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Wednesday, March 05, 2008

Baseball Prospectus’s Organizational Rankings: 1-15

The AL East is awash in young talent:

1. Tampa Bay Rays
Last Year’s Ranking: 1
Why They’re Unchanged: Evan Longoria’s full-season debut went even better than expected, and they added No. 1 overall pick David Price to the system.
Strengths: Yes. There are just tons of prospects everywhere, as 20 of MLB’s 30 teams don’t have one prospect ranked higher than Tampa’s fifth-rated player.
Weaknesses: It’s hard to figure out what to do with all of this talent. Seriously, they’re not just No. 1, they’re No. 1 by a mile.
Outlook for 2009 Ranking: Unchanged. Even with Longoria in the big leagues, the Rays have more than enough talent to remain at the top, and once again, they have the first overall pick in June.

4. Boston Red Sox
Last Year’s Ranking: 11
Why They’re Up: Clay Buchholz became the top pitching prospect in the game, Jacoby Ellsbury grabbed the center field job, and they had a strong ‘07 draft.
Strengths: Right-handed pitching; toolsy outfielders.
Weaknesses: Catching; pure power prospects.
Outlook for 2009 Ranking: Down significantly, as Buchholz and Ellsbury move to the majors and leave no elite prospects in their wake.

6. New York Yankees
Last Year’s Ranking: 3
Why They’re Down: The performances of Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy, along with Austin Jackson’s breakout, were offset by Philip Hughes’ graduation to the majors and injuries to Humberto Sanchez and Dellin Betances.
Strengths: Pitching, pitching, and more pitching; high-ceiling outfielders; big investments in Latin America.
Weaknesses: Infielders and catchers.
Outlook for 2009 Ranking: Down a bit, as Joba and possibly some others will lose eligibility.

Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 05, 2008 at 01:48 PM | 45 comment(s)
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   1. Harold Reynolds: An Erotic Life (AG#1F) Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:13 PM (#2706760)
15 seems high for the Cards. They have Rasmus and....then what?

Hard for me to argue with the top eight.
   2. flournoy Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:14 PM (#2706763)
8. Atlanta Braves
Strengths: Tons of interesting young pitching; multi-faceted outfielders.
Weaknesses: Catching and infielders.


Funny how fast systems cycle. It doesn't seem too long ago that the Braves had no outfield prospects beyond Francoeur. At that time, they had McCann, Saltalamacchia, and Max Ramirez behind the plate, with Escobar, Andrus, Campbell, and some of the pretend-prospects (think Tony Pena) around the infield.
   3. mlbfan303 Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:15 PM (#2706766)
Reds seem a little high
   4. Cowboy Popup Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:18 PM (#2706770)
The AL East is awash in young talent:

How could you skip the O's in the preview?
   5. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:25 PM (#2706773)
Interesting that the Braves IF depth has been mentioned a lot this offseason, given they spent most of their draft picking IFs.
Hicks looks ok, Fisher should move to 2B, Diory Hernandez had a pretty good season at MS. There is Lillibridge and Prado and the mirage that someday Eric Campbell is going to put it together. And scouts for some reason really like Van Pope.


Thats not great, but its not barren.
   6. Danny Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:33 PM (#2706779)
Average rank by division

AL East: 9.0
AL West: 9.8
NL West: 14.0
NL Central: 16.2
NL East: 19.4
AL Central: 23.4
   7. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:37 PM (#2706785)
How could you skip the O's in the preview?

I didn't. Someone (or maybe the software) cut them out.
   8. Cowboy Popup Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:42 PM (#2706793)
Someone (or maybe the software) cut them out.

It's a conspiracy!

I'm very surprised at how high the A's system ranked. I guess they have reloaded pretty well per Goldstein. That's nice, I like it when the A's matter, or at least, when the Angels aren't guaranteed to win their division and beat the Yankees in the playoffs.
   9. Danny Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:44 PM (#2706796)
I didn't. Someone (or maybe the software) cut them out.

I think only one person is allowed to write incredibly long previews, and Harveys inherited that privilege from Rifkin.
   10. Russ Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:52 PM (#2706804)

Funny how some fast systems cycle.


