Hey AP: Suck It.

You can have the quotation license for free on that one.

“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”

Well, that is only four words.

They're dumber than ten dogs

you lose

Too bad for the AP that they don't get to define what "fair use" entails.

Stadium Crowd Chanting: Reuters! Reuters! Reuters!

Too bad for the AP that they don't get to define what "fair use" entails.

True, but there are enough people who don't know about fair use that they'll make some money off of this.

Too bad for the AP that they don't get to define what "fair use" entails.

Before long, there will be no such thing. The IP Warriors have a very strong Capitol Hill lobby, and when they get their way, we'll be paying someone for the right to say "and" or "the." I exaggerate, but only slightly.

True, but there are enough people who don't know about fair use that they'll make some money off of this.

And if they do and they're wrong, it pretty much guarantees that there will be a huge class action settlement 10 years from now.

You know, the Nazis had quotation licenses that they made the Jews pay.

Is this free?

...

The Associated Press is reporting that Willie Randolph has been fired by the New York Mets:

Randolph finally got fired

It's about time you dirty pamphleteers get what's coming to you. Heil Copyright Law!

Its funny to see old media try to make themselves even more irrelevant by blocking access to what they write.

The Associated Press is reporting that Willie Randolph has been fired by the New York Mets:

The A[...]P[...] is [...]t[...]e[...]h [...]s[...]k[...]

Man, this makes mocking them really hard...

I think #15 wins the thread so far.

Before long, there will be no such thing. The IP Warriors have a very strong Capitol Hill lobby, and when they get their way, we'll be paying someone for the right to say "and" or "the." I exaggerate, but only slightly.

that'll be $34.50, please. Cash or charge?

You know if they could they'd sell the air.

Well, nobody will ever quote the AP again. They'll fold up within five years.

Am I the only one who finds this a very serious problem?

I wasn't joking.

is this even legal

We'd better hit them at the source and start copyrighting the integer number space.

is this even legal

Yes, it's legal, just like MLBAM's fantasy league licenses. But they can't actually do anything to you if you refuse to pay.

Oh, and I was worried we'd lose one of our best sources of snark.

Well, nobody will ever quote the AP again. They'll fold up within five years.

How much benefit does AP derive from people quoting them? They are paid by other news organizations to gather information. While I don't see the point of this particular stance, I also don't believe AP exists so that non-customers can use their information as a launching point for discussion.

That'll show those pesky kids over at FJM.com!

"Yes, it's legal, just like MLBAM's fantasy league licenses. But they can't actually do anything to you if you refuse to pay."

Yep. This is just a big ol' paper tiger.

Too bad for the AP that they don't get to define what "fair use" entails.

They don't; the RIAA does. Or so I surmise.

Larry hit on the CDM case... And here I thought the well was about to run dry on this type of story.

By the way, if any of you quote anything I write in a thread as you reply y'all better pay up... punks.

1 buck per word : )

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They can quote me on that gratis.

Best Regards

John

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They can quote me on that gratis.

I can't find proper usage on this in my MLA. Oooh! A seminar topic!

I'm at the point where they can take their intellectual property and shove it. My official position is to oppose all copyright. Intellectual property law is a scourge.

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They can quote me on that gratis.

I can't find proper usage on this in my MLA. Oooh! A seminar topic!

Rock on?

Best Regards

John

I guess I'll just have to switch to stealing more of their photos.

You guys know I invented the exclamation point, right? So Halofan, you owe me $200 (it's $100 per exclamation point, but I'm doing a buy two, get one free special today). Ich bin ein Bill Conlin, $100, please. jwb, $100, due immediately. Shooty, $200, but your next ! is free. John, since you were only quoting Shooty, it's half price, so $100 will cover you. I accept Paypal.

I blame Willie Randolph.

John, since you were only quoting Shooty, it's half price, so $100 will cover you. I accept Paypal.

I'll make a notation in my will.

Best Regards

John

Thanks, John. You're a class act.

