Wow, I'm not surprised that Krueger was fired, but Bob Agnew's been a fixture at KNBR for nearly two decades. He's been the architect of the station, which really blossomed during his tenure. I am willing to bet that there was more behind this then just the Krueger incident.

The whole morning crew's pretty mediocre. I don't think that they're a full year into the post-John London era, but my guess would be that Liotta/Murphy are not long for the airwaves. Its been nearly a decade since Mike retired, and they still never managed to replace the Frank and Mike show in the mornings--a failure that may have been one of the major nails in Agnew's coffin.

Yeah, I am surprised too. Agnew was the architect behind KNBR's glory days with Franklin, Ferrell, The Razor, etc. - in the mid 90s they were America's highest rated sports station, even surpassing WFAN. Heck, I remember Chris Russo doing a VERY long gig on KNBR (must have been a month). Perhaps it was contract time and he seriously considered moving?

They are still a damn sight better than the John London era...talk about unlistenable!

Alou's comments should have been ridiculed, as they are ridiculous!

BTW, here's KNBR's statement in its entirety.

If anyone has the link to the morning show bit, I'd be very interested in hearing it. I'm sure it was pretty funny, but completely inappropriate. I can't believe that the producer thought that would fly in the current enviornment.

Well, now I know where Moises gets it from. Booo Alou!

Alou 1, Messenger of Satan 0.

Alou still finds himself 8.5 back of the Padres, though, who presumably, by virtue of their name, have more experience in the Satan-defeating business...

/lame joke
:P

Alou appeared on ESPN’s “Outside the Lines” program Monday night and called Krueger “this messenger of Satan.”

Is it possible to say that Krueger is a jackass and, quite possibly, a racist who should be fired, without calling him a "messenger of Satan"? Alou has every right to be offended. But that's one of the more hyperbolic statements I've heard lately. You'd think the Prince of Darkness would be up to more substantive evil than this.

You'd think the Prince of Darkness would be up to more substantive evil than this.

Well, the Dark Lord figured that even his Yankees had won enough...

I hope Krueger at least got to enjoy himself in Auerbach's Cellar before Mephistopheles got him fired.

According to a friend who used to work at KNBR, apparently Agnew resigned rather than carry out instructions to fire Krueger. If so, my respect for the guy has increased. He recognized this situation for what it was: an isolated incident involving a very poor choice of words during an excited diatribe. And he stood by his guy on a matter as a principle.

Is it possible to say that Krueger is a jackass and, quite possibly, a racist who should be fired, without calling him a "messenger of Satan"? Alou has every right to be offended.

Alou, by bringing up religion in responding to the statements these last few days, will probably make HIMSELF the next Bay Area columnist target :P

I'm so sick of people being offended. Seriously, grow up Alou. People will insult you. People will make references to nationality, race, gender, sexual preference, and religion. Get used to it.

I'm so sick of people being offended. Seriously, grow up Alou. People will insult you. People will make references to nationality, race, gender, sexual preference, and religion. Get used to it.

Alright, you try being black in the 1960s South.

I can't believe how idiotic the morning show producer was. Krueger at least had the "heat of the moment" defense for his remarks, regardless of how crappy such a defense is. Tony Rhein dug his own grave here.

I don't think there's anything grown up about remaining silent when people toss insults and racial slurs at you.

I've been a guest on Larry's show many times, and he's always been gracious and reasonable during my segments. It's easy to forget that this "messenger of Satan" has a family and probably a mortgage, and is no doubt mortified to hear and read what people are saying (and, presumably, thinking) about him. In the annals of human kindness and forgiveness, this was not a good day. Not a good day at all.

Larry's a pro, though, and he'll land on his feet.

So was this guy part of Satan's entourage?

Alright, you try being black in the 1960s South.

I agree, but what was bad then wasn't necessarily insults (although many people were offended by that, and rightfully so) but the physical abuse. I myself would not (and do not) mind any insult thrown my way. I just want equal opportunities in terms of jobs, etc. You might say both are not possible and that's true in some situations. I'm not sure if it applies to Alou though. If I wasn't a racial majority though, my view could be different.

That's good to know, Rob. I hope Larry will do okay.

I can't believe how idiotic the morning show producer was. Krueger at least had the "heat of the moment" defense for his remarks, regardless of how crappy such a defense is. Tony Rhein dug his own grave here.

