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Yeesh.
BTW, I've been to Bataan on several occasions. I guess now that I think about it, I wouldn't use that reference if I was there. So maybe it's a little insensitive. But at this point, maybe we just need to cancel all broadcasts, close the internet, and stop talking to each other period.
Ryan Freel chased that fly ball down like a policeman going after a Japanese-American.
It's time for the Reds defense to hunker down in the face of this London Blitz.
With a pick-off move like Arroyo's, the opposition won't exactly be needing Panzer speed to steal on him.
The Reds offense is as hot as Dresden right now!
That double switch worked about as well for Narron as neutrality did for Belgium.
Unless you are Andrew Jackson, no.
Other useful World War 2 analogies for Brennaman:
The only owner cheaper than Nutting and McClatchy is Oskar Schindler.
It depends on situation and audience. If you said that while on a MLB broadcast then you're a moron and should apologize for it.
It's not an awful thing that Brennaman said and I don't think of him as a bad person for it, but I think that this whole exchange went well and I don't think it's out of line for him to make some statement saying that he didn't realize how sensitive of an issue that still is for many people and he apologizes if he offends them. People can rail as much as they want about it's stupidity but it's not an unreasonable reaction by both parties and it's this sort of give and take that is essential for raising people's cultural awareness.
All in all - these events are a net positive for creating an aware, tolerant and understanding society. If you hope for a world with announcers that are able to call homosexuals "fags", women "dishwashers" and make liberal use of Holocaust jokes, then this is probably a sad day for you.
Actually, this story is quite positive. The comment was made, someone said it was probably not the best idea, and an apology was issued. Done and done. Why #####? I personally wouldn't upon hearing have said anything other than "Brennaman, you're an idiot, as usual" because I'm not the one bothered.
Commander Strawman to the rescue!
Personally, I tend to think of the Bataan Death March as being like the Black Hole of Calcutta (for use in hyperbolic comparisons, anyway), even though they technically happened two hundred years apart. But if that attitude accidentally offended someone, I'd certainly apologize to them.
In fact, after travelling around the world recently, I'm pretty sure it's not even considered human at this point.
I am a veteran, and I find and have always found Marty's very being, nay existence, to be somewhat offensive. But I doubt MY e-mail would elicit an apology.
If I've offended any Yankee fans or basketball fans, I'll gladly apologize.
For the fact that you are forced to listen to Sterling or watch basketball.
"At the final meeting 134 legal people and accountants filed into a small eight by ten room. Only 87 came out alive. The Black Hole of Saville Row had taken toll of some of the finest merchant banking brains of a generation. Luckily, that's not very serious, but the Rutles were obviously self-destructing fast."
Depends on the standard metaphor, really.
Anyway, I don't think Brennaman was forced to apologize so much as he actually felt sorry. Are you saying that if you used the Bataan Death March as a comparison and then realized you were talking to someone who actually was there, you wouldn't apologize?
You need to be rounded up and subjected to sensitivity training.
Since I'm still depressed about Barbaro, this remark offends me. Please apologize and in future be more careful when waxing scatological.
As for mentioning Bataan or the Trail of Tears metaphorically, I wouldn't have a problem using the former reference, although I suppose I'd say I was sorry if someone said he had a personal connection to the event and was offended. I wouldn't use the latter, even though it's much more historically distant. What's the difference? I suppose because as a white American I'd feel safer belittling my own culture's tragedy than making light of a horrible event that befell members of a minority group. Besides, the word "Bataan" is much funnier than "tears."
I've now thought about this incident for about ten minutes longer than it ever deserved.
When you were talking to a national audience and tens of thousands of listeners in a place where there are a thousands of WWII veterans?
While I was too young, my brother served in World War II. Gordy used that reference on multiple occasions in reference to me taking him on rabbit hunts that lasted far too long in his opinion. Or does he have special allowance as a veteran of the conflict though not a victim of the specific incident?
'Cause he had a "cushy" job on a destroyer in the South Pacific. Always gotta given the Navy guys a hard time. Even when they're dead. That's what brothers do.
As a follow up if you want to expend some energy on behalf of some old men who served their country, how about the next time you are at the ballgame and some lazy c*cks*cker is lounging in his chair yapping with his buddy while the anthem is playing you politely ask him to stand and expend five f*cking calories for one time during the day?
We had a chat about this in another thread a while back without much resolution other than the so-called rebels got to convey their lame, sorry *ss excuses for not being willing to exert themselves for three minutes.
I am hopeful that perhaps I can gain one convert to the cause. That is if the "feelings" of possibly one veteran mean so much maybe you will consider MINE and act accordingly.
Sincerely,
Harvey
I hate that stuff...
I'm not sure your references count as "pop" culture.
I think that you are putting together two issues which are not equal, although even my argument won't apply all that much because it implies thoughtfulness on the part of those not standing. My mother's father was captured and killed in WWII in France, and my other grandfather was at Normandy and lived through it. For a number of years, I was respectfully quiet and took off my hat but did not stand with the anthem. It is absolutely a basic right and basis for life in America not to be forced to stand in such a situation and I believe based on extensive reading that 95% of the Constitutional Convention would agree with me. I do believe that it is this freedom my grandfather died for as opposed to what the Germans were trying to do to all of Europe and force people to behave in a certain way. I have in fact - as Brennamen did - apologized to my grandfather for doing so when he brought it up, as well as those at the stadium who spoke to me about it. My grandfather was pissed but he understood. (I had to stop this after 9/11, as I simply could not take the enormous load of crap I got at Shea. I am now forced to stand, if this is what you want.) I visit my grandfather's grave every Veteran's day I'm able and fly the flag out of respect and thankfullness on this and other days that are important. (Although I admit it is hard to fly a flag out of a NYC basement apartment or a room with no windows.) As far as the twits at the stadium, I cannot speak for them, but obviously I'm against thoughlessness and that sort of rude behavior.
