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Tuesday, August 19, 2008

AP NewsBreak: Umpires refuse replay call with MLB

NEW YORK - Umpires want baseball to take another look at instant replay. Umps said their governing board voted Tuesday to boycott a conference call with management intended to discuss implementing replay and are angry that their concerns aren’t being addressed.

tribefan Posted: August 19, 2008 at 08:50 PM | 3480 comment(s)
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   3201. ghost of perros Posted: September 05, 2008 at 01:40 AM (#2929649)
Geez, more and more he comes off like Reagan... not The Great Communicator, but circa 1994.

All he's really got is five years in a POW camp.
   3202. David Nieporent Posted: September 05, 2008 at 01:45 AM (#2929651)
Wow. I wonder why conservatives get the idea that the media might have some liberal bias. Way back in 2990, Guapo posted a link to a story in the Detroit Free Press about a Michigan focus group they ran on Palin's speech. The focus group had 2 Republicans, 3 Democrats, and 6 Independents. Of those 6 "Independents," two of them turn out to be members of Code Pink. Since there are about 12 members of Code Pink in the United States, the odds of the Free Press picking them by accident seem about as likely as Bob Barr winning the presidency. Either that, or the media might want to worry more about its own vetting and less about McCain's.

EDIT: turns out two of the other independents are a guy who heads the Michigan UU Social Justice Network and a woman who is part of a group that lobbies for socialized medicine.
   3203. Ray DiPerna Posted: September 05, 2008 at 01:49 AM (#2929653)
Of those 6 "Independents," two of them turn out to be members of Code Pink. Since there are about 12 members of Code Pink in the United States,


That is pretty funny.
   3204. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 03:22 AM (#2929669)
Hey, RJ: If there's a fire at the fertility clinic, and the building's going to collapse any minute, should the fireman try to save the secretary passed out at her desk, or the freezer full of fertilized embryos?
which ever is closer, the roof is getting ready to cave in.
   3205. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 03:29 AM (#2929670)
If you were stuck with the job of secretary at a fertility clinic, wouldn't you drink?
Upon further reflection, this is a very good point.


why is this a good point? liberal hypocrisy cracks me up. the woman has a job, and is not living off the government ###. Is that what upsets you? probably.
   3206. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 03:33 AM (#2929671)
Obama wins the election, and creates a solid 5-4 pro-Roe majority on the court, with all five liberal justices now relatively young and healthy. But in the 2012 election the Republicans sweep into power with a filibuster-proof Senate. Knowing that the five liberal justices might well outlive this Republican administration, what is the proper (and likely) initial private reaction of a diehard Roe opponent if one of those justices gets killed in a car crash?

a. This is a human tragedy.

b. This is a great opportunity.


B. Anytime a judge that condones the kiddie Cuisinart, kicks the bucket, its a GREAT opportunity to overturn the moral injustices of this sick country.
   3207. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 03:36 AM (#2929672)
If you save the secretary, in contrast, then you're conceding that an embryo and an actual human being are not equivalent commodities


what a reach! you are not condoning anything. You are saving a human life in both scenarios. the secretary could be sitting right by the door while the embryos are behind lock and key. There are 1,000's of variables here ..what a bunch of crap.
   3208. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 03:40 AM (#2929673)
Rather, they have instituted a policy according to what they want rather than to what the facts are or how it may pertain to constitutional rights, then used a John C. Calhoun-ish approach to rationalizing that policy later on, with truly tragic results.
Is Kevin referring to Republicans? Or to his views on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball? You be the judge!
I think everybody here knows Kevin is a effing hypocrite. If Big Papi were to pee positive, you would see his tune change real quick.
   3209. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 03:45 AM (#2929675)
kevin Posted: September 04, 2008 at 08:14 AM (#2928707)
I've got him on ignore.
thats because you are a coward, and apparently a pedophile too. You come in here 100 times a day and talk #### and basically put people down left and right, and when somebody throws your #### right back in your face, you hide.

You are a effing coward.

I enjoy pushing your buttons a-hole.
   3210. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 03:49 AM (#2929676)
Time for me to take up my idelogical scorekeeper duties:

Fridas Boss
Red Juice/Gambling Rent*
mrams (?)


just out of curiosity RR. are you required to work the phone banks for the Dems.
I have spoken to a number of teachers in the this district, and they routinely tell me the Union requires them to work the democratic phone banks, regardless of their political leanings.

Could you shed some light on this for us.
   3211. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 03:52 AM (#2929677)
but I think that the righties have more of the outright doofuses than the lefties here
of course you do, this is a liberal circle jerk after all.
   3212. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 04:13 AM (#2929679)
feel the same way. It's why pro-abortion isn't a fair name, because practically nobody is an abortion cheerleader


Well lets call it what it really is.

taking little babies, blending them up, and tossing them in the trash, all in the name of convenience = murder!
   3213. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 04:16 AM (#2929680)
Westmoreland's the same guy who wanted to have the 10 commandments posted in every public school classroom and when Stephen Colbert asked him to name them, he couldn't name one. Not one.


########. You are spreading lies.
   3214. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 04:16 AM (#2929681)
Here it is:

Congressman Westmoreland

Actually, he got a couple of the obvious ones and it was public buildings he wanted to hang them in, not schools.


so you were wrong. Imagine that
   3215. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 04:40 AM (#2929682)
okay, all caught up.

