Being a relief pitcher is a tough way to become legendary. You can be dominant for three years and only toward the end of that period do people start to think you're more than a fluke. And then if you lose it, you become a punchline in the space of one week, which can ruin your ERA for the whole season.

Gagne, Jose Mesa, Keith Foulke...

Also, it doesn't help when you join a new team after becoming a punchline. You get a grace period of negative infinite months before the fans start wishing you weren't wasting the team's money.

NTN:

Why do you taunt me so? I work so hard to keep from belaboring the obvious and here you go just begging me to comment.

Why NTN?

Why???

####### that unclutch Edwin Encarnacion.

Gagne (1-1), pitching for the fourth straight day

Stupid.

Yost ran Coco 6 straight days out there last year. Then Coco turned into Gacko the rest of the way

Is Yost one of the worst managers in the game? I'm trying to figure out who's potentially worse

Is Yost one of the worst managers in the game? I'm trying to figure out who's potentially worse

Juan Pierre had 5 at bats today...

It is fact that Ned Yost admitted in his post-season sitdown with General Manager Doug Melvin that he did not do a good job of managing his bullpen in 2007.

It is also a fact that the organization made every effort to provide Ned with relievers capable of handling multiple innings to reduce the reliever shuttle so prevalent in 2007.

It is also a fact that the organization constructed bullpen usage process maps for Ned to study as reference for game situations.

And here we are seeing the revival of the 2007 Milwaukee musical, "Nedley's Horror Bullpen Show"

Yost ran Coco 6 straight days out there last year.

For what I believe is the eight millionth time, check out the pitch counts during the six-day stretch. There were a couple of very low pitch count outings in there (there was even a one pitch save in there). Furthermore, Cordero hadn't pitched for nearly a week beforehand, and he didn't pitch for eight days afterwards.

Given the situation, that stretch didn't bug me. Cordero also didn't have Gagne's health history.

NTN is correct. There are many reasons to castigate Yost. That was lower on the totem pole.

4 in a row might not be the best idea for a guy with Gagne's history, but really, 4 in a row doesn't seem excessive in modern usage. If Gagne felt he didn't have anything, he should have told Ned.

I'd love to bash Ned for this loss, but I think whether or not Gagne can go a few days in a row is up to Gagne, Maddux, and the trainers. Ned should use restraint with his bullpen when possible, but I think many managers would use their closer 4 games in a row.

I am generally a lot easier on Yost than HW is... that said, today's game was extremely poorly managed.

I don't care if you only have a 3-man bench (stupid enough already) and I don't care if Gallardo is a good hitter for a pitcher. He's still a pitcher, he's still fresh off the DL, and he's thrown a hundred pitches. NED TOOK HIM OUT THE NEXT INNING ANYWAY.

You pinch hit. Period. It is a tie game, late innings, the go-ahead run is on base. You pinch hit. My dog would pinch hit.

Then sending Gagne out for the 4th day in a row. He's not the healthiest pitcher, he's uneven, you have a fully-rested David Riske in the pen. Freakin' ridiculous.

Joe:

EXCEPT we all know that Ned only listens to Ned.

And clearly options existed. I know Turnbow has taken his lumps from these parts but the guy is now gathering dust.

And Gagne looked a bit tired in last night's game.................

On the plus side, the Brewers have played one of the more road-heavy schedules in the league thus far, their offense still isn't on track... and they're still 11-7.

So things could be worse.

I think Beane is going to auction Huston Street later this year. LaPorta was signed in early June...I'm thinking Street and one of those ballyhooed SPs in Stockton should be enough.

Before today (when he rolled a few breaking balls that left the yard), Gagne had shown better fastball velocity and command the last few outings, and more of a willingness to mix up his pitches, so I'm not ready to write him off yet.

I don't like trading LaPorta for a guy like Street. Street is good, no doubt, but after spending all this money (Brewers have the 2nd most expensive bullpen), I don't see the Brewers then giving up their best prospect for another high-salaried reliever. At least I hope to christ they don't do that.

Joe:

Agreed. But considering the price paid for Linebrink who knows what Melvin will do to cover for his decision to keep Yost in place.

Ned has his positives. But his overriding inability to manage a bullpen is SOOOO deleterious to the team effort, his contribution ends up being a net negative.........

Dayton Daily News: McCoy blog - He who laughs last

Edwin almost lost another one for the Cincinnati Reds Sunday, but survived to smile about it when he and his buddies rescued the game, 4-3, in 10 innings.