I do think this story is a non-story, again. I have raised my voice because I do not agree with those who go on and on and on about how the apology is SOO awful and terrible. I think the apology Brenneman gave is valid even if I would not cry out myself for it.
I am sorry if you don't find my sorry-ass excuse for not standing in the past to be valid and feel that I do not support your feelings. I do. I do not find this thread's situation to be comparable to your argument for standing during the anthem. I truly enjoy your posts and viewpoints, and it upsets me that this view of mine would have you find me beneath your respect.
As far as brothers giving each other crap being the same thing, please. Would you have kidded a stranger during that period about the Bataan Death March? I could be wrong best I would doubt it.
With Respect -
Timothy
...I was wrong to make the comparisons in an earlier broadcast, and I profusely apologize. I now realize it was far too soon.
If he did, he'd probably do it in the middle of an inning, go one for 5 minutes doing it, and forget to mention the game while doing it.
The previous explanations given by others were that they didn't want to honor the current administration by standing for the anthem.
I personally believe the anthem and flag are enduring symbols for the IDEA of the United States and NOT for any specific individual or individuals.
As such, I cannot fathom not honoring the idea, the concept, the hope that is the U.S. as described in the Constitution, an imperfect document that is nonetheless the greatest living document created by man. Because I believe that is the one idea that DOES bind us as citizens of this nation.
And playing the Nazi card? I would hope that the posters here could do better in developing a persusasive argument.
Having said my piece I will now exit stage right as this is a forum about baseball.
Well, that much is certainly true. I don't know a whole lot about Marty, but from what I've heard here and before (especially from Harveys, who is about the last person I expect to tell someone to shut it that doesn't deserve it), it does seem he needs to learn to censor himself a little better.
As a loudmouth myself, I would be the hypocrite in the extreme in telling Marty the Great to hush unless I found his commentary to cross the proverbial line.
But as others have pointed out it's ironic in the extreme in that it was something like THIS that caused him to catch some flack.
And if folks want a taste turn into MLB Audio. And if you want even more background as the broadcasting philosophy of the station in general check out WLW 700 and the Bill Cunningham show. That's a special treat.
They don't have any special times listing local lynchings taking place later in the week but that's all that is missing.
There are an awful lot of words in that argument that don't mention the Nazis. Every damned one of them, actually. If that's all you saw there, I can't really do anything about that.
In other hilarity, John Sterling, trying to make a point about Matsui being no trouble at all, said "You hear about certain wives being high-maintenance, well, Matsui's NO maintenance." Ha!
I read every word. And the statement would have been better sans that clause.
But enough of this. Two hard-headed souls who aren't going to budge.
Good evening.
See, I CAN budge. I'm not high-maintenance. :D
Exactly my point, as I'm in the same boat. That, and I've always seen you to be a pretty staunch defender of "let an idiot say whatever he wants".
I stand with hat over heart for the anthem, and refuse to stand for "God Bless America" for about five different reasons, the least of which is that you're not supposed to treat any other song as if it was the national anthem.
Yeah, I was at a Fort Worth Cats game recently, which is the first time since 2001 that I've been at a place where they played GBA, and I kept myself seated. I always stand for the anthem, as much out of respect for others there as out of respect for veterans (though I do spend the time during the anthem thinking about what other people have sacrificed for me, including both of my maternal grandparents), but GBA is pushing it.
The Reds offense is as hot as Dresden right now!
That double switch worked about as well for Narron as neutrality did for Belgium.
You started out disappointingly weak, but came on very strong in the second half.
Like the Soviet Union after Stalingrad.
Ohhh...I had to read all the way to #50 to find out what the apology was for. Upon reading the headline, I was split as to whether the apology would be for comparing baseball to war, or for reminding everyone that Japan was once a grim war enemy.
Still, I wouldn't compare a long road trip to the Death March in front a Filipino any more than I'd tell Iraq jokes in front of vets. I've only heard it as an analogy once, from someone who (more than once) confused the Pacific Theatre with the Great Star Theater. I didn't realize it had passed into pop culture.
Harvey: I understand your view on standing for the National Anthem. I don't disagree with your reasoning, or with the sentiment that freedom is always worth respecting. I usually stand, not for the Anthem itself, but to avoid embarassing my friends sitting with me. I think being allowed to not stand for the Anthem is representitive of the freedom that it stands for.
I hope I haven't offended you, Harvey. You're one of my favorite posters. I just wanted to respectfully disagree.
Ukraine not weak!
Ergo, no apologies required for what you BELIEVE.
Should we disagree be prepared to engage in a spirited discussion. And while I may think your ARGUMENT is without merit it won't lessen my opinion of YOU.
That is where so much of the "noise" of this forum occurs. Posters who personalize the discussion. That by someone stating that they think their idea is lacking that this also means the poster is being told he or she is lacking. Which isn't correct or shouldn't be correct.
Anyway, fight the good fight.
Remember, it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
As a fulltime fluffer for a major pornographic film studio, I find your closing comment incredibly offensive and hurtful.
It's better to live on your feet, than die on your knees.
--Joseph Heller
While I appreciate the intended irony of this quote, let me say that I wholeheartedly disagree.
--Joseph Heller
"You're cursed"
-James Heller
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