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Wednesday, April 15, 2009

Beacon Journal:  Indians can’t get relief

But Pavano’s inability to hold the tie was hardly the thing that sunk Cleveland’s ship. The Royals took advantage of horrendous relief pitching by Rafael Perez and Vinnie Chulk in the eighth inning to turn a one-run game into a 9-3 rout.

Four runs in six innings has been as good as it gets for anyone in the Tribe rotation this year. The only other Cleveland starter to match Pavano was Anthony Reyes on Sunday in an 8-4 win over the Blue Jays.

‘‘Carl was a lot better tonight,’’ manager Eric Wedge said. ‘‘It was good the way he ran through the first inning and got himself some momentum. He had more on the baseball this time, and he gave us every chance to win the ballgame.’‘’

Pavano is slated to start Sunday in Yankee Stadium, I’m sure he’ll receive a warm welcome.

tribefan Posted: April 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM | 28 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   1. Not The Real Fausto Carmona (Dan Lee) Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:20 PM (#3138938)
Indians can’t get relief

Or starting pitching. Or offense. Apart from that, things are peachy!

I've been really worried about the '09 Indians for months now, and I was hoping it was just my Cleveland Fan Paranoia. It's not. Pretty much everything that worried me has happened.

I'm not calling for anyone's head, but if Eric Wedge gets canned, I'd like to hear the front office explain how he was supposed to win 90 ballgames with Carl Pavano as his third starter. Wedge ain't exactly Earl Weaver or John McGraw, but he just doesn't have a chance with the pitchers he's been given to work with.
   2. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder. Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:24 PM (#3138947)
The cheapness of the Dolans is finally coming home to roost. On the plus side it means the $25 all you can eat Party Deck tickets are easy to get.
   3. Paul The Paranoid Android Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:48 PM (#3138996)
Pavano is slated to start Sunday in Yankee Stadium, I’m sure he’ll receive a warm welcome.


Looking forward to that one. Hope the shitbag gets lit up.
   4. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:49 PM (#3139000)
I picked the Tribe to win the division and they look god awful thus far. Bad starting pitching, bad offense, after just one week I don't know why I picked them.
   5. Ball Point Pen Guy (Will Young) Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:49 PM (#3139001)
Isn't this the fifth or sixth consecutive season in which everyone picked Cleveland to win the AL Central only to watch them fall on their face (with only one playoff appearance mixed in)?

Mark Shapiro sure gets a lot of credit for a guy whose teams consistently underperform.
   6. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:52 PM (#3139007)
Isn't this the fifth or sixth consecutive season in which everyone picked Cleveland to win the AL Central only to watch them fall on their face (with only one playoff appearance mixed in)?
Indeed it is. And they're going to keep fooling me, because I never learn, by God.

(Actually, to be fair, I didn't pick them last season. Of course, I went with the Tigers so...)
   7. tribefan Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:54 PM (#3139010)
Bad starting pitching, bad offense, after just one week I don't know why I picked them.


I think the offense will be fine, Hafner and Martinez both are looking much better than last year, and I don't think there's any reason to think Sizemore won't put up similar numbers. I do hope we see LaPorta sooner than later.

The pitching on the other hand, will not be fine.
   8. Not The Real Fausto Carmona (Dan Lee) Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:55 PM (#3139017)
Mark Shapiro sure gets a lot of credit for a guy whose teams consistently underperform.

I've been thinking the same thing for several years now. He's pulled off some awesome trades, but his record is pretty underwhelming otherwise. The two best position players they've drafted and developed in the past ten years are Ryan Garko and Ben Francisco.

If you're not going to spend money and you're not going to draft anything useful, you're not going to win. Simple as that. At some point, people are going to stop trading you guys like Grady Sizemore and Travis Hafner.
   9. tribefan Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:58 PM (#3139018)
On the plus side it means the $25 all you can eat Party Deck tickets are easy to get.

Sweet. I don't think it will be too hard to get pretty much any tickets this year. Even considering the cold weather this past weekend, the crowd on Saturday seemed far smaller than I would have expected for the home opening weekend.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: April 15, 2009 at 01:58 PM (#3139019)
Mark Shapiro sure gets a lot of credit for a guy whose teams consistently underperform.


Didn't Cameron or someone else of his stature recently give the Shapiro front office an A+ and rank the organization fourth overall among big league teams in a recent article? I find the fawning equally inexplicable.
   11. Ball Point Pen Guy (Will Young) Posted: April 15, 2009 at 02:01 PM (#3139026)

I've been thinking the same thing for several years now. He's pulled off some awesome trades, but his record is pretty underwhelming otherwise. The two best position players they've drafted and developed in the past ten years are Ryan Garko and Ben Francisco.


That's, uh, not very good. I always think the Twins struggle at drafting offensive players, but in the past 10 years they've developed Mauer, Span, and Morneau (he's right on the 10-year bubble). On the other hand, the Twins supplement their inability to develop hitters by churning out pitchers like crazy (Slowey, Baker, Garza, Crain, Blackburn, Perkins).
   12. Raskolnikov Posted: April 15, 2009 at 02:02 PM (#3139028)
Um, isn't 8 games a little too early to state anything?
   13. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 15, 2009 at 02:17 PM (#3139053)
Mark Shapiro sure gets a lot of credit for a guy whose teams consistently underperform.

He's kind of the anti-Ken Williams. Everyone loves Shapiro's moves, but his teams generally underachieve, while everyone hates KW's moves, and his teams generally do better than many think they will.
   14. rfloh Posted: April 15, 2009 at 02:18 PM (#3139055)


Didn't Cameron or someone else of his stature recently give the Shapiro front office an A+ and rank the organization fourth overall among big league teams in a recent article? I find the fawning equally inexplicable.


