Nah. Go 2/$38M.

You wouldn't like Manny when he's unhappy.

3/70

You wouldn't like Manny when he's unhappy.


I'd love to have Unhappy Manny back on my team.

I'd love to have Unhappy Manny back on my team.

No, you wouldn't. When the entire team says "ixnay on the annymay", you know you have a head case on your hands. The Dodgers know that going into this deal. Stick to the original offer. Screw Boras!

No, you wouldn't. When the entire team says "ixnay on the annymay", you know you have a head case on your hands. The Dodgers know that going into this deal. Stick to the original offer. Screw Boras!

I would love to have Manny back on the Red Sox, even in the state of mind that he was in on July 30, 2008. There's absolutely no question in my mind that this is a fact.

It's a fact that you would like him back? I can't disagree with that at all! :)

I would love to have Manny back on the Red Sox, even in the state of mind that he was in on July 30, 2008. There's absolutely no question in my mind that this is a fact.

I wanted to see the face of every Red Sox fan who wanted Manny gone (and, incidentally, loved Teixeira until he became a Yankee) when Jason Bay came up in a do-or-die situation in the playoffs looking like a scared puppy. This would have been ideal vs. the Yankees. Unfortunately, I don't always get what I want.

if manny was good for two years, the deal would have been done a long time ago. i tell you they are wrestling over the third year and the option.
plaschke is a much too generous person. every time he opens his mouth he gives away his ignorance. reading this tripe demonstrates why he is where he is and ned colletti is where he is. think about that, would you rather be making what plaschke is making or what colletti is making?

think about that, would you rather be making what plaschke is making or what colletti is making?

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

well, its tenuous logic predicated mostly on emotion, i'll admit. i'm mostly making a broad assumption that if plaschke knew enough about baseball as a business and had more than a hamster's intelligence about evaluating players with a mind towards signing them to a contract, he would not be a mere sportswriter -- and really, with rare exceptions, what do they contribute anymore to the dialogue but tired prose, idiotic speculation and twisted logic, or are any of us getting anything useful from reading about different bbwaa writers' ballots? -- but an actual executive with something to contribute to running a franchise, and would be getting compensated accordingly. my experience of daily newspaper sportswriters (i've worked at daily newspapers before) is that they are basically ignorant slobs who know how to get a story and not much else, who develop a resentment of athletes and a distressing habit of sucking up to ownership to gain access. math averse, therefore unable/unwilling to actually think critically about statistics more meaningful that rbi/avg. hidebound. plaschke encapsulates that perfectly. simers at least is entertaining.

Well, yeah, but they know how to use capital letters, pal!

:)

speed, baby, speed!

If manny was good for two years, the deal would have been done a long time ago. i tell you they are wrestling over the third year and the option.

Look, we all understand perfectly well that Manny and Boras don't want to settle for two years. The gulf between the Dodgers offer and his demands is huge. The question is who will end up caving. You may well be correct that he will end up getting a third year, but it's not at all clear that he's going to get it.

The real story here isn't that they're having a drawn out negotiation, the story is that the leaguewide interest in acquiring one of the undisputed best hitters in the game is somewhere between tepid and nonexistent. He has yet to receive a legitimate offer from anyone else that exceeds what the Dodgers offered more than two months ago.

The real story here isn't that they're having a drawn out negotiation, the story is that the leaguewide interest in acquiring one of the undisputed best hitters in the game is somewhere between tepid and nonexistent. He has yet to receive a legitimate offer from anyone else that exceeds what the Dodgers offered more than two months ago.

Collusion!

My WAG about Manny is that, with the Sawx and Yankees not involved, Boras way over shot the market. Once he did that, it's very hard to go back to teams with more reasonable demands because then they can smell desperation--real or perceived doesn't matter. There just aren't enough bidders for a frenzy and, more importantly, the RIGHT bidders aren't involved. Add into that the excuse of the economy--a real excuse, but one I think MLB teams are milking for all it's worth--and gettng the 4/100 Boras is shooting for is going to be a hell of a challenge. I don't say impossible as Boras, whatever you may think of him, knows his job and nothing he manages will surprise me. On the other hand, he's not a Svengali either, and he's effed up before, too.

