Alex Chilton is ALL NATURAL, baby! Well, except for the hog tranquilizers...

Pavement is the greatest band of the 1990s. (Radiohead's best work came in 2000 and afterwards.) Slanted & Enchanted, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, and Wowee Zowee are three of most obligatory albums of the decade.

That is all.

Radiohead's best work came in 2000 and afterwards.

Huh? OK Computer was what, 1997?

Meh. Never got into Pavement for whatever reason. One of those bands on the edges of all the stuff I listen to that I never got around to listening to very much.

I'm with Esoteric on this one. Even their decline records are good listening, and the EPs and singles are chock full of tasties. "Linden Lions," (or is it "Lions Linden"? "Raft," and "Westie Can Drum" being highly notable examples.

the Two guys in NEU were in kraftwerk first, I think thats way cooler than jerry harrison ( the latter part of the talking heads career was uncool as it gets ) and when is the last time anyone thought Sonic Youth was still cool? its like tommy thayer or buckethead being called cool because they were in Kiss or guns n roses, I mean times up on the "Sonic Youth are so cool" phase.

Cooler than jerry harrison?

Rob Norris...Velvet Underground-The Bongos

Steve Almaas...The Suicide Commandos-The Beat Rodeos

Peter Holsapple...The dB's-R.E.M.

Richard Lloyd...Television-Rocket From The Tombs

Monoman...DMZ-The Lyres

Robert Smith - The Cure and Siouxsie & the Banshees

Jason Everman - Nirvana and Soundgarden

Kenny Jones - Small Faces and The Who

Johnny Marr - The Smiths and Modest Mouse

It's not cool at all, but the greatest multi-band accomplishment in all of rock is by Ashley Hutchings - a founding memeber of Fairport Convention, Steeleye Span, and the Albion Band...

I guess we could mention Kim Deal for the "pixies/Breeders', both of whom were pretty cool.

Even their decline records are good listening, and the EPs and singles are chock full of tasties.

"Give It a Day," on their Pacific Trim EP, is one of the very best of all Pavement songs, and therefore one of the best songs ever.

Dave Navarro was in both Jane's Addiction and the Red Hot Chili Peppers. David Robinson was in the Modern Lovers (with Jerry Harrison) and in the Cars, and on the Spurs' first NBA championship team. Dave Grohl, of course, was in both Nirvana and the Foo Fighters. Kim Deal was in both the Breeders and the Pixies. Ed King was in both the Strawberry Alarm Clock and Lynyrd Skynyrd, and no, I did not make that last one up.

I will keep playing, how about Lemmy in Hawkwind and Motorhead
vince welnick in The Tubes and the Dead
Richard hell in Television and the Heartbreakers
Stiv Bators in the dead boys and lords of the new church
vince clarke in Depeche mode/yaz/erasure

I got a million of em.

Keith Levene in the Clash and PiL
Bruce Foxton in the Jam and Stiff Little Fingers

Denny laine moody blues and wings!
dolphin taylor trb and stiff little fingers
Ian macdonald king crimson and foreigner
barry andrews xtc and shriekback

Dave Grohl, of course, was in both Nirvana and the Foo Fighters.

Not to mention the Scream.

Also ...

Pat Smear -- Germs & Nirvana.

Marc Bolan -- John's Children & T Rex.

Marc Riley -- The Fall & the Creepers.

Jon Langford -- the Mekons, the Three Johns & the Waco Brothers.

Patricia Morrison -- the Bags, Legal Weapon, the Gun Club, Fur Bible, the Sisters of Mercy, the Damned.

Ward Dotson -- the Gun Club, Pontiac Brothers, Liquor Giants

Tony & Chip Kiman -- the Dils, Rank & File, Blackbird, Cowboy Nation.

Blixa Bargeld -- Einsturzende Neubaten, the Bad Seeds

Thomas Thorn -- My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult, Electric Hellfire Club

Kid Congo Powers -- Gun Club, Cramps, Knoxville Girls

Tony James -- Chelsea, Generation X, Sigue Sigue Sputnik, Sisters of Mercy

Brian James -- the Damned, Lords of the New Church

Dave Tregunna -- the Barracudas, Lords of the New Church

Nick Turner -- Sham 69, Lords of the New Church

John Ellis -- John's Children, Radio Stars

Mike Kellie -- Spooky Tooth, the Only Ones

Plus of course virtually every member of the Punk Class of '77 started out in the London SS before going on to the Damned, Clash, Generation X, etc.

Radiohead's best work came in 2000 and afterwards.

