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Tuesday, November 17, 2009

BBWAA: Royals’ Zack Greinke Wins In Landslide

Zack Greinke of the Kansas City Royals was an overwhelming choice for the American League Cy Young Award despite posting a victory total that matched the lowest for any winner in either league among starting pitchers in a full season.

Pitching for a team that was next to last in the AL in average runs per game, Greinke compiled a 16-8 record with a 2.16 ERA. No AL starter had won the Cy Young Award without winning at least 18 games. Greinke fell two victories short and equaled the output of 2006 National League winner Brandon Webb, who was 16-8 that year for the Arizona Diamondbacks.

Grienke, 26, who held opponents to one run or fewer in 18 of his 33 starts, was named first on 25 and second on the other three ballots cast by two writers in each league city for a total of 134 points, based on the 5-3-1 tabulation system. The righthander’s league-best ERA was the lowest in the AL since 2000 Cy Young Award winner Pedro Martinez had a 1.74 ERA for the Boston Red Sox. Greinke also was second in complete games (6), shutouts (3), strikeouts (242) and opponents’ batting average (.230). He was the only pitcher named on all ballots.

Seattle Mariners righthander Felix Hernandez (19-5, 2.49 ERA), received two first-place votes and finished second in the balloting with 80 points. The other first-place vote went to Detroit Tigers righthander Justin Verlander (19-9, 3.92 ERA), who placed third overall. Hernandez and Verlander were tied for the AL lead in victories. Hernandez led the league in winning percentage (.792) and batting average against (.227) and Verlander in innings (240) and strikeouts (269).

Repoz Posted: November 17, 2009 at 06:56 PM | 122 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
  Related News: GeneralKansas CityAwards

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Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. Harold Posted: November 18, 2009 at 12:07 AM (#3389985)
Um, no. Batter has some effect on this, too. (And umpire.)

Well, duh. Did you think I didn't know that? When I'm contrasting them with something "teammate-dependent," clearly I'm referring to the dependence on teammates, and not on the batter and umpire.

K/9 and BB/9 are not, in isolation, wholly informative. Someone could have 27 K/9 but lose every game because when the batter doesn't miss the ball, it gets crushed. Similarly, 0 BB/9 could just mean that the guy grooves everything once he gets to 3 balls.

Of course. I've probably been the biggest advocate on this site of using BF as the denominator rather than innings.

Of course, to be complete in either case (per 9 or per BFP) one should (as I originally noted) consider the opposition faced, as Ks and BBs aren't solely pitcher-dependent events, either. We simply assume that there is a sufficiently connected set of pitcher-batter edges that we can meaningfully compare one pitcher to another, even if all edges are not created equal (e.g., lefty/righty match-up, curveball pitcher vs. off-speed hitter, etc.). While the set is not usually as dense as one would like, I suspect it is usually in the "close enough" category.

Sure. But this is true of pretty much every single metric, and has nothing specifically to do with ERA or FIP or K rate.
   102. Harold Posted: November 18, 2009 at 12:09 AM (#3389988)
If you ask the Usenet guys, they've been having the same arguments for a lot longer than 8 years.

Not really. I don't think any of the arguments that were commonplace in the '90s are still common today. But the DIPS discussion has been a central part of BTF for its entire history, and people are making literally the same arguments today as some did in 2001.
   103. John DiFool2 Posted: November 18, 2009 at 12:35 AM (#3390002)
I don't know how the NL voting will shake out, but they may just get all 6 right, or at least not completely #### up at least once. Pujols will likely win again, but Hanley wouldn't be anything close to a travesty.
   104. Baseball-Birthdays.com Posted: November 18, 2009 at 12:51 AM (#3390012)
Can anybody find the thread (from last year, I think) where the BBWAA web designer came to say that he thought his old neon green site was "fun?"




Can't help there, but the current site isn't exactly a paragon of good design.


amen.
   105. Morally Excellent Posted: November 18, 2009 at 02:13 AM (#3390066)

If anyone got screwed in the voting [in 2003] (and I don't think anyone did), that person was Esteban Loaiza.


Tim Hudson
   106. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: November 18, 2009 at 03:06 AM (#3390109)
Pedro should win the Cy Young every year he's eligible.
   107. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 18, 2009 at 04:14 AM (#3390153)
If you ask the Usenet guys, they've been having the same arguments for a lot longer than 8 years.