Encarnacion’s home run in the fifth was the Reds’ only run as the game rumbled into the 10th. Suddenly, with runners on first and second with one out, Milwaukee’s Jason Kendall rolled one right at Encarnacion. He scooped it up and stepped toward third, hoping to step on the bag and throw to first for the double play that would end the inning at 1-1.

Instead the ball trickled from his glove and rolled into foul territory - an error, bases loaded, one out. Of course, Milwaukee scored twice to take a 3-1 lead. Another ball bounced off Encarnacion’s body in that inning, but a compassionated official scorer ruled that one a hit - and it probably was.

Fans assaulted Encarnacion’s ears when he was first up in the bottom of the inning and he quickly turned it to cheers by drilling his second homer of the game.

Paul Bako followed with a home run to tie it. Scott Hatteberg walked. Brandon Phillips, 2 for 21 at the time. rolled one in the grass toward short for an infield hit. Ken Griffey Jr. hit one over the right fielder’s head.

Game over, Encarnacion exonerated.

Why in the world are they carrying 14 pitchers? I heard the reasoning on the broadcast but still don't get it. To then pitch Gagne again with so many other pitchers available .... hang in there HW.

Sheets is touch-and-go for his next start - Bush is temporarily out of the rotation, and is the standby guy for Sheets' start - so it's probably realistically more like 13 usable... but still, even with the extra inning games, 13 pitchers should, uhh, be more than sufficent.

NTN/Joe:

Dana Eveland got the win for Oakland today.

One of several elements of Melvin trades that will haunt Milwaukee I fear.

You just don't trade lefties with good fastballs until they fail after like 15 tries.

Causeyaneverknow...................

Yeah, I saw the HoHo Kid got the win.

Still seems to be nibbling a lot on the field (4BB in 5.2IP, 53 strikes in 95 pitches), don't know about his nibbling off the field.

Perhaps the fact he's now on his third organization will improve his conditioning (granted, weight listings are usually sketchy, but he's now listed by Oakland at 240, rather than his 260 Brewer weight) - time will tell.

I like the word "compassionated."

Yeah, I saw that eveland did well again. I hope Doug notices too.

Not that he should never trade away young guys, just that he shouldn't be so profligate when he does trade them. Was there really a reason to throw eveland in that trade? Or Thatcher in the Linebrink trade? Or cut Sarfate to make room for Ray King?

Joe:

BING, BING, BING!!!

You should be a special advisor to the GM........................

Anthony Witrado wrote the Brewers blog today. I find this language interesting about the 10th inning finish:

Eric Gagne imploded again, though, allowing back-to-back home runs that tied the game, then walked Scott Hatteberg before leaving.

What? Excuse me?

As if Eric has been a constant problem to start the season. As opposed to Rickie Weeks diving after pitches in the dirt, Braun having a strike zone the size of Montana and Yost refusing to recognize Rivera is on the roster.

Good grief. "again". What a crock.....

A game tying homer to Gabor Paul II. Heh.

Seriously--what the hell's gotten into Bako this year? He almost went deep against the Cubs last week.

4 in a row might not be the best idea for a guy with Gagne's history, but really, 4 in a row doesn't seem excessive in modern usage. If Gagne felt he didn't have anything, he should have told Ned.

Pitching Eric Gagne 4 days in a row is a bad idea (for the very reason of his health history). It's Ned's job to know that, regardless of what Gagne told him or didn't.

Good grief. "again". What a crock.....

Apparently the writer's still stuck on opening day (which would qualify as a Gagne "implosion," but which of course the Brewers ended up winning anyway). Has Gagne had any other meltdowns since then?

retro:

No. He's been pretty solid as NTN has described.

But Yost is wearing out both him and Kendall. It makes no sense.

But that is a common refrain when one discusses Yost.....................

MLB.com:

Brewers manager Ned Yost said he had no regrets using Gagne in that situation.

"I check with my relievers every day," Yost said. "He felt good. It was pushing it a little bit. But, he felt loose. We played a great baseball game. Things happen."
...
"I felt really good," Gagne said. "I'm healthy. It took me just 10 or 12 pitches to get ready. I got behind in the count early and put myself in trouble. They put the big part of the bat on the ball. Everything felt good. I just didn't get ahead. I wish I could control the outcome."

NTN:

This is such a crock. A manager certainly talks to his players but has to use his own judgement.