This is mental. I will see Shredder's "OK Computer" and raise with "The Bends". Nothing they've done since touches either of these albums.

Oh, and here's another: Paul Heaton - Housemartins and the Beautiful South.

Marc Riley -- The Fall & the Creepers.

Come on, even I've been in The Fall.

Ibold was also in Free Kitten, a Sonic Youth/Boredoms side project. My favourite Pavement music (and thus, almost my favourite music ever) is the Watery Domestic EP. Four perfect songs, especially "Frontwards."

Jon Spencer - ##### Galore and JSBX.

Pat Smear -- Germs & Nirvana.

Not to mention the Foo Fighters!

Man, some of you guys could pass the popular music prelims for sure.

Jon Spencer - ##### Galore and JSBX.

Cristina Martinez, Mrs. Spencer, was in ##### Galore and Boss Hog. But now we're naming people who were in not one but two bands nobody's ever heard of.

Pavement is the greatest band of the 1990s.

The act Pavement pretty much started out as a tribute band to, The Fall, had a pretty good decade as well.

Cristina Martinez, Mrs. Spencer, was in ##### Galore and Boss Hog.

So was Bob Bert, who was also in Sonic Youth, the Knoxville Girls & Chrome Cranks.

Which reminds me of Richard Edson, who was in Sonic Youth, Konk ... & Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Do the Right Thing, Good Morning Vietnam & Platoon.

some of these are fairly cheap , but I think I can come up with cheaper ones

how about three quarters of Joy Division becoming 3/4 of new order!

how about three quarters of Joy Division becoming 3/4 of new order!

Well, yeah, but you've also gotta mention Bernard Sumner being in Electronic with Johnny Marr (I think ... I'm going purely on memory here) & Peter Hook being in Revenge. One of 'em was in Monaco as well. And the other two were in ... the Other Two.

I have a sudden urge to go find my early Pretty Things albums, & I have no idea why ... but I definitely blame this thread.

Tony Iommi was in Jethro Tull AND Black Sabbath!

Dick taylor, was in the earlier versions of what became the stones and pretty things!

That was my point about pretty cheap, electra and revenge and the other two, were side project things not really "bands" per se ( and I thought all three were disappointing two were flat out awful). I guess you could do a whole thread of ELP?king crimson and probably a very long one on all the side project/bands that sprang from Wire.

How about genesis p orridge in throbing gristle and psychic tv
chris and cosey in throbing gristle and chris and cosey

if anyone posts something about Bowie and tin machine I will stop reading.

Don't get me wrong, The Fall are a wonderful band, one of my top-5 alltime. But the notion that Pavement lifted from them wholesale is, IMO, a bit overstated. The only record I can really see it on is S&E;(and even then, only a few tracks,notably "Conduit For Sale" which may as well be called "New Face '91"). They were influenced by many bands.

Wait, how did all these people end up in Sonic Youth? I thought Sonic Youth had always been Thurston Moore, Kim Gordon, Steve Shelley and Lee Ranaldo, plus Jim O'Rourke for a while. If Mark Ibold was in Sonic Youth, what was Kim Gordon doing?

Pretty soon I expect to see "Paul McCartney was in the Beatles AND in Wings AND in Sonic Youth!"

The post says Ibold is their new 'touring bassist.' So I guess the question should be, what IS Kim Gordon doing?

#3 - Shredder

Huh? OK Computer was what, 1997?

Right, and it's nowhere near their best or most interesting work, which began with Kid A, Amnesiac, the various B-sides from 2000-2001 ("Cuttooth," "Fog," "The Amazing Sound Of Orgy," "Trans-Atlantic Drawl," "Gagging Order," etc.) and Hail To The Thief. Makes their '90s work seem pedestrian by comparison. And trust me, I am OBSESSED with Radiohead - I literally know everything they have ever released, and have hundreds of concerts. I'm no dilettante. Their Bends/OK Computer material is excellent for what it is, but is nowhere as profound an achievement as their later work.

# 19 gef the talking mongoose:

The whole "Pavement = Fall ripoffs" thing is ridiculously overstated. You've got "Conduit For Sale!" (which genuinely does appropriate the riff of "New Face In Hell" while altering it slightly), "Two States," "Hit The Plane Down," and "Flux=Rad" and that's about it. Pavement was obscenely melodic - this was their main selling point, the incredible tunefulness disguised by Malkmus's slacker singing - whereas The Fall were all about glorious repetition. Keep in mind that I'm a ridiculous Fall fan as well...and their decade was certainly not the 1990s. It was the 1980s, the first half of which they pretty much owned.

