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Thursday, June 05, 2008

AP: Benches clear after Coco Crisp hit by James Shields

Boston center fielder Coco Crisp was hit on the right hip by Tampa Bay right-hander James Shields, prompting a benches-clearing brawl in the second inning of their game Thursday night.

Crisp dropped his bat, charged the mound, ducked a wild right by Shields before throwing a few punches before being tackled to the ground by catcher Dioner Navarro.

Rays DH Jonny Gomes charged the mound from the dugout, jumped on Navarro and Crisp and threw a few punches.
...
Shields and Crisp were both ejected. Chris Carter pinch-ran for Crisp and Grant Balfour replaced Shields.

MLB.com: Crisp, Shields involved in fracas (with video)
If that wasn’t enough excitement, Manny Ramirez and Kevin Youkilis got into it in the dugout.

NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:07 PM | 165 comment(s)
Related News: General, Boston, Tampa Bay

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1. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:10 PM (#2808265)

Tampa Tribune blog:

There have been some pretty good brawls between the Rays and Red Sox in the past. The Pedro Martinez-Gerald Williams beanball war of 2000 was the king until today.
...
Leading off the bottom of the second inning, Red Sox CF Coco Crisp took a pitch from James Shields off his right thigh. Crisp took one step toward first base, then flipped his bat and ripped off his helmet before sprinting toward Shields on the mound.

Shields flipped his hat off and loaded up for a big roundhouse right. Crisp saw the punch coming and dodged it. He then threw a counter-punch right that caught Shields on the right shoulder.

Dioner Navarro grabbed Crisp and muscled him to the ground near the pitching rubber. Meanwhile, Johnny Gomes led the charge out of Tampa Bay’s dugout and started punching Crisp while Navarro lay on top of him. As the mob gathered around the mound, Akinori Iwamura came in and took a jab at Crisp. Carl Crawford flew in from left field and managed to squeeze in a few blows on Crisp’s head.

Meanwhile, as both bullpens emptied, Julio Lugo looked for someone to grab and hold and found Evan Longoria just off the mound. Red Sox third base coach DeMarlo Hale tackled Shields hard to the ground. Rays third base coach Tom Foley somehow got in the middle of things and appeared to be injured. Eventually, Crisp managed to free himself of Navarro’s grip and crawled out of the pile—through the legs of pitching coach Jim Hickey.

At one point, Red Sox reliever Mike Timlin actually gave one of the Rays a hug. It looked like bench coach Dave Martinez.

2. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:17 PM (#2808273)

Hopefully the suspensions will be many and lengthy.

And I don't just say that because my team is in the AL East.

3. birdlives (just name the place!) Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#2808319)

You can watch a clip of the fight on the gameday box.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_06_05_tbamlb_bosmlb_1&mode=gameday

Just click on the video tab and then click on "Ray-Sox Incident".

4. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:35 PM (#2808333)

The NESN announcers, in the clip, are surprised Crisp charged the mound, since Shields only plunked him in the hip, and didn't try and go high and tight.

Of course, the one NESN announcer also wonders if Shields will get ejected from the game for HBP - apparently not remembering Shields was throwing punches :P

5. birdlives (just name the place!) Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:42 PM (#2808348)

The momentum between Coco charging and Shields' punch probably would have been brutal if the punch landed. And it looks like Gomes wasn't the only one going to town on Coco.

6. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:46 PM (#2808360)

Crisp is a trained boxer, so he didn't duck that punch by accident.

7. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:49 PM (#2808369)

Shields telegraphed that punch from a mile away. I think even Dmitri Young could have ducked it.

8. birdlives (just name the place!) Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2808375)

When did karate kicks go out of style?

9. number5_pulse Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#2808383)

If only the Sox had held onto Izzy Alcantara...

10. aleskel

Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2808389)

man, on top of the Navarro tackle, Coco took a couple of shots from Gomes, Crawford, and Iwamura (?!!). That's quite a beatdown.

11. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 06:59 PM (#2808393)

Yea, but he took it like a G. Coco earned some major points tonight. He had big words last night and he didn't back down tonight.

12. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:00 PM (#2808394)

and Iwamura (?!!)

Iwamura presumably wanted some revenge for getting taken out last night.