I don't think there's anything grown up about remaining silent when people toss insults and racial slurs at you.

Sort of like when someone says you are the messenger of satan?

So was this guy part of Satan's entourage?

So what's the over/under until this guy gets brought into the picture?

(His playerID is 666? Someone's got a sense of humor - that can't be coincidence)

Damn, NTN, I thought for sure there was going to be a Chris Truby reference. The player ID 666 would have been much funnier there.

I keep waiting for him to be traded to the Devils.

The player ID 666 would have been much funnier there

Yeah, but a guy whose last name is Satan having a playerID of 666 is still pretty amusing.

Also, considering his presumed unfamiliarity with frozen surfaces, it's surprising that Satan is a well-above average forward....

Also, considering his presumed unfamiliarity with frozen surfaces, it's surprising that Satan is a well-above average forward....

According to Dante, Satan is actually encased in ice. At least partially.

Also, considering his presumed unfamiliarity with frozen surfaces, it's surprising that Satan is a well-above average forward....

Unless you believe in Dante's version of Hell.

crap. beat me.

Not so fast, my friend. [/Lee Corso]

Larry's a pro, though, and he'll land on his feet.

And whichever city is fortunate enough to get him will be getting a very thoughtful and insightful radio host. I'm really disappointed that circumstances unfolded in such a way as to prevent Krueger from returning. KNBR is certainly worse off for his departure.

Same thing goes for Bob Agnew. I'm not sure if he'd have any interest in relocating to another city at this point in his life (I believe that he's in his late 50s), so maybe he'll just retire. But if he does decide to undertake another sports radio station rebuilding project, I'm sure that he'll improve it. Bay Area sports fan owe him a great debt for making KNBR what it is today.

According to Dante, Satan is actually encased in ice.

True, but I was going with the more mainstream view of hell. Otherwise, the joke DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE :P

Alright, you try being black in the 1960s South.

Fine, Felipe's rancor is justifyable, that doesn't mean everyone around has to pander to it. I don't pretend to understand what is was like to be a minority in the the 1960's South, but this is the twenty-first century aughts, and comments that could very credibly be attributed to unbridled vitriolic bigotry in the 1960's South can be very credibly attributed to foolish heat of the moment gaffe today. Especially when the offender has absolutely no track record of racism, a fact attested to by Rod Brooks, KNBR host and African American who said on the air Monday, "I have worked with Larry for eight years and I can say that he is not a racist."

True, but I was going with the more mainstream view of hell. Otherwise, the joke DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE :P

Yeah, but the Sixth Tool and I are snotty snot jerks.

Do you think the situation could have been salvaged/defused if KNBR had given Krueger a longer suspension, right off the bat?

Good ol' Dante's Hell, what with Satan encased in ice and chomping on Judas, Cassius, and Brutus...

Yeah, but the Sixth Tool and I are snotty snot jerks

Well, of course...

Using the Dante version would read completely different:

Also, considering his familiarity with frozen surfaces, it's not surprising that Satan is a well-above average forward, although one wonders why it took so long for the Lord of Darkness to conjure up a simple freaking ice pick.

Do you think the situation could have been salvaged/defused if KNBR had given Krueger a longer suspension, right off the bat?


I don't think so. The Bay Area loves nothing more than to make mountains out of molehills, especially on hotbutton issues like race relations. Plus, Krueger had long been a thorn in the Giants' side, so I'm sure they saw this as an opportunity to remove the local pain in the arse. For Sport, KNBR is the only show in town, so the bay area is no devoid of radio hosts critical of the Giants. Also, perhaps coincidentally, or perhaps not, Krueger was the biggest A's pumper on the station. I don't listen that much, but most of the other hosts praise Beane's success (how can they not, especially with the Giants as an obvious foil?) but fall over themselves to fault his method, Kruger was the only one who I think really drank the saber/moneyball kool aid.

It really does seem like everyone went overboard here. While I don't think the "Caribbean" thing was appropriate, it was a mistake, not something that should be a career-ending or even a job-ending catastrophe.

Do you think the situation could have been salvaged/defused if KNBR had given Krueger a longer suspension, right off the bat?