And FINALLY:

Everyone who's mentioned Pavement's Watery, Domestic EP gets a gold star. Damn is that ever a fantastic four-song summary of their genius. "Frontwards" and especially "Shoot The Singer" are hidden '90s icon-songs.

Other great Pavement songs not found on their actual albums: "Baptist Blacktick," "So Stark (You're A Skyscraper)," "Greenlander," "Raft," "Unseen Power Of The Picket Fence," "All My Friends," "Soiled Little Filly," "Camera," "Brink Of The Clouds," "Mussle Rock (Is A Horse In Transition)," "Painted Soldiers" (especially the BBC version)," "Give It A Day," "Westie Can Drum," and the great "Harness Your Hopes."

Esoteric - we must agree to disagree on Radiohead. The Kid A and afterwards stuff always tripped over the last hurdle and fell on it's face before it made it to the ROCK finish line. It's adventurous and experimental but to me more ponderous and simply lacking the ability to rock, which counts a lot for me. And doesn't being obsessed make you a fanboy and therefore vaguely levski-esque on the topic? ;-) (I will accept convincing as far as where I'm wrong about the non-rock)

Also, Pat Smear's work with Nirvana was more tour help rather than band work, so I always think of him bypassing Nirvana and going directly to Foo Fighters, do not pass go, do not collect flannel.

And how dare you all miss The The on Johnny Marr's work.

Apropos of nothing else, I saw Modest Mouse open for Pond in 1996 in a nowhere hall in Seattle, and they were so drunk and/or coked up they couldn't finish the set. Brock was wandering around being an ass afterwards, knocked into me and gave me the drunk person's "you're in my way" whine, so I gave him #### for wasting my money and being a worthless drunk, he pushed me, so I pushed him back and as he could barely stand he fell down, which was enormously satisfying to me. Haven't really been able to listen to them since.

Everyone who's mentioned Pavement's Watery, Domestic EP gets a gold star. Damn is that ever a fantastic four-song summary of their genius. "Frontwards" and especially "Shoot The Singer" are hidden '90s icon-songs.

The recent Los Campesinos! cover of "Frontwards" was brilliant.

Gotta disagree with the "watery domestic is the greatest" stuff, it was pretty good but frankly Slanted slays it by sheer volume of its brilliance . For me the greatest single accomplishment for that band was "filmore Jive" , the track is one of those fantastic messes and for me it was downhill from there ( I hated the zowie, liked brighten but it wasnt up to par with slanted/crooked ).
I agree with the earlier is better school of thought with Radiohead, I thought the later albums were twadled. My old band once opened for Yorke when he was doing a solo acoustic gig to promote the just released "the bends" cd, he appeared alone and was unbelievably good.

I'm sick & tired of players like Albert Belle & Chris Truby stepping in & replacing Kim Gordon on bass for Sonic Youth.

Dick taylor, was in the earlier versions of what became the stones and pretty things!

Good one -- can't believe I forgot that factoid. He's also on the Mekons' Honky Tonkin' album, which is probably why I was wanting to play Pretty Things last night.

####### hipsters

(EDIT: That came off as meaner than I intended when I looked back. I oughta point out that Pavement is easily my favorite band of all time, although I can't say I know anything about most of the others listed on this thread...)

Steve Ignorant was in Crass & Conflict & also guested for Current 93.

Wimpy Roy was in the Subhumans & DOA.

Most of the (UK) Subhumans became Citizen Fish. Somewhere in the interim, Dick Lucas & maybe others were also in Culture Shock.

Flo and Eddie were in the Turtles and the Mothers of Invention. Doesn't get any cooler than that. :)

Flo and Eddie were in the Turtles and the Mothers of Invention. Doesn't get any cooler than that. :)

Barry Tashian was in The Remains and Emmylou Harris' Hot Band. Take that!

Barry Tashian was in The Remains and Emmylou Harris' Hot Band. Take that!

Everybody who sang R&B;in the 50s and 60s was in the Drifters and at least one other group!