Mass ejections in a game like this do lead to the amusing sights of things like Chris Carter (considered defensively challenged at 1B) in LF. An outfield of Carter-Drew-Youkilis is probably not what a pitcher wants lined up behind him.

13. aleskel

Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:03 PM (#2808401)

Iwamura presumably wanted some revenge for getting taken out last night.

ah, forgot about that (Coco said he was going for Bartlett, which threw me off). Still, those were some rabbit punches, which is pretty funny.

14. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:11 PM (#2808419)

updated Tampa Tribune blog:

(UPDATE, 8:04 p.m.)
Carl Crawford was just hit on the right elbow by a Jon Lester pitch. CC didn’t look too pleased, but he headed on down to first.

Also, before the inning, Manny appeared to get into a shouting match with Kevin Youkilis in the Red Sox dugout. Manny appeared to try to get at Youkilis and was pulled away by two non-playing personnel and Tim Wakefield. Youkilis walked out to right field (he entered the game when Jacoby Ellsbury injured his right wrist in the fourth) and was muttering the whole way.

This is, without a doubt, the most bizarre game of the season.

15. birdlives (just name the place!) Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:12 PM (#2808421)

Albert Belle would have brought his bat with him. And that was one ugly punch by Shields. It looks like it was heading for the top of Coco's head.

16. Dinner With Frenchy Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:14 PM (#2808425)

The Cereal Killer?!

17. Darren

Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:14 PM (#2808426)

Gomes needs to be suspended for a long time. He was wailing on Coco while Navarro was holding him down. Maybe Iwamura too. Look for Watson to blow this somehow, of course.

I really disagree with the notion that Coco could have ended this if he just went to the mound. Of course it would be over, but you can't just let guys obviously throw at you whenever they feel like it. Would have been interesting to see if Shields got tossed without the brawl. Didn't look like he would be.

18. Justin T Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:14 PM (#2808427)

I'm surprised Shields hit Crisp. Usually righthanded pitchers only throw at righthanded hitters. They don't have to throw across their bodies to hit other righties.

19. John DiFool2 Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:16 PM (#2808430)

Good news for the Sox is that Carter is now 2 for 2. Maybe his kindly manager can remember that he murders righties, in a manner rather dissimilar to Coco Crisp...

20. birdlives (just name the place!) Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:17 PM (#2808434)

The Cereal Killer?!

I guess you could call Navarro, Gomes, and Aki snap, crackle, and pop.

21. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:20 PM (#2808439)

Carl Crawford was hit on a curveball, FWIW.

22. Darren

Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:31 PM (#2808465)

Temple, get the heck over to the Red Sox draft thread and fill us in.

23. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 07:32 PM (#2808466)

Too Bad. If the Rays would have just waited it out Boston would have beaten the hell out of one another.

And I don't expect Navarro to get a long suspension, as he can just claim he was trying to restrain the aggressor.

24. Rough Carrigan

Posted: June 05, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2808543)

Two over-reactions in two days for Crisp.

25. Dedicated to Esoteric but he wasn't listening Posted: June 05, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2808558)

Gomes needs to be suspended for a long time. He was wailing on Coco while Navarro was holding him down.

Grounds for a pay raise, if you ask me.

Go Rays. (Both teams that I care about suck wildly...so screw the Red Sox and Coco Crisp. Gomes and Iwamura are mensches as far as I'm concerned.

But then maybe I'm just in a bad mood.

26. OCD SS Posted: June 05, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2808588)

Mass ejections in a game like this do lead to the amusing sights of things like Chris Carter (considered defensively challenged at 1B) in LF. An outfield of Carter-Drew-Youkilis is probably not what a pitcher wants lined up behind him.

Carter was an OFer before he moved to LF becuase of an injury to his throwing shoulder. The Sox have been playing him exclusively in the OF in AAA. Ellsbury left becuase he hurt himself in teh field; it's unrelated to the dust up.

I really disagree with the notion that Coco could have ended this if he just went to the mound. Of course it would be over, but you can't just let guys obviously throw at you whenever they feel like it. Would have been interesting to see if Shields got tossed without the brawl. Didn't look like he would be.

Sheilds also hit Pedroia (another case of hitting the wrong middle infielder); I'm surprised warnings weren't issued then. I would have much prefered to have Coco take his base, and then steal 2B, and clean out whoever covers like he did last night.

27. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2808611)

Carter was an OFer before he moved to LF becuase of an injury to his throwing shoulder. The Sox have been playing him exclusively in the OF in AAA.

My point was that he's a DH moonlighting elsewhere on the diamond - even 1B is a bit of stretch for him.

28. Lassus Posted: June 05, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2808638)

Everyone involved should be forced to sit out the rest of the year and then play hockey NEXT year.

Ummmmm... what happened with Manny and Youkilis?

29. OCD SS Posted: June 05, 2008 at 09:03 PM (#2808642)

NT, I agree with your overall point, I was just trying to clear up some of the specifics. While Carter's not Carl Crawford or Coco Crisp out there (he didn't punch anybody), it's not like he's never done it. He looked like he had decent speed, so he's probably better than the Sox's regular LFer (minus the arm and knowing how to play the Monster).

30. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 09:14 PM (#2808674)

Ummmmm... what happened with Manny and Youkilis?

My current working theory is that since Ramirez didn't hit the field during the brawl until it was almost over, Youkilis probably made a comment along the lines of "The rest of the team was out there together, where were you?", which didn't go over well.

31. Srul Itza Posted: June 05, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2808684)

Manny seems to be thriving as DH. He's got his average up over .300 and his OPS up to .925.

32. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 09:17 PM (#2808685)

AP: Ramirez homers, argues with teammate in Red Sox win

Manny Ramirez homered, drove in five runs and got into a shouting match with a teammate as Boston beat Tampa Bay 7-1 Thursday night in a game that included a bench-clearing brawl between the Red Sox and Rays.

TV cameras showed Ramirez and Kevin Youkilis being separated after exchanging words in the dugout at the end of the fourth inning. Ramirez pointed at Youkilis before being escorted down the runway toward the clubhouse by trainer Paul Lessard and a few players.

The Red Sox posted their 13th straight home win, matching the majors’ longest streak in nearly two years, and completed their second three-game sweep of the Rays in just more than a month.
...
Ramirez’s right knee appeared to buckle when he took a pitch in the seventh. He continued to flex his leg after drawing a walk before leaving for pinch runner Kevin Cash one batter later.

33. Dan Posted: June 05, 2008 at 09:25 PM (#2808711)

Manny seems to be thriving as DH.

Nah, it's just that he's stopped swinging for the fences. When he was 2-3 HR short of 500, his approach at the plate went to all hell as he tried to swing for a home run every time he got ahead in the count. Since he got #500 out of the way, he's been locked in.

34. Gaelan Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:01 PM (#2808787)

If I was running the Rays a Boston player would hit the deck in every meaningless inning the rest of the season. I would call up guys from the minors just for this purpose.

35. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:02 PM (#2808792)

after the game, Coco complained that he was getting hit while he was down. I don't get it, he was the one to charge the mound. It is like complaining he got wet when he entered the shower.

Besides, in that AB he had to expect to get hit, right?

36. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:04 PM (#2808800)

If Crisp wants to blame anyone, he should either look in the mirror, or look around his own clubhouse. That Youkilis-Manny exchange was very telling.

37. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:07 PM (#2808805)

Telling of what? The Sox haven't had an incident in the dugout this decade and there is basically zero friction on the team. It sounds to me more like you have no idea what you are talking about.

38. Hector Moreda & The Generalissimo Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:09 PM (#2808813)

FWIW, Sox radio was speculating Manny could have been in the clubhouse when the brawl started, since he was up sixth that inning. Meanwhile, Youkilis' big bald head was the second Sox I recognized in the video of the brawl, and he's wound tight as a drum every game. And yeah, Youk might've said something to him about his tardiness in arriving.

All in all though, it was incredibly dumb for Sheilds to go after Coco in his first AB, and allowing the Sox to feast on the Tampa bullpen all night, and before they go to Texas and Anaheim, too.

39. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:10 PM (#2808816)

Only if the opposing manager is a horse's ass.

Virtually every manager in baseball was going to have Crisp drilled. It's one of the "unwritten rules".

40. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:12 PM (#2808822)

My only problem with anyone's actions is Coco calling the Rays players girls after the game.

41. Chip Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:17 PM (#2808838)

My only problem with anyone's actions is Coco calling the Rays players girls after the game.