Look, I am not a religious person at all. I think if you believe in a "god", you are an idiot. Turn on the science channel for "gods" sake. Soak in what they are "preaching" for a bit ..

But, the chopping up of millions of babies every year, all in the name of convenience, is disgusting. Much in the way we look back at slave owners today with disgust, it is my sincere hope that 100 years from now, history treats us like the barbarians we truly are.

You have a couple of jackasses in here, like say Kevin, who has openly condoned cheating on his wife, and sleeping with children. These are the kinds of people Roe versus Wade is designed to protect. Not the rare rape or incest case, but conveniences. Hypocrits like him can't keep his dick in his pants, and when he "slips" up, he'll just send her off to the butcher with $100.00 bill in her pocket, all in the name of his convenience.

its sick.

sorry if you can't see that.
sorry if the truth offends you.
sorry that you need to make up some sad ass scenario about a passed out secretary, to help make you feel better about blending babies.

I was getting ready to switch my handle back to gambling rent, but i think i will keep it as red juice, just as a constant reminder to you all. Every time you see "Red Juice" you will not think of that democratic kool-aid you have been drinking, or the hypocrisy surrounding Barry Bonds, but think of that red syrup shooting through the vacuum hose, that apparently so many of you are in favor of.

blending babies is bad people. Bad.
spin it anyway you want, but it doesn't make you any less of a barbarian, for condoning it.
   3216. Softball-Playing Human Refuses to Be Walked Posted: September 05, 2008 at 04:44 AM (#2929683)
taking little babies, blending them up, and tossing them in the trash, all in the name of convenience = murder!
How many foster children have you adopted? How many clinics have you shut down? How many aborted babies have you avenged by punishing the women who gave them up? I'm guessing the answer to all those questions is the same. If you really thought it was murder, that wouldn't be the case.

this is a liberal circle jerk after all.
Nobody's demanding you to be here; Free Republic is just a few taps away. Life here's unfair? Then get the #### out.
   3217. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 04:56 AM (#2929685)
oh no, its murder.
   3218. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 05:01 AM (#2929686)
do you have any idea how hard it is to adopt in this country? And i have shut down no clinics, because it is against the law for anybody to go near them, unless you are going to be cut. If not, i would have no quams about standings outside and attempting to educate. non violently of course.
And punishing women, what are you talking about? Is that something that Kevin condones and you all agree is "cool" .. punishing women.. wow.
   3219. Red Juice Posted: September 05, 2008 at 05:05 AM (#2929687)
you tell me what it is then .. if it isn't murder out of convenience, then what is it ..

look ..

pic 1
pic 2
pic 3
   3220. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 05, 2008 at 06:07 AM (#2929689)
Pregnancy as a leasehold or irrevocable license to the mother's body? Interesting concept. So the fetus in a rape is a tenant at sufferage wherin the mother can use self-help to evict? Or is the fetus a trespasser?

There was a great case several years ago, after one of the states passed a law that a fetus was a person with all rights appertaining thereto, etc. A pregnant woman in jail sued on the basis that her unborn child was being wrongfully imprisoned without having been found guilty of a crime. I never did hear how that one turned out.
   3221. Lassus Posted: September 05, 2008 at 06:35 AM (#2929691)
Red Juice:

More meds.
   3222. pv nasby Posted: September 05, 2008 at 06:47 AM (#2929693)
you tell me what it is then .. if it isn't murder out of convenience, then what is it ..

look ..

pic 1
pic 2
pic 3


Oh boy, someone on the internets fell for those same old photoshopped pics. Those have been going around a while, it's a wonder anyone still falls for it. Here you can see the proof that it's all been tweaked and made up to look bad.
   3223. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 08:12 AM (#2929709)
Criswell: Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future..."

Are you suggesting Ed Wood wrote McCain's speech?
   3224. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 08:13 AM (#2929710)
Only a few of my comments are truly thoughtless, though I admit the quotient is higher on this thread due to too much dependence on outside links... and insomnia. And politics is not my best subject.

Besides, Nieporent happened back to the thread when the convention was being "live-blogged," if you will; that sort of thing tends to consist of snarky one-liners, regardless of who's doing it. See, e.g., any political blog.
   3225. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 08:18 AM (#2929711)
Red Juice really has gone off the deep end. Now, normally, if I were to answer myself, I'd say "how the hell would you even notice?", but I'd say the proof's in the pudding on this page. These posts are completely unhinged.
   3226. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 08:21 AM (#2929712)
Oh boy, someone on the internets fell for those same old photoshopped pics. Those have been going around a while, it's a wonder anyone still falls for it. Here you can see the proof that it's all been tweaked and made up to look bad.

Shame on you, nasby. This discussion is no place for commentary from anyone with any actual medical expertise. Less reason and more hysteria, please.
   3227. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 08:25 AM (#2929713)
do you have any idea how hard it is to adopt in this country?

"Adoption" /= "foster care." I'd think someone who purports to be so concerned for the welfare of children would pick up on that distinction.

