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Boston Globe blog
Everything else seems like a good and commensurate reaction, and hopefully ends this idiocy. Lots of losers, no winners.
EDIT: I don't know what Jackson's offense was, so I can't say fairly that I know that was the right call. Probably is, though, lots of people were bringing the jackassery last night.
I think Gomes should be more than anyone else, but 5 is pretty stiff, I guess.
Not Gomes should have gotten more. So should Crawford. Both were as bad as Crisp if not worse.
Lester getting anything is a joke.
Crisp probably should have gotten more as well.
I think coco crisp should consider himself lucky that was all he got.
I agree. I actually thought it was funny that Crisp charged, got tackled by Navarro, and then got beat on by Gomes, Crawford, and Iwamura. It wasn't as if Crisp was attacked for no reason. Once he charged the pitcher, all bets were off, and the team should protect the pitcher.
Almost never in a mound-charging situation do the rest of the players simply sit back and allow the pitcher and batter to go at it. This isn't a case of "this is their fight, let's let men be men" crap.
And really, charging the mound is really stupid in the first place.
1) When does the batter ever really kick the crap out of the pitcher? If anything, he'll get one or two punches in before getting swarmed by the catcher and infielders.
2) The mound-charger is absolutely guaranteed a suspension, while the pitcher may or may not get one, and even if he does, what will he lose? One start? Maaaybe two?
3) It's one thing if the pitcher is retaliating for HRs or celebrations, but another if the manager and unwritten rules demand it because of something else (like the baserunning incident that led to this). It isn't as if it's really the pitcher's fault alone. Sure, that may be hard to consider when you've just been nailed with a pitch, but still...
Evidence?
I'm pretty sure that Gomes would've repeatedly punched Coco, whether Coco was restrained or not.
Someone tells me i'm losing 11 grand and it's a joke I'd give him a good reason to suspend me.
They weren't protecting their pitcher. Coco was on the ground and had no chance to get near Shields. Coco got a lot worse than most guys who charge the mound, Robin Ventura excepted.
Off-day Monday.
Bump another guy up a day, and that guy's still pitching on normal rest. Lester then pitches with an extra day's rest.
Coco got a lot worse than most guys who charge the mound, Robin Ventura excepted.
I love that Robin Ventura video. I watch it at least twice a week.
Bartlett outweighs Iwamura by 4 pounds. It's not like Crisp slid into LF to go after a much smaller guy.
I asked for evidence that Maddon ordered it.
Because, quite frankly, I find the notion that any manager would have to order it to be completely ludicrous.
Because the video clearly shows him hitting a batter? It's much easier to infer that someone acted intentionally based on their own actions than the actions of a third party.
I don't know what Maddon said. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't "It's ok Aki. Tomorrow I will order Shields hit hit Crisp the first time though the lineup".
Well if Sutcliffe implied it, it must be true.
Exactly. Coco had no chance to get near Shields... because he was lying on the ground getting punched. The <strike>Devil</strike> Rays were being proactive.
I suppose Gomes gets less than Crisp because he wasn't one of the original antagonists, but I find his actions the most punishment-worthy of all: jumping into someone else's fight with fists flying rather than attempting to pull the combatants apart and repeatedly punching someone whom one of your teammates is pinning to the ground is pretty chickenshit.
Hahaha. Cos he's Jonny ####### Gomes. Its what he does.
Not condoning anything that happened (I haven't seen it) but I love that mental image there. Gomes is a crazy, hardnosed dude - a ballplayer's ballplayer, if you want to hear a cliche. I can completely picture him jumping in there like some dude out of the movie 300.
edit: adding on
Mediocre player but I ###### love him
Given the conxtext in which the plunking occurred, its rather surprising that Lester wasn't ejected immediately. And the same could be said for Shields plunking Pedroia the first time through.
Sad, but true. Seeing as he really only plays against lefties at this point anyways, this suspension will hit him the softest of any of the non-pitchers involved, fairly or not.
You mean go back and listen to the audio of Sutcliffe speculating on what he thought a manager might tell a player in such a situation...numbbrain.
And being an ex-mlb player qualifies him as a lip-reader? You're grasping at straws.
You are nearing 30,000 posts on this site, and have developed quite an online rep for yourself in the process. Lecture someone else about being a jackoff geek with a keyboard. And get a life when you get a chance.
And again, I don't see how Sutcliffe's knowledge of the game, which I readily admit is vastly superior to mine, is relevant in determining what Maddon said to Iwamura between the 8th and 9th inning a few nights ago. Absent an audio recording, or video evidence, he was just speculating, as he is paid to do.
Of course. Because if I've learned anything by reading this site, it's that ex-players are infallible in thought and action. Everything they say must be taken as gospel, and should be used as hard evidence for the league office when meting out punishment.
You just keep on winning, kevin. Because you're a real winner. You're made of fine, hand-spun win, you are.
Glass houses Kevin, glass houses. You start more trouble and take more inane positions than anyone on this site and you do it with regularity, plus you never show the slightest shred of objectivity or reason when it comes to the Red Sox. You're pretty much the last person here that could hurl childish insults at people without looking like an utter hypocrite. Colin is somewhat incorrect though, it's not just things involving the Red Sox that you have an inferiority complex about. It's actually rather disappointing, from what I've gathered on here about your job you are obviously a genuinely bright person but you seem utterly unable to bring those mental gifts to bear on reasonable and civilized discourse here.
I think Lester should have appealed, but I guess if he won't miss a start as mentioned above then it's no big deal. The rest got what they deserved, although I didn't see exactly what Edwin Jackson did to warrant the ban, but I'll trust MLB on that one. Coco deserved the largest suspension, seeing as how he was the original instigator and then could have avoided the main mess by not charging the mound and letting it be one of those harmless bench clearing non-fights. His statements to the media after both games didn't help his cause.
The Rays deserve their punishments if for no other reason than being dumb enough to get their 2nd best pitcher tossed in the 2nd inning of a big game. It's not like the Rays weren't going to see Crisp again later in the season if they were hellbent on hitting him, or at least later in the game with a scrub like Glover or Howell on the mound. Maddon deserved a few games, but the manager suspension is pretty pointless since he still ends up calling the shots from the clubhouse or remotely via cell phone.
Agreed, though I'd probably sub Hammel for Howell. Howell has been surprisingly effective in long relief this year.
Eh? That's a pretty damn harsh way to refer to the guy who has been critical in the Rays winning several different games this season, he has come up a big a bunch of times in a variety of situations.
It's not like Shields is a scrub pitcher...
Jim - have your thoughts changed on Edwin Jackson yet? You were harsh on him in a manner we reserve for Julio Lugo earlier on in the season.
Which plunking? Crawford? The context there was that the pitch was a curveball. Which would make Carl Crawford the first player in the history of baseball to have been hit intentionally with a breaking ball.
Iwamura? The context there was that he got "plunked" on a 3-2 count with a runner already on base. And by plunked, you must mean barely grazed.
The strongest case for malicious intent on the part of Lester was the pitch he threw behind Aybar. Which the umpires did not find so objectionable as to eject Lester. I think you're manufacturing intent where there is none. Lester does not have superb control. This is not news.
Willie Wilson destroyed Ken Schrom in 1987, but only via misdirection. (He trotted to first on a flyout, then dropped his shoulders and football-charged into Schrom's back.)
Since the only other plunkee victories I can think of were similarly flukish-- either via pitcher inattention (Mike Sweeney-Jeff Weaver), or surprise kung fu skills (George Bell, Izzy Alcantara)-- I think the above general principle is sound.
/end Jim rocks rant
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