Actually, I think it might have been defused more by the station not suspending Krueger at all. By issuing the one week suspension, the station essentially stipulated that his comments were racist, rather than simply poorly worded. Once you take the step of classifying them as racist, then its really hard for the situation not to end with the guy's termination. Also, the suspension just added fuel to the story. If KNBR hadn't suspended him in the first place, I don't know if OTLN is interviewing Alou in its feature piece.

The only way that Krueger could have kept his job is if he apologizes but then the station considers the matter closed. The only purpose that the one week suspension achieved was to help keep the story in the headlines for a full week. And after that much bad publicity (plus the morning show's absolutely, amazingly stupidly-timed parody), the station had no other feasible choice but to terminate Krueger.

I really don't know if anything could have spared Krueger after his comments. But I'm fairly certain that a longer suspension wouldn't have accomplished much, especially if its partial purpose was to satisfy Alou and other outraged members of the Latino community.

Fine, Felipe's rancor is justifyable, that doesn't mean everyone around has to pander to it. I don't pretend to understand what is was like to be a minority in the the 1960's South, but this is the twenty-first century aughts, and comments that could very credibly be attributed to unbridled vitriolic bigotry in the 1960's South can be very credibly attributed to foolish heat of the moment gaffe today. Especially when the offender has absolutely no track record of racism, a fact attested to by Rod Brooks, KNBR host and African American who said on the air Monday, "I have worked with Larry for eight years and I can say that he is not a racist."

don't put words in my mouth, dude. i am pretty clearly on record in the previous thread as saying i didn't think krueger should be fired. but i don't agree with the thought that felipe should casually just brush off racist comments and 'grow up'. felipe's been through more #### than any cracker on this board (including me) has been through regarding race. i'll let felipe decided when and when he shouldn't grow up.

knbr had every means available to stand up to the giants - and they probably would have won as the giants would be on a 5,000 watt or worse station had they decided to leave knbr - but chose not to. their fault. it sucks for kreuger, who is good, and it sucks for the fans, because other than the razor, no one is even remotely critical of the giants. but it's knbr's fault.

that last sentence in the first paragraph sucks.

i'll let felipe decide when he should and when he shouldn't grow up. there, that sounds better.

I'd be pleased as punch if Bob 'n Larry came to fix WKNR. Coughcough. Hinthint.

Especially when the offender has absolutely no track record of racism, a fact attested to by Rod Brooks, KNBR host and African American who said on the air Monday, "I have worked with Larry for eight years and I can say that he is not a racist."

More proof that context has become irrelevant to modern society.

As you may know, late on August 3, Sportsphone 680 Host Larry Krueger made regrettable comments about Caribbean baseball players in lamenting the Giants' loss to the Colorado Rockies. In the heat of describing his disappointment with the Giants' season, Krueger characterized some of the players by their nationality and made a wholly inappropriate analogy. The following day, Krueger apologized on the air for his remarks, which were unacceptable under any circumstances, and requested the opportunity to apologize personally to Giants manager Felipe Alou. On August 5, KNBR suspended Krueger for one week without pay, while weighing the gravity of his offense.

On August 9, the KNBR Morning Show opened with a discussion of Felipe Alou's related comments on ESPN's Outside the Lines, which aired the previous evening. The segment, featuring inappropriate comedy sound bytes, demonstrated an utter lack of regard for the sensitivity of the issues involved and a premeditated intent to ridicule Felipe Alou's commentary.

KNBR will not tolerate such behavior and has taken decisive action against the individuals responsible for these unfortunate events. Effective August 10, Program Manager Bob Agnew, Morning Show Producer Tony Rhein and Sportsphone 680 Host Larry Krueger are no longer employed by KNBR.

KNBR deeply regrets the comments and actions of these individuals, which do not reflect our beliefs or values as an organization. We would like to express our deepest apologies to Felipe Alou, his players and the Giants organization for this offense to the Caribbean community.

from KNBR.com

I guess there was a little more to this than just the original comment. Sounds like the morning guy threw Krueger and (maybe)Agnew under the bus.

And Larry, please come out here to Tampa and get Dan Sileo off our morning sports show. Sileo alone was enough to get me to buy my XM radio.

Way to be the bigger man, Felipe

Even I, the artist formerly known as Malcolm Little, who is one of the more "radical" Primates in terms of race, perhaps, wouldn't have had Krueger fired.

Good ol' Dante's Hell, what with Satan encased in ice and chomping on Judas, Cassius, and Brutus...