Look, we all understand perfectly well that Manny and Boras don't want to settle for two years. ... The question is who will end up caving. You may well be correct that he will end up getting a third year, but it's not at all clear that he's going to get it.

funny how plaschke doesn't get it, which is my point. he's a dolt. and my comments are just those of a basement-dwelling fanboy. yet, i'm as close to being right as this vaunted knight of the keyboard.

i know you're convinced manny isn't getting interest because of some personality thing, but i'll have to disagree. the more we hear about how nobody wants him in their clubhouse -- this from players talking to ... sportswriters, what a surprise -- the less i'm inclined to take it seriously. funny how that went away when he got to L.A. and started hitting. i believe it's more about how manny's managed to price himself out of the market by listening to boras. he's put himself in an awkward position. boras will do what he can to mitigate that, which is why the third year looks like the most likely resolution.

i know you're convinced manny isn't getting interest because of some personality thing, but i'll have to disagree.

Well, if someone else has alternative theories that make sense, I'm more than willing to listen. I know that some people say "defense", but I honestly find that a bit hard to swallow. This site was in the vanguard all last year of shilling for teams to sign You-Know-Who, who is several years older than Manny and obviously far more prone to an injury.

Seems to me that a team like the Mets could certainly use Manny's bat out in left field, yet they're not interested in so much as even talking to him.

This site was in the vanguard all last year of shilling for teams to sign You-Know-Who, who is several years older than Manny and obviously far more prone to an injury.

That guy would have been available for much less money and much less of a commitment. My theory is above. I think it's a work of art, personally.

I wanted to see the face of every Red Sox fan who wanted Manny gone (and, incidentally, loved Teixeira until he became a Yankee) when Jason Bay came up in a do-or-die situation in the playoffs looking like a scared puppy.

.341/.471/.634

More scared puppies, please.

More scared puppies, please.

Beat me to it.

agreed, its odd that the mets aren't involved and on the face of it adds credence to your observations. the angels begging off sounds fishy too, especially comments from certain quarters about how manny would not be a good fit with scioscia.

maybe we are both right? most teams just can't afford him at the asking price though they'd gladly take him. four can: NYY, NYM, LAA and LAD. NYY went with texeira and sabathia so pretty much not an option. i can see making a case that there are clubhouse issues for NYM and LAA, esp. LAA. but i haven't heard word one about that being the case in NYM, though i could have missed some story somewhere. so manny is left with LAD. lucky for him they do want him.

Any idiot can get 14 hits, 3 home runs and 9 walks in 11 postseason games. Bay should be ashamed of himself. Leading the team in home runs, hits, RBIs, and walks, what a pansy.

Yet the smallest hint that Matt Holliday could be had, and it sets Red Sox fans hearts aflutter.

Any idiot can get 14 hits, 3 home runs and 9 walks in 11 postseason games. Bay should be ashamed of himself. Leading the team in home runs, hits, RBIs, walks, what a pansy.

Seriously. One can criticize the act of getting rid of Manny all day, but Jason Bay is very good. And will make 7.5 million this year. That is an exceptional bargain.

I don't say impossible as Boras, whatever you may think of him, knows his job and nothing he manages will surprise me. On the other hand, he's not a Svengali either, and he's effed up before, too.

I just can't think of an example of Boras mis-playing the market. Shooty, are you thinking of a specific player/contract? There was that time that Maddux ended up taking arb, but he ended up make a quite a bit more money in the subsequent years. I feel like every year it feels like it is going to happened but then Boras gets the big money in the end. It might just be a perfect storm this season- too many similar players, terrible economy, big money teams with different needs- but I'll believe it when it happens.

I wanted to see the face of every Red Sox fan who wanted Manny gone (and, incidentally, loved Teixeira until he became a Yankee) when Jason Bay came up in a do-or-die situation in the playoffs looking like a scared puppy. This would have been ideal vs. the Yankees. Unfortunately, I don't always get what I want.

You wanted Bay to look like a scared puppy? That's understandable, assuming you're not a Sox fan.

Or you wanted Bay to come up because he already looked like a scared puppy? Would that David Ortiz (or anyone else on the Sox) looked more like Bay in 2008...

Jason Bay, 2008, late and close, regular season: .317 AVG, .446 OBP, .622 SLG
Jason Bay, 2008, postseason: .341 AVG, .471 OBP, .634 SLG

And while I'm thinking of it (and whether you were saying this or not, I'm going to jump off on this tangent), this whole (recent) "Manny is a clutch god" idea is overstated...