How much benefit does AP derive from people quoting them? They are paid by other news organizations to gather information.

Maybe it's time they changed their business model. And not along the lines suggested in the article.

The IP Warriors have a very strong Capitol Hill lobby, and when they get their way, we'll be paying someone for the right to say "and" or "the." I exaggerate, but only slightly.

Ergo, it's cheaper to donate that $50 or $100 to the Obama campaign, who are more likely to slay the lobbyist dragons than any other campaign in modern history.

Thanks, John. You're a class act.

As long as I'm spotted a "C" and an "L" before my wife knocks the "L" out of me.

Best Regards

John

Justin, I'll give you $100. $100 that is, in that imaginary currency dirty bloggers earn while blogging in their parents basement putting real, government-licensed newsmans out of business. So eat your Ben Franklin I bet it tastes like RAMEN ha ha ha ha ha ha

Unbelievable. Did the head of ASCAP just join the AP?

Ergo, it's cheaper to donate that $50 or $100 to the Obama campaign, who are more likely to slay the lobbyist dragons than any other campaign in modern history.

Ha, donating to Democrats so they can defeat the Hollywood lobby.

That's a new one.

Justin, I paypaled you that money but it bounced back, perhaps you can send me your paypal password and I can get your account to work better.

Isn't the solution to this to just quote articles in a series of four-word blocks?

Somebody really did invent the interrobang‽ and I hope he doesn't find out I used some here‽

Ha, donating to Democrats so they can defeat the Hollywood lobby.

I think #42 was at least partially sarcastic, but I'm unsure.

There's essentially zero difference between the two parties with regards to this issue as far as I can tell.

Or any other issue.

You guys know I invented the exclamation point, right?

My father used to make outrageous claims, such as that he invented the question mark. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds.

How much benefit does AP derive from people quoting them? They are paid by other news organizations to gather information. While I don't see the point of this particular stance, I also don't believe AP exists so that non-customers can use their information as a launching point for discussion.

I agree with SoSH. Doesn't a news organization like the Hartford Courant have to pay the AP to use their stuff? What's the difference between them and, for instance, David Pinto?

AROM: Pretty standard, really.

Justin, I paypaled you that money but it bounced back, perhaps you can send me your paypal password and I can get your account to work better.

This wins the thread--well played.

NOW GET OUT OF MY E-MAIL BOX!!!

Best Regards

John

Ergo, it's cheaper to donate that $50 or $100 to the Obama campaign, who are more likely to slay the lobbyist dragons than any other campaign in modern history.

Ain't no political party that stands up to the copyright thugs. We might as well consider the starting date of perpetual copyright the date Steamboat Willie was made.

GGC,

AFAIK, the difference is that the Hartford Courant reprints Associated Press content in full, whereas a site like BBTF or Pinto's site would use a sentence or two and link to an Associated Press customer's site. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's sort of like the difference between using a short quote from Keith Olbermann and posting an entire transcript of Countdown.

(I'd have quoted you from post 53, but I don't know what your going rate is.)

Ergo, it's cheaper to donate that $50 or $100 to the Obama campaign, who are more likely to slay the lobbyist dragons than any other campaign in modern history.

I've got some fantastic land in Florida to sell you.

Pay up suckas!!

I can't wait to see the AP try to sue over quoted excerpts like "San Francisco Giants pitcher Barry" and "Major League Baseball commissioner Bud".

Pay up suckas!!

That took me a while.

What on earth does this have to do with baseball?

How does it affect Frank Tanana?

AFAIK, the difference is that the Hartford Courant reprints Associated Press content in full, whereas a site like BBTF or Pinto's site would use a sentence or two and link to an Associated Press customer's site. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's sort of like the difference between using a short quote from Keith Olbermann and posting an entire transcript of Countdown.

Yes, but the point we're making is that the AP really doesn't benefit from being quoted (at least directly), and thus Vaux's threat really has no teeth to it. On top of that, while BTF is very good about excerpting and linking, there are a great many sites on the internet that will just lift the entire story, ignoring the link. I would imagine that's where AP's main beef rests.