Mike Patton has a case: Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, Fantomas, Lovage, Tomahawk

And in 60s country rock you've got:

Gram Parsons - Rolling Stones, The Byrds, Flying Burrito Brothers
Roger McGuinn - Chad Mitchell Trio, The Byrds
Bernie Leadon - Flying Burrito Brothers, Dillard & Clark, The Eagles
Chris Hillman - The Byrds, The Flying Burrito Brothers, Manassas, Desert Rose Band
David Crosby - The Byrds, CSN (&Y;)
Graham Nash - The Hollies, CSN (&Y;)
Neil Young - Buffalo Springfield, CSN&Y;, Neil Young solo (everybody in this list did solo records, but it's Neil Young)
Stephen Stills - Buffalo Springfield, CSN&Y;, Manassas
Jim Messina - Buffalo Springfield, Poco, Loggins and Messina

Richard Hell - Television, Heartbreakers, Voidoids, Dim Stars

Wait, how did all these people end up in Sonic Youth? I thought Sonic Youth had always been Thurston Moore, Kim Gordon, Steve Shelley and Lee Ranaldo, plus Jim O'Rourke for a while.

Steve Shelley's been in SY forever, but he was their 4th drummer. Jim Sclavunos of the Bad Seeds was also one of the previous drummers (thus meaning Sclavunos has already outdone Ibold, since NC&TBS;squash Pavement like a grape, especially if you include the Grinderman album, which if you don't own, you suck and might as well just go listen to Britney, you mealy-mouthed little pansy).

If Mark Ibold was in Sonic Youth, what was Kim Gordon doing?

Is not was, and probably playing guitar, just like she was for most of Jim O'Rourke's tenure.

Robert Smith - The Cure and Siouxsie & the Banshees

You forgot The Glove!

For that matter, the late, great John McGeoch: The Banshees, PiL, Visage, Magazine

Barry Adamson: Magazine, The Bad Seeds, Barry Adamnson

Howard Devoto: Magazine, Buzzcocks

Anton Fier- The Feelies, Pere Ubu, the Lounge Lizards and the Golden Palaminos

Stiv Bators - Dead Boys and Lords of the New Church

Steve Marriot - Small Faces and Humble Pie

This has gotten kind of silly (not that it didn't start out silly), since Gram Parsons was in the Rolling Stones as much as Eric Clapton was in the Beatles, or Kate Pierson was in R.E.M., or B.B. King was in U2. I do believe that Mick Jagger was in Carly Simon at one point or another, though.

Klaus Schulze was in Tangerine Dream and Ash Ra Tempel.

Gram Parsons was in the Rolling Stones as much as Eric Clapton was in the Beatles

Or Daryl Dragon in the Beach Boys

Tommy Stinson...The Replacements - Guns N' Roses - Soul Asylum

Allen Paulino...The Real Kids - Cheater Slicks - The Nervous Eaters

Jimmy McCulloch- Thunderclap Newman and Stone the Crows

Or Daryl Dragon in the Beach Boys

Or Toni Tennille in Pink Floyd.

Jimmy McCulloch- Thunderclap Newman and Stone the Crows

And in Wings! And in Sonic Youth! No, wait, he was dead before Sonic Youth was founded.

Jimmy McCulloch- Thunderclap Newman and Stone the Crows

And in Wings!

I wasn't sure Wings was cool enough, what with Linda's participation.

Tanya Donnelly- Throwing Muses, the Breeders and Belly

Juliana Hatfield- Blake Babies and Some Girls (and backup vocals on the Lemonheads' It's a Shame About Ray.

Chris Hillman - The Byrds, The Flying Burrito Brothers, Manassas, Desert Rose Band

How can one forget the Souther, Hillman, Furay Band?

If we're going that route, Randy Meisner was a founder member of both Poco and The Eagles.

But now we're naming people who were in not one but two bands nobody's ever heard of.

Tonie Joy - Born Against, Men's Recovery Project, Universal Order of Armageddon, The Great Unraveling & The Convocation Of...

Do I win something?

Apparently Esoteric owes me a coke (though his post was a bit more thorough).

Agreed that the Fall's decade was the 80s, not that there wasn't some great 90s work.
Anyone who wants a link to "The Wonderful and Frightening World Of Mark E Smith", a recent hour-long BBC doc, let me know below.

Am I the only one who prefers the cleaner sound of Terror Twilight over much of their earlier stuff? (I loved the Malkmus eponymous album too.) I've been listening to my copy of Westing today - and it's real hit and miss. Granted, I'm alternating with S&E;, which is undeniably great.

Patton: Lovage? That only lasted one album, right? Did anyone listen to it? I only know of it because I love Nakamura...

Here's mine: Ken Stringfellow: Posies, Big Star, The Minus Five, and helped out on loads of other stuff (REM, Loud Family, etc...).