Ramirez, career, late and close: .276 AVG, .410 OBP, .491 SLG --> 83 tOPS+

By comparison,

Drew, career, late and close: .243 AVG, .375 OBP, .428 SLG --> 81 tOPS+
Youkilis, career, late and close: .263 AVG, .378 OBP, .436 SLG --> 91 tOPS+
Lugo, career, late and close: .252 AVG, .334 OBP, .356 SLG --> 91 tOPS+
Crisp, career, late and close: .260 AVG, .330 OBP, .376 SLG --> 92 tOPS+
Lowell, career, late and close: .269 AVG, .340 OBP, .442 SLG --> 94 tOPS+
Varitek, career, late and close: .262 AVG, .338 OBP, .439 SLG --> 98 OPS+
Ortiz, career, late and close: .279 AVG, .382 OBP, .564 SLG --> 102 tOPS+
Pedroia, career, late and close: .328 AVG, .376 OBP, .471 SLG --> 104 tOPS+

...though such comparisons would be incomplete without the following...

Bay, career, late and close: .232 AVG, .351 OBP, .438 SLG --> 78 tOPS+

Ramirez has never been someone who has hit especially better in late and close situations. He has hit about as well in the postseason as he has in the regular season (actually a little worse, but adjusting for the scoring environment may explain that). He has had good postseason series and bad ones. Everyone would rather have the average Manny Ramirez at bat in a tough situation over just about anyone not named Pujols or Bonds, sure, but that's because Ramirez has been about as good a hitter (or better) than most everyone else, not because Manny Ramirez has some sort of wicked postseason clutch mojo (that he lacked as recently as the 2007 World Series).

"This site was in the vanguard all last year of shilling for teams to sign You-Know-Who, who is several years older than Manny and obviously far more prone to an injury."

But also a significantly better hitter. And a better fielder when healthy, per UZR.

And you can buy a lot of youth baseball fields for the difference between Manny's $20M and Voldemort's minimum wage.

Shooty, are you thinking of a specific player/contract?

Hmm. Good question. I had the #1 draft pick who held out and then ended up with bascially nothing foremost in my mind, but that doesn't apply to MLB free agency, really. There must be someone on the MLB level he screwed over, no? If not, this offseason may be his Waterloo. Still, not a bad track record for him.

Hmm. Good question. I had the #1 draft pick who held out and then ended up with bascially nothing foremost in my mind, but that doesn't apply to MLB free agency, really. There must be someone on the MLB level he screwed over, no? If not, this offseason may be his Waterloo. Still, not a bad track record for him.

Andruw Jones' deal didn't exactly go well for Boras at the time, as he "settled" for 2/$36M, rather than the 143/$95740B he was talking about coming into free agency. Of course, that 2/$36 now looks like a coup for Boras.

Andruw Jones' deal didn't exactly go well for Boras at the time, as he "settled" for 2/$36M, rather than the 143/$95740B he was talking about coming into free agency. Of course, that 2/$36 now looks like a coup for Boras.

You know, it really seems as if the industry is starting to value young, cost-controlled players much more than they used to. Teams are loathe to give up draft picks and trading veteran players doesn't bring back the return it used to. The perceived "certainty" you get from established MLB regulars just doesn't seem as highly valued as it used to be (uber-stars excluded). Or am I looking too deeply into this?

"This site was in the vanguard all last year of shilling for teams to sign You-Know-Who, who is several years older than Manny and obviously far more prone to an injury."

And you can buy a lot of youth baseball fields for the difference between Manny's $20M and Voldemort's minimum wage.

That's funny. I've been using He Who Shall Not Be Named whenever the subject of K** G****** J***** comes up @ USSM.

The perceived "certainty" you get from established MLB regulars just doesn't seem as highly valued as it used to be (uber-stars excluded). Or am I looking too deeply into this?

I've certainly noticed this the last few seasons, and a lot of other people have mentioned this too.

You know, it really seems as if the industry is starting to value young, cost-controlled players much more than they used to.

Well, given the spiking costs associated with free agents, that's not exactly surprising. Rather than the 10:1 cost difference between a premier free agent and a premier cost controlled player (lets say less than 3 years experience, non-arb eligible) that used to exist, that difference is now floating up towards the range of 30:1 or 40:1. With differences being that big, teams are much happier to keep the cheap.

The perceived "certainty" you get from established MLB regulars just doesn't seem as highly valued as it used to be (uber-stars excluded). Or am I looking too deeply into this?

Not even in trades are guys like Johan Santana or Jake Peavy would command gets you the same quality of players one should.