But I agree that this proposal, as stated, is not reasonable.

there are a great many sites on the internet that will just lift the entire story, ignoring the link.

I think that baseball-fever does this. Hell, I'm pretty sure that I've seen whole bios lifted from bioproject there.

In any case, I have to watch what I say. I may be using some images in a poster presentation at SABR and I am not sure how to go about getting permission for that.

What on earth does this have to do with baseball?

I dunno, I wonder why Baseball Think Factory would link to an article about the AP trying to charge people who quote their articles. I wonder if the quote BTF excerpted from the article provides any insight...

I've got some fantastic land in Florida to sell you.

In eight years and 5 months, there will be, primarily, two groups of people in the United States. Those who will have said that the world can't be changed and those who will have changed it.

The lasting contribution of the greatest generation was their optimism and courage. It seems to have skipped a generation, but at least their spirit won't be forgotten.

In eight years and 5 months, there will be, primarily, two groups of people in the United States. Those who will have said that the world can't be changed and those who will have changed it.


And to think that's only a term in the Curt Schilling presidency!

I thought in most cases, they don't give a damn if you use it not-for-profit; they just get on your ass if you try to make money from it.

Anyone who thinks The Messiah is anything more than a Chicago machine political hack needs to do some research on him.

And to think that's only a term in the Curt Schilling presidency!

Primey.

I don't really know what to think about the Obama cultists on the internet, especially since there seems to be far less frequent encounters with such specimen in real life.

Anyone who thinks The Messiah is anything more than a Chicago machine political hack needs to do some research on him.

Similar to Messiah v1.0, what he turns out to be in real life will be far less important than the message that is ascribed to him. He's the flash point, but not the fire; the motivator, but not the motivation. If he turns out to be just another political hack who throws all his supporters under the bus, then the worst thing that happens is that the people who support him go back to being disillusioned and defeated, just like everyone else who criticizes his motives. Anything more than that could change the way that the American people view themselves and each other.

And is it really so bad to wish for something like that?

Of course, we can't possibly hope to have someone as real and truthful as a gun-slinging governor from Texas or a philandering Rhodes Scholar or a movie actor... we'll settle for the hack who taught Constitutional Law. I'm just glad that we have the cynical, snark-tastic 24-hour bloggary to remind us that he's human.

Similar to Messiah v1.0, what he turns out to be in real life will be far less important than the message that is ascribed to him.

Yeah, "I can no more disown him than I can disown my white grandmother" is quite the 21st century Sermon on the Mount.

I don't know whether I should laugh at these people or pity them.

I think you're right. Obama would probably do a lot to change the world, and 100% of that would be change for the worse. That's why his campaign has just focused on the "CHANGE!" part of the message.

This is a really bold stance from an organization that gets most of its material quoting from press releases and media events.

I sure wish George could be elected for a third term and save us from that phony.

Guess we'll have to settle for Uncle John.

He's a straight talker, and he'll do his darnedest to make sure things stay exactly the same.

This wouldn't have happened if the 2002 All Star Game didn't end in a tie.

Yeah, "I can no more disown him than I can disown my white grandmother" is quite the 21st century Sermon on the Mount.

Yeah, what was I thinking? The last thing we want from a politician is reasoned, rational thinking about people that they are close to. What we really want is radical, knee-jerk reaction to whatever the media feels is important.

:thumbsup

I think you're right. Obama would probably do a lot to change the world, and 100% of that would be change for the worse. That's why his campaign has just focused on the "CHANGE!" part of the message.

Smooth. Did you ever notice that Barack Obama points out his opponents strengths at the beginning of every stump speech? If Obama does anything for politics, he will have, at the very least, tried to give it some kind of class that the presidential elections have lacked for a long time. It's a shame that John McCain isn't the same classy guy that he was 6 years ago when he jumped in to defend Max Cleland.

Just win, baby, and leave class to the professor.