Steve Winwood - Spencer Davis Group, Traffic, and Blind Faith

Confession time. I own all five of Pavement's studio albums, though not the EPs and loose tracks. I love Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain; it's one of my favorite albums of the 1990s, and "Gold Soundz" is easily in my all-time Top 50 songs.

I've never played Slanted and Enchanted. I've never heard the damn thing, primarily because it's supposed to be such a classic, and I'm scared to hear it because I'm afraid it won't live up to expectations. I'm just waiting for the "right" time to play the damn thing. I even downloaded it into my iPod in case the mood strikes when I'm not at home. But I still haven't played it...

Mike Patton also did a full album with Dillinger Escape Plan, so I'd count that one, too.

Josh Homme: Kyuss, Queens of the Stone Age, Eagles of Death Metal and Mondo Generator

I've never played Slanted and Enchanted. I've never heard the damn thing

Better than any Beatles album.

(runs, hides)

I like Terror Twilight, more than most Pavement diehards, but Westing kills it, especially the standout tracks like "Box Elder," Debris Slide," "From Now On," and "Home." But I guess it depends on what you like about Pavement.

If you liked SM, get Pig Lib and Face the Truth - I think they're even better than the first solo record.

vortex, just throw S+E on anywhere, anytime. You won't be disappointed.

Better than any Beatles album.

(runs, hides)

If you ever stick your head up again, pal, I'll Oddjob you with my original copy of Meet the Beatles.

Or Toni Tennille in Pink Floyd.

Heh. She also backed up the Beach Boys, but was not a member (nor was the Captain, apparently).
Glen Campbell is listed as a member of the Beach Boys in '64-'65. He was a big time session man in his pre-stardom days.

...but Westing kills it, especially the standout tracks like "Box Elder," Debris Slide," "From Now On," and "Home."

Baptist Blacktick

Josh Freese: Vandals, Crumb, A Perfect Circle.

QED, MF

Re #33: Filmore Jive, amazing song. The drunken stupor of Big Rock passing out on a couch, yet somehow in the same song, giving a quasi-hairy eyeball to just about every other little corner of popular music too. And tying it all together with a big, sloppy, crashing solo. Then finally kissing it off with a swallowed line that I still want to hear the end of. Great frickin' song.

Re #57: Yes.

Some quick contributions....

-Obviously Tweedy (and John Stirrat, and Max Johnston, and the Coom) in UT and Wilco (with Tweedy also in Golden Smog!)
-Dave Pajo was in Tortoise and Slint (and probably 100 other bands?)
-Sure, Eric Clapton for Blind Faith, Bluebreakers, Cream, the Yardbirds, and Derek and the Dominoes (though the latter could be seen as Clapton with sidemen
-Both SM and Bob Nostanovich in Pavement and the Silver Jews (the Jews were not a Pavement side project, they sprung up at the same time)
-Ooh, and wasn't Randy Bachmann in the Guess Who and the BTO?
-Greg Rolie was in both Santana and Journey

Six degress of separation. In late 1997, my old pal Pete, from Lancaster, PA, mentioned to me that his pal Hans's brother was in a band that's a pretty big deal. "How about that," said I, not bothering to follow up, figuring he just meant some local Philly cover band.

Too bad I didn't know who Hans Ibold's brother was.

Eric Clapton

And Delanie, Bonnie and Friends -- or was he just a sideman?

The late Billy Preston was considered the 5th Beatle and had hits by himself and played the young W. C. Handy to Nat King Cole's grown up W. C. in St. Louis Blues

Courtesy of imdb, here's a conversation to include in repartee on this site:
Gogo Germaine: That's right, Reverend. Stick to your guns. You stick to them because, after all, prejudice is a time saver.
Rev. Charles Handy: I... I beg your pardon?
Gogo Germaine: Well, a busy man like you: You can form an opinion without wasting time bothering about facts.

Gogo Germaine: You're about to hear some facts Reverend.

On the sideman front....

-Maceo Parker was in JB's band, then in the P-Funk. That's a nifty twofer.
-Nils Lofgren was in Crazy Horse and in the E-Street band, I think.

-Nils Lofgren was in Crazy Horse and in the E-Street band, I think.

Lofgren was a vital contributor to the self-titled Crazy Horse album, but I don't believe he ever toured with them, leaving after the recording of that album to concentrate on his own band, Grin (who recorded some great songs - "Moon Tears", "We All Sing Together", etc.). He did both record and tour with Neil Young on numerous occasions, though. He replaced Steve Van Zandt in the E-Street Band in 1985, and has played with them (whenever they've been active) since.

