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Congrats from a Boston fan!
"Gee, I can't wait to see what Schilling has to say about this."
I was thinking the same thing! From previous posts it's obvious that Schilling (and his Sox teammates) have the utmost respect and regard for Lester after all the stuff he went through. Imagine now...
"Is ESPN really going to show this entire 10 minute hug-kkake?"
There were 2 last season, 7 in 2006....76 in 2000.
Francona sure seemed to have a special connection with Lester after the game.
4 in one decade from 4 different pitchers? a record?
Impressive? No-hitters are largely luck, so it depends how impressed you are by luck.
The no-no is certainly less likely to happen though.
I would love to claim the Nats' achievement was the more impressive of the two (especially because the Phillies have suffered only two shutouts so far this season; both were against the Nationals, and both came with Redding on the mound). But let's be honest - Lester's game was better. Redding was in trouble all night long, and were it not for a brilliant defensive play by Ryan Zimmerman saving (most likely) two runs, the final outcome would have looked much different.
Some of the Nationals' starters (Redding, Lannan) are quietly putting together impressive seasons. Tonight, however, belongs to Jon.
I missed the game, but it sounds like he was pitching beautifully-- more aggressive than he's been (or was that the Royals?).
130 pitches. Huh.
Don't forget Anibal Sanchez threw a no-no, and he was a product of the Red Sox farm system.
No. The Yankees had 5 in the 90's: Andy Hawkins, Jim Abbott, Dwight Gooden, David Wells, David Cone. Hawkins's was later de-certified, as it was an 8 IP road loss, but it counts in my book.
Pitchers speak highly of Varitek and I'm sure he does call a good game, but the biggest reason he catches no-hitters and his backups don't is because he plays so much more than they do.
Do the Sox get to count Devern Hansack's 5 IP game in 2006, then?
Bottom of the 8th, White Sox Batting, Tied 0-0, Andy Hawkins facing 6-7-8
O --- 4 56% R Karkovice Popfly: 2B
O --- 6 52% S Fletcher Popfly: 2B (Deep 2B-1B)
--- 4 55% S Sosa Reached on E5 (Ground Ball)
1-- 58% O Guillen Sosa Steals 2B
-2- 7 59% " " Walk
12- 4 63% L Johnson Walk; Sosa to 3B; Guillen to 2B
RRR 123 1 97% R Ventura Reached on E7 (Fly Ball); Sosa Scores/No RBI/unER; Guillen Scores/unER/No RBI; Johnson Scores/unER/No RBI; Ventura to 2B
R -2- 5 99% I Calderon Reached on E9 (Fly Ball to Deep CF-RF); Ventura Scores/unER; Calderon to 2B
O -2- 6 99% D Pasqua Popfly: SS
4 runs, 0 hits, 3 errors, 1 LOB. Yankees 0, White Sox 4.
Though Hawkins didn't do himself any favors. Walks to Guillen and Lance Johnson? WTF is that?
No, because 5 innings is not 8, which is routinely counted as a CG.
Let' see:
Royals had
DeJesus: Career .282/.357/.414 he is an MLB caliber hitter
Grudzielanek: career .290
Gordon: hitting .280, brief career .256
Jose Guillen
Billy Butler
Olivio
Teahen...
German
all MLB hitters
ok Pena is... a really bad hitter
I'm sure that lineup is far from the worse lineup an MLB team has thrown out there.
For instance I think the Mets lineup that Koufax no-hit was MLB in name only
Edit: It was Melido, 6IP, 7/12/1990.
Edit #2: Never mind - that was for the White Sox, against the Yankees.
Congrats to Lester, it was a great game, and he attacked the hitters all night long.
No he didn't. Not a CG game anyway.
weird that Pedro Martinez is the pitcher 'Tek has caught most in his career (I would assume), and likewise 'Tek has caught more of Pedro than any other catcher... AND Pedro is one of the all-time toughest pitchers to get hits off of, but he was not part of any of the 4 tek has caught.
Here is the boxscore for that game. Ashburn, Mantilla, Thomas, and Hickman were all legit MLB ers.
True, but you can have a five inning complete game. Hell, Dick Drago had a four inning complete game in 1971 when he faced 13 batters.
It wasn't for the Yankees, it was against them.
What Jon Lester actually did is hold the Royals to 5 or 6 hits less than the Royals would normally expect to hit against Boston. It's still very impressive, but I'm not sure it changes my perception of Lester very much.