Even if I concede your point, you're saying people are justified in not improving a child's life through adoption because of...convenience?
   3228. Eraser-X is dominating this site! Posted: September 05, 2008 at 08:35 AM (#2929720)
OMG!!?!?! Did you know that Asian people eat babies!!?! Forward this email to as many people as now or yellow people will eat your baby?!?!
   3229. Lassus Posted: September 05, 2008 at 09:09 AM (#2929738)
ON THE SEASON FINALE OF "PHONE BANK BREAK":

Eraser-X and robinred try and escape the Democratic Phone Bank in which they've been imprisoned by the Teacher's Union Company. As their plan to escape comes to fruition, they trick Howard Dean by poisoning his regular meal of stewed babies with the abundance of marijuana and coke lying around the DNC. Their plot hits a snag, however, when Obama shows up. When they feed him the stew, they find his extensive coke-snorting has built up an immunity. Allah ain't going out like that! They wake up to find themselves imprisoned in Obama's secret Muslim work camp in the grain silos of southern Illinois.

THIS WEEK ON FOX







OK, fine, it's no "Cracked". But I had fun.
   3230. Moscow Hiding In The Shadows Posted: September 05, 2008 at 09:21 AM (#2929746)
OMG!!?!?! Did you know that Asian people eat babies!!?! Forward this email to as many people as now or yellow people will eat your baby?!?!

And that ain't the half of it, E-X. A search into the records of the Alabama State Sovereignty Commission unearthed this long forgotten phone call:

December 1964, Alabama State Capitol. The phone rings and Gov. George Wallace picks it up.

Wallace: "Gov'ner Wallace speaking"

Mao Tse-Tung (that was the spelling then): "Hello Gov'na Wallace.....this Mao flom Chinah. We Chinese people comin to Alabama flom Chinah....

"...we velly velly hungly Govnah...we climb rock...we swim ocean...we look faw yung sistas one faw each...

"...we comin to skloo nice white grl...we lookin faw blon hair and bloo eyes...we not wear Tlojans Govnah so yoo bletta wotch out..."


At that point the connection was lost, and there's no transcript of Wallace's reply. But as Casey Stengel said, you can look it up.
   3231. Guapo Posted: September 05, 2008 at 09:23 AM (#2929748)
Well, we've gone from Sarah Palin being "Eagleton II" to a commenter at NRO saying her speech was "the most compelling performance by a Republican politician since Ronald Reagan."

Can't wait to begin the second week of her candidacy.
   3232. kevin Posted: September 05, 2008 at 09:29 AM (#2929749)
Red Juice really has gone off the deep end.


To have gone off the deep end, one has to assume that at one time the person in question wasn't off the deep end. Such is not the case with Low Rent. He's always been a rightwingnut whackjob.
   3233. JPWF13 Posted: September 05, 2008 at 09:51 AM (#2929759)
I have RE JUICE on ignore... i temporarily had the urge to undo that to see what all the consecutive posts were about... saw some of the responding posts and thought better of it.
   3234. David Nieporent Posted: September 05, 2008 at 09:52 AM (#2929761)
Well, we've gone from Sarah Palin being "Eagleton II" to a commenter at NRO saying her speech was "the most compelling performance by a Republican politician since Ronald Reagan."

Can't wait to begin the second week of her candidacy.
Well, the Republicans haven't really had a dynamic presidential or vice presidential candidate in a long time, have they? Bush I and II, Cheney, Quayle, Dole... which is one of the reasons that the Democratic explanation that it was Kerry/Gore/Dukakis's fault that they lost isn't really all that convincing to me. (Republicans have certainly had dynamic speakers at conventions, but none on the ticket.)
   3235. Ryan Jones Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:04 AM (#2929772)
which is one of the reasons that the Democratic explanation that it was Kerry/Gore/Dukakis's fault that they lost isn't really all that convincing to me.


I can't say about Dukakis but, for all Bush' faults, he was a significantly more dynamic speaker than Kerry and Gore.
   3236. Chip Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:11 AM (#2929782)
McCain is doing "Face the Nation" this weekend. Obama is doing "This Week." Biden is doing "Meet the Press."

Meanwhile, Palin's going to do a disappearing act. They're too afraid to even let her go on Fox News, apparently.
   3237. Traderdave Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:13 AM (#2929786)
She's got a 12 guage wedding to plan
   3238. Traderdave Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:15 AM (#2929787)
BTW interesting thread, have been reading bits/pieces over the last few days, certainly nowhere near all of it. Don't any of you have jobs?
   3239. kevin Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:20 AM (#2929794)
I thought Dukakis was pretty good speaker and he debated well. If he wasn't so damned short, he might have gotten elected.
   3240. The Jerry Royster Experience Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:28 AM (#2929802)
If he wasn't so damned short, he might have gotten elected.

Doubtful. Reagan was extremely popular at the time, and Bush was inheriting that mantle. The Democratic candidate would have had to have been as charismatic as Reagan, and there was nothing special about Michael Dukakis.

Besides, he completely dropped the ball on law-and-order questions, which was the biggest issue of the day.
   3241. The Good Face Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:36 AM (#2929812)
for all Bush' faults, he was a significantly more dynamic speaker than Kerry and Gore.


You damn the man with faint praise.

By the way, an honest question; What faults are you speaking of with respect to Bush I? Aside from the (R) by his name, I'd have thought he'd be relatively well thought of by liberals. He was no bible beater, was a foreign policy realist, not a chickenhawk (or really all that much of a hawk at all), and actually raised taxes.

Not to say he didn't have his faults, but I'm curious what people on the left think about him.
   3242. robinred Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:40 AM (#2929817)
just out of curiosity RR. are you required to work the phone banks for the Dems.
I have spoken to a number of teachers in the this district, and they routinely tell me the Union requires them to work the democratic phone banks, regardless of their political leanings.


