I had almost talked myself into being okay with Max's pitching so infrequently in the bigs - he's in the same long reliever role that has been used for guys like Johan Santana. However, it does seem to make sense to get him on a starter's schedule if that's how he's going to be used in the future.

Not a lot of foresight here.


I mean...is he a starter or reliever? Make up your minds. This is what I've been talking about since the beginning with Max.

They put him in the bullpen...but they already have a long man...Edgar.....but Max has never worked on back to back days or really short rest.....

I mean...what did they expect?

So what now? Are they sending him to AAA to condition to work back to back days? And if they are doing that, does that mean his days as a starter are over? (I'd think so).

I don't know....seems messed up to me.

After his MLB debut out of the pen with 4 IP and 7ks, not allowing a single baserunner, you'd think everyone would be on the same page here. He is a "long man". Why fix what isn't broke. That debut should at least typecast MAX for the next 5 seasons.

Two birds with one stone: jerk around Scherzer and weaken the bullpen. These guys are getting damn efficient.

I may be wrong Shoe, but I was under the impression that the bullpen move was temporary from the beginning. The move was made to strengthen the bullpen, give Scherzer some experience against ML hitters and keep his inning count down so that he'll still be able to help the team in September.

If he continues to relieve in Tucson then I'll be upset about this move, but as per usual, Robert's current sentiments continue to be fatalistic asshattery. The bullpen was gassed and rather than risk frying Scherzer's arm, they sent him down to get more help. That's not "jerking him around", it's the life of a young prospect. Everyone knows that Scherzer is an important part of this organization's future and this isn't going to change that.

Reposting what I posted to you at DBBP:

You are seeing a conflict where there isn't one.

I thought they would use him more than they did. Instead, they let him languish, just using him occasionally in low leverage situations. I had no way of knowing at the time that I "came around" that they would do that. I thought they would use him more often, and in higher leverage situations.

The lack of foresight on their part was because if Scherzer was not conditioned in a way that would allow him to work more frequently, then they should have sent him down as soon as Davis came back.

Got it?

One way to address a "gassed" bullpen: exile the only worthwhile long reliever, hang on to Edgar, keep the LOOGY, and call up a pitcher who can't even strike out batters in AAA.

Maybe they should bench Jackson to jumpstart the offense, too?

Scherzer's got a terrific name. Sounds like the name of a Nazi prison guard or something. "Max Scherzer." When he pitched at Wrigley my brother in law and I amused ourselves (yes, it doesn't take much) by pronouncing his name in an exaggerated faux-German accent (think Flea and the rest of the nihilists from "The Big Lebowski").

Wait--did I just violate Godwin's Law without even knowing it?

Just to clarify, as we hashed it out on another thread...there was a quote from Melvin indicating they wanted to use him on back to back days and couldn't, leading one to believe thats what they were sending him back to Tucson to do. But there was also another quote from Byrnes saying they were sending him back to stretch him back out for starting.

So mixed messages. If they are not giving up on him as a starter, then I am ok with things.

The problem is that their handling of Scherzer since he was moved out of the rotation isn't pushing him in any meaningful direction. If they have a plan for him, their last month of usage doesn't offer any clues.

Ach, what a scherz.

Well...he's thrown 54 innings so far this year, minors and majors combined. These questions would be easier to answer if we knew his innings cap this year...but just for arguments sake, figure it's around 130-140. Last year he threw 85 innings between the minors and the AZFL, with some additional innings for Fort Worth, but not sure how many. I think my guestimate of 130-140 is pretty reasonable.

If he goes back into the rotation, gets slowly stretch back out, and makes another 12-13 starts between now and the end of August, thats 60-70 innings, so that would put him at 115-125 innings, and allow him to work a bit out of the pen in September as Dahlian maintains, and maybe even allow them to consider putting him on a post season roster.

I probably jumped the gun in my criticism here.

I think there has got to be a better way to use a guy who has shown he can get guys out in the big leagues while still bringing him along slowly.

Don't know what it is, personally, but it has to exist. What does AAA do for Scherzer at this point except give him something to do in the summer to keep him off the streets?

For those of you who didn't take 4 years of high school german: "scherz" literally means "a joke" in english so I presume "scherzer" is "joker". Doesn't that pretty much have to be his nickname?

Sunday starter.

Voros, the thing is that Scherzer still has legitimate things to work on as a starting pitcher. He's getting big leaguers out now, but it's almost exclusively on the strength of his fastball.

It presents the catch-22 that if they want him to get better long term, he has to use the off-speed stuff more and more, but if he wants to be maximally effective as a big league reliever he should be almost exclusively throwing the "gas". He's had a few outings this season where it seemed as if they intentionally trying to throw as much off-speed stuff as possible and it resulted in poor command and spotty results.

More info:

Just wanted to make a couple more comments here.

This was a Melvin quote when he was moved to the pen

Melvin said Scherzer could be used in late-inning situations, perhaps filling in for relievers Chad Qualls or Tony Pena when they are unavailable.

"We wanted to get him into what potentially could be a prominent role," Melvin said.

"We didn't want to look at him just as a long guy. . . . We felt he could be a significant piece."

Scherzer pitched in relief during the Arizona Fall League last year, a consideration that made this move somewhat easier, Melvin said.

"I wouldn't hesitate to pitch him anywhere," Melvin said, "and that's why we kind of created this spot for him."

Of course we all know now thats not what happened. He was used once when the D backs had a lead...but that was the Atlanta game and he came in with the team up 10-1

Then he was used 5 more times, each time with the team behind, sometimes well behind.

He was used with approx 4 days rest between relief outings, on average.
It just was nothing like what Melvin lead us to believe.

Game Log

There has been a lot of conflicting information here. Perhaps the root of this is an actual conflict of opinion within the organization regarding how he should be handled and used. Hence the mixed messages. By words and actions, the organization collectively seems unsure here, and they don't seem to have a plan that EVERYONE is on board with.

EDIT: Just saw Levski's post in the DBBP thread of May 4th that said including Indy ball, he threw 119 innings last year. So maybe the cap is a little higher than 130-140, but I seriously doubt it's higher than 150.

Then he was used 5 more times, each time with the team behind, sometimes well behind.

that's not his fault, the dbacks have behind a lot lately.

Then he was used 5 more times, each time with the team behind, sometimes well behind.

that's not his fault, the dbacks have behind a lot lately

True

But things could be Worse

I presume "scherzer" is "joker". Doesn't that pretty much have to be his nickname?

He doesn't really look like the Joker (either one), but he does kinda look like Joe Randa.

Voros, the thing is that Scherzer still has legitimate things to work on as a starting pitcher. He's getting big leaguers out now, but it's almost exclusively on the strength of his fastball.

But if he's getting people out, why he can't work on them in the big leagues?

What does AAA do for Scherzer at this point except give him something to do in the summer to keep him off the streets?

Keep him from super-2 status in a couple years.