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Wednesday, July 02, 2008

BBD: Brattain: Could Sean Forman have saved Mickey Mantle’s career?…

Cripes!...Over the weekend Sean Forman couldn’t save me from drowning in Diet Cokes. (GLUG-GLUG numbers can be found at B-Ref Play Index)

To give an idea of how different the leagues were in 1968 and 2007 let’s look at what an average player produced those years…
1968 AL   .238/.307/.352
2007 AL   .271/.338/.423
What would Mantle’s 1967-68 totals look like today?
Mantle’s 1967 season in 2007’s environment .289/.444/.509
Mantle’s 1968 season in 2007’s environment .292/.453/.490
Sadly, Mantle felt he was done because there was insufficient understanding of how good he still was back in the late 1960’s. With our modern understanding of numbers we do--alas it is too late to convince Mantle not to retire (unless he was simply tired of all the aches and pains). The fact remains that he was still among one of the better hitters in the American League when he called it quits.

Repoz Posted: July 02, 2008 at 07:33 AM | 15 comment(s)
Related News: General, History, Sabermetrics, NY Yankees

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1. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:43 AM (#2840149)

Brattain can crush your skull with an onslaught of bad puns or with his massive guns!

Anyway, it's my understanding that the aches and pains were indeed a significant factor in his choice to retire.

2. The Good Face Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:56 AM (#2840159)

A real shame Sean Forman wasn't around then... that Mantle guy might have had a pretty nice career.

3. Cabbage Posted: July 02, 2008 at 10:17 AM (#2840186)

Sean Forman does interventions?

4. Jolly Old St. Nick (now, with Screen Name history) Posted: July 02, 2008 at 10:26 AM (#2840206)

With these four friendly hints, Mantle really could have been the second coming of Babe Ruth, and then some:

1. Lay off the high school football

2. Watch where you step when you run after fly balls

3. Don't mess with Red Schoendienst

4. Keep it down to one six pack a night

5. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: July 02, 2008 at 02:13 PM (#2840433)

5. Don't listen to Mel Allen (According to the Billy Crystal movie)

6. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 02, 2008 at 03:51 PM (#2840519)

Maypo killed the Mick.

7. rdfc Posted: July 02, 2008 at 06:11 PM (#2840663)

Somehow, I doubt Mantle cared about how he was doing compared to league average. He cared about the fact that he was struggling compared to the standards he had set for himself, and the pain he was feeling in the course of producing that lesser production.

Yes, he still had value for the team when he retired. But that doesn't mean that he should've valued that level of offense, regardless of the offensive context of the time.

8. Steve Treder Posted: July 02, 2008 at 06:18 PM (#2840669)

Somehow, I doubt Mantle cared about how he was doing compared to league average. He cared about the fact that he was struggling compared to the standards he had set for himself, and the pain he was feeling in the course of producing that lesser production.

Exactly. Plus, he was always, literally, one more twisted knee away from never being able to walk again. I've never bought into the "he retired too soon" line of reasoning; I'd say he retired at just the appropriate point.

9. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: July 02, 2008 at 06:24 PM (#2840673)

I agree, it's why I wrote...

To begin with, from Mantle’s standpoint, his final two seasons were profoundly discouraging. Fans watching the Yankees on TV would have seen the following totals by Mantle’s name at year's end…

Year AVG HR RBI
1967 .245 22 55
1968 .237 18 54

At this point, he was playing first base--for someone accustomed to hitting 30-50 HR, 90-130 RBI (from the key defensive position of centerfield) annually the above totals would seem pretty pathetic.

Best Regards

John

10. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: July 02, 2008 at 06:31 PM (#2840674)

Exactly. Plus, he was always, literally, one more twisted knee away from never being able to walk again. I've never bought into the "he retired too soon" line of reasoning; I'd say he retired at just the appropriate point.

I'm not sure he would've retired had the Yankees still been in contention and he knew he was productive. In his autobiography he said the day he retired was the second worst day of his life (losing his dad was the worst)--I'm sure he would've stuck around another year or two under different circumstances.

For a ballplayer retirement is a long time and after all the other abuses he put his body through I can't see him sweating totally destroying his legs. The cheers can be as addictive as the booze for some and the thought of nuking his liver didn't seem to deter him so I can't see any greater concern for his legs.

Best Regards

John

11. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 02, 2008 at 06:45 PM (#2840681)

I wonder if he would have stuck around if he could sign for half a season for a pro-rated $27M.

12. Steve Treder Posted: July 02, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2840683)

I'm sure he would've stuck around another year or two under different circumstances

Perhaps, but he wasn't dealing with different circumstances.

13. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: July 02, 2008 at 07:03 PM (#2840689)

You mean he wasn't dealing with circumstances different from the circumstances he was dealing with?

14. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 02, 2008 at 11:35 PM (#2841506)

Mantle often referred to the disappointment he felt when his career average fell below .300. That happened on May 7, 1968, followed by five long months of physically painful .255 hitting for a 5th-place team.

15. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: July 03, 2008 at 06:35 AM (#2841857)

Perhaps, but he wasn't dealing with different circumstances.

Touche.

Best Regards

John

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