Yeah, good times... good times...

I wonder how much Krueger needed to get along with the team, though, to do his job. I never heard of him before this incident, and I don't know whether or not say he travelled with the team. He wouldn't get any interviews with the team now, and he would not get the inside scoop (e.g., I talked with Alfonso today, and he told me his wrist is paining him but he's shortened his stroke, blah blah blah). I wonder to what extent this sort of thing mattered to the station here when it became clear that the manager and at least one player would never forgive him.

I couldn't agree with Neyer more here. It's a sign of progress when people DON'T get fired for minor mistakes like this . . .

"So what's the over/under until this guy gets brought into the picture?

(His playerID is 666? Someone's got a sense of humor - that can't be coincidence) "

That's the funniest thing I've seen in awhile. As mentioned earlier, if one of the baseball guys at yahoo reads this and could give Truby that ID, my head might actually explode with laughter . . . I checked and it is still available!

If it makes any difference to what is being said here, I do know a guy who's worked with Kreuger quite a bit and by his account Mr. Kreuger is a world class prick. All that he's done or been accused of is hardly a surprise to me.

I don't think I could get away with insulting racist comments that offended my clients and others I work and deal with. I'd be fired too and rightfully so. I don't get the Krueger love. Of course I'd never dream of saying what Krueger said, because, well it's racist, stupid and not merely poorly worded. But I guess that's just me.

Also, perhaps coincidentally, or perhaps not, Krueger was the biggest A's pumper on the station.

Which is why during the past off-season, Krueger was raving about how Brian Sabean had obviously done a great job getting the Giants ready for this next season, and said the only reason that Beane wasn't willing to trade Eric Byrnes to the Giants for the bullpen help the Giants could obviously provide the A's was that Beane was afraid of looking bad.

Krueger is just a Chris Russo wannabe. Yeah, he's the only guy who ever criticized the Giants save Barbieri, but he also was a complete bandwagon jumper. He shouldn't have been fired for this incident. He should have been fired for being crap.

If it makes any difference to what is being said here, I do know a guy who's worked with Kreuger quite a bit and by his account Mr. Kreuger is a world class prick. All that he's done or been accused of is hardly a surprise to me.

Actually, so do I.

Well, I just lost a bunch of respect for Alou. Even if you've been insulted, calling someone a messenger of Satan is a pretty stupid thing to do.

I think Alou calling Krueger a Messenger of Satan is far worse than calling a couple Carribean players braindead. He wasn't saying all Carribean people were braindead, just the ones playing in the starting lineup for the Giants.

In Chicago, El Duque and Contreras are frequently referred to as "the Cubans" on sportsradio. When things are going well there's praise for the Cubans, when things aren't there's criticism. At no point does this criticism, translate into criticism of everybody of Cuban descent.

Lujak, if he had been insulting only a few Caribbean people, then he should have worded it hella better; he worded it to insult them all.

You know, I already have pretty of far more useful messengers than a paeon like Larry Krueger. I mean, I am the commissioner of baseball and all.

I wonder how much Krueger needed to get along with the team, though, to do his job. I never heard of him before this incident, and I don't know whether or not say he travelled with the team. He wouldn't get any interviews with the team now, and he would not get the inside scoop

Its 90% call-in, with an occassional guest. Krueger never traveled with the team. He would very seldom have Giant players or management on as guests (I believe that this had more to do with the format of the show than retaliation for any comments he made, as the previous host of the show seldom had players either). Any guests that he did have were guys like Rob Neyer: columnists, other radio show hosts. And when he did have guests on, it would be for only a segment or two in 3 hour show. IOW, his reliance on guests was pretty minimal.

I was just thinking about who might be hired to replace Krueger. One option might be to move Rod Brooks from the early afternoon show, which would be fine IMHO.

Then I had another thought. In an ironic twist, the simultaneous departures of Krueger and Agnew might offer Bob Fitzgerald a chance to return to KNBR, if he were interested. Fitzgerald used to host the 7-10pm evening show up until about five years ago or so when the Warriors hired him to be their play-by-play guy (KNBR also carries Warrior games) following the firing of Greg Papa (who now does Giants game, after the A's fired him a few years back too). Anyway, Fitzgerald took the job the moment it was offered to him, assuming that he could keep his KNBR show (he had filled in for half a season or something a year or two a back, and the station worked around his schedule).