It's not "their information," it's their particular report of events or quotations from third parties. The information involved, being news, is simply facts, which can't possibly be intellectual property, though their exact wording can be. Fair use applies to the vast majority of quotations of AP-written material, however, and must be defended loudly.

Obama's pretty much a fraud. Probably a better guy than most of the politicians, but a fraud in relation to what most of his supporters seem to think he is. He voted to renew the Patriot Act. So did Hillary, of course. We would never get a mainstream candidate who didn't.

Please. Obama's attempt to give some kind of class to presidential elections is nothing more than a strategy to get himself elected. If you just want to vote for the guy who will get us out of Iraq fastest, okay, but everything else this guy proposes is John McLaren-esque in it's naivete and stupidity.

There's essentially zero difference between the two parties with regards to this issue as far as I can tell.

The Democratic party is no doubt beholden to more special interests than the Republican party. Read that again. I didn't say there are no Republican special interests, but there are more, many more even, on the Democratic side of the isle.

Please. Obama's attempt to give some kind of class to presidential elections is nothing more than a strategy to get himself elected. If you just want to vote for the guy who will get us out of Iraq fastest, okay, but everything else this guy proposes is John McLaren-esque in it's naivete and stupidity.

I almost want to take a month off from work to enjoy this post.

I consider high-ranking corporate officials who donate to political campaigns to be "special interests," so the entire political process is in the control of "special interests."

I like the idea of Obama as a flash point expressed in #71. Obama as flash point makes you think of Andrew Jackson. At this point Jackon's beliefs and motivations get a little obscure, but at the time his supporters knew exactly what he was (even if it's not obvious that they were right). Obama's like that; he's got a lot of somewhat inchoate hopes pinned to him. One could easily see him defining an era, even if he only blunders around for a couple of terms. As long as he blunders as forcefully as Jackson did.

Man, I am sick of the liberal bias here.

Obama's alright, but he won't suck nearly as much as the last 40 some-odd presidents, and that's good enough for me.

Also, I'm really looking forward to hearing reactionaries use his middle name over and over again.

Obama's alright, but he won't suck nearly as much as the last 40 some-odd presidents, and that's good enough for me.

Also, I'm really looking forward to hearing reactionaries use his middle name over and over again.

Eraser, did you catch Jeffrey Goldberg's interview with Obama last month during which Obama trumpeted his middle name as a foreign policy qualification?

Quoting now:

BO: I wasn’t flummoxed. I think what is going on there is the same reason why there are some suspicions of me in the Jewish community. Look, we don’t do nuance well in politics and especially don’t do it well on Middle East policy. We look at things as black and white, and not gray. It’s conceivable that there are those in the Arab world who say to themselves, “This is a guy who spent some time in the Muslim world, has a middle name of Hussein, and appears more worldly and has called for talks with people, and so he’s not going to be engaging in the same sort of cowboy diplomacy as George Bush,” and that’s something they’re hopeful about. I think that’s a perfectly legitimate perception as long as they’re not confused about my unyielding support for Israel’s security.

If Obama does anything for politics, he will have, at the very least, tried to give it some kind of class that the presidential elections have lacked for a long time.

Yeah, in that regard they jumped the rails at Adams v. Jefferson, 1800.

My opinion is the Republican Party picked John McCain because they know they're going to lose no matter who they nominate and they're ready for him to go away, much like what happened with Bob Dole in 1996.

That said, Obama... eh. Anytime someone criticizes him, his stock response tends to be along the lines of "this is the kind of divisive attitude that's the biggest problem in our country. We need to be united!" Well... I don't have a hard time interpreting that to mean "you, the minority, will agree with us, the majority."

There are legitimate reasons to be concerned about what Obama's real intentions are. He and his people have done an excellent job, in my opinion, obscuring the fact that he is among the most liberal politicians in the U.S. But the problem is... you'd rather have John McCain and a continuance of the status quo? Really?