Just to provide context, he said he was calling them that because they were trying to scratch his eyes while Navarro had him pinned to the ground. He had scratch marks on his face, FWIW.

42. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:22 PM (#2808852)

It sounds to me more like you have no idea what you are talking about.

This from the man who lauds Coco for starting a brawl because he "took it like a G."

43. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:28 PM (#2808871)

Just to provide context, he said he was calling them that because they were trying to scratch his eyes while Navarro had him pinned to the ground. He had scratch marks on his face, FWIW.

Yes, the ground could have also been scratching them. No doubt they were trying to hurt him, Gomes wasn't scratching, Imawura wasn't scratching, they were trying to hurt him, for taking out their middle infielder and charging their pitcher on consecutive evenings.

My favorite part of the postgame presser was Coco saying once he was tackled, the fight was over. As if everyone should just stand up and walk away. He charged the mound, he has to take the medicine.

44. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:30 PM (#2808879)

This from the man who lauds Coco for starting a brawl because he "took it like a G."

I guarantee you Coco has heightened league-wide respect after tonight.

45. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2808884)

I guarantee you Coco has heightened league-wide respect after tonight.

This isn't the NHL.

46. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2808888)

And the way that fight was going, Shields is pretty damn lucky his teammates broke it up. Coco was sticking and moving like a pro and Shields looked like his feet were stuck in cement. Coco gave up 4 inches and 35 pounds and still would have had his way with Shields.

47. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:35 PM (#2808891)

This isn't the NHL.

Athletes are athletes are athletes. Basketball isn't a contact sport, but that didn't stop the league from losing respect for Carmela Anthony when he threw a punch at Mardy Collins and then ran away.

48. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:38 PM (#2808906)

Athletes are athletes are athletes. Basketball isn't a contact sport, but that didn't stop the league from losing respect for Carmela Anthony when he threw a punch at Mardy Collins and then ran away.

Maybe this is true. But I fail to see how starting a fight, getting clobbered, and then complaining to the media that your opponent fought dirty would GAIN any respect amongst ones peers. I guess you live by a different set of rules.

49. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2808917)

Huh? He dodged a telegraph punch and hit Shields with a shot of his own on the shoulder. I doubt Miguel Cotto is worried about a new challenger.

Shields is lucky the punch didn't land because he threw with his pitching hand, which is just stupid.

50. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2808918)

He didn't get clobbered. He won the fight he started. And even if a couple of Devil Ray players took some cheap shots at him, he'll still get respect for backing up his word from the night before.

51. Gaelan Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2808919)

My favorite part of the postgame presser was Coco saying once he was tackled, the fight was over. As if everyone should just stand up and walk away. He charged the mound, he has to take the medicine.

No kidding. Coco is a little #####. The fight is completely his fault. He is the only one who should be suspended. The league won't do that because they have an asinine suspension policy but I believe that blame should be placed inequitably and in this case one person is 100% at fault and everyone else acted as they should.

Like I said next time Coco hits the deck and the ball is at his head.

52. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:42 PM (#2808923)

Telegraphed or not Crisp was running at full speed. Anyone not trained in the skill of boxing would not have been able to dodge that punch. Look how close it came to hitting him on any of the pictures that are available. Shields took the L in this one.

53. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:42 PM (#2808924)

54. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:43 PM (#2808927)

55. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:43 PM (#2808928)

He won the fight he started.

Shields looked fine to me. See post #50.

56. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:44 PM (#2808932)

Gomes should probably get the second harshest suspension of the group. It also doesn't help his cause that he's a repeat offender. He was definitely looking for trouble as much as anyone.

57. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:45 PM (#2808933)

Nah, Shields took the L. I'm sure even he would admit that.

58. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:49 PM (#2808940)

well, believe what you want, but I doubt Shields would admit that, and most impartial observers would call it a draw.

59. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:49 PM (#2808941)

Nah, Shields took the L. I'm sure even he would admit that.

I saw two guys throw punches, miss, and quickly get tackled by players from the other team. I guess if you were running Compubox stats, Crisp may have won for glancing Shield's shoulders. But most non-sociopaths would admit that BOTH of them lost for letting this situation happen.