Lofgren's 1975 self-titled solo debut, BTW, is a great album. "Back It Up" is a forgotten classic that really should have been a huge hit.

Lofgren is on Tonight's the Night, including a pre-solo name drop by Neil "Speakin' Out." (I think it's "speakin' out," don't have the album in front of me.

Lofgren is on Tonight's the Night, including a pre-solo name drop by Neil "Speakin' Out." (I think it's "speakin' out," don't have the album in front of me.

Completely correct - my favorite Neil Young album, BTW.

#59 - Vortex

My first experience with Pavement was with Slanted, and you know what? I HATED IT. God I hated it, I thought it was a practical joke that my buddy (who recommended it to me) was playing on me. At that time I was still stuck solidly in my "no music from beyond 1980 is worth listening to" ghetto, so the lo-fi production and unabashed noisiness and the guy shrieking "I'M TRYING I'M TRYING I'M TRYING" into my ears horrified me.

I came back to it a couple years later and realized it was one of the five or six best albums of the decade.

So there you are, opinions can vary. I will say this, though: although it's nowhere near as welcoming and instantly accessible as Crooked Rain (my favorite), "Trigger Cut," "Loretta's Scars," and "Here" are ridiculously catchy, melodic songs. I wish you had the reissued 2-CD Luxe & Reduxe version instead of the original, however. Normally those sorts of 2-disc "expanded editions" are just packed with boring waste material, but the S&E;reissue is damn near unique in containing 1.5 extra discs' worth of ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL and immediately appealing music. The B-sides, BBC sessions, Watery Domestic EP (the one we've been talking about on this thread? It's included!) and concert are embarrasingly generous.

BTW, On The Beach pwns Tonight's The Night, as good an album as that is. Just sayin'.

#33 - simon bedford:

How on earth could anyone hate Wowee Zowee? Are we listening to the same album? Yes, "Western Homes" sucks as an ending, and I could do without maybe one or two other tracks, but..."AT&T;" (their greatest song ever)? "Rattled By The Rush?" "Kennel District?" "Grounded?" "Black Out?" "Grave Architecture?" It's not their most cohesive album, nor is it quite my favorite, but it IS arguably their greatest single achievement.

Mine too, Vortex. "Come on Baby, Let's Go Downtown" (or whatever the title) rocks. "Albuquerque" has always been a favorite.

An interesting note: Wilco's "Passenger Side" (A.M.) appears to me to be a response in many ways to "Roll Another Number," even quoting it.

#57 - Der Komminskar:

I adore the three early EPs contained on Westing and think that the entire "concept" of Pavement can be found there, right from the beginning - great melodies and hooks packed into arty weird little songs - but I'll grant that it's tough to listen to given the production. However, the last EP on that set, Perfect Sound Forever (which runs from "Heckler Spray" to "Krell Vid-User" is every bit the equal of Slanted & Enchanted. It's no accident that they played a majority of the songs on that EP ("Home," "Angel Carver Blues," "Heckler Spray," "From Now On," "Debris Slide,") throughout their entire career. It holds up.

Jack White is currently in The White Stripes and The Raconteurs. He produced (and probably wrote) a lot of Loretta Lynn's Van Lear Rose in 2004. He's touring with the WS now and, during any tour break longer than a few days, flies back to Nashville to write/record with The Raconteurs, who will be touring once the Stripes return from Europe.

BBC sessions

Absolutely. Kentucky Cocktail is utterly essential. Pavement at their noisy and brashest, but also their catchiest. Sccchhhnake.

(Also reminds me that I've never been able to get hold of the SJ's Arizona Record or Dime Map of the Reef, one of which, I believe, contains the original version of the fabulously BBC'ed spookfest "Secret Knowledge of Back Roads." Anyone out there got a copy?)

#77 - Chalek

Yeah, I have both Silver Jews records. Funny that you should single out "Kentucky Cocktail;" I think that's the weakest of the four cuts from their first Peel session. "Circa 1762," the BBC version of "Backroads" (better than the original, IMHO), and the great alternate reading of "Here" (which is the way they performed it live) are all so priceless that "Cocktail" stands out by merely being decent. All of the BBC sessions are great (the one they did in 1995 for the release of Wowee Zowee has a ridiculously great reading of an obscure Spiral Stairs popfest called "Painted Soldiers"), but that one is the best.

God I love this band. I listen to their complete works in chronological order during the work day as I do legal research and draft complaints...and surf BBTF.

Didn't like Pig Lib much at all (apart from the bonus disc). Face the Truth is okay, but I almost never go back and listen to it.