Not really. I don't think any of the arguments that were commonplace in the '90s are still common today.
Joe Carter for MVP!
   108. Mike Emeigh Posted: November 18, 2009 at 04:27 AM (#3390164)
"Fielder-dependent" != "pitcher-independent". While a significant portion of pitching is affected by fielding, this does not indicate that the fielders "alone" are responsible for "everything" that is affected by fielding.

-- MWE
   109. Tom Nawrocki Posted: November 18, 2009 at 04:29 AM (#3390166)
The arguments about market size we've been having sound awfully similar to the ones on rsbb going back at least to 1994.

It would be cool if we had a discussion about whether today's players are too mollycoddled.
   110. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 18, 2009 at 04:35 AM (#3390170)
Well, I think Greinke was mollycoddled. Think of how many Cy Youngs he'd have if he didn't take a year off!
   111. Tripon Posted: November 18, 2009 at 04:37 AM (#3390171)

Well, I think Greinke was mollycoddled. Think of how many Cy Youngs he'd have if he didn't take a year off!


Zero, because he would have quit playing baseball?
   112. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 18, 2009 at 04:47 AM (#3390178)
Why would he have quit if he was just taking a year off?

Never mind that I made a completely facetious comment...
   113. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 18, 2009 at 05:26 AM (#3390194)
If there is an article titled "Yankees in talks with Royals", I will scream so loud that every glass in North America will shatter.

Did you see Greinke's comments, from the AP article?:

Winning left the extremely shy Greinke with mixed emotions.

"Back in Orlando, I haven't really got a whole lot of attention from people, which has been nice," he said. "So I hope it doesn't get that way, where everyone is like, `Oh, hey, Zack, hi.'"

He'd prefer to remain anonymous when he's not on the mound. He's not looking forward to being introduced at banquets as "Cy Young Award winner Zack Greinke" for the rest of his life.

"In that way, it's kind of like a negative for me," he said.

...

"I really don't like having a bunch of attention, so even if I did see myself in that light, I don't do anything about it," he said. "I'm real uncomfortable doing stuff like that, to be around people and doing stuff like that," he said.


I interpret this as: Greinke will never go to any team where he feels he will be under a microscope. Thus, he won't be going to either NY team, Boston, the Cubbies, and probably a few others. Controlling his social anxiety has to trump all offers of money and championships.

So I think we can rest easy (and so can he).
   114. Tripon Posted: November 18, 2009 at 05:29 AM (#3390195)
Primakov, Greinke said he'd be fine pitching for any team except the Yankees.
   115. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: November 18, 2009 at 05:32 AM (#3390199)
Primakov, Greinke said he'd be fine pitching for any team except the Yankees.


Wow, that vaults him way up my Favoritest Player Ever list.
   116. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 18, 2009 at 06:09 AM (#3390208)
I didn't see that. When did he say that?
   117. Tripon Posted: November 18, 2009 at 06:23 AM (#3390210)
Even so, Greinke’s growing confidence becomes evident in hearing him suggest that he could succeed outside of the cocoon of the only organization that he has ever known.

“[The environment] had a lot to do with [signing the extension], for sure,” said Greinke. “Now, maybe New York would bother me, but I don’t think anywhere else would bother me anymore. Even though I’m in Kansas City, I’ve gotten used to it a lot more. New York, I still might have trouble in New York. I probably would. But I think almost everyone does.”




Greinke would not pitch for the Mets or Yankees.
   118. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 18, 2009 at 06:30 AM (#3390216)
Thanks Tripon. I guess it means we Sox fans have hope. ;)
   119. tl; dr (Voxter) Posted: November 18, 2009 at 06:31 AM (#3390217)
I didn't see that. When did he say that?


He carved it into a tablet and handed it down the mountain, along with nine or so other items.
   120. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 18, 2009 at 06:31 AM (#3390218)
"Assenheimer" is still a great name, though.

The more you assen, the less you heimer. The less you heimer, the more you assen. Assenheimer, Assenheimer, Assen Assenheimer.
   121. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 18, 2009 at 06:31 PM (#3390493)
He carved it into a tablet and handed it down the mountain, along with nine or so other items.


So, when we're referring to Zack Greinke, we no longer refer to him by his real name, but instead call him by his son's name (who is also God), and that name is "Matt Wieters"?

Or has Wieters awful, terrible, HoF-blocking rookie year resulted in his being cast down into Trubyland?
   122. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 19, 2009 at 02:34 AM (#3390857)
The arguments about market size we've been having sound awfully similar to the ones on rsbb going back at least to 1994.
We don't have Scott Susor claiming that small markets like Houston can't compete with big markets like Cincinnati, do we?
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