60. Chip Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:50 PM (#2808942)

Imawura wasn't scratching

It looked like he was scraping with his hands open on one side shortly after he dove in, while Gomes was trying to throw haymakers on the other side. Crawford, meanwhile, was trying to get in little rabbit punches to the back of the head. His efforts were the most grade school playground in appearance.

61. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:56 PM (#2808973)

I am pretty sure shots to the arms and shoulders are considered blocked by compubox stats.

Imawura hit him in the ribs. then was pulled off by someone, unless he got back into the pile, he got exactly one shot off.

62. Danny Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:58 PM (#2808979)

And the way that fight was going, Shields is pretty damn lucky his teammates broke it up.

The fact that Shields was surrounded by his teammates has nothing to do with luck, and it's one of the inherent risks of charging the mound.

63. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 10:59 PM (#2808983)

And going back briefly to the newfound respect players across the league will have for Crisp...Are you really saying you'd be pleased if your teammate did this, and got suspended (as he certainly will be), knowing that injuries had already stretched your roster thin? Because, as a Rays fan, I'm pretty pissed at Shields, and would have been so even if he'd knocked Crisp out cold.

64. Biff uses the power of mental thinking Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:00 PM (#2808985)

Virtually every manager in baseball was going to have Crisp drilled. It's one of the "unwritten rules".

Well, it was incredibly dumb to do it then because of the game situation.

65. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:02 PM (#2808993)

Well, it was incredibly dumb to do it then because of the game situation.

Moreso with the Pedroia plunking, if that was intentional (I belieive it was, and the Rays homer announcers even said it was)

66. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:03 PM (#2808999)

[Chris] Carter was told by Francona after the contest that he'd be optioned back to the PawSox, making room for Brandon Moss to rejoin the team and fill a spot on Boston's radically changing outfield depth chart.

MLB.com

67. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:05 PM (#2809005)

In doling out suspensions, it should be noted that Crisp escalated things two games in a row. His late chop-block slide was significantly worse than the Tampa player blocking 2nd base with his leg, and Coco took his revenge on the wrong player. Similarly, charging the mound is a bit much given the background and the fact the pitch hit him in the thigh. However, since no one was thrown out the night before, MLB will probably focus just on the latest incident.

68. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:12 PM (#2809022)

He didn't get clobbered. He won the fight he started.

If by winning the fight you mean getting his ass beat on the bottom of a pile of DRays, you are correct.

Bartlett made a mistake when losing body control while trying to reach back across his body to take a throw. Now Coco has raised it to the current state. Can't wait to see how far it goes from here.

69. Mudpout Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:15 PM (#2809033)

So it sounds like the real loser in the fight is Chris Carter.

70. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:18 PM (#2809041)

In doling out suspensions, it should be noted that Crisp escalated things two games in a row. His late chop-block slide was significantly worse than the Tampa player blocking 2nd base with his leg, and Coco took his revenge on the wrong player. Similarly, charging the mound is a bit much given the background and the fact the pitch hit him in the thigh. However, since no one was thrown out the night before, MLB will probably focus just on the latest incident.

Is what Coco did the night before a specific violation of MLB rules, or more of an etiquette issue (similar to Bartlett's)? I don't know that it's really anything MLB should be issuing discipline over. Obviously, he should get tagged with a pretty good suspension for this one (as should Gomes, with lesser penalties to Crawford and Iwamura and anyone else acting in a non-peacekeeping capacity).

And reading a spirited debate over who won this fight makes me less ridiculous about participating in a discussion about the 2005 AL East division race earlier today.

71. Justin T Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2809047)

I don't get how anyone can think Crisp will receive accolades from his peers for this. I don't think I've ever heard a baseball player say they respect another player more when he charges the mound. I have heard them say that they respect him more when he takes a fastball to the hip the day after he does something that brings it on himself and then trots to first base and the whole thing is over with.

72. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:20 PM (#2809050)

Is what Coco did the night before a specific violation of MLB rules

Given his post-game comments last night, I'd be surprised if it were not considered. But then again, I was surprised that no pre-game warnings were given out before tonight's game.

73. dasfunk Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:20 PM (#2809053)

All the wise guys laying down smack on the Red Sox and their players, raise your hand if your team has a better record right now.

I thought so.

Guess there aren't a lot of Cubs fans here tonight.

Next.

It's amazing how much hatred is engendered by winning.

