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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Monday, June 02, 2008
Here’s a challenge ... can you name the greatese single Franchise Position in baseball history? Isn’t it Left Field, Boston Red Sox?
Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski you know about. Before them came Duffy Lewis—who would have made a bushel of All-Star Games had there been such a thing back then—and after them came Jim Rice, Mike Greenwell and now Manny Ramirez, the latter who is also headed to the HOF.
Um ... wow. I don’t think even NYY 1B—Gehrig, Skowron, Chambliss, Mattingly—comes close to that. Does anyone else come close?
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Athletics 1B: Davis, Foxx, McGwire
Pirates SS: Wagner, Vaughan... um, Jay Bell?
Yankees CF: Combs, DiMaggio, Mantle, Williams
Indians CF: Speaker, Averill, Doby
Yankees RF: Ruth, Henrich, Selkirk, Reggie!, Winfield
I would add Maris to the Yankees RF.
I would probably go with the Yanks CF, but the Red Sox LF is right behind them. The difference is greater if you include defense.
How interesting can it really be when most teams hide their worst defensive player in LF?
By total number of players, yes.
What separates the Red Sox (if indeed they are at the top) is the total number of seasons these guys put in at the position. Toss out a couple of war years and the period between Greenwell and Manny, and those are the only five regular leftfielders the Red Sox have had since 1939.
98- Daal, 146 ERA+.
99- RJ, 186.
00- RJ, 181.
01- RJ, 188.
02- RJ, 197.
03- Webb, 165.
04- RJ, 177.
05- Webb, 126.
06- Webb, 152.
07- Webb, 156.
Yaz was pretty good....
I think Dodger ace takes these guys behind the woodshed.
Yaz was pretty good....
"Worst" is especially incorrect during the two years when Dick Stuart played at Boston.
1880s, Charles Comiskey (HoF);
1890s, Roger Connor (HoF);
19aughts, Jake Beckley (HoF);
1910s, Ed Konetchy (career OPS+ of 122 in over 2000 games);
early 1920s, Jack Fournier (career OPS+ of 142 in over 1530 games);
1920s, Jim Bottomley (HoF);
1930s, Ripper Collins (career OPS+ of 126 in over 1000 games);
1940s, Johnny Mize (HoF);
1950s, Stan Musial (HoF);
1960s, Bill White (5-time all star, 7 gold gloves, career OPS+ of 116 in over 1500 games);
1960s, Orlando Cepeda (HoF)
early 1970s, Joe Torre (career OPS+ of 128 in over 2000 games)
1970s, Keith Hernandez (career OPS+ of 128 in over 2000 games)
1980s, Jack Clark (career OPS+ of 137 in almost 2000 games)
early 1990s, Pedro Guerrero (career OPS+ of 137 in over 1500 games)
late 1990s, Mark McGwire
2000s, Albert Pujols
plus McGwire
But post 10 pointed it out, I'm pretty sure the Hardball Times did this article/research.
I was just pointing out that the Yankees stud players are at a defensive position, while most other teams put them at a less important defensive position(DH, 1B, LF, RF). Of course that might explain the number of world series championships, too. I think someone said it, but C is also pretty solid for the Yanks.
Except that you can't really claim a new york bias, given that New York Centerfield is probably the best. New York 1st base is just weird - its not really been one of the Yankee's better positions, other than Gehrig.
rabbit maranville, leo durocher, marty marion, dick groat, dal maxvill, ozzie smith, edgar renteria and ... um ... royce clayton?
:-)
And Giambi, too.
I don't think the A's have anything to match STL 1B or BOS LF, but A's Ace Reliever probably tops other teams: Fingers, Eckersley, Street, short, solid stints from a lot of others (Isringhausen, Foulke...). Though now that I think about it, the Yankees, with Gossage and Rivera and Wetteland, probably win out there too.
I thought that was 1B. I'd rather have a bad 1B than a bad LF.
.
The a's probably win relief ace, not sure that the Yankees beat the Cardinals in that regard though (Sutter, Smith, Worrell, Isringhausen, Hrabosky--two top 5 cy young appearances) although having Rivera alone probably equals any two relief ace. Of course relief ace is relatively a new concept and will probably be filled with two-five year players.
Of course I'm a tremendous Rivera fan, and don't think anyone, including Gossage, is comparable to him in the role as relief ace. (of course I'm adjusting for eras, but the sustained excellence from Rivera is almost unheard of for his role)
Cubs have had some great RF's.
In most parks, yes. In Fenway, if you learn to play the caroms off the wall, it matters much less how much range or what kind arm the LF has than it does in most parks. Manny from what I can tell misreads too many balls and has limited range, which combine make him a poor defensive OF despite knowing the wall reasonably well and having a decent arm.
If we're doing pitchers, then how about Red Sox ace?
Pedro, Clemens, Cy Young and Lefty Grove are a pretty solid group.
Plus Babe Ruth...
not going to put Babe Ruth on that list?
Second base isn't too shabby either... Joe Morgan, Bill Doran, Craig Biggio, Jeff Kent, etc...
Also Dick Groat, one of the few two-sport stars who was actually great at both sports.
As for bullpens, how about the A's? Grove, Rommel, Fingers, Eckersley...
Couple good years from Jim Brosnan, too, including the pennant-winner in 1961.
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