I teach at the college level now, so I am not in the union anymore. I can find this out quite easily, however. But if someone said, "No thanks, I am voting for McCain" I don't see that the union could do anything even if it were a "requirement." I will get back to you after I ask a couple of friends.

Don't any of you have jobs?


This has coincided with a couple of slow days for me. This would be a great time for a teachers' union joke if I were still in the high schools.

which is one of the reasons that the Democratic explanation that it was Kerry/Gore/Dukakis's fault that they lost isn't really all that convincing to me.


We have covered this and will have to agree to disagree. It is not that "W is a dynamo" but more that "Kerry and Gore are stiffs." I caught the the end of Charlie Rose last night, and one of the talking heads said that in his exp, the candidate who "connects" with undecided voters late in the game will win. That is kind of simplistic, but in my exp charisma is huge. Reagan was quite conservative but was able to convince a lot of people who weren't that he was the guy to lead the country. I think if you put Reagan's platform with John Kerry's podium "presence" you get a guy who likely beats Carter and Mondale, but not by as much. Like I said upthread, I don't think many pople sit around really thinking about the federal government much except in election years, around April 15, and when we are at war. And how often do most people really see the president for more than a minute or so at a time once he is elected?

The other thing--which I think is mostly out of pres' control--is how the economy is seen to be doing at the time. That is huge, too ("peace and prosperity") but I think a lot of voters do look quite a bit at personality--more than they admit.
   3243. kevin Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:46 AM (#2929822)
No doubt, robin. And the republicans recognize that Obama has charisma and McCain doesn't. So the Rove-sters are trying a tried and true attack technique- converting a positive into a negative. Hence, the Britney Spears ad.

It seems to have backfired on them though. If anything, that ad made McCain look desperate and highlighted McCain's lack of appeal.
   3244. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:49 AM (#2929825)
What faults are you speaking of with respect to Bush I? Aside from the (R) by his name, I'd have thought he'd be relatively well thought of by liberals. He was no bible beater, was a foreign policy realist, not a chickenhawk (or really all that much of a hawk at all), and actually raised taxes.

I confess, Dubya has given me a renewed appreciation for both Reagan and Bush I.
   3245. Ryan Jones Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:49 AM (#2929826)
By the way, an honest question; What faults are you speaking of with respect to Bush I?


Sorry, I should have been clearer - I meant that Bush II was a more dynamic speaker than Gore or Kerry.

With respect to Bush I, I don't remember having any major problems with the way he generally did things, but it's not easy to remember many aspects of his policy from 20 years ago. I do appreciate, however, that he did recognize what a disaster a full-scale invasion of Iraq would be.

Keep in mind as well that this is the opinion of a non-American, so the decisions made by him (or any other American elected official) didn't impact me nearly as directly.
   3246. Moscow Hiding In The Shadows Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:50 AM (#2929827)
Besides, [Dukakis] completely dropped the ball on law-and-order questions, which was the biggest issue of the day.

This is Wiki's summary of that defining moment:

The issue of capital punishment came up in the October 13, 1988 debate between the two presidential nominees. Because she knew the Willie Horton issue would be brought up, Dukakis's campaign manager Susan Estrich had prepared with Bill Clinton an answer highlighting the candidate's empathy for victims of crime, noting the beating of his father in a robbery and the death of his brother in a hit-and-run car accident. However, when Bernard Shaw, the moderator of the debate, asked Dukakis, "Governor, if Kitty Dukakis [his wife] were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?" Dukakis replied coolly, "No, I don't, and I think you know that I've opposed the death penalty during all of my life," and explained his stance. After the debate, Dukakis told Estrich he was sorry and didn't realize it was that question.


A day or two after that debate, a black customer of mine (with a black sense of humor) and I were talking about what Dukakis should have said. Me, I just noted the obvious, which is that since Dukakis had a long record of being against the death penalty, there wasn't much he could have done other than choosing his words better.

But this customer was having none of that. He said it didn't matter what Dukakis had said before that, since Shaw had asked him about "his own f*ck*ng wife."

He said, "If it'd been me, I would've looked that goddam Bernard Shaw straight in the eye and said, 'I'd do just what you'd do, Bernie---I'd a taken that n*gg*r and strapped him to the electric chair my GODdam self!' I bet THAT would've won him the election right there."

Of course this was a bit easier for him to say than it would've been for Dukakis, but it was definitely food for thought.
   3247. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:52 AM (#2929830)
just out of curiosity RR. are you required to work the phone banks for the Dems.
I have spoken to a number of teachers in the this district, and they routinely tell me the Union requires them to work the democratic phone banks, regardless of their political leanings.


I have a strong suspicion you made this up, or perhaps those teachers are on the same hallucinogens as you. I confess, though, envisioning being trapped on a Democratic phone bank is not your typical acid flashback.

Then again, we have Walmart management flaks telling their employees their jobs'll get sucked up by the evil specter of unionization if they don't vote Republican, so I suppose turnabout is fair play.
   3248. zonk Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:53 AM (#2929831)
I wish Sarah Palin the best of luck campaigning from an undisclosed bunker where no one can ask her questions.

I'm sure the media will back off because the campaign has decided to make her inaccessible.
   3249. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:57 AM (#2929835)
If anything, that ad made McCain look desperate and highlighted McCain's lack of appeal.