How about finding something better to do...I don't know...maybe grow some ugly 70's porn 'staches or something.

74. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:22 PM (#2809060)

Again, the only problem I have with all of this is the postgame comments.

75. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:26 PM (#2809074)

The postgame comments were the best part.

Here is a link to his post game comments

Now, maybe you only saw them in print. But he actually delivers a pretty humorous, impartial recap of what went on and he describes everything in a pretty matter-of-fact manner. I'm not sure why this would be your biggest beef.

76. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:28 PM (#2809082)

I was referring to the comments he made LAST NIGHT

77. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:30 PM (#2809092)

please, don't link to a video of Bob Ryan without warning us first.

78. Danny Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:31 PM (#2809099)

But he actually delivers a pretty humorous, impartial recap of what went on and he describes everything in a pretty matter-of-fact manner.

Those little girls tried to pull my hair and scratch my face after the fight should have been over? That's impartial?

I have no idea what actually happened at the bottom of the pile, but it seems like a stretch to assume that's an impartial account.

79. Mister High Standards Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:31 PM (#2809101)

He charged the mound, he has to take the medicine.

Wait... he is the guy who has taken the most medicine over the course of the entire situation. Careless defense buy a Bartlet very well could have resulted in a DL stint, followed by a pitcher deliberatly throwing at you. That is more medicine than anyone on the rays have taken.

I'm very disapointed in every redsox but Coco Crisp. The rest of the team acted like a bunch of pusses with sand in their viginia's. Gomes should get one in the ####### ear... well thats harsh and I guess I don't mean it. ####### thug.

80. Matt Welch Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:31 PM (#2809100)

All the wise guys laying down smack on the Red Sox and their players, raise your hand if your team has a better record right now.

My hand is raised, even though I wasn't moved to "lay down smack" about what a douchesack Coco Crisp is until I saw your elementary school post. Huzzah, masswipe!

81. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:36 PM (#2809113)

alright, here are his full comments. Which are not as bad as the snippet I saw. I still say comparing the Rays to women is not really putting the situation to rest.

Why he is saying it is between him and Shields, I have no idea.

82. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:37 PM (#2809117)

Wait... he is the guy who has taken the most medicine over the course of the entire situation. Careless defense buy a Bartlet very well could have resulted in a DL stint, followed by a pitcher deliberatly throwing at you. That is more medicine than anyone on the rays have taken.

You left out the part where he spiked Iwamura, and bragged to reporters post-game about how he was ready to respond "tick for tack" ala Mike Tyson. A victim he is not.

83. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:39 PM (#2809126)

On a side note, Crisp has used the phrase "it is what it is" on two consecutive nights. That alone makes me hate the guy.

84. SJ and the pants of freedom. Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:39 PM (#2809129)

0. Mister High Standards Posted: March 14, 2008 at 09:22 AM (#2712605)

Rich, let me explain to your feeble brain the difference between the Johnson play and the Duncan play.

The Johnson play, was made in an attempt to show the higher ups that he will lay his body on the line for the teams chance to win. Which is the exact same reason why the "promising young catcher" was blocking the plate. If it is Posada and Carlos Pena you likely don't see that.

The Duncan play was done with the intent to injury. Period. I wouldn't say that nearly as strongly if 1) Duncan didn't come out in the press and run his mouth. 2) Didn't attempt to "stretch" on a play where there was ZERO chance he would actually be safe and CLEARLY only wanted the chance to mame.

Johnson, should be patted on the back. So should the "promising young catcher". Duncan should be suspended for 40 games.

Whats the difference between the Crisp play last night, and the Duncan play earlier in the year? Besides the symbol on their cap?

85. NTNgod Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:44 PM (#2809148)

followed by a pitcher deliberatly throwing at you

In the side. It's not like Shields went head-hunting.

The "unwritten rules" said Crisp had to be hit, so Shields hit him in a relatively benign location.

If Crisp had just taken his base, he wouldn't be facing suspension, and the Red Sox wouldn't be forced to play roster roulette with their outfield for the foreseeable future.

86. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:45 PM (#2809155)

Given his post-game comments last night, I'd be surprised if it were not considered. But then again, I was surprised that no pre-game warnings were given out before tonight's game.