Well Bob Agnew was furious that: a) the Warriors failed to consult him regarding the firing of Papa (who was a friend of his); and b) Fitzgerald's presumption that the station would be willing to work around the travel schedule. So, in one of his less inspired moves, he abruptley fired Fitzgerald and brought in Krueger to replace him (or actually, there may have been an interim guy, but whatever). The general consensus from the newspaper columns was that the move was basically motivated by Agnew being peeved that neither the team or his host consulted him until a few hours before it was announced publicly. IMHO, his frustration against the team was probably justified, but Fitzgerald's lack of consideration was the result of his enthusiasm for the opportunity to become the play-by-play man, not intentional disrespect toward Agnew.

Fitzgerald was more universally liked and respected than Krueger was. I have no idea whether Fitzgerald would even be interested in getting his old show at this point, but I hope that the new station management at least considers it. But probably the more obvious choice is to promote Brooks (which given the racial nature of this incident, wouldn't be the worst move considering Brooks is their only minority personality presently on-air.

Here's hoping that a bunch of fans will attend the next home game dressed in devil costumes

6-4-3:

San Fran takes their recycling pretty seriously don't they?

Geez, get some new blood in front of that microphone.

I can think of 20 folks with regular opinions on all things A's or Giants who should try.........

don't think so. The Bay Area loves nothing more than to make mountains out of molehills, especially on hotbutton issues like race relations. Plus, Krueger had long been a thorn in the Giants' side, so I'm sure they saw this as an opportunity to remove the local pain in the arse. For Sport, KNBR is the only show in town, so the bay area is no devoid of radio hosts critical of the Giants. Also, perhaps coincidentally, or perhaps not, Krueger was the biggest A's pumper on the station. I don't listen that much, but most of the other hosts praise Beane's success (how can they not, especially with the Giants as an obvious foil?) but fall over themselves to fault his method, Kruger was the only one who I think really drank the saber/moneyball kool aid.


San Francisco, the city where being a white male means you're a (pick one of hundred terms for opressor). And before anyone asks - I'm not white.

I was just thinking about who might be hired to replace Krueger. One option might be to move Rod Brooks from the early afternoon show, which would be fine IMHO.

I doubt that would happen as Brooks is the only thing keeping Rick Barry listenable. If they wanted to waste Brooks on Sportsphone 680, they would have put him in the slot when they stuck Krueger there.

I'm guessing that it will, for the time being, be a rotation of Bruce McGowan, Mychael Urban, and F.P. Santangelo, the first two of whom are pretty good.

Then I had another thought. In an ironic twist, the simultaneous departures of Krueger and Agnew might offer Bob Fitzgerald a chance to return to KNBR, if he were interested.

Fitzgerald was good on the air, but apparently a complete backstabbing weasel off air (he was actually hired by the Warriors when he swooped in when negotiations between them and Papa had hit a glitch). There is also the problem of Fitzgerald's attempted shanghaiing of the morning show behind Gary Radnich's back (this was when Radnich had just started doing the mornings), which was really the final straw that got him fired.

Unless you're gay of course.

Or Gavin.

I don't think I could get away with insulting racist comments that offended my clients and others I work and deal with. I'd be fired too and rightfully so. I don't get the Krueger love. Of course I'd never dream of saying what Krueger said, because, well it's racist, stupid and not merely poorly worded. But I guess that's just me.

It isn't just you. I agree with you.

"I'm guessing that it will, for the time being, be a rotation of Bruce McGowan, Mychael Urban, and F.P. Santangelo"

The same Santangelo who used to be a UT IF/OF?

Stupid, stupid moves by KNBR. The "messenger of Satan" crack deserved to be mocked. Alou has every right to be pissed at Krueger, but that doesn't give him a blank check to say stupid crap like that. He is not above reproach, especially if you've watched him manage his bullpen.

Yerp. F.P. seems to be KNBR's utility co-host these days, filling in for Rick Barry, Rod Brooks, Tom Tolbert, or Ralph Barbieri whenever they have a day off. He's okay, but nothing great. He did play for both the Giants and A's during his career and lives up in Sacto apparently.

well it's racist, stupid and not merely poorly worded. But I guess that's just me.

It isn't just you. I agree with you.