By the way, I saw a McCain ad on TV today... the first words were "John McCain stood up to the president..." I can't even remember anymore what the context of the ad was; I think something environmental. But that's exactly what the commercial was trying to accomplish; it's those first seven words. McCain's first move, now that the campaign run has really started, is to distance himself from Bush. The problem is, that isn't going to work, because Obama's going to bash his brains in with IraqWarIraqWarIraqWarIraqWarIraqWarIraqWar. That's the context in which Obama and his people are going to communicate to us, loud and clear, that McCain is just like Bush, even if it's not so (and it's not) on many issues other than the war.

If Obama is "one of the most liberal politicians in the U.S.", I'm leaving.

You know what’s ironic, bloggers have been slamming the MSM for years, claiming that they’re no longer needed ..

oh really?

So, is every thread from now until November going to be hijacked by political freaks? It would be a lot more entertaining if the Ron Paul zealots stopped pining for the gold standard and wandered over here to start mixing it up about baseball and how the MLB is a socialist tool for not abolishing umpires.

You know what’s ironic, bloggers have been slamming the MSM for years, claiming that they’re no longer needed ..

I haven't heard any bloggers say that. I think most realize that blogs need MSM to an extent.

Anytime someone criticizes him, his stock response tends to be along the lines of "this is the kind of divisive attitude that's the biggest problem in our country. We need to be united!" Well... I don't have a hard time interpreting that to mean "you, the minority, will agree with us, the majority."

I disagree with this, to a certain point. It has become repetitive, but I think when he responds like that, it's the WAY in which someone has criticized him, rather than THAT someone has criticized him.

It's pretty clear from his book that he:

a) Holds some non-liberal stances (opposes gay marriage, in favor of some restrictions on abortions)

b) He's willing to listen to reasoned oppositional stances

What you're going to see a lot of in the next five months (from the extremes on both sides) is people saying this same thing: "Obama is using 'uniting' as a euphemism for 'believing what I believe'". But what he's really asking is for some compromise in order to solve the problems of the world. For example, if you want fewer abortions, how about better sex education in schools and none of this abstinence crap, rather than trying to legislate abortion? I know some people believe that his stance on gay marriage is a cop-out, but really it's an attempt to get *something* for same-sex unions at the federal level rather than forcing people who have unyielding religious beliefs to have to choose between their faith and their common decency?


His big mistake in this campaign from a policy perspective was the NAFTA-in-the-midwest crap. I was kind of embarrassed for him there, because in AoH he presents a much more enlightening view of free trade. I think that he can began to doubt, at that point, his own ability to reason with voters on a complicated issue (which is the only way that he's going to be effective as a President).


And as for the comment on the hijack, I think it was my fault, so I apologize for it. I did mean it as mostly a throw-away comment and didn't mean to start that kind of a brushfire.

AP expects you to pay to license 5-word quotations

Those rotten sons of

But what he's really asking is for some compromise in order to solve the problems of the world. For example, if you want fewer abortions, how about better sex education in schools and none of this abstinence crap, rather than trying to legislate abortion?

Except Russ, this stance belies not understanding how a lot of abortion opponents feel about abortion (I'm not one of them). Many of them feel that abortion is murder, period, so you can't expect those people to be in favor of a compromise involving murder. To a lot of people that are pro-life, "why don't you compromise rather than trying to legislate abortion?" comes across exactly the same as "why don't you compromise. You guys will still be slaves but you get weekends off" would come across to someone against slavery in the 1850s.

Those rotten sons of

Mariottis?

Many of them feel that abortion is murder, period, so you can't expect those people to be in favor of a compromise involving murder.

True, but really this doesn't even get at it. That bunch isn't exactly pro-teenage sex if it weren't for the abortions.

True, but really this doesn't even get at it. That bunch isn't exactly pro-teenage sex if it weren't for the abortions.

Certainly, though I'd guess they would be kind of toothless without the abortion thing.

You guys will still be slaves but you get weekends off

The powers that be didn't have much trouble pushing that idea through. Maybe not everybody but they got me. Oh well, at least this wageslave has internet at work.