I ask again, where is Turnbow? Only for blowouts? If so, what good is a one-inning guy if he can only pitch when the team is down 8? Or is he hurt? Cut his hair and lost his fastball?

Well, I could see being a little gunshy with Turnbow, but starting the inning with Riske or Torres (neither had pitched Saturday) would have more reasonable, I thought.

Couldn't you Brewers guys email or instant message each other or something?

[/spambot]

Couldn't you Brewers guys email or instant message each other or something?

Why?

I ask again, where is Turnbow? Only for blowouts? If so, what good is a one-inning guy if he can only pitch when the team is down 8? Or is he hurt? Cut his hair and lost his fastball?

Given the state of the Brewers' bench, I assume he's the #2 pinch-hitter right now. :-)

The Brewers have very strange team stats (note: b-ref hasn't yet - obviously - included today's game.

Team OPS+ 96
Team ERA+ 99

Upshot: not only an 11-6 record, but a 10-7 pythag record. Yeah, I know it's only 17 games, but that's still kooky.

They might be 10th in ERA, but only 6th in RA. 1 UER in 17 games will do that.

They might be 9th in BA, 12th in OBP, & 8th in SLG, but they're 5th in runs. As long as you're not going to hit up to your potential, you can cover over it by situational hitting, which must be what they are doing.

Sure enough, b-ref's splits now include a nifty new feature - numbers based on leverage (itself based on WPA). In high leverage situation, they're hitting .304/.416/.464. They won't keep that up, but they again they won't keep hitting sub-.240 in normal & low leverage situations either.

16th in walks. They weren't that good at it last year, but that's amazing. I'd love to see some Pitch F/X work on Ryan Braun.

Yeah, we're aware the Brewers are sort of papering over their sputtering offense by cashing in what relatively few baserunners they have had - seemingly every Brewers TV telecast this season has flashed the graphic that they lead the NL in BA with RISP.

The improved defense also has helped, and is probably better for fans' blood pressure, as well.

Gagne will be ok, he will at least be an avg relief pitcher, 3.70 ERA kind of guy. Just don't make him pitch 4 days in a row. Also, what is the point of Turnbow and McClung if they can't play with a lead? Why are they on a contenders roster?

The Brewers have very strange team stats (note: b-ref hasn't yet - obviously - included today's game.

Team OPS+ 96
Team ERA+ 99

Upshot: not only an 11-6 record, but a 10-7 pythag record. Yeah, I know it's only 17 games, but that's still kooky.

They might be 10th in ERA, but only 6th in RA. 1 UER in 17 games will do that.

They might be 9th in BA, 12th in OBP, & 8th in SLG, but they're 5th in runs.

I have a question related to this. It seems that unearned runs are way up recently. Is there any statistic that measures hitters ability to reach base on an error? That seems to clearly be a skill that faster players have and not an insignificant one. I bet the best players at this reach base over 10 times per year on error and it is mostly because of speed. Where is this measured, other than getting a few extra runs on your counting stats?

Reaching base 10 or so extra times per year on error is a significant difference, maybe 5-8% bump over traditionally measured on-base rates.

Does this stat exist? Has this been researched?

I'm pretty sure LWts (or SuperLWts or MegaLWts) includes RoE. MGL has looked at it I'm pretty sure. Yes, very fast groundball hitters (Ichiro) tend to induce a fair number of RoEs ... but counter-acting that sometimes is that RHBs tend to induce more RoEs (given the 3B/SS have less time to recover and throw the guy out). It makes a difference but I think not more than a couple runs either way for the vast majority of players (esp. in terms of repeatable skill).

But don't hold me to that -- whatever research I saw was a while ago.

Thanks Walt. It sure does seem RHB hits to 3b/ss cause more of these than all other hits. I'd like to see these errors reflected in OBP. But I know we won't.

I must confess that BBTF generates some odd posts. A while back I was chastised for beginning my posts with the posting name of the individual to whom my post was directed.

Now I am party to a group being told to post elsewhere. For no apparent reason.

Is BBTF only for fans of other teams?

And I post in this group forum to enjoy the "wisdom of crowds".

Yeah, it makes no sense for Brewers fans to be posting in the thread about their closer blowing a save after pitching 4 days in a row. Seriously, what are you guys thinking...

It's hard for Mets fans to steal all the threads if you guys keep posting like this. Show some consideration!

A while back I was chastised for beginning my posts with the posting name of the individual to whom my post was directed.

HW: don't listen to 'em.