But even if all of that is true (and I happen to think it is), it is still possible to conclude that Felipe Alou has been completely out of line in saying that it is "impossible to apologize" for it and then -- topping himself -- saying Krueger is a "messenger of Satan."

If Larry Krueger went to Alou and said something along these lines:

I'm truly sorry for what I said. It was degrading and offensive and harmful. If and when the time is right, I'd like to sit down with you, or people you recommend, and think about what we can do to make something positive out of this -- actually deal with prejudice that may affect Latin players, break down some of these stereotypes, explore the issues. In the meantime, again, you and your players have my apologies.

then I have no idea how Alou could maintain that it is "impossible" to apologize. I've never liked Sabean (as a GM, that is). Now I like his manager even less.

The reaction to this case has shocked me. I can't believe that anyone would waste any breath defended those comments. They were clearly racist. If you don't see that you don't understand what a racist comment is. This stuff about how "Caribbean" isn't a race is nonsense. It was clearly used to indicate general racial or ethnic properties. Caribbean is just as accurate description of race as white, black or hispanic. They are all equally arbitrary. What matters is the intent and in the context of the remarks Caribbean clearly had negative connotations.

This one is a litmus test. If you don't get this you are an immoral person.

it is still possible to conclude that Felipe Alou has been completely out of line in saying that it is "impossible to apologize" for it and then -- topping himself -- saying Krueger is a "messenger of Satan."

Sure, but that has nothing to do with Krueger or the station or what they should or shouldn't have done about his commments.

I agree that Alou seems to be overreacting. On the other hand, I'm not a black Dominican who came to the US as a very young man in the 1950s and has been dealing directly with racial/cultural insensitivity, stupidity, and cruelty ever since. Obviously Krueger struck a very raw nerve there, and if anyone can be cut a little slack for harboring some deep-seated anger and bitterness about racial/cultural insults, it's someone who's walked in Alou's shoes.

And on the apology thing. The whole point of an apology is that you don't have to accept it. It's the ability to decide whether to accept an apology or not that makes the whole endeavour worthwhile.

The point of an apology is for the one making the apology to submit to the one they've offended. For the submission to be genuine the offended party must have the right to rebuff them. Otherwise the offended party remains subject to the offender.

What bothers me most is that Alou is, from the other side of his mouth, saying he doesn't want the guy fired. Is that why you keep going on and on about it, Alou? It's amazing how someone took justifiable outrage and turned himself into an even less sympathetic figure than Krueger.

This one is a litmus test. If you don't get this you are an immoral person.

Down from the mountaintop, God stops by to post at BTF.

It's amazing how someone took justifiable outrage and turned himself into an even less sympathetic figure than Krueger.

While no one looks good here, I find Krueger far less sympathetic than Alou.

Obviously Krueger struck a very raw nerve there, and if anyone can be cut a little slack for harboring some deep-seated anger and bitterness about racial/cultural insults, it's someone who's walked in Alou's shoes.

I don't know how much Alou has been making all these years as a manager, but at some point if the Man's paying me millions of dollars to manage a baseball team I might mellow a bit, especially when I have almost 50 years to do it.

This one is a litmus test. If you don't get this you are an immoral person.


How should we feel about steroids?

This one is a litmus test. If you don't get this you are an immoral person.

What about accusing someone of being a servant of the prince of darkness? Do moral people make unsupported allegations that someone is a minnion of Satan?

How should we feel about steroids?

That one's a litmus test too. If you don't get that one, then you are a big fraud who poops his pants.

The whole point of an apology is that you don't have to accept it. It's the ability to decide whether to accept an apology or not that makes the whole endeavour worthwhile.

Well, of course -- neither Alou nor any of the insulted players have to accept the apology. But then, I have the right to be offended by his attitude and actions, and to conclude that he has missed a terrific opportunity to make something positive out of this mess.

I don't know how much Alou has been making all these years as a manager, but at some point if the Man's paying me millions of dollars to manage a baseball team I might mellow a bit, especially when I have almost 50 years to do it.

What utter horsesh!t. He's supposed to consider his market-determined salary hush money? If someone is paid enough for a long enough time, they forfeit their right to take offense at racial/cultural insults?

I think it's exactly the opposite. I think that the fact that after 50 years, Alou hasn't "mellowed" in the face of racist remarks to be a trait of honor on his part. I think the fact that since he doesn't see himself as too rich to care about this is something to be respected.