Fixed.

For systems like the Pirates', it's more like infinitely long cycling on an exercise bike...
   11. DKDC Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:54 PM (#2706808)
Average rank by division

AL East: 9.0
AL West: 9.8
NL West: 14.0
NL Central: 16.2
NL East: 19.4
AL Central: 23.4


I think that understates the dominance of the AL East.

The AL East has only slightly more top 100 prospects than the AL West (23 to 21).

But the AL East has nine prospects ranked higher than the highest ranked AL West prospect (Barton @ #22).
   12. Moscow Hiding In The Shadows Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:56 PM (#2706810)
1. Tampa Bay Rays
Last Year’s Ranking: 1

Weaknesses: It’s hard to figure out what to do with all of this talent.


That's gotta be one of the year's better straight lines.
   13. akrasian Posted: March 05, 2008 at 04:02 PM (#2706817)
But the AL East has nine prospects ranked higher than the highest ranked AL West prospect (Barton @ #22).

Yeah, but how many of those are Tampa Bay's?
   14. JJ1986 Posted: March 05, 2008 at 04:04 PM (#2706819)
Yeah, but how many of those are Tampa Bay's?

Probably 4. (Longoria, Price, McGee, Davis) I'm not looking at the list, but I'd guess Yankees, Blue Jays and Orioles (Joba, Snider, Wieters) each have one. Red Sox have 2. (Buchholz, Ellsbury)
   15. Danny Posted: March 05, 2008 at 04:05 PM (#2706821)
I think that understates the dominance of the AL East.

The AL East has only slightly more top 100 prospects than the AL West (23 to 21).

But the AL East has nine prospects ranked higher than the highest ranked AL West prospect (Barton @ #22).

That's just an average of Goldstein's rankings, and I think he did more than just count the number of players in his top 100.
   16. The Essex Snead Posted: March 05, 2008 at 04:19 PM (#2706841)
That's gotta be one of the year's better straight lines.

LOL look at what happened to a D-Ray team that had no shot @ contention even if everything broke their way when they dared to actually try & separate the wheat from the chaff on their roster over the course of the regular season for the first time ever in franchise history (instead of simply plugging holes and non-holes w/ subpar options and slouching to the same sad end as before).

O/U on the # of posts until some burgeoning genius dusts off the "I'll believe it when it actually happens" line regarding TBA?
   17. DKDC Posted: March 05, 2008 at 04:22 PM (#2706846)
Yeah, but how many of those are Tampa Bay's?

The Devil Rays alone have more prospect talent than the entire AL Central, and arguably the NL East.

But the AL East without the Devil Rays probably still has more talent than any other division, except for possibly the AL West.
   18. John DiFool2 Posted: March 05, 2008 at 04:32 PM (#2706857)
Outlook for 2009 Ranking: Down significantly, as Buchholz and Ellsbury move to the majors and leave no elite prospects in their wake.


Why wouldn't Buch and Jake not count anymore? "Organization" includes the majors, yeeass? I'd certainly include pre-arb youngsters in my rankings, as their presence as regulars for their respective teams would most definitely indicate organizational excellence, right?
   19. DKDC Posted: March 05, 2008 at 04:45 PM (#2706863)
These rankings only include prospects, which are essentially all players that are still eligible to win a ROY award in the future.

I'd guess that the Red Sox would rank lower than #4 if it included pre-arb youngsters.
   20. Rich Rifkin Posted: March 05, 2008 at 05:06 PM (#2706878)
I recall that Keith Law ranked the A's organization No. 10 (after the Swisher and Haren trades) and the Giants No. 9. I'm not sure who is right, but I'm happier (as a fan) to see that Goldstein puts the A's at No. 2. I don't have a subscription to Prospectus, so I don't know where he has the Giants, other than somewhere lower than No. 19. And from what I have seen of the San Francisco players in person (in A-ball, AAA and in SF), I am inclined to think Goldstein is closer to right than Law is. In fact, if you take out Angel Villalona -- he still hasn't yet made it up to the California League -- I don't think the Giants have a single position player "prospect" in their system. It may be another 24 years before they produce an all-star position player (if Villalona does not pan out).
I think only one person is allowed to write incredibly long previews, and Harveys inherited that privilege from Rifkin.
It's nice to be known for something!
   21. Al Kaline Trio Posted: March 05, 2008 at 05:12 PM (#2706882)
The Devil Rays alone have more prospect talent than the entire AL Central, and arguably the NL East.