Hoo boy, Westing. I think the melodies aren't quite as good as you find in their later releases and it's a little noisier for its own sake than I like. The Perfect Sound Forever songs are pretty good and, throughout the disc I hear over and over again bits of songs that I could really, really like failing to go beyond that - and there's some stuff which is just Recorder Grot.

Haven't buckled and bought the S&E;reissue yet - maybe I'll get that for my birthday.

Quick - somebody go list all the "bands" Bob Pollard was in...
***
EDIT: Everytime I type S _ampersand_ E - a semicolon appears after it. Kooky.

#79 - Komminsk-sar:

Get both the S&E;and CRCR reissues. They sell for the price of a single CD, and the CRCR reissue includes a boatload of outtakes and B-sides from the sessions. One of them is quite possibly their greatest lost song: "All My Friends." Your head will explode when you hear it, wondering why on earth it was ever left in the vaults. "Soiled Little Filly," "Raft," the hilarious R.E.M. tribute of "Unseen Power Of The Picket Fence," "Same Way Of Saying," "Hands Off The Bayou," the great alternate versions of "Stop Breathin'," "Pueblo," "Grounded," and "Kennel District"...man, it's worth its weight in gold. For a guy like me who likes to trace the development of his favorite bands, it's also a revelation. Among other things, you'll finally get to hear what the beginning of "Fillmore Jive" was really supposed to be!

The Wowee Zowee reissue has a great BBC session (I gush about "Painted Soldiers" above), but is otherwise less essential. Great B-sides/EP tracks on the first disc, the second disc is a bit of a let-down.

As for Westing, I can understand how a lot of it comes off as noise. After all, some tracks are just that - 33 seconds of random sound - but even on the first EP (tracks 1-5) a close listen reveals that every one of those songs is a well-thought out melodic construction. "You're Killing Me"/"Box Elder"/"She Believes" is as good a three-song way to begin a career as any I've heard since "Wolves Lower"/"Gardening At Night"/"Carnival Of Sorts (Boxcars)."

How about a cool beach boys one? ricki fataar beach boys/ the rutles ( he was stig the quiet one) now thats cool!
I thought after slanted/crooked that Wowie was a lazy album of half baked songs, nothing has changed my opinion over time .

81 - simon bedford

I've heard the "lazy half-baked" criticism of WZ before, so I understand it. But if anything I view it as a final hurrah for their arty, experimental side seen on S&E;and the early EPs (and notably missing on Crooked Rain). I don't see anything that's half-baked about songs that I suspect you dismiss, such as "Serpentine Pad," Motion Suggests," "Flux=Rad," "Best Friend's Arm" and "Brinx Job." Only "Extradition" and "Western Homes" genuinely strike me as filler. I'll take 16 out of 18 any time.

I think Wowee Zowee's weakness, if any, is that it ends badly. "Half A Canyon" is fun enough, but the overall effect of ending with "Western Homes" makes the album seem anticlimactic, especially with all those uber-accomplished songs ("We Dance," "Rattled By The Rush," "Black Out," "Grounded," etc.) concentrated near the start of the LP.

Maybe you should give it another chance! "AT&T;," at the very least, ends with the greatest rock scream of the 1990s.

hey Esoteric
i think part of the issue for me, is that crooked was such a strong record that I really enjoyed and it kept getting better until the final track which is probably my favorite pavement song of all time. I kept thinking where can they go from here? sadly they didnt go anywhere that was half as interesting again, although i thought brighten had its moments.

Grounded is probably my favorite Pave track. I love F. Jive, but Grounded has always stuck out for me. It's really simple by comparison, but there's something about it that's always struck a deep chord.

And it's pretty easy to play the cool pointy-sounding riff on guitar too.

83 - simon

I can understand & respect that viewpoint, even though I couldn't disagree more. "Fillmore Jive" is indeed a great track (although I can't listen to it anymore without splicing in "Dark Ages" from the Crooked Rain reissue...I used a CD burning program to do so, now it's finally the complete song it was alway meant to be), but "AT&T;" and "Rattled By The Rush" and "Kennel District" and "Grounded" are all superior by my lights. I really think you should give Wowee Zowee another try...some of their best, most inspiring work is found there, and it's emphatically NOT one of those albums that "has good songs but doesn't hold together." It just has a crappy final track, that's all.

Again, if nothing else, Stephen Malkmus' final, triumphant, liberating howl at the end of "AT&T;" ought to make any lover of great music bounce around on their feet. It's '90s slacker equivalent of Roger Daltrey's "YEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH" from "Won't Get Fooled Again."