Yes you can, but it's far from routine, which is an important qualifier. Since 1956, there have been 140 5 IP CG's, and 413 of fewer than 8 IP, and 3348 CG's of 8 IP. An 8 IP CG is a normal occurance in the game. A 5 inning one is not, even if the rules provide for it.
Congratulations Jon.
I guess if your offense is going to be lousy, you may as well make history.
I seem to recall the Expos lineup that David Cone threw a perfecto against with the Yanks as being barely above AAA.
Edit: Must've misremembered.
You're, of course, assuming that the catcher has nothing to do with a pitcher throwing a no-no. A dubious assumption, at best.
RonDL White, Vlad Guerrero, Jose Vidro, Orlando Cabrerra, Brad Fullmer? No.
This means, of course, that the Yankees' pitchers will develop into HOF talents, while the Red Sox will barely be heard from again. Or something.
They're all great.
That's like choosing between filet mignon and lobster.
Rosenthal was dissin' on Kennedy a little on MLB radio today, Vaux. He said the scouts he talked to do not rate kennedy as a great prospect. He was ripping on Cashman too, for not being willing to include Kennedy and Hughes together in the trade for Santana, and that he overrated his own talent.
In addition, Schilling was one out away from throwing a perfect game as a Sox, and Mike Mussina was one out away from throwing a perfect game against them.
All those no-hitters are surprising considering Fenway is something of a hitter's park.
Last year Schilling went 8.2 of no-hit, shook off the signal from Tek, and the ensuing pitch was hit for a line drive single. We'll never know what would've happened... But even had it played out the same way it's not the only one-hitter Tek has caught.
Anyway, luck is the residuum of design. I think 'tek probably deserves some credit for his game planning.
Millwood had a good start after his no-no, and then stunk the rest of the year. Anibal Sanchez stunk and then had surgery. Buchholz was shut down, and hasn't exactly lit it up since then.
How did Schilling do after his near no-no?
Are you counting Nomo's as an "American League no-hitter?" Seems unfair, since a no-no by the opposing pitcher wouldn't have counted, and you're tallying for and against.
It's too bad Lester wasn't facing the Yankees in this turn. They've proven to be no match for lefties, and Lester by all accounts was dominating tonight. How many Red Sox/Yankees no-hitters have there been?
For instance I think the Mets lineup that Koufax no-hit was MLB in name only
Worst lineup ever might have been the September 1999 Angels that were no-hit by Eric Milton.
RF Jeff DaVanon
CF Orlando Palmeiro
LF Todd Greene
3B Troy Glaus
DH Steve Decker
1B Matt Luke
C Bret Hemphill
2B Trent Durrington
SS Andy Sheets
I count one major-league starter in that lineup. The outfield consisted of a pinch-hitter/fourth outfielder, a defensive replacement/fourth outfielder, and a backup catcher. Three of those guys I've never even heard of, including the DH and the 1B. Milton was perfect through the last six innings, and the Angels didn't use a single substitute.
And this wasn't the last day of the season, either. It was September 11. The Angels (managed by Joe Maddon! (after Terry Collins was fired)) should have known they were giving America some bad karma, punting like like that.
Ray Schalk had caught four no-hitters, until Jim Scott's May 14, 1914 no-hitter was disqualified as a no-no. Scott pitched nine hitless innings, but gave up two hits in the tenth inning.
It was considered a no-hitter until the rules that define what is constituted as a no-hitter were changed in 1991.
Nomo threw a no-hitter as a Dodger against the Rockies and one as a Red Sox against Baltimore.
Equally as baffling as the no no-no's in Forbes Field.
Of what I saw, he had terrific stuff, clearly the best of the year. Yeah the Royals helped him out a bit by swinging at some balls, but he was dealing.
Now that's a bad lineup.
I was under the impression Ray Schalk had also caught four, including Charlie Robertson's perfect game.
Edit - vortex has explained it...
Well, talented, durable catchers will get more opportunities than less talented,less durable catchers.
That by no means diminishes Vek's accomplishment either.
The Orioles started some bench players that game, but Tejada, Markakis, Roberts, and possibly Millar and Huff are all better hitters than anyone in the Royals lineup today.
Of course Buchholz is a much more talented pitcher than Lester, so maybe Lester's is still more impressive.