And they seem to have started deciding which prospects they want to keep and which to trade for MLB quality talent.
   22. AlouGoodbye Posted: March 05, 2008 at 05:19 PM (#2706885)
In fact, if you take out Angel Villalona -- he still hasn't yet made it up to the California League -- I don't think the Giants have a single position player "prospect" in their system.
Noonan, Fairley. They may not pan out, of course.
   23. chick-a-DOOM chick-a-DOOM Posted: March 05, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2706891)
would somebody with a subscription please tell me where the astros rank? 29 or 30?
   24. Cowboy Popup Posted: March 05, 2008 at 05:30 PM (#2706893)
29 or 30?

29th, the White Sox are 30th.

Here's the link. I think it's free as well.
   25. chick-a-DOOM chick-a-DOOM Posted: March 05, 2008 at 05:35 PM (#2706896)
CP

thank you

it's not free from 20-30

amazing that both the astros and the sox were in the WS just a few years ago and now we both suck BIG time and have no prospects...

hmmmmmmm

maybe THERE is something to write about
   26. chick-a-DOOM chick-a-DOOM Posted: March 05, 2008 at 05:36 PM (#2706898)
CP

thank you

it's not free from 20-30

amazing that both the astros and the sox were in the WS just a few years ago and now we both suck BIG time and have no prospects...

hmmmmmmm

maybe THERE is something to write about
   27. kevin Posted: March 05, 2008 at 05:56 PM (#2706914)
Strengths: Right-handed pitching; toolsy outfielders.
Weaknesses: Catching; pure power prospects.


Aside from Ellsbury, who are the toolsy outfielders? Kalish? Place?
   28. villageidiom Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:04 PM (#2706921)
I'd guess that the Red Sox would rank lower than #4 if it included pre-arb youngsters.

They have Papelbon, Pedroia, Lester, and Delcarmen pre-arb. Not sure whether Matsuzaka and Okajima would be considered pre-arb. My understanding is that they should be considered as such, but I could be wrong.
   29. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:09 PM (#2706923)
amazing that both the astros and the sox were in the WS just a few years ago and now we both suck BIG time and have no prospects...


If that's a trade-off, it's worth it to this White Sox fan.
   30. Cowboy Popup Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:09 PM (#2706924)
who are the toolsy outfielders?

I'm guessing Reddick and Lin on top of Kalish, I have no idea who Place is.
   31. Sparkles Peterson Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:20 PM (#2706931)
15 seems high for the Cards. They have Rasmus and....then what?


That's their only superstar prospect, but they actually have a lot of depth. There might not be another star in the minors (Mortensen is probably the best bet), but there's also quite a lot of value in graduating three or four players who are league average in big roles.
   32. DKDC Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:30 PM (#2706935)
They have Papelbon, Pedroia, Lester, and Delcarmen pre-arb. Not sure whether Matsuzaka and Okajima would be considered pre-arb. My understanding is that they should be considered as such, but I could be wrong.

There's a lot of different ways you could do it, but the focus should be on players that are cheap and far from free agency. I certainly wouldn't count Dice-K.

Some teams that could leapfrog the Red Sox if you included that set of players (I'm sure I missed some names):

Dodgers: Martin, Kemp, Billingsley, Loney, Broxton, Abreu, Ethier
Yankees: Hughes, Cano, Melky, Wang, Britton
Rockies: Tulo, Jimenez, Francis, Ianetta, Corpas
Orioles: Markakis, Jones, Loewen, Guthrie, Ray, Scott, Sherrill, Moore, Albers
   33. Cowboy Popup Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:38 PM (#2706939)
Yankees: Hughes, Cano, Melky, Wang, Britton

Edwar and that unspellable fellow from the Nats!