Yeah, the "you should dislike my opponent because he's so popular" line of attack's a little odd.
   3250. retro-shiite Posted: September 05, 2008 at 10:59 AM (#2929839)
I wish Sarah Palin the best of luck campaigning from an undisclosed bunker where no one can ask her questions.

zonk, your evident sarcasm (and your implication that Palin might try to dodge the press) merely outs you as the raging sexist that you are. Female voters (who were attuned to sexism during the Hillary Clinton campaign) will not tolerate your sexist attacks on Gov. Palin.
   3251. kevin Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:00 AM (#2929841)
I wish Sarah Palin the best of luck campaigning from an undisclosed bunker where no one can ask her questions.


She'll have to be interviewed at some point. She just can't avoid that.

Campbell Brown is obviously off the table now. The Republicans are deathly afraid of her after the way she ############ Tucker Bounds. But they might agree to Katie Couric and Katie will mop the floor with her.
   3252. Guapo Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:03 AM (#2929843)
I wish Sarah Palin the best of luck campaigning from an undisclosed bunker where no one can ask her questions.

She's attempting to simulate the McCain POW experience so that she's better qualified to run the country.
   3253. Ryan Jones Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:11 AM (#2929848)
Ray, I'm impressed by the accuracy of your description of McCain's speech. However, you did miss a very important component, and that component is "creepy grin". Seriously, it looks like he learned how to smile from a book without pictures.
   3254. zonk Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:12 AM (#2929850)

She's attempting to simulate the McCain POW experience so that she's better qualified to run the country.


Wait... what's this... John McCain was a POW?

Why hasn't he and his campaign told anyone about this? Seems like it would be a great way to change the subject from the economy, 3/4 of a trillion dollars pissed away in Iraq, and his (18)80s social views.

Why, he might even be able to use it as a shield to turn aside questions about owning a dozen homes or being able to afford basic health care.
   3255. JC in DC Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:17 AM (#2929861)
I like K.I.T. Since I've got Kevin on ignore, I get a filtered, relatively crisp update on what he's thinking. Pretty cool.
   3256. kevin Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:20 AM (#2929865)
I regard it as a high compliment that I'm the only one at BTF who has actually convinced someone they should post solely as my own personal troll.

That's prestige, man. Prestige.
   3257. robinred Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:26 AM (#2929872)
3230 was nice.

And so's your mom.
   3258. The Good Face Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:29 AM (#2929878)
Since I've got Kevin on ignore, I get a filtered, relatively crisp update on what he's thinking.


And this is valuable because...?
   3259. Moscow Hiding In The Shadows Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:30 AM (#2929879)
For those who don't get the Washington Post, the Tom Toles cartoon in today's paper is the best summary of McCain / Palin the "change" candidates you'll ever see:

---Watch out, Mr. Bush!

With the exception of economic policy and energy policy and social issues and tax policy and foreign policy and Supreme Court appointments and Rove-style politics,

we're coming in there to shake things up!
   3260. kevin Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:32 AM (#2929881)
Since I've got Kevin on ignore


JC's "inner wimp" emerges.
   3261. Moscow Hiding In The Shadows Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:39 AM (#2929887)
Since I've got Kevin on ignore


We'll notify JC when the next steroids thread begins, and he and Kevin are playing Bush and McCain with each other once again. (smile)
   3262. Chip Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:51 AM (#2929896)
Remember the part of the speech last night when the closeup shot put McCain against the same sort of sickly green background that was such a disaster in one of his speeches earlier this year? That in the wide angle shot turned out to be the lawn of what appeared at first glance to be an Italian palazzo on Lake Como, inserted into the slideshow of stirring patriotic images which were supposed to echo the text of the speech? None of the close observers last night could figure out what it was, or what message it was supposed to be sending. Turns out it was Walter Reed Middle School in North Hollywood, CA. Speculation is that some tech tasked with searching the stock photo databases for the imagery screwed up when looking for a shot of Walter Reed Army Medical Center:

Mystery Solved!
   3263. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:52 AM (#2929899)
I've been away, and I only just got a chance to catch up on the GOP speeches.

What struck me was, first and foremost, that they weren't offering domestic policy. They attacked Obama on character, and characterized his policies as "big government" and "high taxes". They offered, as an alternative, school choice, oil drilling, oil drilling, tax cuts, drilling, and LOTS OF DRILLING. I guess that the campaign decided that running on positive policies was going to be impossible, and that running away from George W. Bush substantively was going to be impossible, and they would just go out there and hope no one noticed they didn't respond in any way to the critique offered during the Dem convention.

This might work. Or, better, given my general belief that structural factors determine presidential election outcomes, the situation of Americans might be such that on election day they don't need a strong differentiation between McCain's and Bush's republican party to vote McCain. I think it's unlikely that the underlying factors that basically determine outcomes will shift, but they could - the world is really complicated.

They gave a number of good speeches - Palin in particular can unload an attack effectively - but it's weird to see the Democrats devote their convention to (a) tying McCain to Bush and (b) offering domestic policy, and the Republicans a week later not differentiate themselves on domestic policy.

EDIT: I should add that both parties put forward substantive foreign policy outlooks, which differ in important ways, but were both put forward clearly to the American people. It's on domestic policy where there was a major asymmetry, I thought.
   3264. Chip Posted: September 05, 2008 at 11:59 AM (#2929907)
As linked by Andrew Sullivan: Todd Palin's former business partner just filed an emergency motion to get his divorce papers sealed. Looks like the judge denied it:

Link

Something the vetters should have caught, if there were any vetters?
   3265. Kiko Sakata Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:04 PM (#2929914)
As linked by Andrew Sullivan: Todd Palin's former business partner just filed an emergency motion to get his divorce papers sealed. Looks like the judge denied it.


