last 4 all have a decent catalog of thought provoking music.

I just get the feeling that Rich is speaking from not having any idea what's out there in hip-hop

That is true. I don't pretend otherwise. However, every time someone has told me so-and-so rapper is a great lyricist, and I've read his lyrics, I've found little to be inspired by. I actually do like Tupac's music -- some of it, anyhow. But am I familiar with all of his tunes and there are very few which are not pathetically vulgar and uninspiring.

I've seen how "Brenda's got a baby" affects students and gets them talking and thinking on issues that abstinence only crap literature sure doesn't.

If that's the case, then the rap works on a level I wasn't considering. That said, "Brenda's got a baby" always struck me as the rapper's version of the cliche Afternoon Movie Special. It's also, for Tupac, not musically very good.

By the way... I feel pretty much the same about almost all so-called profound rock music. (I'm a fan of rock music much more than rap.) Most of it, when read, just isn't anything profound.) I suspect that the very best rock lyricists could write good poetry if that was their desire, but they compromise in order to fit the music and make a sellable record. And that's the way it should be. Just don't tell me that great lyrics, when read, are great poetry. Once in a long while they are (though often those tunes aren't all that great IMO). "Who killed Davy Moore" is, I think, profound. But is that a great song? It doesn't really Light My Fire.

It doesn't really Light My Fire.

Well, When The Music's Over, I guess this is The End.

Are the Rangers going to trade Bradley? Seems like a no-brainer to trade him since they're not exactly in position to beat the Angels this year. Even if they want to keep him for 2009+, he's a FA after this year and they could get him back.

For rap give me J-Dila, MF Doom/Madvillain, Heiroglyphics/Deltron 3030, The Roots, A Tribe Called Quest, Prefuse 73, Jedi Mind Tricks over anything mentioned so far.

#### the Roots and Tribe and Common and all that other nerd rap (except Mos Def, Talib Kweli, and Kool Keith (and maybe MF Doom)).

Anyway, I'm not a huge Tupac fan (you want lyrical dexterity, look to GZA, Inspectah Deck (hell, much of the Wu-Tang Clan) and Nas), but I always liked this lyric:

Dear Lord if ya hear me, tell me why
Little girl like LaTasha, had to die
She never got to see the bullet, just heard the shot
Her little body couldn't take it, it shook and dropped
And when I saw it on the news I see busta girl killin 'Tasha
Now I'm screamin #### the world, in the end
it's my friends, that flip-flop
Lip-locked on my dick when my #### drop
Thug Life ############ I lick shots
Every nigga on my block dropped two cops
Dear Lord can ya hear me, when I die
Let a nigga be strapped, ###### up, and high
with my hands on the trigger, Thug nigga
Stressin like a ############ drug dealer
And even in the darkest nights, I'm a Thug for Life
I got the heart to fight now
Mama raised a hellraiser why cry
That's just life in the ghetto, do or die

That's from Hellrazor off of his 2nd posthumous album (Makaveli being the first, though that was completed before he died). Looking at it on the page, it doesn't look like Milton, but when he says "thug life ############" with such emotion, such comparisons seem to miss the point. Just thinking about that line gives me chills, it's like he distilled all the pain of every thing that ever went wrong for him into that one line, which is why, I think, his music resonates with so many people. It's the emotion, not so much the specific words.

Part of the problems with parsing rap lyrics is that most sources on the web have many of the lyrics wrong.

MB just lost half his support at BBTF with the Rand revelation.

He probably picked some up, too.


Ding ding ding ding we have a winner!


BTW Shooty I got the DVDs, thanks! I just need to get the first two seasons now and I can watch it. ;-)

Now mama raised me as a thug nigga

Sure, blame it on your mother.

Cool, Lassus. Enjoy. You should be able to get the first two seasons pretty cheap. Virgin has them for $29 when they have them in stock.

However, every time someone has told me so-and-so rapper is a great lyricist, and I've read his lyrics, I've found little to be inspired by.

They weren't written to be read, they were written to be performed and heard.

What makes Tupac special is his flow and the emotional density of his delivery, capturing a pretty incredible, and ultimately pretty contradictory span of feeling in the way he inflects his words.

Evaluating Tupac's lyrics by reading them on the internet out of context is a very bad way to evaluate him as an artist.

Part of the problems with parsing rap lyrics is that most sources on the web have many of the lyrics wrong.

I've noticed that on subtitled DVD's as well. I don't remember the words that were on my screen, but they sure as heck weren't "you call me a friend, but you only want my ends, and I'd never see you if I had no loot"

Evaluating Tupac's lyrics by reading them on the internet out of context is a very bad way to evaluate him as an artist.

That's fair, as long as his fans confine themselves to describing them as performance art a la a typical open mike night at the Nuyorican or something.

However, when his followers talk about him as a poet, it's also fair to parse his lyrics as poetry.

I also agree with Rich Rifkin that parsing any popular music as poetry is a recipe for derision.