The Nats have Zimmerman, Dukes, Milledge, and Flores. Those first three are a pretty awesome collection of talent. I'm sure they have some young pitching as well (Chico?). Don't know if it's any good.
   34. JJ1986 Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:49 PM (#2706945)
The Nats have Zimmerman, Dukes, Milledge, and Flores. Those first three are a pretty awesome collection of talent. I'm sure they have some young pitching as well (Chico?). Don't know if it's any good.

Chico's not that good. He might not even make the team this year. Shawn Hill is good, but might be the next John Patterson as far as his injury record goes. Jason Bergmann is probably a decent 3-4 starter. They also have Chris Schroder in the bullpen who's awesome but kind of old.
   35. Danny Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:49 PM (#2706946)
Brewers: Braun, Fielder, Hart, Weeks, Gallardo, Villanueva

As for the Yankees, Wang and Cano are both arb-eligible.
   36. DKDC Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:51 PM (#2706947)
Edwar and that unspellable fellow from the Nats!

Edwar and Albaladejo are still considered prospects, so they are already accounted for in the Yankees #6 ranking.
   37. TDF, situational idiot Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#2706953)
Reds seem a little high


-Consensus top player (Bruce)
-Another top 10 (Bailey)
-Another top 20 (Votto)
-Another at #41 (Cueto)
-Two more who could start for the club in '10 (Frazier, Stubbs)

Show me a team below them clearly more deserving.
   38. ValueArb Posted: March 05, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2706959)
I recall that Keith Law ranked the A's organization No. 10 (after the Swisher and Haren trades) and the Giants No. 9. I'm not sure who is right, but I'm happier (as a fan) to see that Goldstein puts the A's at No. 2.


I was at the game today and was pretty impressed as I leafed through their guide. Or maybe I was just influenced by the thrashing they were putting on the Padres.
   39. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: March 05, 2008 at 07:05 PM (#2706963)
The Devil Rays alone have more prospect talent than the entire AL Central, and arguably the NL East.

Huh?! The NL East has the Braves and Nats systems. And the Marlins have a boatload of pitching prospects.
Frankly I think the Reds should be above the Red Sox and Yankees. They have so much high impact talent.
   40. BourbonSamurai Posted: March 05, 2008 at 07:46 PM (#2706980)
As an A's fan who will likely get few opportunities to say this during the regular season:

the pennant is ours!
   41. Rich Posted: March 05, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2706993)
6. New York Yankees
[...]
Weaknesses:...catchers.


Montero, Cervelli, Romine?
   42. Master of Karate and Friendship (Kyle C) Posted: March 05, 2008 at 09:24 PM (#2707026)
I don't think anyone believes Montero will be a catcher in the majors. I'm a big fan of Cervelli, but his upside seems like an okay hitter for a catcher.

Romine's too early to really make any call on. He's certainly interesting, but the majority of high draft picks are, especially before playing full season ball.
   43. Rich Posted: March 05, 2008 at 09:53 PM (#2707037)
Weems, Anson, Arcia...
   44. Rich Rifkin Posted: March 05, 2008 at 11:15 PM (#2707075)
"Noonan, Fairley. They may not pan out, of course."

Alou,

If you're ever in the Sacramento-Stockton area, I recommend taking in a few minor league games. Stockton has the A's California League team, the Ports. They have a great new ballpark. We go down there for a couple of San Jose Bees-Stockton Ports contests, each year. It's nice to see in person some of the "prospects." I saw Lincecum pitch in relief for San Jose, once, a few years ago. He did well, not surprisingly. And in Sacramento, you just can't do better than the A's AAA facility, Raley Field. The only downside to seeing Sacramento River Cats games is that the prices are high for a minor league ballgame. Because I have friends who are fans of the Dodgers (and of course the Giants), we mostly go when the Area 51s or the Fresno Grizzlies are in town.... I cannot imagine a better place to be for a ballgame on a summer evening than in Sacramento. Very hot in the day, but perfect at night.
   45. Jim Wisinski Posted: March 06, 2008 at 11:23 AM (#2707298)
And the Marlins have a boatload of pitching prospects.


Yeah, but it's Volstad (a good but not great prospect) and a bunch of guys that aren't all that special.
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