My best guess is that there's nothing to this, but it's sort of interesting in that Barack Obama won his U.S. Senate seat on the basis of unsealed divorce papers (in both the primary and general election actually).
   3266. Backlasher Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:05 PM (#2929916)
I like K.I.T.

Did you see the one where he met his evil twin K.A.R.R?

catching up...Ryan Jones

The Canadian Backlasher. I bet he could sell that one to TNA wrestling.

... watching WWE...

In the spirit of this election season, i am tryin to reach the masses. If I start pulling out Nikki Roxx or Ring of Honor references, then only Szym and maybe two or three others would get it.

A little one-sided, don't you think? There are costs for requiring "some procedure" that you're not mentioning here. That process may make the product more expensive, more scarce, or entirely unavailable. The product may indeed be dangerous, but may provide some benefits that certain individuals feel is a worthwhile trade-off.


Which "costs" are you referring too? The majority of the price of medication is due to the fact that the manufacturers get govt. grants of patent and therefore a limited monopoly. The majority of the amount of supply of medication is due to the fact that the manufacturers get govt. grants of patent and therefore a limited monopoly.
If there is some other social cost you are referring too, you will need to state it more precisely. As for what you do state:

(1) Trade Off

As previously mentioned, the consumer can make that trade off. Its pretty rare, especially sinc 1989, that the FDA is going to affect a consumer from being able to access the drug. Its just going to require a procedure. If the consumer can't get the drug, then its usually because price and supply (as previously discussed). Sometimes the inability to obtain the drug is because the manufacturer knows its too dangerous and they are worried about liability.

But if you are talking about the risk tradeoff of: (1) obtaining a drug prone to abuse for a non-therapeutic, euphoric property v. (2) I'm happy to die at 35 if I can get ripped at 18; then that one isn't currently allowed. We can debate whether it should be allowed, but that is entirely independent of the function of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act and the regulatory agency that enforces it.

It's not so easy when the drug is AZT and it is withheld from terminal patients when there are no alternatives.

What are you basing this statement on? AZT is a highly toxic drug. It was invented in 1964 for cancer and shelved because its toxicity. When BW dug it out in 1985, it was available experimentally pretty quickly. If some patients didn't get it, it was mainly because BW was just keeping supply low and jacking costs. Moreover, AIDS is probably not the exempler becuase the AIDS epidemic did lead to the FDA fast tracking two drugs in 1989 because of need. One of the drugs was licensed for general marketing without any clinical pre-trial whatsoever.

Or when the same agency contributes to the ban on marijuana when it's more effective with fewer serious side-effects than alternatives for certain conditions.

As previously mentioned, the FDA does not schedule drugs. I'm not sure what you think you mean by "contribute"

Or when the drug is Vioxx and people are led to believe it is safe because of the agency's endorsement.

Endorsement? The FDA does not endorse anything. To my knowledge, in their history, they have only allowed an endorsement to appear once; that was on a food item when there was large consumer confusion over problems with the supply.

In many cases, to even imply an FDA endorsement is per se misbranding and actionable at administrative, federal and state law.
   3267. kevin Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:07 PM (#2929918)
As linked by Andrew Sullivan: Todd Palin's former business partner just filed an emergency motion to get his divorce papers sealed. Looks like the judge denied it:


I'll take Adultery and Infidelity for 500, Alex.
   3268. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:08 PM (#2929920)
Turns out it was Walter Reed Middle School in North Hollywood, CA. Speculation is that some tech tasked with searching the stock photo databases for the imagery screwed up when looking for a shot of Walter Reed Army Medical Center:

And how long is it until Kos or MoveOn or somewhere go OMG MCCAIN DIDNT EVEN VET HIS POWERPOINT ART DIRECTOR! OMG! BLAAAAAAAAAARGGGGH!!!!
   3269. flournoy Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:09 PM (#2929921)
They characterized [Obama's] policies as "big government" and "high taxes".


Curious scare quotes there. Today is "Friday," the "fifth" day of September.

They offered, as an alternative, school choice, oil drilling, oil drilling, tax cuts, drilling, and LOTS OF DRILLING. I guess that the campaign decided that running on positive policies was going to be impossible


School choice: Positive
Oil drilling: Positive
Tax cuts: Positive
   3270. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:14 PM (#2929925)
School choice: Positive
Oil drilling: Positive
Tax cuts: Positive


MCoA's view is that "positive" means "something person with a 'D' next to their name proposes." Therefore, the Republicans would be completely unable to offer anything "positive" as they all have the letter 'R' next to their names.
   3271. SouthSideRyan(CASEY'S GONE!!) Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:14 PM (#2929926)
I'll take Adultery and Infidelity for 500, Alex.


Hanging curveball.
   3272. zonk Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:17 PM (#2929931)
My best guess is that there's nothing to this, but it's sort of interesting in that Barack Obama won his U.S. Senate seat on the basis of unsealed divorce papers (in both the primary and general election actually).


I don't know if I'd say "basis" -- despite Hull's primary issues, there was also Dan Hynes in that primary, and Obama still won a majority (not a plurality) in the primary final tally.