??? Of course. He threw it against Baltimore.
Nomo's no hitter may not have been his best start that season. He had a start against the Blue Jays in which he had a game score of 99. 14 strikeouts, 1 hit, no walks. His game score in the no-no was 95, 11 strikeouts and 3 walks.
I'm not sure I'd go that far. Lester is pretty talented too, and is a lefthander as well.
Let's not go bananas here, three is enough. "Possibly Millar and Huff" in late 2007 were better players than Teahen, Butler, and Jose Guillen, but probably not.
Right. Uh...
I have got to start drinking less on nights when there's going to be a no-hitter.
Granted, a 5-IP no-no is a lot less impressive than 9 innings of no-hit ball broken up in the 10th (Schalk's fourth).
Pedro's 1-hitter against NY was pretty impressive, too, but I'm not about to credit Varitek. I suppose he deserves some credit, but that was Pedro being Pedro.
Check out Bumpus Jones.
Arguing that a no hitter is not an accomplishment because the opposing line up 'wasn't really that good' is a bitter response that ignores the realities involved in throwing a no-no. The fact that it was against the O's or Royals doesn't negate the fact that Kennedy has been sent down and Hughes is turning into glass...
Worst lineup ever might have been the September 1999 Angels that were no-hit by Eric Milton.
RF Jeff DaVanon
CF Orlando Palmeiro
LF Todd Greene
3B Troy Glaus
DH Steve Decker
1B Matt Luke
C Bret Hemphill
2B Trent Durrington
SS Andy Sheets
Well, what's the best line-up that's ever been no-hit. Two spring to mind:
10/8/56
Gilliam
Reese
Snider
Robinson
Hodges
Amoros
Furillo
Campanella
Maglie
Campy batted eighth?
This one technically wasn't a no-hitter, though the first 36 batters were retired:
O'Brien
Aaron
Mathews
Adock
Covington
Crandall
Pafko
Logan
Burdette
Even the pitcher was a decent hitter (for a pitcher).
I was going to say the 2003 Yankees (6/11 vs. Astros), but looking at the lineup now... Soriano, Jeter, Giambi, Posada, Ventura, Matsui, Zeile, Mondesi, Juan Rivera... Nah, can't be it.
J Garcia SS
J Franco 1B
C Jones LF
A Jones CF
J Estrada C
J Drew RF
M DeRosa 3B
N Green 2B
M Hampton P
E Perez PH
Lofton, CF
Fermin, SS
Baerga, 2B
Belle, LF
Milligan, 1B
Ramirez, DH
Maldonado, RF
Thome, 3B
Oritz, C
They were all kids then, but Lofton, Baerga, Belle, Ramirez, Thome.... That's some hitters.
"almost" no-no's.
That and Pedro's "perfect game" as an Expo.
Tovar, 3B
Carew, 2B
Killebrew, 1B
Oliva, RF
Uhlaender, CF
Allison, LF
Hernandez, SS
Look, C
Boswell, P
Millar/Huff's 2007 OPS+ of 106/103 is higher than the career OPS+ of every Royals hitter. That's probably an unfair comparison to guys like Butler, but it's not that big of a stretch.
Rose, RF
Foster, CF
May, 1B
Bench, C
Perez, 3B
McRae, LF
Helms, 2B
Concepcion, SS
Grimsley, P
And there was bemoaning in braves' nation. Didn't he have something like 6BBs though..
Alfredo Griffin
Lloyd Moseby
George Bell (actually, Jorge Bell back then)
John Mayberry
Willie Upshaw
Damasco Garcia
Rick Bosetti
Danny Ainge
Buck Martinez
Many would be good or had been good, but in 1981 almost none were.
Cardinals fans remember him quite well. Steadily marched through the minors putting up great numbers, but got little respect because he threw a high 80s fastball and relied on his changeup and control. Showed up the scouts by putting together a really solid rookie year, and capped it with the no-hitter (Throwing 134 pitches near the end of a season in which he'd pitched nearly 200 innings between the minors and majors, to the consternation of a lot of fans). Looking at b-r game logs, it seemed he actually had two straight good starts following the no-hitter, but a month later he started having shoulder problems, which turned into a torn labrum right after he was the centerpiece of the Rolen deal.
That's easy, lobster. I guess Kev was going with reputation, but filet mignon is hardly the cut of choice for steak lovers.
This is tougher.
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