Yes, his satan comment is way over the top, stupid really. But if anyone has a right to have lost his temper and said something intemperate, it's him.

This one is a litmus test. If you don't get this you are an immoral person.

This isn't a zero-sum game. Krueger can be wrong, and Felipe can be just as wrong, too. Just because one guy claims the early moral high ground, doesn't mean he gets to keep it in perpetuity.

Yes, his satan comment is way over the top, stupid really. But if anyone has a right to have lost his temper and said something intemperate, it's him.

People say stupid crap all the time. I don't understand why more people can't show the maturity of 5 year-olds and just ignore it. (sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me)...

Instead of Alou just saying that it was an incredibly stupid thing of Krueger to say, he got all bent out of shape and angry and two people lost their jobs. I think everyone agrees that this was a suboptimal outcome from the initial comments. Everyone involved has lost something and, from what I can tell, no one has gained anything.

It's amazing how someone took justifiable outrage and turned himself into an even less sympathetic figure than Krueger.

While no one looks good here, I find Krueger far less sympathetic than Alou.

I agree, though you can't say Alou hasn't tried to look like the bigger arsehole. Agnew should have suspended Krueger a month with no guarantee of his return to the air and then told the rest of the on air staff that while they should allow callers to comment on the situation, they should refrain from making comments of their own even if Alou tries to out-idiot Krueger.

Tony Rhein should have taken his South Park montage upstairs and given it to Lamont & Tonelli if it really had to be aired.

What utter horsesh!t. He's supposed to consider his market-determined salary hush money? If someone is paid enough for a long enough time, they forfeit their right to take offense at racial/cultural insults?

I think it's exactly the opposite. I think that the fact that after 50 years, Alou hasn't "mellowed" in the face of racist remarks to be a trait of honor on his part. I think the fact that since he doesn't see himself as too rich to care about this is something to be respected.

Yes, his satan comment is way over the top, stupid really. But if anyone has a right to have lost his temper and said something intemperate, it's him.

Nonsense. The world of 1955 is different from the world of 2005. Today isn't perfect, but if a man like Alou, who would have never been considered for the job he has in 1955, can be a major league manager for over a decade now, then perhaps it is possible for him to step back and say that Krueger's words were ill-placed and unintelligent, but a lot has changed and we recognize this. Alou was in the very position of power he wasn't in 1958, and instead of using that power to be a little charitable and set an example of forgiveness that, at least me personally, I would look up to, he kicked Krueger to the curb.

It is entirely possible to see how outrageous Krueger's comments were, and to use your own experiences growing up in the 1950s to convey that, without seeking to have Krueger's life destroyed. I think what bothers me most about Alou's action is that he has had a week to think about it, whereas Krueger didn't.

I don't understand why more people can't show the maturity of 5 year-olds and just ignore it. (sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me)...

I strongly suspect that Felipe Alou has ignored more insults in his lifetime than you or I will ever begin to encounter.

Everyone involved has lost something and, from what I can tell, no one has gained anything.

No individual has gained anything. But the Bay Area sports radio has gained a stark lesson that stupid racial/cultural insensitivity on the air will not be accepted.

It is entirely possible to see how outrageous Krueger's comments were, and to use your own experiences growing up in the 1950s to convey that, without seeking to have Krueger's life destroyed. I think what bothers me most about Alou's action is that he has had a week to think about it, whereas Krueger didn't.

Exactly. Once Krueger made the comments, the genie was out of the bottle. Alou, among others, had the power to limit the damage but instead he chose to maximize it. I'd go so far as to call Krueger's behavior reckless and Alou's vindictive.

No individual has gained anything. But the Bay Area sports radio has gained a stark lesson that stupid racial/cultural insensitivity on the air will not be accepted.

KNBR is pretty much Bay Area sportstalk radio actually, save Robert Buan's post-post-game show on the A's broadcasts. Krueger was probably the only guy who needed that lesson.

And Larry Krueger will have another job in some other market soon enough. His life isn't destroyed. Hell, it might almost be made, sadly.

The world of 1955 is different from the world of 2005. Today isn't perfect, but if a man like Alou, who would have never been considered for the job he has in 1955, can be a major league manager for over a decade now, then perhaps it is possible for him to step back and say that Krueger's words were ill-placed and unintelligent, but a lot has changed and we recognize this.