In the GE - no poll showed Ryan within 10 pts of Obama.

I'm not saying he wasn't helped by these external events -- but I find a lot of fault with chalking up either Obama's primary win or his GE lead against Ryan to external events.
   3273. OCF Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:22 PM (#2929937)
Cool - I know a bunch of kids who went to Walter Reed MS (and then North Hollywood HS). Math contest kids.
   3274. Backlasher Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:25 PM (#2929942)
And how long is it until Kos or MoveOn or somewhere go OMG MCCAIN DIDNT EVEN VET HIS POWERPOINT ART DIRECTOR! OMG! BLAAAAAAAAAARGGGGH!!!!

Why, its much easier and scarier to point out that you don't want the old geezer to mistake Moscow, Idaho for Moscow, Russia when he decides to push the bright red button. In fact, the rel reason that Palin was added to the ticket was to help him be able to tell the difference between the two.
   3275. aleskel Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:25 PM (#2929944)
That has to be one of the most disjointed political speech I've ever seen. It honestly looked like McCain was reading it for the first time (McCain can be enjoyable when he's off the cuff, but he's an AWFUL orator). To me it sounded like he was suggesting all the country's problems would be solved by drilling and community colleges. Huh?
   3276. Lassus Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:26 PM (#2929945)
And how long is it until Kos or MoveOn or somewhere go OMG MCCAIN DIDNT EVEN VET HIS POWERPOINT ART DIRECTOR! OMG! BLAAAAAAAAAARGGGGH!!!!

Breathe, Dan, breathe.

Seriously, what are you making fun/mocking here? Kos and MoveOn, or all of us in general? Who's vetting other than the possible leader of the free world have we been worried about?
   3277. Bull Pain Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:27 PM (#2929947)
I still think Jack Ryan should have stayed in the race and taken his defeat with dignity. He had some sketchy campaign stuff, but he seemed like a decent enough fellow. Of course, he's the prototypical horrible elitist considering he's a Harvard business and law school grad and was able to ask Jeri Ryan the same questions any reasonable man would have asked.
   3278. Backlasher Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:32 PM (#2929952)
I still think Jack Ryan should have stayed in the race and taken his defeat with dignity. He had some sketchy campaign stuff, but he seemed like a decent enough fellow. Of course, he's the prototypical horrible elitist considering he's a Harvard business and law school grad and was able to ask Jeri Ryan the same questions any reasonable man would have asked.


I thought Jack Ryan went to BC, and he did become president after Durling was killed during the kamikaze attack on the Capitol building in Debt of Honor.
   3279. robinred Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:32 PM (#2929953)
Seriously, what are you making fun/mocking here? Kos and MoveOn, or all of us in general? Who's vetting other than the possible leader of the free world have we been worried


We all have our little issues. Mine is "BTF liberal bias." Dan's is "intense vitriol aimed at Bush" although Dan himself does not much like W.
   3280. Lassus Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:35 PM (#2929955)
Dan's is "intense vitriol aimed at Bush" although Dan himself does not much like W.

What does Bush have to do with Walter Reed and McCain's powerpoint operator?
   3281. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:36 PM (#2929957)
Seriously, what are you making fun/mocking here? Kos and MoveOn, or all of us in general? Who's vetting other than the possible leader of the free world have we been worried about?

Mostly Kos and a few people here who have really gone off the deep end with the Palin nomination (although one or two were already off the deep end, I guess).

It drives me nuts that the people in the previous paragraph have actually led me to agree with something written by Jonah ####### Goldberg.
   3282. Backlasher Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:39 PM (#2929958)
What does Bush have to do with Walter Reed and McCain's powerpoint operator?


Maybe next time the video guy will use this clip.
   3283. Kiko Sakata Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:40 PM (#2929959)
I don't know if I'd say "basis" -- despite Hull's primary issues, there was also Dan Hynes in that primary, and Obama still won a majority (not a plurality) in the primary final tally.

In the GE - no poll showed Ryan within 10 pts of Obama.

I'm not saying he wasn't helped by these external events -- but I find a lot of fault with chalking up either Obama's primary win or his GE lead against Ryan to external events.


You're right, zonk. I overstated the importance of both of these events (especially Ryan's). I was just struck by the fact that unsealed divorce papers are making an appearance in another Obama campaign.
   3284. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:41 PM (#2929961)
Dan's is "intense vitriol aimed at Bush" although Dan himself does not much like W.

Not like much is an understatement, I dislike Dubya with a passion. I just think his place in history in the worst quartile of presidents should be determined by the examination of his pros and cons, not kneejerk, black-helicopter stuff every time he farts.
   3285. robinred Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:42 PM (#2929964)
What does Bush have to do with Walter Reed and McCain's powerpoint operator
?

Nothing, but it's the same idea--liberals are shrill and wacky and dumb and petty and over-the-top as shown by the ranting about W.
   3286. flournoy Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:44 PM (#2929968)
liberals are shrill and wacky and dumb and petty and over-the-top


Ahh... I see we finally come to an agreement.
   3287. Danny Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:45 PM (#2929969)
n/m
   3288. Lassus Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:47 PM (#2929971)
Seeing as how protesters in the early century and even 1800's have chanted loudly about presidential candidates' illegitimate children among other things, I can't see how anything that has been said about Palin is over the top at all. It's the regular stuff. McCain already called Barack "Osama" once (even if a freudian slip), so spare me.
   3289. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:49 PM (#2929973)
Seeing as how protesters in the past have chanted loudly about presidential candidates' illegitimate children among other things, I can't see how anything that has been said about Palin is over the top at all. It's the regular stuff. McCain already called Barack "Osama" once (even if a freudian slip), so spare me.