Well Shapiro, and the Indians FO, is a favourite among certain stat head circles, "smart, young, progressive". Just like Kenny Williams used to be, and still sometimes is, considered an utter incompetent among those circles.
   15. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 15, 2009 at 02:29 PM (#3139063)
Um, isn't 8 games a little too early to state anything?

Well, I think they'll win more than the 20 games or whatever they're on pace for.

In all seriousness, the thing about the Indians is like what Dan said above - it's exactly the thing that Indians fans were worried about that's been a big problem in the early going. The pitching has been horrible thus far, just as it looked like it would be on paper.

The Tribe might well finish around .500, and that might be enough in a weak division. But those who were picking them as clear favorites seem pretty wrong.
   16. Raskolnikov Posted: April 15, 2009 at 02:41 PM (#3139080)
Well, I think they'll win more than the 20 games or whatever they're on pace for.

In all seriousness, the thing about the Indians is like what Dan said above - it's exactly the thing that Indians fans were worried about that's been a big problem in the early going. The pitching has been horrible thus far, just as it looked like it would be on paper.

The Tribe might well finish around .500, and that might be enough in a weak division. But those who were picking them as clear favorites seem pretty wrong.


But it's 8 games. Even the mid 90's Braves would have 8 game stretches where the pitching looks horrible.

I don't think one can draw any conclusions from 8 games.
   17. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 15, 2009 at 02:49 PM (#3139095)
I don't think one can draw any conclusions from 8 games.

Eight games, plus the previous track records of those pitchers.

Carmona and Lee should regress to the mean, but is anyone surprised that the rest of that rotation is bad?
   18. Raskolnikov Posted: April 15, 2009 at 02:55 PM (#3139103)
Well, if some people were predicting the Indians to be favorites in the Central, they shouldn't change their projections after 8 games. And if they predicted that the starting pitching would be deficient before the season started, then their pessimism is consistent. These 8 games shouldn't confirm either way.
   19. Not The Real Fausto Carmona (Dan Lee) Posted: April 15, 2009 at 03:30 PM (#3139154)
I was actually a little of both, Rasolnikov...I figured this was an 80-85 win team and they were definite contenders simply because there aren't any teams in the division that are all that good. 85 wins takes the division, IMO.

Right now, my gut tells me Cleveland's win total is going to be closer to 80 than 85. They absolutely could still win the division if they get hot.
   20. jmurph Posted: April 15, 2009 at 04:40 PM (#3139273)
I thought they would be mediocre-to-bad, and said so often, so they will almost certainly turn it around and win 100 games. I'm always wrong about almost everything.
   21. Stately, Plump Buck Mulligan Posted: April 15, 2009 at 04:42 PM (#3139278)
I'm always wrong about almost everything.


Maybe you should get a job with Baseball Prospectus and/or the Indians.
   22. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 15, 2009 at 04:45 PM (#3139288)
I think the offense will be fine, Hafner and Martinez both are looking much better than last year


I don't think there's any way Hafner could have looked worse than he did last year.
   23. tribefan Posted: April 15, 2009 at 04:50 PM (#3139295)
very true
   24. The Pequod Posted: April 15, 2009 at 04:57 PM (#3139316)
I've been thinking the same thing for several years now. He's pulled off some awesome trades, but his record is pretty underwhelming otherwise. The two best position players they've drafted and developed in the past ten years are Ryan Garko and Ben Francisco.

If you're not going to spend money and you're not going to draft anything useful, you're not going to win. Simple as that. At some point, people are going to stop trading you guys like Grady Sizemore and Travis Hafner.


Thank God Choo came back and started OPS+'ing 130...I was beginning to think they'd never bother filling the gaping holes in LF and RF that have been there for, like, 4 years now.

So RF seems solved, but LF is still a black hole. Too bad there weren't any legit corner outfield bats available for peanuts this offseason. Sure sucks to run Ben Francisco out there every day when the division is ours for the taking.
   25. Crispix Attacks Posted: April 15, 2009 at 05:09 PM (#3139342)
I've been thinking the same thing for several years now. He's pulled off some awesome trades, but his record is pretty underwhelming otherwise. The two best position players they've drafted and developed in the past ten years are Ryan Garko and Ben Francisco.

This is a grievous insult to John McDonald.

But seriously, Jhonny Peralta was drafted and developed by them. And by "drafted" I mean "signed". He's the only other one I can think of.
   26. The Pequod Posted: April 15, 2009 at 05:35 PM (#3139423)
But seriously, Jhonny Peralta was drafted and developed by them. And by "drafted" I mean "signed". He's the only other one I can think of.

You can also count Victor Martinez (1996) and Fausto Carmona (2000) if you're willing to count guys who came into the organization under Hart. Regardless, the point is that the Indians' drafts and international programs haven't produced much in recent years, at least as far as major leaguers go.

Guys like Hector Rondon, Kelvin de la Cruz, and Nick Weglarz look promising, but there was a period of time when it looked like Shapiro's only successful player development strategy was ripping off the Bill Bavasi and pulling off Einar Diaz/Ryan Drese for Travis Hafner type deals.
   27. Jay Levin Posted: April 16, 2009 at 12:01 AM (#3140160)
Pretty sure the Indians outperformed projections in 2004, 2005 and 2007. They also outperformed in the second halves of 2006 and 2008, and the first half of 2008 was pretty heavy act-of-God territory. But I can see how, in a casual way, it seems like his clubs often under-perform.
   28. LargeBill Posted: April 16, 2009 at 12:53 AM (#3140266)
Wedge has got to go. He can be counted on to have the team ready to play by August each year. Shame the games in April count as much as the ones in September.
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