Of course Alou could have handled it better. But it appears to me that what has really pissed him off is the fact that the world hasn't changed that much from 1955. That it's been 50 years, and a sports talk radio host is still saying crap like that is I interpret precisely why Alou is so frustrated and in no mood to forgive and forget.

The whole point is that it's been 50 years, and he's sick and tired of having to put up with this kind of garbage.

His life isn't destroyed. Hell, it might almost be made, sadly.

I suspect so. In the tawdry world of shock-jock talk radio, this perversely could be a huge boon to his career. KSFO (the local right-wing nutjob talk station) is probably making him an offer right now.

Did Alou say anything when Dusty Baker made his racist remarks?

Otherwise, he's just a hypocrite.

But the Bay Area sports radio has gained a stark lesson that stupid racial/cultural insensitivity on the air will not be accepted.

If you think it was stupid/impulsive/unintentional/etc, do you think he wouldn't have made the comment knowing the results? Unless you expect sports talk radio to function on a 3-hour delay so that each comment can be evaluated by a panel of lawyers and race relations advocates/etc, you're going to get comments like this going out on the airwaves.

Wow, I'm not surprised that Krueger was fired, but Bob Agnew's been a fixture at KNBR for nearly two decades. He's been the architect of the station, which really blossomed during his tenure. I am willing to bet that there was more behind this then just the Krueger incident.

I am surprised he was fired, at least at this time. It would make sense had they fired Krueger immediately or shortly after his comments. But they suspended him. Then, the morning show makes fun of Alou. How is Krueger responsible for that? Perhaps there is more here than what is in the article.

That bothers me a bit. If KNBR thinks that Krueger should have been fired for what he did, I have no argument with that. I just don't see why he should be fired for offensive things that others did, and that he (presumably) had no control over.

I strongly suspect that Felipe Alou has ignored more insults in his lifetime than you or I will ever begin to encounter.


Just give me a little time, peaches, and I'll even things up for you.

One thing I was not aware of until this controversy was that there is a stereotype that Latin players are stupid. There is a feeling among some that if a player can’t speak English (and I’ve even heard this type of sentiment on this board) that he is less than bright or is lazy for not learning the language. In addition to the problems Alou faced in the 60's, this current stereotype is apparently something Latin players deal with on a consistent basis today. I can’t begin to imagine the outrage he must have had when he heard the comments on the radio.

That said, the Satan comment was a bit too far, but again there might be a cultural component to that which i cannot appreciate.

KSFO (the local right-wing nutjob talk station) is probably making him an offer right now.

They do have the Raiders broadcasts -- he could always anchor the pre- and post-games.

But actually, I suspect it will be a fall up: drive time in some red state market. Or Best Damn Sports Show Period.

Alright, you try being black in the 1960s South.

What a bigoted remark.

How do you know the original poster wasn't black? Or wasn't of another ethnicity that has been discriminated against in this country at various times - Japanese, Jewish, Catholic, etc.?

There is a feeling among some that if a player can’t speak English (and I’ve even heard this type of sentiment on this board) that he is less than bright or is lazy for not learning the language.

I think Manny falls victim to this.

Rather, I think someone would have to be very smart or very stupid to deal with all the crap he gets as well as he does. I doubt a very stupid person could be as good at baseball as Manny is.

Rod Brooks is good? Rod Brooks is a nice guy but he's the Ted Mcginley of KNBR. He's had more partners than Wilt Chamberlain.


As far as Fitzgerald goes, he wasnt viewed highly around the station after the whole Papa mess and was seen as an opportunist. And to Kruger being a prick, I worked with both and Fitz was more condescedning to callers and to his co-workers than Kruger ever was.

Did Alou say anything when Dusty Baker made his racist remarks?

Otherwise, he's just a hypocrite.

Since when is it necessary to opppose all wrongs in order to oppose one?

I strongly suspect that Felipe Alou has ignored more insults in his lifetime than you or I will ever begin to encounter.


Just give me a little time, peaches, and I'll even things up for you.

Considering the context, that's hardly a noble standard.

Did Alou say anything when Dusty Baker made his racist remarks?

Otherwise, he's just a hypocrite.

Since when is it necessary to opppose all wrongs in order to oppose one?

I'd also note that this comment was directly about him and his team while Baker's comments weren't. Alou had better "standing" to speak out against Krueger's remarks.