Good point, though as I mentioned in the other thread, it was nice to see a player admit what he was doing rather than pretend it was an accident.

And while his description tonight wasn't impartial, I also wouldn't call it complaining. It seemed rather an explanation of what happened from his perspective, which is naturally going to be skewed.

87. Mudpout Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:49 PM (#2809177)

Well it seems like there are a whole lot of "proper responses" here. Crisp felt endangered by Bartlett when he slid into second, so he does a takeout slide the next time, only Iwamura ends up covering the bag. So did Crisp respond correctly there? Then Shields plunks Crisp, then Crisp charges the mound, then Navarro tackles Crisp as Shields is led away, then Gomes is throwing punches at a guy pinned on the ground. Seems for the most part like a logical, gradual progression.

88. Mr2bits Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:50 PM (#2809179)

It seemed rather an explanation of what happened from his perspective, which is naturally going to be skewed.

I agree. It's one of those things you where you need to see the interview to appreciate. In print, he comes across as whiny. On film, it's obvious he was just trying to act tough...i.e. "It's just a scratch"

89. ValueArb Posted: June 05, 2008 at 11:50 PM (#2809182)

I can't wait until Coco gets one in his ear. This isn't over, and if Tampa Bay doesn't win the east outright, they may send enough Sox to the DL to ensure they don't either.

90. We don't have dahlians at the Palace of Wisdom Posted: June 06, 2008 at 12:02 AM (#2809233)

I guarantee you Coco has heightened league-wide respect after tonight.

Well then he and Richie Sexson can console themselves with this once they're bought out of their contracts for pennies on the dollar. That's much better than being respected for the meaningless things, like say hitting a baseball.

91. CFiJ Posted: June 06, 2008 at 12:06 AM (#2809247)

Here's at least one Cubs fan who thinks Crisp acted like a world class idiot.

Bartlett drops a knee in front of the base trying to snare an errant throw from the catcher. Crisp doesn't like it, fair enough. Doesn't give him carte blanche to spike Bartlett, let alone the entirely uninvolved Iwamura. That kind of thing, you chew the guys ass out, you ##### about him to the media. You don't respond to "a little shady" with "full intent to hurt".

Regardless of all that, if he wants to go by the "unwritten rules" Crisp should have known he'd get nailed tonight after nailing Iwamura. I agree with NTNGod; every manager in MLB would have ordered that HBP. Once he clearly laid out Iwamura (and talked about it to the press afterward), by the unwritten rules he had to "take his lickin'", as he likes to put it. If it was up near his head, I could see charging the mound, but the right hip? As near as I can see the only ones properly going by the unwritten rules are the Rays, and Coco Crisp is simply running amok.

92. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 06, 2008 at 12:16 AM (#2809299)

I can't wait until Coco gets one in his ear. This isn't over, and if Tampa Bay doesn't win the east outright, they may send enough Sox to the DL to ensure they don't either.

Why should Tampa still be upset? Bartlett got his knee in the way, Crisp responded with the high slide, the Devil Rays hit Coco and Coco charged the mound but no major blows were exchanged by either side. It seems whatever balance was still owed was collected by Gomes, Iwamura and Crawford while Coco was pinned to the ground.

That seems like an overall fair exchange.

93. CFiJ Posted: June 06, 2008 at 12:40 AM (#2809339)

Why should Tampa still be upset? Bartlett got his knee in the way, Crisp responded with the high slide, the Devil Rays hit Coco and Coco charged the mound but no major blows were exchanged by either side. It seems whatever balance was still owed was collected by Gomes, Iwamura and Crawford while Coco was pinned to the ground.

That seems like an overall fair exchange.

I agree. It'd be best for all involved to just move on.

94. Lassus Posted: June 06, 2008 at 12:41 AM (#2809340)

I find this entire Coco thing boring.

What I want to see is Manny - on his way out to LF due to Coco getting suspended like a dimwit - stop at 1B and flatten Youkilis with a sharp jab before continuing out to the field.

95. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 06, 2008 at 12:48 AM (#2809344)

I'm posting just to raise my hand. I'm not really sure what my favorite team's record has to do with Crisp's actions, but those were the orders. I guess by that logic, Coco shouldn't be mouthing off about superior players like Shields.