Have you read half the things Kevin and Alex have said in this thread? I'm not sure why dumbass chanting about Thomas Jefferson's illegitimate black children gives the people here, right now a free pass to act like complete schmucks.
   3290. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:50 PM (#2929975)
"Something the vetters should have caught, if there were any vetters?"

They said a few days ago (Wednesday, maybe?) that all the potential issues they knew about had already come out. So if there is anything to the Enquirer story (I'm skeptical, but after Edwards I guess you never know), then it's something they didn't know about.
   3291. Dag Nabbit Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:52 PM (#2929977)
Jack Ryan was the ultimately toolsy candidate. On paper he looked like he could be something. There was one problem - the man himself was a schmuck.

He was well-educated, well-groomed version of William H. Macy's Fargo character. They both had all these plans and schemes, and if everyone just did what the schemer wanted them to, it would work out fine. Problem: they never did.

My favorite memories of Ryan's brief campaign: he hired someone with a video camera to follow around Barak Obama all the time - even when he went to public bathrooms. Ryan caught flack for that and gained nothing (turns out Obama goes to the bathroom - that'll help the campaign!). Ryan initially defended it on the basis of saying any public figure should expect such scrutiny -- which makes his own efforts to seal his divorce a bit humorous.

Another good one -- Cheney was going to fly in for a fundraiser. Ryan had it all planned out - he'd meet Cheney at the airport runner with the brass band and the banners and all that jazz. Problem: Midway couldn't facilitate it. The airport was too small. Though it's the minor airport, it was closer to the downtown hotel Cheney was staying at. Meigs, for various other sundry reasons (makes a great anti-Daley story, but it's off topic) wasn't availble. That left O'Hare. However, Cheney's office nixed that one, for fears the story would be VP motorcade screws up traffic throughout much of Chicago area because he didn't go to the closer airport. Ryan was out of luck, but he wasn't going to take it lying down. He made up several wild claims, saying that free speech itself was at stake, the powers that be were out to get him . . . . The story didn't get much play, but it made him look like a fool.

Then there's the divorce papers themselves. The most interesting angle came from Eric Zorn. In an off-the-record talk he had with Ryan before the papers came out, Zorn and Ryan had an interesting exchanges. Zorn mentioned that he had a developmentally disabled child, and he heard Ryan's son was as well. Was that the reason Ryan wanted to keep the divorce record so tightly sealed? Ryan looked him in the eye and assured him that was it exactly. There's just something so fundamentally scuzzy about hiding behind a disabled child.

'course there's also how Ryan lied to the party bosses about how there were no skeletons hin his closet when they agreed to back him for the job . . .

At any rate, even without this, Obama would've won. He had a 15-point lead in the polls, it's Illinois. All he had to do was run a quality campaign. Say what you will about Obama, he can do that.
   3292. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:53 PM (#2929978)
"not sure why dumbass chanting about Thomas Jefferson's illegitimate black children"

I think he was actually referring to Grover Cleveland and the "Ma, Ma, where's my PA?" thing. Not that it'd affect your point all that much either way.
   3293. Lassus Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:54 PM (#2929979)
Have you read half the things Kevin and Alex have said in this thread?

Don't make me bring up Red Juice. There are problems on either side.


:-) Nice call, Vlad. And I didn't do the research, but I'm sure there have been others, and worse. Think of poor Taft and the fat jokes. Palin's getting off easy.
   3294. JPWF13 Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:55 PM (#2929980)
gives the people here, right now a free pass to act like complete schmucks.


I believe the 1st Amendment does that....

well actually it doesn't, Furtado is well within his rights to shut this off at any time.
   3295. robinred Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:57 PM (#2929984)
Ahh... I see we finally come to an agreement.


Bipartisanship is what I am all about.
   3296. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 05, 2008 at 12:58 PM (#2929987)
Just made it back to Red Juice's mini-filibuster and, uh, wow. They probably make some kind of medicine for that...

All that stuff about blending babies made me think about this.
   3297. David Nieporent Posted: September 05, 2008 at 01:02 PM (#2929990)
I wish Sarah Palin the best of luck campaigning from an undisclosed bunker where no one can ask her questions.
You know, if I want to read DNC talking points, I can go to their website. It's the great orator Obama who can't handle non-teleprompter speaking, remember?
   3298. JPWF13 Posted: September 05, 2008 at 01:05 PM (#2929993)
You know, if I want to read DNC talking points, I can go to their website.


says Mr. RNC Talking Points himself.
   3299. Lefty, Monty, And The Moose (Walewander) Posted: September 05, 2008 at 01:05 PM (#2929994)
David, I'm a little confused as to why a staunch libertarian like yourself would support the current incarnation of the Republican party so vehemently. Wouldn't the wasteful spending, wiretapping, and general disregard for civil liberties and the Constitution be a dealbreaker for you?

Or is it just about keep taxes and social spending down?
   3300. robinred Posted: September 05, 2008 at 01:05 PM (#2929995)
You know, if I want to read DNC talking points, I can go to their website
.

Well-put. Put an "R" instead of a "D" and remember it and we can all have better discussions--and that includes the 2nd sentence of #3300.
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