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Monday, June 22, 2009

BDD: Baer: Statistics Are Not Like Bikinis

Does this mean I have to chuck my Jaime Lynn Fox/Paige Hopewell DVD?

I say all of this, of course, in regard to the article that Brian (Joseph) wrote yesterday about Sabermetrics. Some of the criticism was valid, but he didn’t identify the correct target, which should have been us, the fallible humans. His criticisms (such as Sabermetrics being subjectively objective) didn’t put any chinks the armor of Sabermetrics because Sabermetrics — essentially one of baseball’s sciences — is adaptable. If there’s a problem with an aspect of Sabermetrics, go ahead and change it.

Additionally, Sabermetrics — contrary to the claims of many who don’t trust it — is not adhered to religiously. Just because PECOTA says Matt Wieters is going to smoke some American League pitching doesn’t mean that he is, in fact, going to smoke some American League pitching. We can choose to accept what various analyses say, or we can reject them. Just because one prefers DIPS to ERA doesn’t mean one is bound to the conclusions reached via DIPS and cannot utilize ERA in analysis.

I don’t write this as a jab back at Brian, what with me being someone who utilizes Sabermetrics. I welcome and enjoy reading well-written, well-researched criticisms of the sciences because it can only help us improve. It is important, though, to identify who or what is really at fault, and in the case of Brian’s criticisms, it’s the people using the science and not the actual science itself.

Repoz Posted: June 22, 2009 at 10:57 AM | 17 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   1. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: June 22, 2009 at 11:44 AM (#3227468)
In case anyone's interested, if you click on the link you'll see that Baer and Joseph went back and forth on this for the better part of nine hours, before calling it quits well after midnight. Needless to say, nothing was resolved.
   2. Delicious Cake Posted: June 22, 2009 at 12:27 PM (#3227501)
Crashburn is my hero.
   3. Crashburn Alley Posted: June 22, 2009 at 12:32 PM (#3227508)
Re #1, we didn't "go at it". It was a good-natured discussion. I made sure Brian wasn't offended by my response or by anything I said. We were just debating.
   4. The District Attorney Posted: June 22, 2009 at 12:46 PM (#3227525)
This is a good time for me to mention that, when I accused Crashburn here recently of being too Phillies fanboyish, I think I had confused him with Joseph, so my apologies to him.
   5. Bob Dernier Cri Posted: June 22, 2009 at 01:15 PM (#3227566)
Wait. I always thought that statistics were exactly like bikinis.
   6. Tom T Posted: June 22, 2009 at 01:16 PM (#3227568)
Hey Repoz, if you need that DVD autographed (by Paige, not Jaime, sorry), lemme know...thesis committee meeting (heck...defense) coming up soon!
   7. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: June 22, 2009 at 01:16 PM (#3227572)
Get your head out of a spreadsheet and go to a beach, Bob.
   8. Danny Posted: June 22, 2009 at 01:24 PM (#3227589)
This is the guy we get to defend sabermetrics against charges of misusing statistics? Oy. ;)
   9. fra paolo Posted: June 22, 2009 at 01:36 PM (#3227601)
I don’t think anyone ever said batting average did anything but measure how often a player is expected to get a hit per at-bat

This is from the comments, and illustrates once again why I think Joseph should go away and come back when he has a clearer handle on what he wants to say.

Batting average measures what has happened, not what will happen. You can project a batting average, but that's not the same thing.

There's a muddleheaded trend out there that is thinking sabermetrics is all about projections. It's not. It's just an attempt to prove or disprove statements about baseball, like 'the game is 75 per cent pitching'. It also attempts to give a value to a player for comparative purposes, as with Major League Equivalencies. Projection grew out of that aspect of sabermetrics, but projections are perhaps only the most interesting/useful element of a much wider array.
   10. Barnaby Jones Posted: June 22, 2009 at 01:46 PM (#3227614)
I've always considered statistics to be like a pince nez.
   11. mack Posted: June 22, 2009 at 02:14 PM (#3227661)
Wait, I always thought that statistics were exactlylike bikinis


They look best hanging from the bedpost?
   12. Obi One Kenobi Nil (BFFB) Posted: June 22, 2009 at 02:21 PM (#3227677)
Wait, I always thought that statistics were exactlylike bikinis


they shouldn't be used by the generously proportioned?
   13. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 22, 2009 at 02:25 PM (#3227681)
If statistics are bikinis, Julio Lugo is a thong.
   14. jwb Posted: June 22, 2009 at 04:14 PM (#3227812)
Statistics are not like bikinis. But you can put pictures of bikinis in the next tab over on your web browser.
   15. strummer Posted: June 22, 2009 at 04:21 PM (#3227829)
This thread is useless without spreadhsheets.
   16. Obama Bomaye Posted: June 22, 2009 at 04:26 PM (#3227838)
jwb, gas face given.

BLLLLGGHHHGGHHPPPPPPP!!!!
   17. Crashburn Alley Posted: June 22, 2009 at 09:24 PM (#3228328)
This is the guy we get to defend sabermetrics against charges of misusing statistics? Oy. ;


Nothing I said in that thread you linked to was wrong. Either way, I'm human and I err a whole hell of a lot. I'm sure you do as well. And if you're in the business of filing away everything I've said, you should really focus on my predictions because those are what will really discredit me. Last year, I predicted a Rockies-Indians World Series. I had Mike Hampton as the NL Comeback Player of the Year. Yeah.
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