I'm embarassed to say this as a Pavement diehard, but I hadn't heard "All My Friends" till last week. Jaw-droppingly good. As is "Nail Clinic," available on the same reissue.
Wowee Zowee is a fantastic album. It suffers from people not thinking it's as cohesive as the first two "proper" albums, but there are still more gems on there than most bands do in a career. "Western Homes" isn't that bad- there's worse songs on the record. Malkmus's take on it in the Pavement documentary is hilarious - he was convinced that "Grounded" and "Rattled" would be massive radio hits, but then admits that "I was smoking a lot of grass at the time." I would say that "Frontwards" is my fave Pavement track, but AT&T;is definitely top 5.



Tonight's the Night is not just Neil Young's best record, it is the best record ever.

And may I take a minute to recommend the Silver Jews to anyone who likes the bands mentioned in the 2nd half of the thread.
American Water is one of the very best records of its decade.

86 - Walewander

I'm interpreting your comment to say that you only just recently purchased the CR,CR reissue. May I recommend "Raft," "Coolin' By Sound," "Haunt You Down," "Unseen Power Of The Picket Fence," "Soiled Little Filly," "Same Way Of Saying," "Hands Off The Bayou," and the BBC version of "Easily Fooled" (titled "The Sutcliffe Catering Song") while I'm at it?

Yes, I know I'm veering into, erm, esoterica at this point. But dammit, I adore this band.

P.S. American Water is fantastic.

I do too.

I'd heard all those before, and yes, I love all those songs. I'd never heard "Nail Clinic" or "Friends" before - I didn't pick up the S&E;reissue cause I already had the extras, and assumed I did for the CR, CR one. Boy, was I wrong.

I saw the SJs touring this year - fantastic show, one of my top-5 ever, and Berman came out and chatted after. He was wearing a Fall T-shirt!

American Water is one of the very best records of its decade.

I'm with that sentiment. One of my absolute faves. That said, the last tune on The Natural Bridge, "Pretty Eyes," is just excellent:

"I believe stars are the headlights of angels
coming from heaven
to save us
to save us
Look in the sky!
They're driving from heaven into our eyes."

Two bands everyone might really like in the indie vein:
Spoon
Tapes 'N Tapes

Spoon's sort of Pavement's opposite: super tight, compact, focused, percussive. Check out A Series of Sneaks or Gimmie Fiction.

Tapes 'N Tapes has a record called The Loon that will satisfy your Pavement sweet tooth. They aren't a back-then copycat band (like F*ck is often accused of being), but they share the tuneful adventurousness of SM and the boys.

Taking a Pavement listening break - it's 'Til Tuesday day! (I'm slowly cleaning up my music collection.) Theeeeeey aren't as good (though much of Aimee's solo stuff is superlative).

I think Spoon is fantastic, while Tapes 'N Tapes is okay-to-good. Admittedly, my biggest problem with TnT is both stupid and not of their making - whenever I hear/see their name, I think of The Music Tapes, which might have been the worst live act I've ever seen.

A couple of multi-bands came to mind while driving:
Seals and Crofts were in The Champs (Tequila) and .... Seals and Crofts

Rick Derringer played with the McCoys, both Johnnie and Edgar Winter, did solo stuff and played with Weird Al.
Now that's a career!

How could you mention Rick Derringers great career and leave out Hulk Hogan?

Taking a Pavement listening break - it's 'Til Tuesday day! (I'm slowly cleaning up my music collection.) Theeeeeey aren't as good (though much of Aimee's solo stuff is superlative).

Upon hearing the early 'Til Tuesday songs, it's pretty amazing that Mann developed as a songwriter to the point where she is now, IMO, the best female singer/songwriter around, (with the possible exception of Lucinda Williams). Though there are signposts - you can hear her style forming in "Limits to Love", for example. iTunes has a solo live-in-the-studio version of "Voices Carry" that's worth hearing. She slows it down and it just breaks your heart...

Mick Taylor went from John Mayall's Bluesbreakers to the Stones, but then the Bluesbreakers shouldn't really count because they had so many alumni.

iTunes has a solo live-in-the-studio version of "Voices Carry" that's worth hearing

This song has always been a guilty pleasure for me. I remember the video from my 1980s MTV days, so I went to youtube to watch it. What I remembered from it is still true: the "male lead" in the video has impossibly high cheeck bones. Like so high that his mouth curls up over his teeth because it's stretched too thin.