Makes me glad that Jim Edmonds hasn't sucked with the Cubs, so we won't get stuck with the inevitable overpay trade for Crisp for no apparent reason and no apparent upgrade.

96. Milford only did it for health reasons Posted: June 06, 2008 at 01:50 AM (#2809357)

Are we really arguing who won the fight? The Rays lost 7-1. They lost the fight. By a lot.

Frankly, Coco charging the mound was pretty smart. This way, his pitcher doesn't have to drill anyone in retaliation AND he gets the Rays pitcher ejected in the 2nd inning.

This is a team that has never had even a whiff of first place's ass before, and they're stupid enough to, while locked in a battle with the team that just took first place from them, let their second best pitcher drill the, what, number 8 hitter(?) in the second inning of the game! Sheeesh.

This is a team that hates prosperity.

Coco charging the mound was smart. It gave the Red Sox a better shot at winning the game. Drilling Coco with your starter in the second inning, in what was obviously retaliation(and Shields, the moron, was even stupid enough to admit it was intentional to reporters)was stupid. Really stupid. You do that in the seventh inning or something. You don't concede the frakking game for macho nonsense.

And had Coco not charged the mound he would have placed pressure on his starter to also act like an idiot. Once again plowing into the second baseman would have just injured a second baseman and gotten Coco drilled in the fifth inning when he faced Shields again.

97. ValueArb Posted: June 06, 2008 at 02:00 AM (#2809359)

Are we really arguing who won the fight? The Rays lost 7-1. They lost the fight. By a lot.

If you think you are the best team, you don't get involved in fights like this, you have far more to lose than the lesser team. If the Ray's fall out of contention, every one of the Sox stars will have a bullseye on them the rest of the season.

Yankees's fans must be rejoicing tonight. This time it was someone else's girlie name scrub doing the bone-headed retaliatory play and endangering a team's best players.

98. NTNgod Posted: June 06, 2008 at 02:03 AM (#2809361)

BTF Red Sox fan favorite Julio Lugo, of all people, spouting off: Boston Herald

“Everybody has got to stop talking about the negative (expletive) and see the good (expletive),” said Sox shortstop Julio Lugo. “We have some injuries and we have to be a team. There’s slack to be picked up and that’s what we have to do now. That’s why we’re world champs. Print that (expletive)!”

more Boston Herald:

But televised replays showing Ramirez apparently taking a swing at Youkilis before the two were separated just before the fifth inning started caught everyone by surprise.

Details of the dispute remain under wraps for now, but the team chalked it up as just one of those things that happen in a very unordinary game. “We had a lot of testosterone going tonight,” said manager Terry Francona. “It was kind of a hectic night. Sometimes those things happen. It wasn’t really a big deal, it happens - we’ll get by that one.”

Tampa Tribune:

"Listen, I loved the way our guys reacted," Maddon said. "I thought it was tremendous. The unity that was displayed, it's part of us growing as a group. Unfortunately, we did not win the game, but I do like the fact that our guys did defend one another. I think that's great and speaks well for us. I'm very pleased with every one of them."

Shields as much as admitted he intentionally hit Crisp with a 1-0 fastball leading off the second inning.

"I'm all about protecting my players," said Shields. "I think what he did Wednesday was an absolutely dirty move. I think it's bush league and I think it's not supposed to be in the game of professional baseball. I'm out there to protect my players, no matter what the cost is. If I've got to get out in the second inning, I've got to get out in the second inning. I felt I did it the right way and he came out at me and things went down."

If the Rays win the division, I imagine this game will be pointed to in the media as a turning point in the season - the night a young roster came together as a team, or somesuch.

99. HOPE: Madison Obamagarner (Flynn) Posted: June 06, 2008 at 02:24 AM (#2809365)

This isn't over, and if Tampa Bay doesn't win the east outright, they may send enough Sox to the DL to ensure they don't either.

If? You mean when. Boston is still a clearly superior team and if we forgot, just swept the Rays pretty comfortably in three games.

If the Rays win the division, I imagine this game will be pointed to in the media as a turning point in the season - the night a young roster came together as a team, or somesuch.

Wouldn't it follow that they should, you know, win the game?

100. CFiJ Posted: June 06, 2008 at 02:29 AM (#2809368)

Wouldn't it follow that they should, you know, win the game?

No.

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